G'day from Australia

DownStreamGeorge
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G'day from Australia

Hello everybody.

I'm a very happy Atheist living in Canberra (capital of Australia). I found this site a couple of days ago and I think it is brilliant. I have a couple of questions however.

What is the difference between someone who is an atheist ond someone who is areligious?

Atheist from the greek:

'A' meaning without e.g agnatha (without a jaw) and

'Theos' meaning god

Thus if I also actively disagree with any form of mantra, code, belief system governing the universe, even the ones that do not mention a god is areligious a better term?

 

I had a discussion with my Year 11 physics teacher years ago. I said I believe in science, he replied that isn't belief. Does belief imply a lack of evidence? Can I say I believe in science?

I think/know/understand that the work that previous scientists have done is correct (well, to a point. I trust the ones in the scientific consensus), but that I can do the same things under the same conditions and come up with the same result.

Does much of that make sense?


BobSpence
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DownStreamGeorge wrote:Hello

DownStreamGeorge wrote:

Hello everybody.

I'm a very happy Atheist living in Canberra (capital of Australia). I found this site a couple of days ago and I think it is brilliant. I have a couple of questions however.

What is the difference between someone who is an atheist ond someone who is areligious?

Atheist from the greek:

'A' meaning without e.g agnatha (without a jaw) and

'Theos' meaning god

Thus if I also actively disagree with any form of mantra, code, belief system governing the universe, even the ones that do not mention a god is areligious a better term?

 

I had a discussion with my Year 11 physics teacher years ago. I said I believe in science, he replied that isn't belief. Does belief imply a lack of evidence? Can I say I believe in science?

I think/know/understand that the work that previous scientists have done is correct (well, to a point. I trust the ones in the scientific consensus), but that I can do the same things under the same conditions and come up with the same result.

Does much of that make sense?

Hey, that intro is my line!

I'm from Brisbane.

But seriously, welcome. Sounds like you are on track about belief and science, at least to me.

Once you start trying to suggest changing labels that have become entrenched, it can be tedious and frustrating. 

And trying to justify interpretation of words based on their structure and the prefixes and suffixes is not a good way to go - once a word has been in use for a while, the common understanding and usage inevitably drifts to some degree. we have to acknowledge that and ride with the actual usage, no matter how irritating it can be to see people use words in what we see as 'incorrect' ways.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't try, sometimes such new terms can catch on.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Answers in Gene...
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 Hey there dude!   There

 

Hey there dude!

 

There are a few people from OZ around here. Most of us are from North America though and that much is quite divisive.

 

Personally, I hail from the great state of Connecticut and a not insignificant part of my economy comes from the production of guns. So that is going to be part of whom I happen to be.

 

As far as the use of language goes, you might want to consider what you mean by “I believe in”...

 

For example, I believe that if my hammer hits the nail right, it will go into the wood just a bit more. I also believe that if I miss the nail, I will be screaming “FUCK THAT HURTS”.

 

In that sense, I don't think that anyone has a huge problem believing in science.

 

Against that, the phrase “I believe in” has a meaning in the public space that includes lots of stuff that just fails to be real. Consider the idea of abortion. If things had been different your mom might have had one and you would not be here. If that does not fail to creep you out, then nothing does.

 

However, if someone believes that god hates abortions, then what of the pregnant women of the city of Sodom​? They were not trying anything, nor were their “preborn” children. Perhaps their husbands had some butfucking in mind. However, that all happened two books of the bible before god got around to mentioning that he was not cool with dudes butt fucking other dudes.

 

Bear in mind that god does not seem to have an opinion on butt fucking your wife. Kids ain't gonna happen that way but since god fails to condemn it, well, he must be fine with it, right?

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

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Welcome from Portland, Oregon

Hi,

 

I am not a philosopher - I don't much care for the past time.  But I'll have a go at atheist and areligious.  Atheist means no gods.  Areligious means no religions.  I grew up in an areligious home.  My family professed a belief in god and Jesus as well, but did not usually go to church.  I put in usually since my mom dragged us to sunday school when I was about 5-6 years old for about a year.  Otherwise, my dad has never been to church that I know of and my mom only went after she converted to Jehovah Witness shortly before she died.  So areligious was how I was raised.

I tried being religious and being areligious myself and gave the whole works up as a bad deal and now I am an atheist.

Belief can be an overworked word.  Some people believe in god/s/dess, some of the younger ones believe in pink unicorns, fairies, dragons, and balrogs.  But we also say, and it makes sense to us to say, we believe that apples fall down, not up.  That the scientific method brought us computers, hot and cold running water, sewers, electricity, and all that other good stuff most of us would not be able to survive without anymore.  And so we say we believe in the scientific method to continue to explore our universe and produce more inventions and applications that will make life hopefully easier and more interesting.  It is the difference between belief based on wishful thinking and belief based on predictions that are based on facts.  I understand why your physics professor was trying to make a distinction, but I don't think it was/is a necessary distinction.

No, I don't want to get into the ridiculous argument about what is a fact.  (some of the philosopher types are truly nutty)  I go with what can be measured in any fashion is a fact.  What can not be measured is playing with your navel - or whatever.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


butterbattle
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Hi, welcome to the

Hi, welcome to the forum.

DownStreamGeorge wrote:
What is the difference between someone who is an atheist ond someone who is areligious?

...


Thus if I also actively disagree with any form of mantra, code, belief system governing the universe, even the ones that do not mention a god is areligious a better term?

I define religion broadly as any dogmatic organized belief system. So, you could be an atheist and be religious, provided that your religion does not include a belief in God. I do think areligious explains our position more than atheism, but I wouldn't say that you should use it instead of atheism because you could be a nonreligious theist.

Ultimately, I like 'scientific naturalist.' Unfortunately, that's quite a mouthful for the average person.

DownSteamGeorge wrote:
I had a discussion with my Year 11 physics teacher years ago. I said I believe in science, he replied that isn't belief. Does belief imply a lack of evidence? Can I say I believe in science?

I think/know/understand that the work that previous scientists have done is correct (well, to a point. I trust the ones in the scientific consensus), but that I can do the same things under the same conditions and come up with the same result.

Does much of that make sense?

If we're pedantic, then sure, we shouldn't 'believe' in anything. But, if we're just going by the colloquial meaning of 'believe,' which is just to say that we are a proponent of whatever it is we 'believe,' then I might say that I 'believe' in evolution.

I see what you mean, but it's still a bit strange to say that you 'believe' in science. Science itself is not a claim, but a method of testing claims and organizing explanations about the natural world. What you're really saying is you 'believe' that science is a reliable method of acquiring knowledge. I agree.

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


Atheistextremist
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Hi George, pleased to meet you.

 

I'm sure you're saying you believe science works but your teacher is thinking you believe in science as if it is a religion - which you obviously do not.

I think atheist takes precedence over areligious but as some one here has pointed out in the past, theravada buddhism is an atheist religion so it's not cut and dried. 

And there are plenty of people with a generalised sense of a mighty motive force that holds the universe together who are pantheists and don't follow a religion at all.

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Not another Australian.

Not another Australian. Jebus kristos on a cracker man.

You rip off our Constitution to cover up a penal colony and your animals are really fucked up. A pouch? Huh? And how the hell did those bears survive evolution being so fucking slow? And you cant even swim in the ocean because of the poisonous snakes and jellyfish and crocks.  And how the hell do you pee upside down?

And you had to go and get an atheist PM before we did, always trying to one up us. THAT CUP IS OURS MOTHERFUCKER!

(Note to self: Did I think this, or type it?)

And for the love of Pete, stay away from Bob Spence, he is nothing but trouble.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Atheistextremist
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Mate, I think

 

We're a British constitutional monarchy rather than a republic. We had a referendum over the issue a while back and the republicans lost on the basis of the complexity of a complete constitutional makeover. I think we should be a republic but unless the electorate is presented with a functioning model to nominate with a president invested with executive power they'll never support the concept in a majority.

And yeah, peeing upside down is hard.

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck