Dear Religion: We are kicking your ass. Reason will prevail.

Sapient
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Dear Religion: We are kicking your ass. Reason will prevail.

A new study shows people of "no religion" on the rise and all but two states have decreases in the amount of people labeling themselves Christian.

See the results here: http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-03-09-ARIS-faith-survey_N.htm

 

See the entire story here: http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-03-09-american-religion-ARIS_N.htm

Quote:

 

When it comes to religion, the USA is now land of the freelancers.

The percentage. of people who call themselves in some way Christian has dropped more than 11% in a generation. The faithful have scattered out of their traditional bases: The Bible Belt is less Baptist. The Rust Belt is less Catholic. And everywhere, more people are exploring spiritual frontiers — or falling off the faith map completely.

 

 

Barry Kosmin co-researcher for the '08 study said

Quote:

 

A closer look at the "Nones" — people who said "None" when asked their religious identity — shows that this group (now 15% of Americans, up from 8% in 1990) opts out of traditional religious rites of passage:

•40% say they had no childhood religious initiation ceremony such as a baptism, christening, circumcision, bar mitzvah or naming ceremony.

•55% of those who are married had no religious ceremony.

•66% say they do not expect to have a religious funeral.

"Your parents may decide for you on baptism and your spouse has a say in your wedding, but when people talk about dying, they speak for themselves," says Kosmin.

 

Anyone who is speaking up about the flaws in religion, the absence of proof, the evil it causes, and the irrational holes it leads us down deserves a huge round of applause.  Give yourself a pat on the back if you aren't indoctrinating your child, and call your parents to thank them if they didn't indoctrinate you!

 

- Brian Sapient


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 Now if we can get better

 Now if we can get better organized.. Maybe we can change the tide in worldwide politics and have a fighting chance at peace.. 

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As I've been saying for a

As I've been saying for a few years now, the recent louder voices from the religious right is a reaction to the increase in non-religious (read atheist) people. I know it's frustrating that we face such obnoxious and vocal opponents, just remember it's a sign we're winning! As they say, pain is just weakness leaving the body. So too is the hyper-religious movement an indication that religion is leaving the populace as a whole.

The coming decades will be painful, as it will seem that religion is becoming more intrusive. But it is nothing more than an increasingly vocal response from a shrinking minority.

I believe that we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the mind disease called religion. There is still work to be done so that the disease does not regain a foothold, but we have made amazing strides.

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I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.
- Douglas Adams, Salmon of Doubt


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I think we should be careful

I think we should be careful with not equating religion going down, with reason prevailing.

 

 

 

 


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:I think

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I think we should be careful with not equating religion going down, with reason prevailing.

I could've predicted you would say something like that.  You can be careful if you want.  I however dedicated the last 10 years of my life to this cause, and many times I've heard Christians argue (even atheists argue) that there is no point, that it's not doing anything.  So forgive me if I make a dramatic point in an attempt to keep the fire lit under the asses of anyone who dedicates a portion of their life to this cause.

 

Glossary:

this cause: helping religious people abandon their faith

Captain Pineapple: a person who believed in a God when joining this site

 

 

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If anyone had told me that

If anyone had told me that Oklahoma would have an atheist billboard 10 years ago, I would have called them nuts.

Most of us here, especially Sapient are well aware that religion isn't going anywhere anytime soon. But things have changed and are changing. I have seen the difference as to how atheists were treated 10 years ago vs today. I have seen how small and unheard the atheist voice was 10 years ago, as compared to thousands of atheist websites, authors like Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens with books on the best seller list.

We are not going to convince all 6 billion people that their superstitions are placebos, but we can at least challenge them and challenge religious politics to minimize the damage religion can do. I am thrilled with where we are now as compared to where our voice was as atheists 10 years ago.

I think the cat is getting out of the bag and more and more people are realizing that they don't need a church or a god to be moral.

 

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My optimism is also

My optimism is also guarded... but certainly this is better news than if the statistics read otherwise...

I see a lot of people pulling away from Sarah Palin & Glenn Beck...and their "faith" is going with them... Hopefully the populace are not the intellectual wind socks I believe them to be, and won't be swayed back so easily. But  there is a disatinct possibility that this is reactionary, and many are just searching for something else invisible that will fill the imaginitive void... I also see those that remain in religious denial re affirming their faith... the intellectual gap between theism and rationality has , in my view, grown wider...

Atheist are like the Porn industry in that if other political lobbies had our numbers, politicians would be kissing our collective asses to get our votes...

 

Still, I am smiling Smiling


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Brian37 wrote:If anyone had

Brian37 wrote:

If anyone had told me that Oklahoma would have an atheist billboard 10 years ago, I would have called them nuts.

Most of us here, especially Sapient are well aware that religion isn't going anywhere anytime soon. But things have changed and are changing. I have seen the difference as to how atheists were treated 10 years ago vs today. I have seen how small and unheard the atheist voice was 10 years ago, as compared to thousands of atheist websites, authors like Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens with books on the best seller list.

We are not going to convince all 6 billion people that their superstitions are placebos, but we can at least challenge them and challenge religious politics to minimize the damage religion can do. I am thrilled with where we are now as compared to where our voice was as atheists 10 years ago.

I think the cat is getting out of the bag and more and more people are realizing that they don't need a church or a god to be moral.

Again... seconded by me, although I'm probably going disagree with most here as to what this is a result of, and how much aggression can be justified in the name of "antitheism".

 

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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 I am pretty sure the

 

I am pretty sure the belief systems are loosing ground NOT because people become more reasonable in their thoughts.  Possessing information is NOT equal to reasonable thinking.  20 years ago, the volume of information and the diversity of information were limited. In recent years, due to the information revolution (thanks to the internet) the variety of informational channels have definitely overwhelmed religious information.  People now spend much less time dealing with religious information than they did before.  For this reason, I think, the number of people who do not need religion anymore is increasing.  It is not because people realize that religion is wrong, but more likely due to their minds being occupied by tons of other things many of which can be total garbage from the standpoint of reason. 

 

Another reason why I would not credit atheists for turning more people away from religion is a persistent failure of atheists in the US to declare their views within the american political system.  Simply, if there are so many non-believers, where are they in public offices?  I know just one, and his legitimacy was challenged based on some ancient law that an atheist can't be an elected official in that state.  A lot of troubles.

 


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100percentAtheist wrote: I

100percentAtheist wrote:

 

I am pretty sure the belief systems are loosing ground NOT because people become more reasonable in their thoughts.  Possessing information is NOT equal to reasonable thinking.  20 years ago, the volume of information and the diversity of information were limited.


And yet the most utilized sources of information are still corporate-owned and every bit as whorish as they were at the beginning of the 90s.

 

 

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


100percentAtheist
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Kapkao

Kapkao wrote:

100percentAtheist wrote:

 

I am pretty sure the belief systems are loosing ground NOT because people become more reasonable in their thoughts.  Possessing information is NOT equal to reasonable thinking.  20 years ago, the volume of information and the diversity of information were limited.

 

And yet the most utilized sources of information are still corporate-owned and every bit as whorish as they were at the beginning of the 90s.

 

 

 

Well, perhaps the corporations simply go with what bring in the most profit.  Imagine, Christianity is less profitable than Apple.   Oh, actually, smart phones... SMART phones.  I hate them and I have very limited choice between buying a total crap-phone or mega$$$ Vertu.  But people like their smart phones. Like their gods.   Why?  Because it is profitable (for someone else though), and for sure NOT because people are getting smarter or more rational buying smart phones.  


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Sapient wrote:Glossary:this

Sapient wrote:

Glossary:

this cause: helping religious people abandon their faith

Captain Pineapple: a person who believed in a God when joining this site

I lol'd

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100percentAtheist

100percentAtheist wrote:

Kapkao wrote:

100percentAtheist wrote:

 

I am pretty sure the belief systems are loosing ground NOT because people become more reasonable in their thoughts.  Possessing information is NOT equal to reasonable thinking.  20 years ago, the volume of information and the diversity of information were limited.

 

And yet the most utilized sources of information are still corporate-owned and every bit as whorish as they were at the beginning of the 90s.

 

 

 

Well, perhaps the corporations simply go with what bring in the most profit.  Imagine, Christianity is less profitable than Apple.   Oh, actually, smart phones... SMART phones.  I hate them and I have very limited choice between buying a total crap-phone or mega$$$ Vertu.  But people like their smart phones. Like their gods.   Why?  Because it is profitable (for someone else though), and for sure NOT because people are getting smarter or more rational buying smart phones.  

Touche... I agree with both you and Pineapple that lack or presence of belief is merely one in a laundry list of potential building blocks for "rationality" (or irrationality) -they do not automatically overlap.

I also find it deeply ironic that Allison was a believer when she arrived here.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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I don't mean that we should

I don't mean that we should stop trying to spread science and reason, I'm saying that a lot of people in the skeptic/rationalist movement are too optimistic, and jump to conclusions that their methods are working where I'm not really so sure that reason and skepticism is rising.

 

 

 


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I was kinda shocked to see

I was kinda shocked to see that Alabama was staying pretty average for the most part. I do think Louisiana's belief went up due to hurricanes and oil spills.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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rebecca.williamson wrote:I

rebecca.williamson wrote:

I was kinda shocked to see that Alabama was staying pretty average for the most part.

 

I'd like to file this under "judging a book by it's cover"

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Kapkao

Kapkao wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

I was kinda shocked to see that Alabama was staying pretty average for the most part.

 

I'd like to file this under "judging a book by it's cover"

Um I happen to have lived in both of those places. All over the state of alabama and in New Orleans. Don't assume since you have no idea what my outlook is on this.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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Just having this broadcasted

Just having this broadcasted on CNN and in the USA Today will more than likely get more people to express their views. There are more freethinker out there than any of us could realize. This may get a few more off the couch.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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rebecca.williamson wrote:Um

rebecca.williamson wrote:

Um I happen to have lived in both of those places. All over the state of alabama and in New Orleans. Don't assume since you have no idea what my outlook is on this.

What did I assume?

(trick question )

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Kapkao

Kapkao wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

Um I happen to have lived in both of those places. All over the state of alabama and in New Orleans. Don't assume since you have no idea what my outlook is on this.

What did I assume?

(trick question )

Trick question? Ok I'll answer. You assumed that I'm judging a book by it's cover.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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jimmy.williamson wrote:Just

jimmy.williamson wrote:
Just having this broadcasted on CNN and in the USA Today will more than likely get more people to express their views. There are more freethinker out there than any of us could realize. This may get a few more off the couch.

 

Well Jimmy, if CNN broadcasts this material on this week, I would be in real panic.  Look at the DOW index!  Smiling

They did, they have broadcasted this a year ago.  I wish we could see more changes.  

 

I think that for atheists in the US, achieving the following big milestones would be a good measure of success in the next 10 years or so:

1.  Consolidate non-believers

2.  Educate population about atheists to remove the stigma that currently comes with the word.

3.  Elect local and federal officials on the platform of reason as opposed to Christian values. 

We are at stage 1 currently. 


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rebecca.williamson

rebecca.williamson wrote:
Trick question? Ok I'll answer. You assumed that I'm judging a book by it's cover.

Although I could drag this on a bit further, I should have simply said "Ignore me, I'm being paranoid again, etc"

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Kapkao

Kapkao wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:
Trick question? Ok I'll answer. You assumed that I'm judging a book by it's cover.

Although I could drag this on a bit further, I should have simply said "Ignore me, I'm being paranoid again, etc"

I really don't see how you could drag this on any further but yeah maybe that is what you should have said. Especially considering I live in Alabama the bible belt and did so the majority of my life. So I do know what I'm talking about. Anyway, getting of subject and I really don't care to hash this out with you. Just saying I make it a habit to try and not post about things I know nothing about.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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Max Wilder wrote:As I've

Max Wilder wrote:

As I've been saying for a few years now, the recent louder voices from the religious right is a reaction to the increase in non-religious (read atheist) people. I know it's frustrating that we face such obnoxious and vocal opponents, just remember it's a sign we're winning! As they say, pain is just weakness leaving the body. So too is the hyper-religious movement an indication that religion is leaving the populace as a whole.

The coming decades will be painful, as it will seem that religion is becoming more intrusive. But it is nothing more than an increasingly vocal response from a shrinking minority.

I believe that we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the mind disease called religion. There is still work to be done so that the disease does not regain a foothold, but we have made amazing strides.

The reason why we're winning is because Christianity is crap! I stress that religion in particular because if Christianity hypothetically disappeared from America then America would be basically atheist/agnostic like it SHOULD be! America won't all of a sudden become Bahai!

If people just conducted a simple historical review of Christianity they would see it's total crap and the historical record clearly debunks it!  On top of that you ask any physicist and they'll tell you Jesus "coming back" is akin to Space Godzilla coming to earth!

It's true according to quantum physics it's possible but so are a ZILLION other supernatural stories like many of the hundreds of Native America prophecies from a 1000 different tribes as well as claims from any of the 12 classic religions in addition to many of the smaller ones plus all the other cults and other supernatural stories out there!

Christianity is dying but it's just a slow death. 

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com