clinging on to false hope n promises :(
Offline I'm taking an online environmental bio class and we've been having very heated discussions. Thankfully, my professor is an enlightened atheist and retorts back at the creationists that talk a lot of nonsense...anyway, the discussions are about to end and everyone's posting their final thoughts. I was saddened by what a girl posted:
"I would have to say that Science is right that the earth is 4 plus billion years old. It has been proven with evidence. For some of us God is only a faith. I understand that we are not made from clay and dust, and that the first woman was not made from a rib, God didn't make us. We're apes, but I don't think that it's ignorance what makes me want to have this faith. A faith that is inexplicable. I know that science is right, but there's something inside of me that wants to have this faith in this creator, God. Science has proven my faith wrong, I know that, but I want to hold on to my faith in God because it helps me and comforts me."
She sees that her faith is wrong, and still chooses to cling to this god. I can't understand 
...so yeah.
PS: there was this really crazy fundie young earth creationist trolling around the place. The prof and I shut her up with our rational and scientific "comebacks" lol...She STILL said evolution doesn't make any sense...riiiight because an infinite deity creating everything is sooo much more simpler. *rolls eyes* That girl is so fucked up in the head 
anyhoo, what do ya'll think?
"How come when its us it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette...?"-George Carlin
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Years ago, I took an ecology and evolutionary biology class. It was fascinating and before the internet took off - so class was in an auditorium. We didn't see the fundy types until the evolutionary portion. When we entered the auditorium, there was often stacks of handouts for us to pick up before seating. This day there were some people handing out stuff. Didn't think, just took it. Sat down, looked, and it was fundy stuff. The professor came in after I did, and he too, took one of the handouts. He read it as he headed down to the podium, slammed his stuff down, turned around, and went back up - shouting "OUT! GET OUT!! TAKE YOUR TRASH AND GET OUT!!!!" One of the guys was trying to tell him that he had a right to hand out stuff, and the professor just yelled over the top of him. The guy gave up and left. The professor turned around, walked back down to the front, picked up his notes and calmly gave his lecture.
The professor was black haired, pale skinned, skinny and about 6'2. Looked a little how I always imagined Rasputin would have looked. Scary.
That was 20+ years ago. It is worse now. I don't know why. There are more people who insist on believing in their invisible friend. And they are louder, more insistent, and stupider now. Used to be, people would say I believe because the bible says so. Now you are more often to hear stupid stuff about the 2LOT, and information theory and bunches of other science they clearly don't understand.
But then, there was an article the other day about how young christians are leaving the church in droves, and I begin to feel more hopeful.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
I think she was brainwashed at a young age and often. It's sad, hopefully she will play a role in breaking the cycle.
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The person who wrote the original quote still has some hope... i think most of us went through that stage... I know that was more like my world view in my college years....
The crazy Fundie is typical of people who not only dont understand science (not my strongest subject either)... But who are too stuborn to admit their own limitations... because *THEY* don't fully understand it, it must not be true....She probably just needs to get laid.
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Welcome to the forum.
I'm actually pretty excited that she wrote this. I assume that she was fully theist before the class started? If she can think clearly enough to recognize that her religion is incorrect, and she simply wants to believe in God, then I think, in most cases, it's only a matter of time before she finishes the transition and becomes non-religious and open-minded. It helps a lot if someone she trusts can help her with the transition. It also helps if other theists give her stupid answers when she started expressing honest skepticism, lol.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
It makes perfect sense, and she clearly indicates that faith comforts her. What else do you need to understand her logic?
When my car does not want to start, I sometimes say "Dear God, please please help me to start my car..." This comforts me. When I have a hangover in the morning after a bottle of vodka, I spend my morning in the bathroom repeating "Oh God, I will not drink so much again, please make my hangover quick and easy" and this comforts me.
If you like to paint your hair in unnatural colors like on your avatar, you know there is no any logic in doing so ... well unless you are going to perform on stage or attract a gang of similarly colored tasteless males.
And yes, religion is NOT equal to faith.
Bottom line: I am in a bad mood...
Well in some ways, I can relate to the notion of WANTING and WISHING to believe.
I know that after I rejected the childhood faith that I was so strictly brought up in, I spent a long time looking. I wanted very badly for some sort of external proof that SOMETHING existed outside of us. I wanted some sort of proof that SOME sort of spiritual world existed and if I looked hard enough, I could find it.
Well, I wasted quite a bit of time doing that.
I encountered everything from self-appointed Buddhist guru frauds, to New Age Wiccan "self-proclaimed" priestesses that claimed they had a thousand year old tradition, to occultists, to self-help spiritual scam artists with phony books, to people that claimed to be "spiritual and not religious" and spent all of their time burning incense and sending up chants to the universe and everything in between.
I found NOTHING. Absolutely nothing of any true relevance in any of it. At the bottom of it all, I just found a bunch of people that were wishfully looking for some sort of sign. At the bottom of it all, I found a bunch of people that were hoping like hell that they had found all these answers to life, and in their desire to find these answers they were choosing make believe.
It is really seems to be a sad way to exist. It also seems to paint an exceedingly depressing picture that humanity is lost without some type of spiritual make-believe or some force.
It was much easier to reject all of that nonsense and start looking down the paths of science, reason and logic. No, I am not well versed in all of the particulars of science, but at least, I have yet to come across a scientist that is willing to teach you "ALL OF THE SECRETS OF LIFE" for five easy payments of 19.95.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Give her some time, it might even take years. I know that I had doubts that didn't really take hold until my early 20, but I still clung to "something" because I didn't want to take the chance I was wrong. This is just a lingering effect of the society that has kept telling her that a god exists. It is hard for people to give up their superstitions they grow up with. The good thing is that the doubt is there and that admission is a potential door opening for her. But at a minimum, she won't be a thumping theocrat out to beat people into submission.
As for the other fundie you dealt with, good for you. I am tired of people thinking that they have the right to make claims without you responding to those claims.
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Yeah, she's like a lot of the people down here in deep south Texas...I can't stand it lol (though I've found other atheists at school, much to my surprise). My professor responded to her post and said that he knows a seed has been planted there and that she shouldn't try to fight it, that THAT'S what propels us forward: new knowledge, not persisting in dogmatic beliefs.
The other girl, the staunch creationist, was fighting so hard against what the class had to teach us, but a seed of scientific truth has also been planted...let us hope she breaks away.
"How come when its us it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette...?"-George Carlin
*sniff* I don't even know if my feelings should be hurt by what you said about my hair
n yeah I know there wasn't any logic in coloring it that way. No, I wasn't gonna perform on stage or trying to attract males or females lol but colored it because I wanted to try it before I got too old to do it. I actually loved it!
...but yeah, I understand if her belief in a god comforts and helps her, but I don't like that this prevents some theists from accepting scientific facts. I'm glad that at least she wasn't proselytizing like the other girl was. Now that girl was crazy lol
"How come when its us it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette...?"-George Carlin
Thanks! I love the forums :D
Yeah, I do think she'll break away eventually. I hope she saw how irrational her side was when other theists posted stuff. They brought nothing insightful or worthy to the conversation, especially on the topic of evolution. Even when presented with all the types of evidence, they blatantly brushed it aside and continued to spew their nonsense while the prof and others talked about the subject more coherently lol.
When she posted questions, yep, the theists gave ignorant and unhelpful answers. I bet you that made her think about her position a lil harder.
"How come when its us it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette...?"-George Carlin
Hi there!
I totally understand how it's hard for some people to take the plunge and let go of their beliefs. As you said, they've grown up with them. I also had this dilemma when I went from theist to agnostic, then finally to atheist. It was a VERY confusing and difficult time for me, full of fear and doubt. What if I'm making the wrong choice? What if I die and I find out I'm going to burn for eternity? n blah blah blah...as a doubtful theist, these questions were valid and important...and also dangerous to the faith to ask. Sorry, I'm going off on me, but yeah, I really think she'll eventually come to leave her faith...and it might take years. I only took one year...a very tumultuous year lol.
Hell yeah! I definitely responded to the theists' ignorant claims and assertions...they pissed me off.
"How come when its us it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette...?"-George Carlin
Wow. Thanks for sharing your story! I understand that phase where we're "looking for something" ...and it yields no results
Oh, how I would love for a loving, benevolent father figure deity to exist. It would be great if this fantasy were true, but alas, it is not. A lot of people waste their time searching high and low for what I'm talking about and answers to some of life's mysteries, and yeah like you showed, there are people out there (just as lost) that are willing to take advantage.
It is easier to reject the nonsense. Let us bask in the warm glow of rationality, truth and science lol
"How come when its us it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette...?"-George Carlin
Oh yes, there is hope for her...
I also went through that stage, but back in high school.
Yeah, the hardcore creationist girl was always on the attack, even spitting back at the professor when he tried to show her the evidence for evolution and when we were discussing Pangea and she came out to tell us that Pangea is a lie because "we know that GOD sent the Flood and told Noah to build the ark. Come on people read the Bible! Don't be so ignorant! the LORD tells us very clearly what happened 4000 years ago! Earth is not billions of years old (wheres the proof?), that's ignorant because the LORD tells us what really happened. Don't let this ignorant professor sway your faith with his unproven science crap! Evolution, the continental drift, the dinosaurs, fossils, it's all the work of the devil to test our faith. There are no such things! Repent and trust in our LORD JESUS CHRIST!" ...end quote. You see??? That's what I had to deal with on a daily basis, and there's more where that came from.
She's so deluded, seemingly so far gone that no amount of scientific evidence will make her see otherwise. She lashed out even more towards the end, as more and more evidence was shown. She was fighting it so hard. I understand why, but I wonder-is there no hope for people like this? They're so difficult to deal with
"How come when its us it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette...?"-George Carlin
LOL I'm so glad your professor told them to leave. Enough with this unwarranted respect towards religious people (Richard Dawkins talked about this in "The God Delusion" lol)
I'm seeing two trends also. Islam is the fastest growing religion ok, but at the same time the percentage of atheists is rising every year...that also gives me hope.
"How come when its us it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette...?"-George Carlin