Hitchens on NPR about his cancer and dying.

Brian37
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Hitchens on NPR about his cancer and dying.

I only wish I will be as brave and pragmatically clinical as he is in his condition when my time comes.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130917506

 

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Kapkao
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Brian37 wrote:I only wish I

Brian37 wrote:

I only wish I will be as brave and pragmatically clinical as he is in his condition when my time comes.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130917506

 

You sound somewhat fatalistic...

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Kapkao wrote:Brian37 wrote:I

Kapkao wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I only wish I will be as brave and pragmatically clinical as he is in his condition when my time comes.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130917506

 

You sound somewhat fatalistic...

Are you suggesting that to expect that one will eventually die is 'fatalistic'? Do you think there is a realistic chance that you will never face death?

The only way to avoid that situation is to die suddenly and unexpectedly. 

"fatalistic: the belief that all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable."

In the case of Death, it definitely is "inevitable".

But Brian's statement doesn't involve any assumptions about the course of events leading to that inevitable, apart from possibly the assumption that he will not die suddenly, so your comment is somewhat silly.

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

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Brian37
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Kapkao wrote:Brian37 wrote:I

Kapkao wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I only wish I will be as brave and pragmatically clinical as he is in his condition when my time comes.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130917506

 

You sound somewhat fatalistic...

Please tell me what is so fatalistic about saying, "We will all die someday"? Or should I stick my head in the sand and pretend that I will live forever. All I said is that I hope I face it as realistically and as positively as Hitchens is.

There is no cosmic cartoon character presiding over my life. Facing facts is not "fatalistic" any more than knowing the earth is a globe is fatalistic.

My message was positive and hopeful in that when I come to that moment I will handle it well without superstition or fear.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Kapkao
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I knew that post would go

I knew that post would go over a few heads... I didn't think Bobspence would be amongst them.

Allow me to elaborate: "when my time comes" carries with it a subtly different meaning than "I will die at some point", at least in most of the contexts I've seen it used. Yes, dictionary-wise, they have identical meanings. Tone-wise and context-wise, it implies being predestined to die.

Are you predestined to die from something other than being human?

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


Kapkao
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BobSpence1 wrote:so your

BobSpence1 wrote:
so your comment is somewhat silly.

We'll see

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Kapkao wrote:I knew that

Kapkao wrote:

I knew that post would go over a few heads... I didn't think Bobspence would be amongst them.

Allow me to elaborate: "when my time comes" carries with it a subtly different meaning than "I will die at some point", at least in most of the contexts I've seen it used. Yes, dictionary-wise, they have identical meanings. Tone-wise and context-wise, it implies being predestined to die.

Are you predestined to die from something other than being human?

Even from a dictionary point of view, "when my time comes" is a very different statement from "I will die at some point", of course - it is not subtle, it is obvious.

The first indicates you are contemplating how you might face your death, the second is simply a statement of fact, so you have not made much of a point there.

The idea that you seem to be trying to get at amounts to something which is your purely subjective personal reaction to the thought of dying - it is obviously not part of mine or Brian's current emotional context.

This topic is one which does mark a clear divide among different individuals, as to how they react to the thought of death.

Your comment here underlines a common tendency among many people about such topics, they can't envisage that their reaction to things like death is not universal to a large degree.

Your failure to realize that is not surprising to me, from reading so many of your previous posts.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Kapkao
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BobSpence1 wrote:That is

BobSpence1 wrote:

That is your purely subjective personal reaction to the thought of dying

I've typed out my thoughts on death somewhere on RRS? Or even my reaction to said thought? Mmmmno, I don't think so.

 

Even then, this threadjack about my feelings or whatever is beyond absurd. The more I read from you regarding what I originally posted, the more confused it appears you are. I haven't so much as lifted a finger regarding my sentiments towards death. Maybe I'm confused as to what Brian thinks about all this, but still...

(And, indeed... I doubt ANYONE would share my reaction towards death, though it's a story for a different day)

 

 

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


BobSpence
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Kapkao wrote:BobSpence1

Kapkao wrote:

BobSpence1 wrote:

That is your purely subjective personal reaction to the thought of dying

I've typed out my thoughts on death somewhere on RRS? Or even my reaction to said thought? Mmmmno, I don't think so.

I was not referring to you describing your thoughts about dying, I was referring to the way you so frequently make assessments of other peoples posts which seem poorly thought-through non-sequiters, which you obviously consider deep insights. 

I will concede I may have assumed a bit too much in my impression of what attitudes may be behind your words, but you have read far more into Brian's words, with far less justification.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Kapkao
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BobSpence1 wrote:I was

BobSpence1 wrote:
I was referring to the way you so frequently make assessments of other peoples posts which seem poorly thought-through non-sequiters, which you obviously consider deep insights.

Fairly salient save for "deep insights". It isn't insightful unless it holds a measure of truth. Every now and then, it does.

You've got me there, though. Wow

 

Quote:
I will concede I may have assumed a bit too much in my impression of what attitudes may be behind your words, but you have read far more into Brian's words,

Actually, I was basing it on something he said a while back, that after so many months I have misconstrued. I still find it hard to believe that he doesn't see some parallel between Hitchens and himself.

Quote:
with far less justification.

"Silly" posts require justification? Odd. Actually, I'm being pedantic. I read a great deal into what others say, and you aren't the first to bring it up. You will likely not be the last.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Quote: I still find it hard

Quote:
I still find it hard to believe that he doesn't see some parallel between Hitchens and himself.

To borrow from Bob

Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot?

What is this supposed to mean?

You really are reading into my op more than is actually there.


 

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Hitchens is a great writer and speaker

I have been fortunate enough to hear many of Christopher Hitchen's interviews and been lucky enough to watch a couple of his debates on television. Although I have not had a chance to read all of his books, the couple that I have picked up have been great. He is a well spoken and eloquent journalist and has a very clear understanding of his subject matter. I wish him all the best in his battle with cancer.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


Kapkao
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Brian37 wrote:You really are

Brian37 wrote:

You really are reading into my op more than is actually there.

Then don't bother yourself over it. I had a hunch, it turned out wrong. No big deal. Sorry to shit on your thread the way I did, though.

 

I, myself, foresee my end in a nursing home thinking the people who take care of me are actually in a deep conspiracy against me. And one day I get a little woozy, and my last thoughts are "they must have drugged my last meal".

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)