Righteous Reverend Willie G.

ReverendWillieg
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Righteous Reverend Willie G.

Recommended here by an athiest and I have heard this is a sensible place to discuss topics most find abrasive and hard to swallow.  I love politics, religion and all of the things you should never discuss at work.  So I guess the next this is what am I?  I beieve in a higher power, my viewpoint is constantly changing and forever in a flux of learning.  I hold nothing sacred except for maybe star trek and star wars, *note: space balls is sacriligeous*.  I am the God of where I stand and due to the essence of free will the heighths of my divinity is matched only by the depths of my depravity.  I hold organized religion in contempt and dogmatic views from any perspective is fairly rediculous.  I am curious as to see what some people think of my ramblings so I am welcome for discussion.  so fire away and I really believe I will learn a lot from being here.  Happy Honnika and have a good day.  Sticking out tongue


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ReverendWillieg wrote:If you

ReverendWillieg wrote:
If you could prove God didn't exist then yes I would quit believing in him.

Okay. Good.

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Just so you know that is my quest to either prove or disprove, since I see no way to prove God exists without God's help

How have you come to this conclusion ? What makes you believe that there is no way to prove your gods existence without his help ?

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I only have one option and that is to disprove God, so get to disproving I'm all ears.  Again you presume to know me and what I think.

First, asking a question is not presumptuous. 

 

 Second, what type of evidence are you looking for to disprove your god hypothesis ? Since you are the one who came up with this idea, what would it take for you to realize that none of its true ?

Come join me at my blog AfterFaith or on the forums at The Atheist Network.


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Rev Willie, if you require

Rev Willie, if you require strict proof or disproof, you can 'know' nothing, since all knowledge is based on certain basic assumptions or 'axioms', which cannot in themselves be proved.

In the real world, all we can do is assess the balance of evidence for and against each side of a proposition.

So inability to prove or disprove is irrelevant - it does NOT justify an assumption of equivalent truth status to both sides.

Your quest is doomed, if you are seeking proof or disproof..

Especially with respect to the God question, since there are an indefinitely large number of alternative potential 'explanations' for existence, especially if you are prepared to allow infinite attributes of any kind, and 'magic', ie disembodied minds able to simply 'will' stuff into existence.

If you assume there are 1000 alternative specific forms of God, then the chance of any one being the true one, by your approach, is 1 in 1000.

To get better than that you need to assess the relative plausibility of each. 

Since we have essentially no way to assess the plausibility of any (non-contradictory) God concepts with such open-ended sets of attributes, you are stuck.

Even requiring "God's help" to help you 'prove' his existence doesn't get you anywhere, even ignoring the hopeless circularity of the idea. How do you prove that something that seems to settle the question is God 'helping you', and not just a product of your own imagination, or an error in your own logic or reasoning???

Face it man, that is why Theists go on about 'faith', which is only a psychological trick, putting a nicer sounding label on what really is "I have  no f**king idea about what is the ultimate truth behind it all, but I like this one".

IOW, going for the God hypothesis means abandoning all claim to any level of certainty about anything, it all becomes a matter of personal opinion.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

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ReverendWillieg
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You keep putting it to where

You keep putting it to where I have to do all the proving, Now I say that I see patterns that only assumes there is an intelligence behind the scenes whether that is aliens I don't know but I choose to call it God for lack of a better term.  One day I may be proven wrong that's all good and well, but I don't hear any of you except for Bobspence say that there is any likelihood whatsoever of there being a God you seem so dead set in your views no possibility.  At least bob said that there is very little likelihood of a God.  Now I just believe there is no way to disprove or prove there is a God you can come up with a thousand different ways to theorize or whatever and it all comes down to perception.  Do I believe in a God it doesn't matter, I say yes because I want to.  Now when I see these patterns and you see the same patterns and come up with another view, what makes your view  better than mine, your evidence?  I want to hear it.  How would I go about disproving God I have no idea but I am still searching, possibly I will study some more into the theory of entropy maybe that will help.  I however will not do one thing I won't say that I am absolutely right on anything because I can't say that.  I can say I am probably right but that is about it.  Apparently I have created quite a stir I have admins and this Jake that apparently has taken an interest in me and all kinds of others which I have to say is quite cool.  I thank you for this quite warm welcome.  I want to hear some theories from some of you on why you think God doesn't exist.  I would also like to hear from some other thiests in here to see what they think.  I have given my views on some theories and I will expound on them more in time but I want to hear more from you guys.  Why do you believe God doesn't exist and if your a thiest/panthiest why do you believe that God/Gods exist?  I want to hear some of these viewpoints.   

I am the God of where I stand


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ReverendWillieg wrote:You

ReverendWillieg wrote:

You keep putting it to where I have to do all the proving, Now I say that I see patterns that only assumes there is an intelligence behind the scenes whether that is aliens I don't know but I choose to call it God for lack of a better term.  One day I may be proven wrong that's all good and well, but I don't hear any of you except for Bobspence say that there is any likelihood whatsoever of there being a God you seem so dead set in your views no possibility.  At least bob said that there is very little likelihood of a God.  Now I just believe there is no way to disprove or prove there is a God you can come up with a thousand different ways to theorize or whatever and it all comes down to perception.  Do I believe in a God it doesn't matter, I say yes because I want to.  Now when I see these patterns and you see the same patterns and come up with another view, what makes your view  better than mine, your evidence?  I want to hear it.  How would I go about disproving God I have no idea but I am still searching, possibly I will study some more into the theory of entropy maybe that will help.  I however will not do one thing I won't say that I am absolutely right on anything because I can't say that.  I can say I am probably right but that is about it.  Apparently I have created quite a stir I have admins and this Jake that apparently has taken an interest in me and all kinds of others which I have to say is quite cool.  I thank you for this quite warm welcome.  I want to hear some theories from some of you on why you think God doesn't exist.  I would also like to hear from some other thiests in here to see what they think.  I have given my views on some theories and I will expound on them more in time but I want to hear more from you guys.  Why do you believe God doesn't exist and if your a thiest/panthiest why do you believe that God/Gods exist?  I want to hear some of these viewpoints.   

God belief assumes a whole bunch of things which we do not observe in any way via modern science, which can measure things far beyond our bodily senses capabilities, and we find nothing that points specifically to a God.

We can demonstrate easily by experiment how many patterns can form from purely natural forces - I gave several examples.

We have plausible general explanations for the origin of the Universe which do not assume the existence of a supernatural magic being, which makes them far more reasonable.

Once again, IT IS NOT ABOUT PROOF OR DISPROOF!!!!

It is about relative likelihood and how many wild assumptions (like infinite magic beings) are involved in the various ideas.

It's like when we look at a rock falling to the ground, and we say that there is steady force existing between the Earth and any nearby object which pulls on them with a strength predicted quite accurately by a fairly simple mathematical equation.

But then someone else insists that there is some invisible, intangible being pulling things down to the ground. And our 'force' is also invisible. We can't disprove the invisible being idea, so what would you go with, and why?

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


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ReverendWillieg wrote:You

ReverendWillieg wrote:
You keep putting it to where I have to do all the proving,

Strictly speaking, we do not "prove" things unless they already logically follow from premises that are assumed to be true. Nevertheless, you are the one making the positive claim; for that claim to be based on anything more than wishful thinking, of course you have to provide evidence to support that claim. Your claim is not automatically justified simply if others cannot disprove it.

ReverendWillieg wrote:
Now I say that I see patterns that only assumes there is an intelligence behind the scenes whether that is aliens I don't know but I choose to call it God for lack of a better term.

So, you assume that there is an intelligence governing this universe. That means you have no evidence. Is that correct?

ReverendWillieg wrote:
One day I may be proven wrong that's all good and well, but I don't hear any of you except for Bobspence say that there is any likelihood whatsoever of there being a God you seem so dead set in your views no possibility.

'God' may or may not be possible depending on what you define it to be. The existence of some more powerful intelligence than humans, by itself, is certainly possible.

ReverendWillieg wrote:
Do I believe in a God it doesn't matter, I say yes because I want to.

Okay. So again, you believe in God simply because you want to. Right?

ReverendWillieg wrote:
Now when I see these patterns and you see the same patterns and come up with another view, what makes your view  better than mine, your evidence?  I want to hear it.

Alright.

Your conditional that patterns require or even imply an intelligent creator is a naked assertion i.e. it is not supported by any evidence. Furthermore, it is an attempt at a God of the gaps and a blatant failure of Occam's Razor.

Science has already adequately explained many if not most easily observable natural phenomena. For example, we already know how snowflakes form. On top of that, you posit an entirely superfluous reason for the formation of snowflakes; it has no explanatory power, it is unfalsifiable, and it possesses no pragmatic value whatsoever.

You formed this argument largely based on intuitive non sequiturs. You instinctively see patterns in the natural world, and you instinctively attribute these patterns to an intelligence. That is essentially all there is to it.

ReverendWillieg wrote:
I can say I am probably right but that is about it.

Okay.

On what grounds do you say that you are probably right?

ReverendWillieg wrote:
I want to hear some theories from some of you on why you think God doesn't exist.

You must first define God.

In order to provide evidence against a claim, that claim needs to be meaningful, precise, failsifiable, etc. Claims regarding the existence of God never satisfy all of these criteria, so I can never really provide empirical evidence against it. When the definition of God is internally inconsistent or meaningless, I can use this as an argument against the existence of such an entity. When this is not the case, I simply do not believe until I am provided with positive evidence.  

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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ReverendWillieg wrote: One

ReverendWillieg wrote:

 One day I may be proven wrong that's all good and well, but I don't hear any of you except for Bobspence say that there is any likelihood whatsoever of there being a God you seem so dead set in your views no possibility.  At least bob said that there is very little likelihood of a God.

I agree with Bob on that, most of us here would.

 

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Now I just believe there is no way to disprove or prove there is a God you can come up with a thousand different ways to theorize or whatever and it all comes down to perception. 

Which is why you should abstain from believing in god.  There are an endless list of things that possibly exist that you don't believe in, you should be consistent with your beliefs.

 

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Do I believe in a God it doesn't matter, I say yes because I want to. 

Actually I think it's because you're conditioned to believe, as I've said several times. 

 

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Now when I see these patterns and you see the same patterns and come up with another view, what makes your view  better than mine, your evidence? 

Ask yourself what makes YOUR view better than yours.  Why don't you believe in Zeus, Thor, Allah, Poseidon?  All of those gods could possibly exist as you said... and since you believe in everything that possibly exists, why are you cheating yourself of the infinitely long list of ridiculously illogical concepts you could believe in when you choose to believe in one: THE GOD YOU MADE UP.

 

 

I've been holding my tongue here because I didn't want to seem like I was belittling you but I want my friends here to know... the similarities between you and I (re: when I first came online to discuss religion) ended on the first post.  I was able to recognize my flaw in logic in one post. 

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Beyond Saving
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ReverendWillieg wrote:You

ReverendWillieg wrote:

You keep putting it to where I have to do all the proving, Now I say that I see patterns that only assumes there is an intelligence behind the scenes whether that is aliens I don't know but I choose to call it God for lack of a better term. 

And do you have any evidence of some kind of intelligence? Can we at least agree that when a claim is made without any evidence that there is no rational reason to even consider it until some kind of evidence is presented? 

 

ReverendWillieg wrote:

Now when I see these patterns and you see the same patterns and come up with another view, what makes your view  better than mine, your evidence?  I want to hear it. 

Which "pattern" do you believe is caused by god? Name a specific and I'll bet you will be swamped by the science freaks with more evidence that is was done absent a supernatural power than you will know what to do with. Your apparent desire to have every possible pattern or every possible thing you might believe was created by god to be proven otherwise simply isn't realistic. We would have to move the whole internet onto this one site. Take one step at a time and after realizing the first hundred things you thought were created by god were created without a god maybe you will give up the idea of god before we have to discuss the entire body of science.

 

ReverendWillieg wrote:

  I want to hear some theories from some of you on why you think God doesn't exist. 

It is very simple. It is irrational to believe a claim that has no evidence supporting it- there is no evidence that a god exists - therefore it is irrational to believe in god.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Jake
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Before I begin, Rev,

Before I begin, Rev, paragraphs are your friends. Instead of bulking up everything you want to say into some big long paragraph. Break them up. It makes you look less crazy. Smiling

ReverendWillieg wrote:
You keep putting it to where I have to do all the proving,

That's what happens when you make a claim of existence. The burden of proof is upon YOU.

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Now I say that I see patterns that only assumes there is an intelligence behind the scenes whether that is aliens I don't know but I choose to call it God for lack of a better term.

Of course you see patterns. Our minds naturally seek out patterns. The problem is, where you see pattern, you call it god. When I see patterns, I call it nature. Ask yourself why you add something to what we both are viewing, that doesn't need to be there ?

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One day I may be proven wrong that's all good and well,

Kinda hard to prove yourself wrong when you can't even prove yourself right isn't it ?

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but I don't hear any of you except for Bobspence say that there is any likelihood whatsoever of there being a God

No. There may be a god. However all claims of existence require objective proof. When that is not provided, there's no reason to believe in the claim. Hence why we are asking you all of these questions.

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you seem so dead set in your views no possibility.

nope.

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At least bob said that there is very little likelihood of a God.

Just like there's very little likelihood that Snarfwidgettes exist.

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Now I just believe there is no way to disprove or prove there is a God you can come up with a thousand different ways to theorize or whatever and it all comes down to perception.

No, as I demonstrated before, it doesn't. If I drop a brick on your head from 400 feet up, its going to smash in your brains no matter what your perception is.

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Do I believe in a God it doesn't matter, I say yes because I want to.

That's fine. You can believe in anything you want. It doesn't mean you are justified in doing so though. I can choose to believe that throwing nickels into my toilet will keep bad things from happening to me. It doesn't mean it's real.

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Now when I see these patterns and you see the same patterns and come up with another view, what makes your view  better than mine, your evidence?  I want to hear it.

Occam's Razor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Simply put, when two or more hypothesis are given for an event, the one that's the simplest is usually the right one. You see patterns and you want to add a god to it. I see patterns and I add nothing to it. I understand that the patterns exist naturally from the universe and that my brain works in a way that finds patterns out of seemingly random things. Ever sit on the grass and watch the clouds form shapes ? Is there someone in the clouds making one look like a car, or a boat ? Is there someone designing the clouds to look like familiar things for our entertainment ? Of course not. It's just the way our brains work.

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How would I go about disproving God I have no idea but I am still searching,

Usually, a lack of evidence for something, is a pretty good sign that thing doesn't exist. You have no objective proof for your god. So why believe ?

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possibly I will study some more into the theory of entropy maybe that will help.

It couldn't hurt.

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I however will not do one thing I won't say that I am absolutely right on anything because I can't say that.

Sure you can. I can say that if you hold a pound of C4 and ignite it, I am absolutely sure you will die in the explosion. I can say with absolute certainty that if two cars traveling at high speeds impact each other, that both cars will have signs of damage. Just a few examples.

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I can say I am probably right but that is about it.

Based on what ? All you have is subjective evidence of a god that you can't even define and doesn't even need to be included ? Why would you assume that you are right ?

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Apparently I have created quite a stir I have admins and this Jake that apparently has taken an interest in me

Eh, just bored really. 

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and all kinds of others which I have to say is quite cool.  I thank you for this quite warm welcome.  I want to hear some theories from some of you on why you think God doesn't exist.

You can't prove something doesn't exist. You can only negate the proof given of it's existence.

 

Come join me at my blog AfterFaith or on the forums at The Atheist Network.


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I specifically stated that

I specifically stated that there is 'very little likelihood that God exists" to emphasize the point that many Theists miss, that we are NOT required to PROVE god doesn't exist, or is impossible, to justify our position.

There are an all but infinite number of things or scenarios, that are not impossible.

To pick one, like the God hypothesis, you are logically required to justify accepting that one and rejecting a whole bunch of other possibilities which also have little or no evidence for their existence

At best, we merely have to provide evidence that there are alternative explanations which are more consistent with current experience, science, etc, and involve fewer naked assumptions.

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

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Well I guess most people

Well I guess most people here simply believe in what they hear, see or feel or assume can be proven by hypothesis, that is fine.  You guys obviously argue only logic but that is based only on what you can understand, if God exists it would be beyond all of that beyond supposedly perception.  You have many opinions some I agree with and some I don't, some people would assume I am on the fence between athiesm and thiesm I am not I have held my beliefs for a long time and worked through many theories to get to here.  Now I am going to put it bluntly you guys seem to want to attack anyone that doesn't agree with your logic or viewpoint I am quite content to agree to disagree I am not saying you are wrong I am saying at this time I do not believe as you do.  Now quite frankly I am trying to reply to about what 5 of you and I am not going to.  I will take what you say and think about it some of what you have discussed I have already thought about before and still thinking about now.  However I just want to point out you guys seem to think you know something, I don't think you know anything you just think you do.  I at least admit I don't know anything but I will keep learning and weighing and testing to have a constantly evolving hypothesis.  Unless you somehow come up with something I haven't heard before or a view I haven't looked at before my opinion probably will not change.  Jake and the rest of you guys bring up some good points but you have your own assumptions and perceptions and I have mine. 

 

Reverend Willie G.

I am the God of where I stand


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ReverendWillieg wrote:Well I

ReverendWillieg wrote:
Well I guess most people here simply believe in what they hear, see or feel or assume can be proven by hypothesis, that is fine.

No other way exists. I defy you to prove otherwise.

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You guys obviously argue only logic but that is based only on what you can understand,

You OBVIOUSLY don't understand what logic is.

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if God exists it would be beyond all of that beyond supposedly perception.

Have you not read a thing I've said ? It's no more about perception then a brick on your head is.

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You have many opinions some I agree with and some I don't,

What opinion have I given you ?

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some people would assume I am on the fence between athiesm and thiesm I am not I have held my beliefs for a long time and worked through many theories to get to here.

Either you're a liar or you don't know what a theory is. Let me clue you in. A theory requires FACTS. Since you have no FACTS regarding your god, you have no theory. At most, you have a hypothesis.

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Now I am going to put it bluntly you guys seem to want to attack anyone that doesn't agree with your logic or viewpoint

No one has attacked YOU. Just what you regard as evidence. Ask yourself why you're taking this all so personal ?

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I am quite content to agree to disagree I am not saying you are wrong I am saying at this time I do not believe as you do.

I get that. It's just that none of your disagreements are based on reality. So, they are laughable at best.

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Now quite frankly I am trying to reply to about what 5 of you and I am not going to.

I've asked you about 5 questions and you haven't answered one. It seems to me you only answer the easy questions that you are prepared for and you ignore the ones that ask you to actually think.

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I will take what you say and think about it some of what you have discussed I have already thought about before and still thinking about now.

Ummmm.... okay. I guess.

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However I just want to point out you guys seem to think you know something,

Pssssst... It's because we DO.

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I don't think you know anything you just think you do.

And yet you can't prove a single one of us wrong. Why do you think that is ?

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I at least admit I don't know anything

Obviously.

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but I will keep learning and weighing and testing to have a constantly evolving hypothesis.

No you wont. You'll stick your head in the sand, claim a knowledge that can't be substantiated, and whenever someone points out where your facts are wrong, you will ignore them and claim you are being personally attacked. JUST LIKE YOU HAVE DONE IN THIS THREAD. 

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Unless you somehow come up with something I haven't heard before or a view I haven't looked at before my opinion probably will not change.

That's because you don't actually address any points. Especially any of mine.

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Jake and the rest of you guys bring up some good points but you have your own assumptions and perceptions and I have mine.

I have made no assumptions. Nothing I have said is based on perception. Either you don't actually read what people write, or your'e to embarassed to admit you have no clue as to what people are talking about and you're to ashamed to learn.

 

 

Come join me at my blog AfterFaith or on the forums at The Atheist Network.


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ReverendWillieg wrote:Well I

ReverendWillieg wrote:

Well I guess most people here simply believe in what they hear, see or feel or assume can be proven by hypothesis, that is fine.  You guys obviously argue only logic but that is based only on what you can understand, if God exists it would be beyond all of that beyond supposedly perception.  You have many opinions some I agree with and some I don't, some people would assume I am on the fence between athiesm and thiesm I am not I have held my beliefs for a long time and worked through many theories to get to here.  Now I am going to put it bluntly you guys seem to want to attack anyone that doesn't agree with your logic or viewpoint I am quite content to agree to disagree I am not saying you are wrong I am saying at this time I do not believe as you do.  Now quite frankly I am trying to reply to about what 5 of you and I am not going to.  I will take what you say and think about it some of what you have discussed I have already thought about before and still thinking about now.  However I just want to point out you guys seem to think you know something, I don't think you know anything you just think you do.  I at least admit I don't know anything but I will keep learning and weighing and testing to have a constantly evolving hypothesis.  Unless you somehow come up with something I haven't heard before or a view I haven't looked at before my opinion probably will not change.  Jake and the rest of you guys bring up some good points but you have your own assumptions and perceptions and I have mine.  

Reverend Willie G.

Practical knowledge does not require that everything be provable, that is just one of your mistakes.

We are not "attacking" you, but when you make statements like " I don't think you know anything you just think you do. " then you are attacking us, you hypocrite. 

We are just pointing out the deep flaws in your arguments.

We accept as likely to be true what has well-documentes and plausible evidence to back it up.

You don't prove anything by 'hypothesis', you show that some hypothesis (aka educated guess) may be true by testing it against the real world, by observation and experiment.

If it passes, it may be elevated to a 'theory'.

That statement alone shows you don't know what you are talking about, or at the very least don't understand the meaning of many of the terms you are throwing around.

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


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ReverendWillieg wrote:Well I

ReverendWillieg wrote:

Well I guess most people here simply believe in what they hear, see or feel or assume can be proven by hypothesis, that is fine.  You guys obviously argue only logic but that is based only on what you can understand, if God exists it would be beyond all of that beyond supposedly perception.  You have many opinions some I agree with and some I don't, some people would assume I am on the fence between athiesm and thiesm I am not I have held my beliefs for a long time and worked through many theories to get to here.  Now I am going to put it bluntly you guys seem to want to attack anyone that doesn't agree with your logic or viewpoint I am quite content to agree to disagree I am not saying you are wrong I am saying at this time I do not believe as you do.  Now quite frankly I am trying to reply to about what 5 of you and I am not going to.  I will take what you say and think about it some of what you have discussed I have already thought about before and still thinking about now.  However I just want to point out you guys seem to think you know something, I don't think you know anything you just think you do.  I at least admit I don't know anything but I will keep learning and weighing and testing to have a constantly evolving hypothesis.  Unless you somehow come up with something I haven't heard before or a view I haven't looked at before my opinion probably will not change.  Jake and the rest of you guys bring up some good points but you have your own assumptions and perceptions and I have mine. 

 

Reverend Willie G.

 

Generally a conversation includes considering a persons response and answering direct questions or arguing why our points are wrong. Pretty arrogant of you to accuse us of "attacking" you when you have not addressed any of the well written arguments an inquiries directed towards you while proclaiming your superiority and how your beliefs "evolve". Especially since no one has done anything other than ask questions about YOUR beliefs and asked you what evidence led you to your beliefs which has been met with a resounding wall of silence.

I can guarantee if you ask ANY of us about any positive belief we hold we will provide the evidence that led us to our conclusion. You have nothing other than "I feel like believing it" as your evidence which simply doesn't hold water. You can "feel" like believing anything you want, it doesn't make you some great thinker. You can "feel" that 2 + 2 = 53, it doesn't make you right. So stop pretending like you are trying to learn anything when it is blatantly obvious you are not.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Sapient
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Beyond Saving wrote:You can

Beyond Saving wrote:

You can "feel" that 2 + 2 = 53, it doesn't make you right. So stop pretending like you are trying to learn anything when it is blatantly obvious you are not.

Exactly. 

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butterbattle
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I think the discussion is

I think the discussion is over guys. The Reverend isn't going to give much more.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


Sapient
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butterbattle wrote:I think

butterbattle wrote:

I think the discussion is over guys. The Reverend isn't going to give much more.

I figured he would ponder his views over a week or two and realize that believing in something just because you want to is not logical.  Unfortunately he has decided instead to move on to calling us [Brian37] fundamentalists. 

See this post.

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Sapient wrote:butterbattle

Sapient wrote:

butterbattle wrote:

I think the discussion is over guys. The Reverend isn't going to give much more.

I figured he would ponder his views over a week or two and realize that believing in something just because you want to is not logical.  Unfortunately he has decided instead to move on to calling us [Brian37] fundamentalists. 

See this post.

If the shoe fits.

 

Reverend Willie G

I am the God of where I stand


jcgadfly
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ReverendWillieg

ReverendWillieg wrote:

Sapient wrote:

butterbattle wrote:

I think the discussion is over guys. The Reverend isn't going to give much more.

I figured he would ponder his views over a week or two and realize that believing in something just because you want to is not logical.  Unfortunately he has decided instead to move on to calling us [Brian37] fundamentalists. 

See this post.

If the shoe fits.

 

Reverend Willie G

And if it doesn't you'll make it fit anyway?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin