Atheists and Christmas

ManuAndres44
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Atheists and Christmas

Greetings to all the Rational Response Squad.

 

I would like to know your opinion about which should be the attitude of the atheists toward the Christmas. Should the atheists give to it another meaning as sharing with family? I will wait for your comments. Thanks.

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I like when people write it

I like when people write it χ-mas. Little do they know that it's not an 'x', but the greek letter χ(chi)

Since in my field I encounter the χ^2 test a lot, I don't celebrate Christmas, just χmas, the holiday where we remember the importance of statistical analysis.

Also, it's a good occasion for the family to gather so I'm cool with that too. 

 


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 New Year rules, Christmas

 New Year rules, Christmas sucks.

In Russia and in Europe, the emphasis is on the New Year. 

That said, I always support paid holidays whatever they are.

 

 


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Alexicov wrote:I like when

Alexicov wrote:

I like when people write it χ-mas. Little do they know that it's not an 'x', but the greek letter χ(chi)

Since in my field I encounter the χ^2 test a lot, I don't celebrate Christmas, just χmas, the holiday where we remember the importance of statistical analysis.

Also, it's a good occasion for the family to gather so I'm cool with that too. 

 

Love it!!  Do you have little shiny Greek letters to hang on the tree made of origami shaped graph paper?  Wreaths made of skewed normal curves?  Presents correlated to their recipient?  Or is it a truly random sampling?  2 way factorial holiday (Advent) calendars?

 

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 Well, I don't see why the

 

Well, I don't see why the theists should get all the fun. This next holiday is about people getting together for some good food and good times.

 

Past that, those of us who know the history of the holiday know just how recently the theists even got involved in the matter. Sure, the latest crop of fundies has been going around for the past few years saying “Jesus in the reason for the season”. Well, I suppose that I should be happy that they can rhyme. However, as an assertion, it is utter bull crap.

 

From CE 300 or so up to about CE 1830 or so, it was not even a holiday that theists paid any attention to. Pretty much as Christianity came to dominate the Roman empire, the Mithracists simply adapted and reassigned 12/25 (the birth date of the previous savior) to the new kid on the block. Honestly, it was not all that important then or later. For the most part, it was an excuse to get drunk.

 

Once the industrial revolution got going, there was an unintentional effort put out to encourage people to spend money buying stuff during the colder months when people would otherwise tend to stay indoors. Over time, it grew to silly proportions. Thus was Christmas commercialism born.

 

Really, the roots of a Christian religious deal really only become popular in the past several decades. To a large extent, it was part of the same effort that put god on money and in the pledge of allegiance. Even then, the effort did not amount to all that much initially. Growth of the general idea has been steady over the years but it did not become the “OMG! They are declaring a war on Christmas” until just the past ten years or so ago.

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Welcome to the

Welcome to the forum.

ManuAndres44 wrote:
I would like to know your opinion about which should be the attitude of the atheists toward the Christmas. Should the atheists give to it another meaning as sharing with family? I will wait for your comments. Thanks.

We should definitely celebrate it, or at least, I prefer celebrating. Of course, once you realize that all holidays are just based on the fact that it takes about 365 days for a rock to orbit around another another rock that's on fire (colloquial definition of rock, of course), you'll also realize that they're all arbitrary. But, I think almost any excuse to eat good food, spend time with loved ones, and give more to charity is an acceptable excuse. So, party on.

And, if you think about it, it's really not that much of a Christian holiday, is it?

First, it's a consumerism holiday. Second, it's a pagan holiday, with pagan trees, pagan colors, and a pagan fat guy. Third, it's a holiday about being generous and loving. Then, maybe fourth, it's a Christian holiday.

     

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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My wife and I celebrate

My wife and I celebrate Christmas Bigtime.... We don't need much of an excuse to party... so we go to, and host parties all month.... and we take the "Eat, drink and be merry....and drink some more" approach.... we also love giving gifts.... we have a 12' Tree in our living room, and jane makes this place look like a winter wonderland... even though we always have food and booze on hand... at this time of year it's even moreso....so people are always dropping over...

 

it's a Santa thing....


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I'm going to have to agree

I'm going to have to agree with most of the posters here. I don't celebrate christmas for the whole religous aspect. I just think its a good time to get with family, exchange some gifts, and be merry during what would otherwise be a cold and miserable month.

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From Guyana SA

 

 

 

                I am here for my wife and her sisters annual christmas charity held in their hometown of Cummings Lodge Guyana. I get to play Santa Claus in full regalia, in 85 degree heat, I still like doing it. We hold the party in the court yard of my house, which is actually in the village of Turkeyen. There is about 120 kids [poor or orphans] who get invited every year, and they all get a picture sitting on Santas knee. 

 

 

                 Did I mention the 85 degree heat; I last about 40 minutes [about half the kids] then Santa has to stagger to his airconditioned bedroom, peel off the outfit and down a gallon of water. In about 20 minutes I'm ready for round 2, All  the kids get a photo and a big hug from Santa. I never sweeted that much when I worked in a tire factory for 32 years On the rare occassions when  Toronto hit 85 I wasn't dressed as Santa.

 

 

                The charity is co-ordinated through the local Mandir and the Mosque council, the local imam doesn't approve but he doesn't try to hinder any muslims who take part. Thats right the children and the organizers are mostly Hindus with a huge slice of muslims and maybe even a few christians thrown in for good measure. This christmas event has nothing to do with religion least of all christianity.

 

 

                Come to think of it the christian version of christmas doesn't have anything to do with christianity eather.  Unless of course reindeer, and snow,and tinsel and elves, yule tidings and pine trees were in Bethlaham in the first century; soehow the anciet writers missed that.

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Jeffrick wrote:Did I mention

Jeffrick wrote:

Did I mention the 85 degree heat; I last about 40 minutes [about half the kids] then Santa has to stagger to his airconditioned bedroom, peel off the outfit and down a gallon of water. In about 20 minutes I'm ready for round 2, All  the kids get a photo and a big hug from Santa. I never sweeted that much when I worked in a tire factory for 32 years On the rare occassions when  Toronto hit 85 I wasn't dressed as Santa.

 

Hehe its summer in Australia, I dressed up as santa once during the season and got mauled by children. It was my own carelessness getting caught in the open, they got a surround on me.

I think Christmas is a time for family and togetherness, strengthening family bonds. Not consumerism ( not that consumerism isn't a good thing in context). However I've always resented Christmas for personal reasons.

It would be very nice if it were to become a secular holiday that was not an excuse for fundie propaganda peddling. At least to children.

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I like spending time with my

I like spending time with my mom and friends around holidays, but over the ears the day(any day) has become less important that the actual time I spend with someone.

My mom went to Ohio State so last year we watched them in the Rose Bowl on tv. That meant a lot to her, even though I am not much of a College fan. That was more special to me than Christmas but I do spend that day with my mom, merely because she is into it and I love making her smile.

I used to be a huge fan of the 4th of July, but in my later years I have come to hate the crowds and traffic getting out of those events.

My mom's birthday is the most important day to me.

It is not the day to me but the quality time. You can celebrate anything and it doesn't have to be on that exact day. Being with family and friends is what makes it special, not a arbitrary 24 hour period.

Christmas is merely a rehashed version of the polytheistic winter solstice celebrations. Winter celebrations were a way of coping through the cold and harsher living conditions and a way of celebrating the rebirth of coming spring.

I hate Christmas because it is nothing more than a corporate marketing tool to get people to buy crap they don't need. I hate it because they start selling it months in advance. You never see Jews advertise their holidays months in advance.

I only enjoy Christmas in the sense of getting to spend time with my mom and friends, nothing more.

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Yup

 

Christmas is actually Saturnalia - a celebration the godly stole from pagans of the Roman Empire - they never could break the people from celebrating with booze and gluttony. The Saturnalia celebrations included weird shit like human sacrifice so it may not be such a bad thing it's in the past. The Puritans where so dubious about christmas they banned it.

Agree with everyone - hang out with friends and family and have a good time. Try to ignore the birth of the latest episode of the great farce.

 

 

 

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 Christmas is my favorite

 Christmas is my favorite holiday of the year. I especially love commercializing it and purchasing as many extravagant gifts as I can afford, secure in the knowledge that true fundys are really pissed off that I would rather give my money to a greedy capitalist pig than go to church. So I get to piss off fundys and socialists on the same day. Life doesn't get better than that. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Christmas is my favorite holiday of the year. I especially love commercializing it and purchasing as many extravagant gifts as I can afford, secure in the knowledge that true fundys are really pissed off that I would rather give my money to a greedy capitalist pig than go to church. So I get to piss off fundys and socialists on the same day. Life doesn't get better than that. 

 

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Thanks for your posts

Thank you very much for sharing your opinions with me. As I was considering, no matter the consumerism, the gifts or the religious views that the rest of the people could have, the true is we should share time with our family and friends. Because to have this human bonds is more important than the rest of things you can purchase at a department store. It is impossible to buy family, friends and love after all. So, let's have a different meaning for the x-mas!

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Spiegel wrote:Jeffrick

Spiegel wrote:

Jeffrick wrote:

Did I mention the 85 degree heat; I last about 40 minutes [about half the kids] then Santa has to stagger to his airconditioned bedroom, peel off the outfit and down a gallon of water. In about 20 minutes I'm ready for round 2, All  the kids get a photo and a big hug from Santa. I never sweeted that much when I worked in a tire factory for 32 years On the rare occassions when  Toronto hit 85 I wasn't dressed as Santa.

Hehe its summer in Australia, I dressed up as santa once during the season and got mauled by children. It was my own carelessness getting caught in the open, they got a surround on me.

I think Christmas is a time for family and togetherness, strengthening family bonds. Not consumerism ( not that consumerism isn't a good thing in context). However I've always resented Christmas for personal reasons.

It would be very nice if it were to become a secular holiday that was not an excuse for fundie propaganda peddling. At least to children.

Hey where are you? It certainly gets hot here in Brisbane. 85F is about our official average maximum over Dec-Jan. It has got as high as 104-105F. Can get a bit hotter where I live in the western suburbs , further from the coast.

I like to emphasize the Solstice as the original "reason for the season". Xians "stole" it.

The pagan versions of the December holiday are what makes most sense, an excuse for getting together with family and friends, celebrate the passage of another year, exchange gifts, etc.

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ManuAndres44 wrote: Because

ManuAndres44 wrote:

 Because to have this human bonds is more important than the rest of things you can purchase at a department store. It is impossible to buy family, friends and love after all. So, let's have a different meaning for the x-mas!

That totally depends upon the human with whom you are bonding. There are some members of my family who are not even worth a $20 gift card from Walmart and others that I would give up everything for. And it is extremely easy to buy friends, some of them might even become good friends and some might even come to love you (and/or you love them).

 

As for all the regular attacks on the evils of consumerism that come every Xmas let me say this. It should be a hell of a lot of fun buying and giving presents. If you don't have fun giving someone a present you probably don't like them as much as you pretend. So why are you pretending? If you don't like someone and you don't want to get them a present, don't. I never understood why people feel obligated to buy a present for people in their family simply because they are family so they buy some crap that they know is going to be returned to the store or lost in a closet. Buy well thought out presents for those you truly care for and screw the rest of them regardless of the happenstance of relations.

 

If you don't like your family, don't spend Christmas with them. I hear Rich is having a nice party. If you arrive prepared with high quality booze and/or beer he will probably even let you in the door. (And you say friendship can't be bought)

 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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I don't celebrate Christmas

I don't celebrate Christmas as such, but an outsider looking in would get the impression that I did. I enjoy cooking large elaborate meals, and holidays give me the time off to do so. I am also misanthropic and antisocial, so I don't have many friends or family over for these events. The dogs wind up reaping most of the reward for my hours spent in the kitchen.  My often sadistic sense of humor compels me to use Christmas to make donations to causes I consider worthy in the name of people that I know to disagree with those causes. Like a $100 donation to GLAAD from Fred Phelps, 3701 West 12th Street, Topeka, KS 66604. These groups are very consistent in sending cards thanking you for your donation, which is a sort of double feel good award for me.

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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Christmas is my favorite holiday of the year. I especially love commercializing it and purchasing as many extravagant gifts as I can afford, secure in the knowledge that true fundys are really pissed off that I would rather give my money to a greedy capitalist pig than go to church. So I get to piss off fundys and socialists on the same day. Life doesn't get better than that. 

So you like funding China's economy at the expense of shipping jobs out of America? You want us to have the same pay gap as India and China have between their rich and poor  to compete? I'd say rather than use the word "true" conservative, a "better" conservative is one who doesn't waste money on crap they don't need.

I love pissing off fundies as much as you, but get pissed at people who bitch about speed limits as if they are anti-car.

Our economy isn't for the betterment of the most, the right wing in this country want "every man for themselves" with no rules.

I am for the open market and would not want a Stalin run government. But what you seem to miss is that just because our system of government is different than dictatorships, doesn't mean that it cannot exploit and end up with the same monopoly of power and centralized wealth.

I too would rather give my money to a private business than a church. But I do not want to give my money to slash and burn anarchists like the banks, car companies and insurance companies and drug companies who caused the fucking mess we are in today.

It cannot be all about profits. If you want no rules, Nigeria is as crooked as they come because they have no rules and power to the few.

You are confusing system of government which doesn't change that monopolies can arise in ANY system. And in America, right now, we have an exploding pay gap fueled by the political funding of the top 2%

I love America too, in that I am not forced to pray to a zombie god on December 25th. I love the fact that I can go to a  bar on Sunday and or buy beer and bring it home on Sunday, and watch the NFL on Sunday knowing that the money I spent on that beer did not go to a church.

It is not either or for me. The thing that bothers me is that the right wing says "fuck you" if you cant pay when it comes to health care. If we want to go that route, why not say, "If you are too poor to pay police or firement" FUCK YOU.

So if these top earners would be introspective, they would be far better off. Because if they continue to lead with greed and ignore the other classes, the very socialism none of us want, would be a natural reaction to their hording.

If money equals power, then you might as well believe in a god, because those who have are the only ones who are right.

I know this was about Christmas, but you touched a nerve with me. It bothers me that when people claim false  persecution when they have way more than they need. Wealth is not my problem, jadedness is.

All classes are needed in a healthy economy. And just like the temp in a tropical fish tank, the pay gap cannot be so lopsided as to screw the lower paid over.

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Brian37 wrote:So you like

Brian37 wrote:

So you like funding China's economy at the expense of shipping jobs out of America? You want us to have the same pay gap as India and China have between their rich and poor  to compete? I'd say rather than use the word "true" conservative, a "better" conservative is one who doesn't waste money on crap they don't need.

Most of what I will be buying for Christmas won't be from China. But it will be very nice and I'm certain you would believe it is overpriced. All Americans waste money on crap they don't need, including you (you have a computer and internet access, both pieces of crap you could live just fine without). I buy whatever is cheapest for things I need. The only things I really waste money on for myself is fine booze, cigars and hunting trips. Otherwise, I live well below my income. A concept most Americans don't seem to understand. 

For Christmas I don't let little things like money prevent me from getting high quality. Christmas isn't about wasting money on crap YOU don't need. It is wasting money on nicer stuff other people would never buy for themselves. Giving is much more fun than receiving.  

 

Brian37 wrote:

I love pissing off fundies as much as you, but get pissed at people who bitch about speed limits as if they are anti-car.

Speed limits? Who is bitching about speed limits? Admit it, you get pissed at everyone. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Our economy isn't for the betterment of the most, the right wing in this country want "every man for themselves" with no rules.

You're right, it is for the betterment of me and that is what really matters. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

I too would rather give my money to a private business than a church. But I do not want to give my money to slash and burn anarchists like the banks, car companies and insurance companies and drug companies who caused the fucking mess we are in today.

Then don't. I'm not making you give money to anyone. Stash it all in you mattress or freezer for all I care. The only people in America trying to force you to give money to insurance companies are the left wing dems.

 

Brian37 wrote:

It cannot be all about profits. 

Sure it can. Profits is the ONLY reason I invest in any business and when I invest I expect the owner to be all about profits as well. If I am just going to be giving away money anyway I will give it to a charity.

 

Brian37 wrote:

You are confusing system of government which doesn't change that monopolies can arise in ANY system. 

I am 100% against monopolies. Including and especially government sponsored monopolies. Government should play a role in making sure companies do NOT have monopolies. Have I ever said otherwise? Currently, the only monopolies in America are CREATED by the government.

 

Brian37 wrote:

I love America too, in that I am not forced to pray to a zombie god on December 25th. I love the fact that I can go to a  bar on Sunday and or buy beer and bring it home on Sunday, and watch the NFL on Sunday knowing that the money I spent on that beer did not go to a church.

Some areas of Ohio you CANNOT buy wine in a restaurant on Sundays and in some counties you can't buy alcohol at all and importing wine through a small winery is really a bitch. Fucking Christian nannies.

 

Brian37 wrote:

If money equals power, then you might as well believe in a god, because those who have are the only ones who are right.

Money does equal power in that it creates more options. Otherwise, I am completely missing your logic in what that has to do with being right or god.

 

Brian37 wrote:

I know this was about Christmas, but you touched a nerve with me. It bothers me that when people claim false  persecution when they have way more than they need. Wealth is not my problem, jadedness is.

All classes are needed in a healthy economy. And just like the temp in a tropical fish tank, the pay gap cannot be so lopsided as to screw the lower paid over.

Not sure how exactly I touched a nerve. I would think you would support me spending large sums of money on Christmas presents. After all, I am "spreading the wealth" since many people I buy presents for make less than me. Of course, some make more and they get presents to but I don't discriminate based on the recipients income, only by how much I like them.  Still confused about your apparent belief that we need to get rid of the poor class by giving them more while also holding the belief that we need a poor class. Seems contradictory to me.

 

Anyway Brian, go buy some Christmas presents and stop being such a Scrooge. Maybe you could buy the Redskins a new defense, a bunch of illegal immigrants being paid $5 a game could do a better job.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

ManuAndres44 wrote:

 Because to have this human bonds is more important than the rest of things you can purchase at a department store. It is impossible to buy family, friends and love after all. So, let's have a different meaning for the x-mas!

That totally depends upon the human with whom you are bonding. There are some members of my family who are not even worth a $20 gift card from Walmart and others that I would give up everything for. And it is extremely easy to buy friends, some of them might even become good friends and some might even come to love you (and/or you love them).

 

As for all the regular attacks on the evils of consumerism that come every Xmas let me say this. It should be a hell of a lot of fun buying and giving presents. If you don't have fun giving someone a present you probably don't like them as much as you pretend. So why are you pretending? If you don't like someone and you don't want to get them a present, don't. I never understood why people feel obligated to buy a present for people in their family simply because they are family so they buy some crap that they know is going to be returned to the store or lost in a closet. Buy well thought out presents for those you truly care for and screw the rest of them regardless of the happenstance of relations.

 

If you don't like your family, don't spend Christmas with them. I hear Rich is having a nice party. If you arrive prepared with high quality booze and/or beer he will probably even let you in the door. (And you say friendship can't be bought)

 

 

 

Well I agree with you in the kind of bonds you can have with your family or friends. If it is not so strong, you won't feel a nice feeling when you give a present. The problem is when you want to give a importance to the bond -when it may not have it so much- through a material thing.

It is true you can give presents, the problem starts when you buy craps and they spend all the year in the closet as you wrote. Also when people buy just following the instructions of an advertisement we face to the consumerism that make forget the meaning of sharing with your beloved ones.

And yeah, sure, you can have friends through presents, beers and money. But what will happen when your had ran out with all your money? Probably that friends are going to look for another person with money that can buy their friendship.

 

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ManuAndres44 wrote:  I

ManuAndres44 wrote:

 

 

I would like to know your opinion about which should be the attitude of the atheists toward the Christmas. Should the atheists give to it another meaning as sharing with family? I will wait for your comments. Thanks.

     At Christmas I purchase gifts for my girl friend and my mother ( both Christians ) out of consideration for them alone.  As for myself, I have no interest in religious holidays be they Christian, pagan or some bizarre melding of the two.

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ManuAndres44 wrote: Well I

ManuAndres44 wrote:

Well I agree with you in the kind of bonds you can have with your family or friends. If it is not so strong, you won't feel a nice feeling when you give a present. The problem is when you want to give a importance to the bond -when it may not have it so much- through a material thing.

It is true you can give presents, the problem starts when you buy craps and they spend all the year in the closet as you wrote. Also when people buy just following the instructions of an advertisement we face to the consumerism that make forget the meaning of sharing with your beloved ones.

And yeah, sure, you can have friends through presents, beers and money. But what will happen when your had ran out with all your money? Probably that friends are going to look for another person with money that can buy their friendship.

 

A suggestion - give to a secular charity or cause in their name.  Or to a religious charity if you are comfortable with the particular charity.  Or to their favorite charity.  The charity will sometimes send a pretty card to the person saying you gave a gift in their name.  Or you can pick out a card and let them know to whom you gave the gift.  A lot of charities you can give to on line.

My in-laws gave us a years membership to the local art museum.  I love museums and I am very appreciative of the gift.  Or a zoo or science museum or fun park or whatever entertainment you have locally.  Again, many of them you can buy memberships or tickets on line.  The art museum sends us a card, letting us know they have renewed our membership.  All the catalogs and notices come to us, so my in-laws are not bothered with mailings.

No commercialism, no junk in the closet, no long lines at the mall.  And you can opt out of follow up emails or phone calls - or give them your relatives phone number and email. 

And yeah, some people desert you when you can't give gifts.  But your real friends and special family members hang with you.  But maybe you will like this song:

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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100percentAtheist

100percentAtheist wrote:

 New Year rules, Christmas sucks.

In Russia and in Europe, the emphasis is on the New Year. 

That said, I always support paid holidays whatever they are.

A picture I took New Year's day, 2003, within the walls of the Kremlin:

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


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ManuAndres44 wrote: I would

ManuAndres44 wrote:
 

I would like to know your opinion about which should be the attitude of the atheists toward the Christmas.

 

Since the early Christians hijacked the winter soltice festival from other religions, I say hijack it back from them.

 

ManuAndres44 wrote:
 

Should the atheists give to it another meaning as sharing with family?

Only the Manson family.

An atheist can assign whatever meaning he wants to whatever he wants without fear of eternal torture. So I say assign whatever meaning to Christmas makes you happy.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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cj wrote:ManuAndres44 wrote:

cj wrote:

ManuAndres44 wrote:

Well I agree with you in the kind of bonds you can have with your family or friends. If it is not so strong, you won't feel a nice feeling when you give a present. The problem is when you want to give a importance to the bond -when it may not have it so much- through a material thing.

It is true you can give presents, the problem starts when you buy craps and they spend all the year in the closet as you wrote. Also when people buy just following the instructions of an advertisement we face to the consumerism that make forget the meaning of sharing with your beloved ones.

And yeah, sure, you can have friends through presents, beers and money. But what will happen when your had ran out with all your money? Probably that friends are going to look for another person with money that can buy their friendship.

 

A suggestion - give to a secular charity or cause in their name.  Or to a religious charity if you are comfortable with the particular charity.  Or to their favorite charity.  The charity will sometimes send a pretty card to the person saying you gave a gift in their name.  Or you can pick out a card and let them know to whom you gave the gift.  A lot of charities you can give to on line.

My in-laws gave us a years membership to the local art museum.  I love museums and I am very appreciative of the gift.  Or a zoo or science museum or fun park or whatever entertainment you have locally.  Again, many of them you can buy memberships or tickets on line.  The art museum sends us a card, letting us know they have renewed our membership.  All the catalogs and notices come to us, so my in-laws are not bothered with mailings.

No commercialism, no junk in the closet, no long lines at the mall.  And you can opt out of follow up emails or phone calls - or give them your relatives phone number and email. 

And yeah, some people desert you when you can't give gifts.  But your real friends and special family members hang with you.  But maybe you will like this song:

 

Of course it was a nice song! Thanks

Well as you wrote, I think it is possible you can give gifts to sincere people that loves you and you love. And that's not going to change the things between you and them. The problem is when you give presents to the wrong people. The mistake of nowadays is to focus just only in the presents. But if you can have that special sharing with your in-laws, go ahead. Great for you!

 

 

Debate is the best way to share the knowledge


Beyond Saving
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ManuAndres44 wrote: Well I

ManuAndres44 wrote:

 

Well I agree with you in the kind of bonds you can have with your family or friends. If it is not so strong, you won't feel a nice feeling when you give a present. The problem is when you want to give a importance to the bond -when it may not have it so much- through a material thing.

 

I see the material thing as more of a symbol of appreciation. Especially for those I care about but don't see often because of geographical location. 

 

ManuAndres44 wrote:

It is true you can give presents, the problem starts when you buy craps and they spend all the year in the closet as you wrote. Also when people buy just following the instructions of an advertisement we face to the consumerism that make forget the meaning of sharing with your beloved ones.

Agreed.

 

ManuAndres44 wrote:

And yeah, sure, you can have friends through presents, beers and money. But what will happen when your had ran out with all your money? Probably that friends are going to look for another person with money that can buy their friendship.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. It isn't really the basis of a lifelong friendship but it can be the beginning of one. The bottom line is that people are initially attracted to others who can offer them something they want. It might be money, social status, job, sex or companionship. If you are providing a person with something they want it can easily become a door through which a far more substantial friendship can be founded. I have several good friendships with people whom I initially became associated with because of their money or vice versa. If you want money it is wise to become friends with those who have it because your personal wealth will generally rise to match those you hang out with. That will be chapter 3 of my book "How to Make Money While Being Lazy" if I ever get ambitious enough to write it. 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X