Am I a hypocrite

Ken G.
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Am I a hypocrite

    I was wondering,I send $37.50 to the Southwest Indian Foundation every Thanksgiving to help feed 4 reservations and it is run by Deacon Dan,an catholic charities and $30.00 at Christmas,cause nobody is in the desert that can help them(sometimes the Air Force reserves give them a hand) some of them have no stoves and many don't have running water-plumbing.What would you do ? They do need a helping hand.  


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I've given money to

I've given money to religious charities in certain circumstances.  I'm not that hard core though, I place immediate relief of suffering above my distaste for religion.

Sometimes you don't have a choice.  I've also used community services sponsored by religious institutions, especially the Catholics.  In my rural area they perform some functions that no-one else does.

 

So for me, if I have a choice between religious and secular, I'll pick secular.  But if my choice is between nothing and something religious, I'll pick something religious every time (Well, for charities anyway.  And I suppose there are exceptions.  I wouldn't donate to a Scientologist charity unless it was life and death, for example).

 

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No way! I don't really care

No way! I don't really care if it is a religious ran thing. If it helps less fortunate people I donate. I am hard core atheist but I do believe in helping people.

edit: as long as I know that is actually what it goes for.

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Ken G.
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mellestad wrote: I wouldn't donate to a Scientologist charity...

     Right On !!! At least now I don't feel like a hypocrite.Well said my friend.

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cj
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About the only religious

About the only religious charity I will give to is Catholic Charities.  They are one of the few that will help you out even if you are not a member of the church.  And I have given in the past.  Not this last year, hopefully I will be far enough ahead next year.

I will not donate to United Way.  Ever since they took Planned Parenthood off of their list, I have consistently refused to make the which ever company I was working for 100% participating.  Yes, it has been explained to me I can specify which charity I wish all or a portion of my donation to go to.  It's the principle of the thing.

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 I have never donated in my

 I have never donated in my life.  And I do not plan to.

I am not a hypocrite.


Blake
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An atheist giving money to a

An atheist giving money to a church is not hypocritical in that respect unless said atheist speaks against giving money to Churches in any way and is giving his or herself a special exemption for no good reason, and thus presenting a double standard.

If you haven't spoken against giving money to churches, you're probably in the clear in that regard.

 

 

A Christian giving money to a hospital, on the other hand, might be problematic- if said Christian espouses certain theological views about prayer and faith healing, and believes disease is his or her god's will.

It's easy for a religious person to accidentally do something hypocritical, largely because they tend not to understand the implications of their own professed values.  It tends to be very difficult for an atheist to do anything hypocritical (with regards to those matters concerning religion/atheism) unless he or she has expressed certain values clearly and directly contradicts them- when one arrives at one's own values, one tends to understand them better than merely copying them from some convoluted source.


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A hypcrite, probably.

 

 

               Early in December I get to play Santa Clause, for the Seven 7 Sisters charity in Guyana for the third straight year; try wearing the full monty santa in 85 degree heat.  The Seven 7 Sisters supply grocery bags full of food to the elderly and poor In Cummings Lodge Guyana [ their home town] and christmass presents to over 100 children who otherwise wouldn't get any.  Each child also gets a picture sitting on Santa's lap.  Most of the recipients of the charity are of Hindu & muslim familys,  with a few [very few] christian recipients,  that's just how the neighborhood is. The Seven 7 Sisters co-ordinate exactly who is needy and who isn't through the local Imam & Pandit and their respective Mosque & Mandir.  They also clue us in on the local christians in need.  Does this make me a hypocrite? Well hell yes,  but we could not figure out the neediest without the Imam & Pandit.

 

 

               Guyanese when ever they have a party [weddings, birthdays etc.] always cook too much food for the party. The Seven 7 Sisters , when they are in town gather up the excess food and take it to certain neighborhoods in Georgetown  and hand it out to the homeless, in nifty take-out containers to boot.

 

                The Seven 7 Sisters charity is run by my wife and her 5 surviving sisters [ one died]  and the extended family;  that's  a lot of manpower involved and some of them are even religious, just not christian.  If anyone here wants to contribute money?  DON'T!! We are well off and we do just fine. Donate some money to RRS,  Brian needs it more then us.

 

 

               Here in Canada, I can easily donate to secular charity's,  so I can avoid hypocracy and still get a tax right-off,  and that nice gooy feeling inside.

              

 

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Blake wrote:it tends to be difficult for a atheist to be hypocri

 tical.    Well, I have said to the priest that was doing a block collection and I said to him "Why don't you ask the pope for a donation,he can melt down some of that gold in the Vatican,I'm sick and tired of religious people,except a very small number of them. 

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Blake
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Ken G. wrote: tical.   

Ken G. wrote:

 tical.    Well, I have said to the priest that was doing a block collection and I said to him "Why don't you ask the pope for a donation,he can melt down some of that gold in the Vatican,I'm sick and tired of religious people,except a very small number of them. 

 

Doesn't sound problematic.

 

Personally, I would have a problem donating to a religious charity, but I also have a problem paying sales tax in any country where abortion rights aren't respected; or buying things that were made in that country if there's an alternative.

Sales tax -> Police funding -> Persecute women and doctors -> Suicides and death from infection and blood loss + (worse yet) unwanted and improperly cared for children.

 

Needless to say, I'm very careful about what I put money into- so I would potentially be a hypocrite if I did support religious charities (depending on the religion and the views they espouse), but only because I'm critical of funding such abuses and anti-educational practices.

Ability to act revolves around funding, and it's the strongest voice we have.

 

I would suggest that you find a secular alternative if you can- or start one- but I won't call you a hypocrite for donating if you aren't against that kind of thing.


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Ken G. wrote:    I was

Ken G. wrote:

    I was wondering,I send $37.50 to the Southwest Indian Foundation every Thanksgiving to help feed 4 reservations and it is run by Deacon Dan,an catholic charities and $30.00 at Christmas,cause nobody is in the desert that can help them(sometimes the Air Force reserves give them a hand) some of them have no stoves and many don't have running water-plumbing.What would you do ? They do need a helping hand.  

Nope. I think there are a number of charities out there that are good in spite of their religious affiliations.

“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”


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Without a doubt there comes

Without a doubt there comes a point in our lives when labels have to be scrapped. I will not financially support religion. But I certainly wont let someone starve to death if they ask for food.

I have given money to charities knowing the people benefiting from them are religious. I also have given money to friends to help them pay bills knowing they are religious. There is nothing wrong with being compassionate to those whom we find have absurd beliefs.

All of us here would want some sort of help if we were hungry or physically hurt. There are points in our lives where being a human should come first and we can all bitch about each other's beliefs later.

 

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Brian37 wrote:I have given

Brian37 wrote:

I have given money to charities knowing the people benefiting from them are religious. I also have given money to friends to help them pay bills knowing they are religious. There is nothing wrong with being compassionate to those whom we find have absurd beliefs.

 

That's a bit of a straw man; I don't think anybody is suggesting not helping people because they hold religious beliefs.  I, for one, was talking about preferring secular charities as they don't dish out a sermon as a condition for their help.

Even those religious charities that don't lay it on very strong still have a bit of indoctrination on the side- if there is any conceivable secular option, it would seem preferable to take it rather than enhancing the power and reach of the church and boosting their PR with your hard earned money.


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Would a devout Catholic donate to an atheist charity?

Regardless of a group's ideology, humanity prevails in the end among the sane and rational. I have no doubt that most individuals here would donate to a religious charity to help those who are impoverished. Yet I am doubtful that devout theists would donate to an atheist charity group. That would be a sin in their eyes.


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We used to give thousands of

We used to give thousands of dollars away every year... Anything that tugged on our heart strings we would write a check to..... My dilligent wife decided to look into these "charities" and discovered that only a small portion of our donation was actually making its way to the "unfortunate"... essentially we were donating to wealthy individuals... no matter how pragmatic we tried to be, we couldn't help feeling like shmucks...

But we still donate to the Public Jazz station...


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@Rich/Ubuntu:  That is a

@Rich/Ubuntu:  That is a great point.  For example, if we're talking about food charities, I would pick a religious charity that gets 95 cents out of every dollar turned into actual food in bellies over a secular charity that only gets 50 cents per dollar.

http://www.charitynavigator.org/ <-- Site reviews charity efficiency, also has lists of charities if you are looking for a cause.

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1. how does donating to a

1. how does donating to a theistic charity make you a hypocrite? Oh, wait - it doesn't, and atheists themselves lament the fact that there isn't a single secular charity that use donations at 100% efficiency (like theistic charities do, in many cases)

2. if the place is that inhospitable, why are they living there to begin with?

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Kapkao wrote:1. how does

Kapkao wrote:

1. how does donating to a theistic charity make you a hypocrite? Oh, wait - it doesn't, and atheists themselves lament the fact that there isn't a single secular charity that use donations at 100% efficiency (like theistic charities do, in many cases)

2. if the place is that inhospitable, why are they living there to begin with?

 

Having grown up in Arizona, they live there because all the decent land was given to the white settlers.  The Indians got what no white person wanted.  And for many years, the Res' were cheated out of mining and grazing revenues by the US government.  So the infrastructure is poor at best, and there was little money for local education.  Why do they stay?  Tradition, family, the effects of family breakup (forced boarding school attendance early in the last century), and the genetic propensity to alcoholism.

(Don't go there.  Genetic propensity need not mean every one with the gene will be alcoholic.  It just means those with the gene have a harder fight to not get addicted or to get off the sauce once on.)

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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Good point. I should have

Good point. I should have rephrased "why do they stay"..

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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kapkao wrote:why are they living there to begin with ?

     You make it sound like they have a choice,well they don't! This is a very quick history of "broken treaties". The four corners of the USA was chosen for three of the tribes,the Pueblo Indians have always lived in the desert,but  now with some Zuni Indians that live with them (they totally lost their land to Manifest Destiny) the Ute Indians come from California around what we call Malibu,they were Mountain Indians,but the great white chief in Washington had them moved to the desert,cause the white chief wanted their land for the expansion of the USA.then you got the Hopi tribe also from California,and then the Navajo Indians which was once spread along the northwest territorials from Canada down to California and over to New Mexico area.As the USA expanded more and more tribes lost their land base,due to mining for Gold,Silver,Coal, and then Uranium after WWII, Indians were moved where they would not be in the way of the white-man.

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Give away, Ken.

 

Morality takes precedence over religion.

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Ken G. wrote:     You

Ken G. wrote:

     You make it sound like they have a choice

They do, and little you've said has refuted that.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


Ken G.
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Kapkao wrote: They do,and little you've said has refuted that.

     They do ! Well then,Forgive me for being so stupid,how naive of me. O'well .

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Kapkao
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Ken G. wrote:     They

Ken G. wrote:

     They do ! Well then,Forgive me for being so stupid,how naive of me. O'well .

BTW;

I'm well aware of the atrocities and genocide committed under the banner of "Manifest Destiny", and even before it.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)