Salem Haunted Happenings - Physical (spinal cord/neck/back/asthma) Healing via spiritual revival.

sentientmachine
Posts: 31
Joined: 2008-11-12
User is offlineOffline
Salem Haunted Happenings - Physical (spinal cord/neck/back/asthma) Healing via spiritual revival.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kD_bqmaX-Q

We've got another Benny Hinn in training here.  Thoughts?  What do you say to individuals who believe that your religious views can do spontaneous healing of back / neck injuries and asthma and other various conditions?  Could there be some kind of massive placebo effect here where people genuinely think they are healed, and that genuine belief translates into a more powerful placebo effect for the watchers.

 

Salem was an very bold move for a revival.  When I think of Salem I think of witch trials.  I think these guys know full well what they are doing, peddling Jesus as a career path.  Is it so wrong if they generate good feelings?  So what if they prevent people from getting scientific treatment or these people tell their doctor they've been healed by faith and no longer need the doctor recommended treatments. 

 

These people seem genuinely happy.  Is it wrong to have science rain on their parade?  Thoughts?

The idea that we should believe something because its true does not come naturally to all people. People don't believe in things because they are true, they believe in them because they are useful. Holding a belief that runs contrary to reality can be a marker that binds you to the loyalty of a tribe. Belief=Belonging=Protection. We must take heed to well informed hostility lest the situation degrades to the point of war and we are mowed down by a force greater than ourselves.


Kapkao
atheistSuperfan
Kapkao's picture
Posts: 4121
Joined: 2010-01-12
User is offlineOffline
Can it heal my diabeetus?

Can it heal my diabeetus?

 

(7 days later) ... I'm sorry ma'am, he's currently in a persistent vegitative state.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


sentientmachine
Posts: 31
Joined: 2008-11-12
User is offlineOffline
If your Faith is great

If your Faith is great enough, it is assumed you can heal anything, right up to complete regeneration of your entire self into another world that lasts forever when you die.  Can it?  Yes.  Will it?  It depends.

The idea that we should believe something because its true does not come naturally to all people. People don't believe in things because they are true, they believe in them because they are useful. Holding a belief that runs contrary to reality can be a marker that binds you to the loyalty of a tribe. Belief=Belonging=Protection. We must take heed to well informed hostility lest the situation degrades to the point of war and we are mowed down by a force greater than ourselves.


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2929
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
Zzzzzz.  Double blind

Zzzzzz.  Double blind trials needed.

 

Or, even simpler, a faithful amputee.  Even a finger would do nicely.

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15742
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Funny how these same people

Funny how these same people would not blow their own heads off with a shotgun and pray that it regrows back.

NOW, mind any believer reading this, I am not suggesting you, or anyone attempt that. Just making the point that faith healing is bullshit.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


sentientmachine
Posts: 31
Joined: 2008-11-12
User is offlineOffline
All I want is just a simple

All I want is just a simple rational explanation as to why they are doing this. 

 

If I start swinging a cat by the tail and saying this has caused the wind to blow a fortunate direction, people would think I was stark raving mad.  Yet what these people are doing is almost the same thing just with the parameters modified.  They believe that their faith is actually a divine replacement for a first world visit to first world medical facilities.  This is absolutely not the case, and yet they persist in believing it.

 

Why are not people backing away from these people slowly, as you would if I said my cat swinging was making the wind blow.  It boggles my mind, WHAT can you say to these people?  They seem so happy, and their happiness is used as a reason that what they do is divine and good.  It is a circle of fallacy and I can PROVE it, yet when I try to bring it up, not only do they not want to hear it, but they attack me as an evil force in the universe. 

 

I just wish I knew the right words to say to get these people to snap out of it.

 

 

The idea that we should believe something because its true does not come naturally to all people. People don't believe in things because they are true, they believe in them because they are useful. Holding a belief that runs contrary to reality can be a marker that binds you to the loyalty of a tribe. Belief=Belonging=Protection. We must take heed to well informed hostility lest the situation degrades to the point of war and we are mowed down by a force greater than ourselves.


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15742
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
There are two reasons people

There are two reasons people do this and or follow this.

1. The person doing it knows people believe this shit and simply want to get money and or attention. And or they may actually believe this shit themselves.

2. People in human history have always been capable of believing bat shit crazy crap.

Pro wrestling works for the same reason that a Soap Opera works. Neither are real and both are acting, but work because of the marketing of the emotional aspects that the buyer likes because it "feels good". It works in the same way people used to believe that the woman was really being sawed in half by the "magician".

The people who market these things know they are selling bullshit, but don't care.

I am sorry my answers are not glamorous. It simply amounts to the human species being intellectually ignorant and if something "feels good" that is much easier to accept than to do the right thing, and the difficult thing and test it and get it independently verified. And people who like "feel good" stuff, can be lead by the nose.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


marcusfish
Superfan
marcusfish's picture
Posts: 676
Joined: 2007-05-11
User is offlineOffline
Give Up

Can't change these people's minds; they have emptied the entire glass of cool-aid and would just assume throw you into traffic as second guess their decision. Most of them cannot be reached.

Why should you make the arguments anyway? Because there might be someone on the fence nearby listening. Now *those* people might be reached and brought over to the side of reason. This is why we should always try to make our answers as clear, accurate, and courteous as we are able. Most of us try to argue with the person in front of us which, imo, is a mistake. The people who are likely to argue with us will never change their mind and that shouldn't be our goal. Our goal should be to use them as an excuse to get the counter points out in the open.


harleysportster
atheist
harleysportster's picture
Posts: 3359
Joined: 2010-10-17
User is offlineOffline
I agree

marcusfish wrote:

Can't change these people's minds; they have emptied the entire glass of cool-aid and would just assume throw you into traffic as second guess their decision. Most of them cannot be reached.

Why should you make the arguments anyway? Because there might be someone on the fence nearby listening. Now *those* people might be reached and brought over to the side of reason. This is why we should always try to make our answers as clear, accurate, and courteous as we are able. Most of us try to argue with the person in front of us which, imo, is a mistake. The people who are likely to argue with us will never change their mind and that shouldn't be our goal. Our goal should be to use them as an excuse to get the counter points out in the open.

Very well put.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno