Burn a copy of the Qur'an

julio
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Burn a copy of the Qur'an

This way to BURN A COPY OF THE QUR'AN is much easier, without troubling anybody: Get yourself the necessary items: Gasoline, matches, an old laptop, and a big backyard. Next, download a copy of the holy book. Then go to your backyard and destroy your computer by fire! Goodbye holy scriptures! [Nowadays it is fashion to burn national flags. What's the problem with burning computers with the Qur'an downloaded?]

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That would have a lot of

That would have a lot of appeal to some computer users.


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Wouldn't deleting the

Wouldn't deleting the program be just a as good, and not unharmful to the environment?


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Ubuntu is right

 

I was thinking of chucking a Flash drive into a fire but just deleting the whole silly file is so much easier.

Oo-er. Don't tell anyone. It's ever so politically incorrect.

 

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Yes, your proposition is

Yes, your proposition is much better than mine: Better copy the holy book to a cheap flash drive and chuck it into the flames, then. No mess, no fuss, no nothing, no offense to any Muslim. Do kindly, please, include a copy or two or the Bible. Kill two birds with one stone.

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ubuntuAnyone wrote:Freedom

ubuntuAnyone wrote:

Freedom of speech is a good thing, but it can be abused.

This guy wants to hold a bonfire burning Korans....

If you're going to burn holy books, why not include the Pali Canon, Vedas, Sutras, Book or Mormon, or other holy books?

As I have said on other websites about this issue it is not that he is doing it. Most Christians will shake their fists at Mary depicted in elephant dung instead of strapping bombs to themselves.

When I first caught this story a couple weeks ago, the Pastor was saying(with indirect words) that his Jesus was the one true son of god and that Islam was evil and that the world needed to obey his god.

He has since back peddled and is now saying that he is standing up to tyranny. BULLSHIT. This Pastor believes that it is a war between Jesus and Islam and Jesus will win.

He is doing it out of hate of outsiders. He is not protesting like the Danish Cartoonist criticizing the violent Muslims. This Pastor fears his "Christian Nation" propaganda isn't working anymore and fears pluralism.

So why do we let this jackass do this? Because if we as a society don't let dicks be dicks and create blasphemy laws, we can set up a government that can have the ability to censor something we ourselves might want to criticize.

If he was doing it to say, "I will not bow to tyranny", I would be for it. But this Pastor isn't doing that, he hates the fact that the world is not bowing to his god and he doesn't like the competition.

 

 

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Koran Burning....

Freedom of speech is a good thing, but it can be abused.

This guy wants to hold a bonfire burning Korans....

If you're going to burn holy books, why not include the Pali Canon, Vedas, Sutras, Book or Mormon, or other holy books?

“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”


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I am for burning holy books

I am for burning holy books - symbolically - at a world day established by the UN.
Do it once a year in front of its main gate.
Then, remove the ashes from this planet.
All done with order and in a controlled fashion; no too excitement.
All to remember the MILLIONS of innocent victims of religious atrocities and brutal crimes.
Burn one sample of the Qur'an and the Bible, in the main.
Annually, please.
For the betterment of humankind.

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Whenever one of my muslim

Whenever one of my muslim friends gets all selfrighteously indignant about stuff like this, I just ask them where all that muslim rage was during the Balkan war, when muslims were being murdered by the thousands. Where was all the protest then ?

(And when I'm feeling particularly mean, I'll also ask them if they can remember who ended that war)


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This guy doesn't like books

This guy doesn't like books in general. Apparently he has an issue in Germany for trading on a fake Ph.D.

   http://www.politicususa.com/en/sleazy-past-terry-jones

Sorry for the mso bs - I saw this first in my email.

Mod edit: Fixed it. 

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ubuntuAnyone wrote:Freedom

ubuntuAnyone wrote:

Freedom of speech is a good thing, but it can be abused.

This guy wants to hold a bonfire burning Korans....

If you're going to burn holy books, why not include the Pali Canon, Vedas, Sutras, Book or Mormon, or other holy books?

LOL..that's because those other religions were NOT the motivation for a MASSIVE terrorist attack! The 9/11 hijackers actually said "Allah Akbar" as they crashed the planes into the WTC and they all carried copies of the Koran with them their entire lives.

If the FL pastor stops it now then he is only kowtowing to the terrorists and the terrorists will simply have another victory over us! As NYC mayor Mike Bloomberg said he has a constitutional right to do it.

 

 

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Perplexed!

 

 

 

                    I can see several sides of this, but I can only stay with one.  Crazy Jones wants to promo his church  by  showing off his hatreds; such is the christianity in the 21st century.

 

 

                    Free speach is importent and I always support it along with free expression.  As for One religion irritating the living crap out of another religion: I can certainly go along with that.

 

 

                     Yet I can NOT find it in my sense of morality to agree with BOOK BURNING; under any conditions,  it is nothing more then an acknowledgement to ignorence over commen sense.  If you do not like a book;  fine with me  -  don't touch it, read it or have anything to do with it. but you do not have the right to decide for others.

 

 

                     If you want to claim the protest is just symbolic;  then just remember it is also symbolic of regressive ignorence,  impressment of ones ideas over another, with no option or choise for you nor anyone else.

 

 

                    Book burning is obscene to anyone with a brain,  the symbolisim is obscene, it means simply "my ideas are so great we don't need any other ", that attitude is obscene. 

 

 

                    No matter how much I disagree with any book or it's ideas, I can never agree to burning nor distroying any book under any conditions.

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@Jeffrick:  I agree 100% 

@Jeffrick:  I agree 100%

 

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Jeffrick

Jeffrick wrote:

 

 

 

                    I can see several sides of this, but I can only stay with one.  Crazy Jones wants to promo his church  by  showing off his hatreds; such is the christianity in the 21st century.

 

 

                    Free speach is importent and I always support it along with free expression.  As for One religion irritating the living crap out of another religion: I can certainly go along with that.

 

 

                     Yet I can NOT find it in my sense of morality to agree with BOOK BURNING; under any conditions,  it is nothing more then an acknowledgement to ignorence over commen sense.  If you do not like a book;  fine with me  -  don't touch it, read it or have anything to do with it. but you do not have the right to decide for others.

 

 

                     If you want to claim the protest is just symbolic;  then just remember it is also symbolic of regressive ignorence,  impressment of ones ideas over another, with no option or choise for you nor anyone else.

 

 

                    Book burning is obscene to anyone with a brain,  the symbolisim is obscene, it means simply "my ideas are so great we don't need any other ", that attitude is obscene. 

 

 

                    No matter how much I disagree with any book or it's ideas, I can never agree to burning nor distroying any book under any conditions.

If it were a cross or a flag would you say the same?

Again, IT depends on WHY it is being done, not that it is being  done.

Many movies have depicted cross burning as part of the history of bigotry against blacks.

I would never suggest that books be banned or any attempt to outlaw their printing. But burning anything as part of a protest is a Constitutionally protected right, as it should be.

I do think people should read all holy books. But I also think we in the west also have a right to say fuck you to zealots who do want to kill us and zealots who if given the chance would institute a fascist state. I am all for the desicration of ANY symbol of fascism. The Koran itself is merely a book, an object, it is not a person. If I were to burn one, it would not be hate of all Muslims, but in a protest to people like Bin Ladin and Iran's PM.

THERE is a distinction. If Muslims don't want their Koran viewed as a symbol of fascism, then they need to turn to their own and tell the assholes in their bunch not to kill people merely because someone picked on their god.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Don't you think

Don't you think Atheists and Free Thinkers are free to do what we all wish? the beauty of who we are shackles us not to any general belief or view, we are individuals and capable of expression as a solo or in groups if we choose. i say if you want to avoid a holy book then do so, if you want to burn it go ahead, all i will add is i would read the entire thing first tho just so you know what your really destroying, that would be where the god squads have a hazy mist


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I agree with

 

 

Brian, Jeffrick and Melles. The books shouldn't be burnt. Islam still shits me though. And I'm pleased the world is paying attention to this faith and questioning it. Islam is malleable and perhaps all this flummary will lead to a softening over time. Wouldn't it be nice to have a vocal moderate islamic voice in the world? Maybe this will happen one day. I think it's a problem when cartoonists are threatened with death, when authors are in fear of their lives for questioning imaginary characters in other people's books.

 

P.S. I just downloaded the Koran and deleted it. Hell awaits me.  

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Well, Pastor Jones wimped

Well, Pastor Jones wimped out today, so it is probably a moot point.

 

Even so, my brother asked me earlier what I thought of the guy.  My reply was that I did not think that he likely owned enough thermate to do the job correctly.

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averagebear wrote:Don't you

averagebear wrote:

Don't you think Atheists and Free Thinkers are free to do what we all wish? the beauty of who we are shackles us not to any general belief or view, we are individuals and capable of expression as a solo or in groups if we choose. i say if you want to avoid a holy book then do so, if you want to burn it go ahead, all i will add is i would read the entire thing first tho just so you know what your really destroying, that would be where the god squads have a hazy mist

I'm not saying he can't, I'm saying it is a stupid, pointless thing to do...especially given the context of the entire mosque thing which I also think is stupid and pointless, given the context of *that* thing.

So I think it is a stupid, ignorant, hypocritical, blatantly hateful reaction to an overblown political cluster-fuck.

 

If some college kids or some skeptics or an artist wants to burn some holy books to make a point, fine.  But when a fundy evangelical church wants to burn a bunch of Islam holy books to protest a civics center two blocks from ground zero, all I can do is ridicule the stupidity of everyone involved.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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Another safe way to "offend"

Another safe way to "offend" the holy Qur'an:
Get it downloaded to a flash drive, and then go to a railway track,
deposit it carefully on a track and wait for the train to go past at 100 Km/h!
Gone to smithereens.
Not even Allah had time to see what happened!

No gods with indirect messages to me.


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The guy is burning the Koran

The guy is burning the Koran because he believes that an equally stupid book (the bible) is more true or somehow more important than the Koran. This is doing it for the wrong reasons, now if he weren't a religious half wit and he was doing it to demonstrate free speech then I would say more power to him. If it where in the vain of "Everybody draw mouhamed day," then I would think it's a good idea. But it really a case of the pot calling the kettle black.


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FYI guys, just heard on the

FYI guys, just heard on the news that fuckwad homophobe Fred Phelps burnt a Koran on a DC street yesterday.

Seems that even in his own bigotry this dip shit can't come up with an original idea.

 

 

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Jeffrick

Jeffrick wrote:

 

 

 

                    I can see several sides of this, but I can only stay with one.  Crazy Jones wants to promo his church  by  showing off his hatreds; such is the christianity in the 21st century.

 

 

                    Free speach is importent and I always support it along with free expression.  As for One religion irritating the living crap out of another religion: I can certainly go along with that.

 

 

                     Yet I can NOT find it in my sense of morality to agree with BOOK BURNING; under any conditions,  it is nothing more then an acknowledgement to ignorence over commen sense.  If you do not like a book;  fine with me  -  don't touch it, read it or have anything to do with it. but you do not have the right to decide for others.

 

 

                     If you want to claim the protest is just symbolic;  then just remember it is also symbolic of regressive ignorence,  impressment of ones ideas over another, with no option or choise for you nor anyone else.

 

 

                    Book burning is obscene to anyone with a brain,  the symbolisim is obscene, it means simply "my ideas are so great we don't need any other ", that attitude is obscene. 

 

 

                    No matter how much I disagree with any book or it's ideas, I can never agree to burning nor distroying any book under any conditions.

 

Other than the wedding album from my first marriage, I totally agree...


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Rich Woods wrote:Jeffrick

Rich Woods wrote:

Jeffrick wrote:

 

 

 

                    I can see several sides of this, but I can only stay with one.  Crazy Jones wants to promo his church  by  showing off his hatreds; such is the christianity in the 21st century.

 

 

                    Free speach is importent and I always support it along with free expression.  As for One religion irritating the living crap out of another religion: I can certainly go along with that.

 

 

                     Yet I can NOT find it in my sense of morality to agree with BOOK BURNING; under any conditions,  it is nothing more then an acknowledgement to ignorence over commen sense.  If you do not like a book;  fine with me  -  don't touch it, read it or have anything to do with it. but you do not have the right to decide for others.

 

 

                     If you want to claim the protest is just symbolic;  then just remember it is also symbolic of regressive ignorence,  impressment of ones ideas over another, with no option or choise for you nor anyone else.

 

 

                    Book burning is obscene to anyone with a brain,  the symbolisim is obscene, it means simply "my ideas are so great we don't need any other ", that attitude is obscene. 

 

 

                    No matter how much I disagree with any book or it's ideas, I can never agree to burning nor distroying any book under any conditions.

 

Other than the wedding album from my first marriage, I totally agree...

So if Hollywood makes a movie about Hitler and the actors who play Nazi's burn books, we shouldn't do it?

So when Hollywood makes movies about 1950s rock stars and depicts right wing Christian nuts burning their records, we shouldn't do it?

I get the sentiment. I do. I was horrified by the Taliban blowing up the Buddhist statues and if I could have cut their nuts off for doing such, I would have.

But part of being a free society is putting up with dicks being dicks. We cannot become a politically correct society where our government gets to decide what is or is not offensive otherwise we risk, as individuals, losing our own right to say or do something that someone else might find offensive.

If we want the east to get with the program and move into the 21st century, then we need to show them that we don't kill Muslims even if some nuts here burn a Koran.

I find it hypocritical of some atheists who rightfully blaspheme the absurd concept of an invisible being to side with political correctness. I think some here in their good intent do not understand that because we are outnumbered insisting on "hate speech" laws WILL bite you in the ass.

The way to end bigotry is not to oppress someone who offends you, but to use the same open market of speech to counter what they say.

The ability to protest, even in the most offensive manor, has to be as protected as much as the ability to paint pictures of kittens and apple pie.

Freud "The first person to hurl an insult instead of a stone, started civilization".

A society that cannot allow it's citizens to bitch about each other is not one I want to live in.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Quote:Book burning is

Quote:
Book burning is obscene to anyone with a brain,

IN WHAT CONTEXT?

Out of ignorance and hate, I would agree. As convoluted as holy books are and the fact that they should be treated like the myths they really are, I would not burn one merely because I find the concept of an invisible brain absurd. I DO think holy books should be kept around AND READ. Much like we keep the pyramids around but no longer believe in Ra.

But I damn sure will not be intimidated by some nutcase quoting a Bible or Koran and use it to justify the oppression and physical harm to others. IN THAT CONTEXT symbolically only to those people I would burn their book.

I would have no problem, for example burning a copy of the bible in front of Fred Phelps, in the context to say ONLY TO PEOPLE LIKE HIM, "If this is the god you believe in you homophobic dick wad, FUCK YOUR GOD"

THAT is not the same as saying, "We should burn all bibles and never print them and never let anyone read them". I will never be for that kind of censorship.

And again, the point in doing such in my case would NOT be out of bigotry, but to demonstrate the insecurity of Phelp's personal belief if he acted out in violence. What kind of god does one believe in if it is worried about merely being picked on when the world has much bigger problems?

The Irony is that the FLA pastor, if not himself, there ARE Christians who are capable of the same type of childish gang tribalism and would react in violence if offended in the same manor.

If one is able to condemn homosexuality through the bible and condemn and even attack abortion clinics and base it on the bible, I am quite sure there are Christians who would beat you up or kill you for burning a bible.

I can think of no better protest to their childish protection of ego, and take their book and show them how insecure they are.

BURNING A BOOK? Again, in what context?

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Rich Woods

Brian37 wrote:

Rich Woods wrote:

Jeffrick wrote:

 

 

 

                    I can see several sides of this, but I can only stay with one.  Crazy Jones wants to promo his church  by  showing off his hatreds; such is the christianity in the 21st century.

 

 

                    Free speach is importent and I always support it along with free expression.  As for One religion irritating the living crap out of another religion: I can certainly go along with that.

 

 

                     Yet I can NOT find it in my sense of morality to agree with BOOK BURNING; under any conditions,  it is nothing more then an acknowledgement to ignorence over commen sense.  If you do not like a book;  fine with me  -  don't touch it, read it or have anything to do with it. but you do not have the right to decide for others.

 

 

                     If you want to claim the protest is just symbolic;  then just remember it is also symbolic of regressive ignorence,  impressment of ones ideas over another, with no option or choise for you nor anyone else.

 

 

                    Book burning is obscene to anyone with a brain,  the symbolisim is obscene, it means simply "my ideas are so great we don't need any other ", that attitude is obscene. 

 

 

                    No matter how much I disagree with any book or it's ideas, I can never agree to burning nor distroying any book under any conditions.

 

Other than the wedding album from my first marriage, I totally agree...

So if Hollywood makes a movie about Hitler and the actors who play Nazi's burn books, we shouldn't do it?

So when Hollywood makes movies about 1950s rock stars and depicts right wing Christian nuts burning their records, we shouldn't do it?

I get the sentiment. I do. I was horrified by the Taliban blowing up the Buddhist statues and if I could have cut their nuts off for doing such, I would have.

But part of being a free society is putting up with dicks being dicks. We cannot become a politically correct society where our government gets to decide what is or is not offensive otherwise we risk, as individuals, losing our own right to say or do something that someone else might find offensive.

If we want the east to get with the program and move into the 21st century, then we need to show them that we don't kill Muslims even if some nuts here burn a Koran.

I find it hypocritical of some atheists who rightfully blaspheme the absurd concept of an invisible being to side with political correctness. I think some here in their good intent do not understand that because we are outnumbered insisting on "hate speech" laws WILL bite you in the ass.

The way to end bigotry is not to oppress someone who offends you, but to use the same open market of speech to counter what they say.

The ability to protest, even in the most offensive manor, has to be as protected as much as the ability to paint pictures of kittens and apple pie.

Freud "The first person to hurl an insult instead of a stone, started civilization".

A society that cannot allow it's citizens to bitch about each other is not one I want to live in.

 

 

Brian... Take a deep breath.... release.... now inhale again... hold it... think of puppies... Now release again.... Good.

I don't think Jeffrick or I were  making any attempts to deny this guy his rights... or even imply that anyone should step in and stop him.... We were merely saying that Burning books is an ignorant, and in this case particularly self promotionally douche bag move... I don't think anyone has ever acussed me of being politically correct before... As you so eloquently put it... I Just wanted to acknowledge that Rev jones is indeed a " Dick being a Dick"

Hell... we're more offended at someone's ideas being burned than we are at the attack on religion... I wouldn't exactly call that "politically Correct"...

I happen to agree with everything you countered with... Maybe in this medium you and I are reading the same words and interperting something entirely diferent. ... As far as depicting book burnings in film... Do  you and I really need to get into a long, boring, drawn out discussion on a messageboard about the differences between *actual* bigoted, fear inspired reactionary book burnings and exposing said ignorance on celluloid?

I think that Rev Jones has every right to burn the Koran... The 1st ammedment grants him the right to free speech, it does not grant *ME* the right to not be offended... I just reserve the right to call his motives into question...

 A good portion of what I do is advocating for first ammedment rights... I even go so far as to claim that the free market should determine one's place in it, and when special interest groups interfere with free speach that *they* have deemed to be offensive, by threatening advertisers, or political extortion... they are circumventing the 1st ammendment.... I have written volumes defending Don Imus against the gangster Al Sharpton.... so I would *NEVER* be so duplicitous as to want to censor this asshole... 

If I somehow gave the impression that I advocated for Rev Jones' right to be a public shit-Dick be taken away... well then I sincerely apologize....


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Brian37 wrote:Rich Woods

Brian37 wrote:

Rich Woods wrote:

Jeffrick wrote:

 

 

 

                    I can see several sides of this, but I can only stay with one.  Crazy Jones wants to promo his church  by  showing off his hatreds; such is the christianity in the 21st century.

 

 

                    Free speach is importent and I always support it along with free expression.  As for One religion irritating the living crap out of another religion: I can certainly go along with that.

 

 

                     Yet I can NOT find it in my sense of morality to agree with BOOK BURNING; under any conditions,  it is nothing more then an acknowledgement to ignorence over commen sense.  If you do not like a book;  fine with me  -  don't touch it, read it or have anything to do with it. but you do not have the right to decide for others.

 

 

                     If you want to claim the protest is just symbolic;  then just remember it is also symbolic of regressive ignorence,  impressment of ones ideas over another, with no option or choise for you nor anyone else.

 

 

                    Book burning is obscene to anyone with a brain,  the symbolisim is obscene, it means simply "my ideas are so great we don't need any other ", that attitude is obscene. 

 

 

                    No matter how much I disagree with any book or it's ideas, I can never agree to burning nor distroying any book under any conditions.

 

Other than the wedding album from my first marriage, I totally agree...

So if Hollywood makes a movie about Hitler and the actors who play Nazi's burn books, we shouldn't do it?

So when Hollywood makes movies about 1950s rock stars and depicts right wing Christian nuts burning their records, we shouldn't do it?

I get the sentiment. I do. I was horrified by the Taliban blowing up the Buddhist statues and if I could have cut their nuts off for doing such, I would have.

But part of being a free society is putting up with dicks being dicks. We cannot become a politically correct society where our government gets to decide what is or is not offensive otherwise we risk, as individuals, losing our own right to say or do something that someone else might find offensive.

If we want the east to get with the program and move into the 21st century, then we need to show them that we don't kill Muslims even if some nuts here burn a Koran.

I find it hypocritical of some atheists who rightfully blaspheme the absurd concept of an invisible being to side with political correctness. I think some here in their good intent do not understand that because we are outnumbered insisting on "hate speech" laws WILL bite you in the ass.

The way to end bigotry is not to oppress someone who offends you, but to use the same open market of speech to counter what they say.

The ability to protest, even in the most offensive manor, has to be as protected as much as the ability to paint pictures of kittens and apple pie.

Freud "The first person to hurl an insult instead of a stone, started civilization".

A society that cannot allow it's citizens to bitch about each other is not one I want to live in.

 

No-one said anything should be illegal.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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From another angle,

From another angle, then:
Why is burning holy books criminal or offensive,
while crushing a laptop with those holy book download is not?!...

No gods with indirect messages to me.


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julio wrote:From another

julio wrote:
From another angle, then: Why is burning holy books criminal or offensive, while crushing a laptop with those holy book download is not?!...

there are some that would care about the laptop being destroyed for the e-book's sake. Me, I'd wonder why you're destroying a perfectly good laptop - just give me the damn thing ( I'd like one).

In general, I think that destroying something that people care about throws up a huge "Fuck You" to those people for no good reason. I don't think that anyone has that right.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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Here is a fairly rational,

Here is a fairly rational, lucid article... I think what many are trying to convey is that we are as dissapointed about the state of affairs as anything else... it's like we have become a nation of compounding stupidity... It's less about this particular incident than it is the pervasive lack of reason we are inundated with constantly....

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-09-10/how-pastor-terry-jones-hijacked-911/?cid=hp:mainpromo2

 


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jcgadfly wrote:julio

jcgadfly wrote:

julio wrote:
From another angle, then: Why is burning holy books criminal or offensive, while crushing a laptop with those holy book download is not?!...

there are some that would care about the laptop being destroyed for the e-book's sake. Me, I'd wonder why you're destroying a perfectly good laptop - just give me the damn thing ( I'd like one).

In general, I think that destroying something that people care about throws up a huge "Fuck You" to those people for no good reason. I don't think that anyone has that right.

In all seriousness, I am glad you had no hand in writing our Constitution.

I care about Dawkins and his book "The God Delusion", but if some ass wipe wants to burn a copy of it, and they bought and own it, and they are not violating any safety codes, THEY CAN. EVERYONE has the right to be a dick, even if I don't like what they are doing. If they are not advocating violence or acting out in violence and merely pissing me off, there is no crime in pissing someone off. If I want the right to bitch about something, I have to give that same right to my detractors, no matter how offensive I might find it.

You fail to understand that without that ability to offend others you set yourself up to be silenced yourself.

I think it is very rational to say "FUCK YOU" to people with dictatorial fascist attitudes. Hitler cared about his chosen people and cared about his Nazi symbols and would have had you and I killed for even questioning him. I am glad the western world decided to say "FUCK YOU" to the things Hitler cared about.

Do you understand that in many parts of the Muslim  middle east, even without cussing on this site, the mere suggestion that Allah doesn't exist gets this site banned. You should feel lucky that you live in a society where you cannot be arrested for blasphemy.

I have every right to offend whomever I want in a free society as much as they have the right to offend me. What no human should have the right to do is harm someone else merely because they got their feelings hurt. If all humans had to worry about was a "fuck you" and not bullets, we'd all be better off.

I do have the right to say "fuck you" to anything, even if I have no good reason. And so should every citizen in a free society. THAT is what makes us civil. The ability to not resort to violence when we hear things we don't like.

North Korea and Iran are examples of states that demand that "what they care about" doesn't get offended. IN North Korea, it is the state and party that you cannot offend or say "fuck you" to. In Iran it is the Shiite Allah you can't say "fuck you" to. And the penalty can be prison or death.

I'd rather live here where some asshole(not all) Christian can claim I will burn in hell, where I can in turn say "fuck your god" than to live under a government that tells us what to think.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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julio wrote:From another

julio wrote:
From another angle, then: Why is burning holy books criminal or offensive, while crushing a laptop with those holy book download is not?!...

In free societies things can be offensive but perfectly legal, otherwise this site, if some Christians had their way, would be banned an Sapient arrested.

I find flag burning offensive, but I'll defend it to the death. Because the day it becomes a taboo via force of law is the day fascism is born and that would be the day I would burn one.

NO ONE has the right to harm someone merely because they got their feelings hurt, not me, not you, not anyone. Fascism is born out of the idea that taboos are the way to keep peace. Civility is accepting that your neighbor is not a clone of you, even when you don't like them or what they do or say. The only common ground humans have is being free from physical harm.

The god/s of Abraham are all about taboos and demanding their fans protect them from getting their feelings hurt and such a deity is one worthy of condemnation and ridicule at every turn, just like Kim Jong Ill. That is not to say every religious person views their god/s this way, just that those with "obey me or else and don't offend me" believers DO deserve a "fuck you" if they are willing to use violence because I picked on their god.

 

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Brian37 wrote:jcgadfly

Brian37 wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

julio wrote:
From another angle, then: Why is burning holy books criminal or offensive, while crushing a laptop with those holy book download is not?!...

there are some that would care about the laptop being destroyed for the e-book's sake. Me, I'd wonder why you're destroying a perfectly good laptop - just give me the damn thing ( I'd like one).

In general, I think that destroying something that people care about throws up a huge "Fuck You" to those people for no good reason. I don't think that anyone has that right.

In all seriousness, I am glad you had no hand in writing our Constitution.

I care about Dawkins and his book "The God Delusion", but if some ass wipe wants to burn a copy of it, and they bought and own it, and they are not violating any safety codes, THEY CAN. EVERYONE has the right to be a dick, even if I don't like what they are doing. If they are not advocating violence or acting out in violence and merely pissing me off, there is no crime in pissing someone off. If I want the right to bitch about something, I have to give that same right to my detractors, no matter how offensive I might find it.

You fail to understand that without that ability to offend others you set yourself up to be silenced yourself.

I think it is very rational to say "FUCK YOU" to people with dictatorial fascist attitudes. Hitler cared about his chosen people and cared about his Nazi symbols and would have had you and I killed for even questioning him. I am glad the western world decided to say "FUCK YOU" to the things Hitler cared about.

Do you understand that in many parts of the Muslim  middle east, even without cussing on this site, the mere suggestion that Allah doesn't exist gets this site banned. You should feel lucky that you live in a society where you cannot be arrested for blasphemy.

I have every right to offend whomever I want in a free society as much as they have the right to offend me. What no human should have the right to do is harm someone else merely because they got their feelings hurt. If all humans had to worry about was a "fuck you" and not bullets, we'd all be better off.

I do have the right to say "fuck you" to anything, even if I have no good reason. And so should every citizen in a free society. THAT is what makes us civil. The ability to not resort to violence when we hear things we don't like.

North Korea and Iran are examples of states that demand that "what they care about" doesn't get offended. IN North Korea, it is the state and party that you cannot offend or say "fuck you" to. In Iran it is the Shiite Allah you can't say "fuck you" to. And the penalty can be prison or death.

I'd rather live here where some asshole(not all) Christian can claim I will burn in hell, where I can in turn say "fuck your god" than to live under a government that tells us what to think.

I don't want to outlaw free expression either.

He asked "Why do people react the way they do when their holy book is burned?" I gave an answer that made sense to me as to why that was.

I said "I don't think it's right to wave a big "Fuck You" at people". I didn't say I wanted it to be illegal. It's just something that I won't do.

If you want to, that's your choice. Just don't come to me for help if you find yourself on the wrong side of an ass-whooping you started.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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Quote:I said "I don't think

Quote:
I said "I don't think it's right to wave a big "Fuck You" at people". I didn't say I wanted it to be illegal. It's just something that I won't do.

Fair enough. I won't burn a Koran either even though I find all invisible god claims absurd and most certainly I would not leave any fellow citizen bleeding in the street merely because I find their claims absurd.

BUT, if some dickhead threatens me with violence and quotes a holy book, damn right I would burn their book.

I simply get a lip twitch when people convey terms of absolutes. I agree with you and your above statement in that context.

I won't do that myself either because I have never run into people who threaten me with violence. But their book doesn't deserve respect simply because they don't want me blaspheming their book or their beliefs.

I value rule of law and civility especially when I am offended by something or offending someone else. That does not mean that because it should be legally protected, that I will do it automatically simply because I have the right. CONTEXT for me would determine if I do something like that or not.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Quote:I said

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
I said "I don't think it's right to wave a big "Fuck You" at people". I didn't say I wanted it to be illegal. It's just something that I won't do.

Fair enough. I won't burn a Koran either even though I find all invisible god claims absurd and most certainly I would not leave any fellow citizen bleeding in the street merely because I find their claims absurd.

BUT, if some dickhead threatens me with violence and quotes a holy book, damn right I would burn their book.

I simply get a lip twitch when people convey terms of absolutes. I agree with you and your above statement in that context.

I won't do that myself either because I have never run into people who threaten me with violence. But their book doesn't deserve respect simply because they don't want me blaspheming their book or their beliefs.

I value rule of law and civility especially when I am offended by something or offending someone else. That does not mean that because it should be legally protected, that I will do it automatically simply because I have the right. CONTEXT for me would determine if I do something like that or not.

 

It depends on the threat. If it's solely verbal to me, I'd probably leave it alone. If he threatened my family (even verbally) or me physically, there is a possibility I'd shove his holy book into his rectum before I lit it.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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Quote:Brian... Take a deep


Quote:
Brian... Take a deep breath.... release.... now inhale again... hold it... think of puppies... Now release again.... Good.

NO YOU CANT STOP ME! (FOAMING AT THE MOUTH)

I have an axe, I am roaming around a mountain resort and have just put the axe through a door, "Here's Johny!"

(note to reader: find elephant tranquilizer gun and take aim)

I know, I am serious about debate but this is just venting for me. FYI I think of kittens, not puppies. (breathing deeply now..........)

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Quote:Brian...

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
Brian... Take a deep breath.... release.... now inhale again... hold it... think of puppies... Now release again.... Good.

NO YOU CANT STOP ME! (FOAMING AT THE MOUTH)

I have an axe, I am roaming around a mountain resort and have just put the axe through a door, "Here's Johny!"

(note to reader: find elephant tranquilizer gun and take aim)

I know, I am serious about debate but this is just venting for me. FYI I think of kittens, not puppies. (breathing deeply now..........)

Venting often keeps people from doing truly stupid crap. Vent away.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

 

Quote:
Brian... Take a deep breath.... release.... now inhale again... hold it... think of puppies... Now release again.... Good.

NO YOU CANT STOP ME! (FOAMING AT THE MOUTH)

I have an axe, I am roaming around a mountain resort and have just put the axe through a door, "Here's Johny!"

(note to reader: find elephant tranquilizer gun and take aim)

I know, I am serious about debate but this is just venting for me. FYI I think of kittens, not puppies. (breathing deeply now..........)

 

Glad you took it in the spirit in which it was meant... 1st beer, on me.


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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

 

Quote:
Brian... Take a deep breath.... release.... now inhale again... hold it... think of puppies... Now release again.... Good.

NO YOU CANT STOP ME! (FOAMING AT THE MOUTH)

I have an axe, I am roaming around a mountain resort and have just put the axe through a door, "Here's Johny!"

(note to reader: find elephant tranquilizer gun and take aim)

I know, I am serious about debate but this is just venting for me. FYI I think of kittens, not puppies. (breathing deeply now..........)

 

 

      * takes large elephant gun,  with loaded tranx, aims, fires*  Gee I sure hope I didn't hurt the enviroment. * wonders off*

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I would like to add another

I would like to add another point to burning of the Koran, and or bibles. Someone mentioned earlier that hitler burned everything that went against him, and in the "50's they burned records that they felt were an abomination. Now look at today Jews can live in peace, we have bands that play sreamo music. My point is that it seems that when society targets a group it seems to empower them in the end. I realize that if we start burning korans every time we turn around there will be a backlass that will make 9/11 look like a day in the park. This is what they want. They want obama to step in and stop it. That will give them one more reason to call him a Muslim. Really sad that religion has come to this. Childiss games. Insulting them selves. Freedom comes at price. I don't think America should suffer for these fools, but we will.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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jimmy.williamson wrote: I

jimmy.williamson wrote:

I would like to add another point to burning of the Koran, and or bibles. Someone mentioned earlier that hitler burned everything that went against him, and in the "50's they burned records that they felt were an abomination. Now look at today Jews can live in peace, we have bands that play sreamo music. My point is that it seems that when society targets a group it seems to empower them in the end. I realize that if we start burning korans every time we turn around there will be a backlass that will make 9/11 look like a day in the park. This is what they want. They want obama to step in and stop it. That will give them one more reason to call him a Muslim. Really sad that religion has come to this. Childiss games. Insulting them selves. Freedom comes at price. I don't think America should suffer for these fools, but we will.

 

Yeah, look at today. 

Wikipedia wrote:

During a London concert ten days before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, lead vocalist Maines said, "we don't want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas" (the Dixie Chicks' home state).[1] The statement offended some people, who thought it rude and unpatriotic, and the ensuing controversy cost the group half of their concert audience attendance in the United States and led to accusations of the three women being "un-American", as well as hate mail, a death threat, and the public destruction of their albums in protest.[2]

 

And they went on to win 5 more Grammy awards.  Which I guess sort of proves your point.  Shoot, before the protests, I didn't know the Dixie Chicks existed.  I detest most country music.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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 jimmy.williamson wrote: I

 

jimmy.williamson wrote:
I realize that if we start burning korans every time we turn around there will be a backlass that will make 9/11 look like a day in the park. This is what they want. They want obama to step in and stop it. That will give them one more reason to call him a Muslim. Really sad that religion has come to this.

 

Actually, I see that as potentially a positive thing if we work it right.

 

The more silly games that go on with religion, the more potential openings we have to encourage thinking men and women to consider if religion is really so good for society.

 

Just take this one case as a model. If Obama says anything at all, he gains points with muslims and loses points with nut bag christians. If he says nothing (too late for that, I know but even so...) then he loses points with muslims as an obviously complicit individual. He can't really gain any points with the nut bags here at home no matter what.

 

If anyone even mentions the deal, it probably doesn't make all that much difference which side they are on. If the person is capable of some thought, you can ask them if they want to be associated with this bit of a publicity stunt.

 

 

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The best thing about this

 

Thread is that it's representative of the fact all around the world people are questioning faiths - looking at them closely. Judging them. If everyone could be encouraged to think the way a few of our universally ultruistic members do - brian, gene, melles, gadfly and jeffrick spring to mind - we may yet enter a new age of enlightenment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Brian37 wrote: FYI guys,

Brian37 wrote:

FYI guys, just heard on the news that fuckwad homophobe Fred Phelps burnt a Koran on a DC street yesterday.

Seems that even in his own bigotry this dip shit can't come up with an original idea.

 

 

Oh oh oh how I hate Fred Phelps! This moron is a boil on the ass of humanity. I guess he saw this as an opportunity to refresh his name. As if I needed another reason to contemplate bombing his church. That was a joke mellestad, I'm not that hateful of an atheist lol.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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As of 2:00 eastern time, it

As of 2:00 eastern time, it appears that the koran burning is back on.

 

Apparently, it was called off because pastor jones had a deal with the guys in NYC to move the ground zero mosque.  However, they then said that they had not heard of this.

 

Right around the same time, Donald Trump tendered an offer to buy the property for 125% of what they had paid for it just to make the matter go away. 

 

Well, this afternoon, pastor jones held a press conference and publicly gave out two phone numbers for the guys in NYC to call him.  If they did call and agree to move the mosque, then he was not going to burn the koran.

 

I have not heard an update since then but it seems likely to me that the burning will happen.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

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Shouldn't god or jesus, like

Shouldn't god or jesus, like stop all this shit from happening? I mean, isn't the world out of fucking control with these crazy religious leaders warping the word of god?

If I were god or jesus I'd come down to earth and kick the living shit out of some of these douches right quick and then I'd set all the others (who might be having similar ideas) straight by sending them to hell for a few minutes. That would straighten this crazy poop really quickly.

Too bad there isn't really a god or jesus to do that stuff because man, it would be so money to see it happen.

 

ubuntuAnyone wrote:

Freedom of speech is a good thing, but it can be abused.

This guy wants to hold a bonfire burning Korans....

If you're going to burn holy books, why not include the Pali Canon, Vedas, Sutras, Book or Mormon, or other holy books?

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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It appears the "son" made a

It appears the "son" made a statement this evening saying it was "suspended" and that they are hoping for a meeting with NY leaders (from the Mosque).

 

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

As of 2:00 eastern time, it appears that the koran burning is back on.

 Apparently, it was called off because pastor jones had a deal with the guys in NYC to move the ground zero mosque.  However, they then said that they had not heard of this.

 Right around the same time, Donald Trump tendered an offer to buy the property for 125% of what they had paid for it just to make the matter go away. 

 Well, this afternoon, pastor jones held a press conference and publicly gave out two phone numbers for the guys in NYC to call him.  If they did call and agree to move the mosque, then he was not going to burn the koran.

 I have not heard an update since then but it seems likely to me that the burning will happen.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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I have it that Allah itself

I have it that Allah itself is guilty of destroying more Qur'ans than anybody else.
Just recently, in Pakistan, the floods wiped out millions of those holy books!
Allah has no way to escape punishment.
One day, for sure!

No gods with indirect messages to me.


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julio wrote: I have it that

julio wrote:
I have it that Allah itself is guilty of destroying more Qur'ans than anybody else. Just recently, in Pakistan, the floods wiped out millions of those holy books! Allah has no way to escape punishment. One day, for sure!

 

How delicious.  I shall have to remember this come back for future debates.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Shouldn't god or jesus, like stop all this shit from happening? I mean, isn't the world out of fucking control with these crazy religious leaders warping the word of god?

If I were god or jesus I'd come down to earth and kick the living shit out of some of these douches right quick and then I'd set all the others (who might be having similar ideas) straight by sending them to hell for a few minutes. That would straighten this crazy poop really quickly.

Too bad there isn't really a god or jesus to do that stuff because man, it would be so money to see it happen.

 

I have often wondered why Allah needed people to defend him.  Why doesn't he defend himself?  Same with Jesus/god/s/dess.  You don't want your name taken in vain?  The solution is right in your hand ---

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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I have discussed this with

I have discussed this with "religious" people who tell me this is an example of "free will". If "god" wanted to defend itself then it would wipe out man, after all, the great flood with Noah is proof of that, isn't it?

I asked about the "free will" stuff and it was explained to me that we are all being watched so that on the day of judgement, we will be forced to account for our sins or be rewarded for our good.

I responded that if "god" is our father and we are its children, then why hasn't "god" given us a time out every once in a while to remind us of transgrestions? I told them that it would be more logical to occassionally visit us and remind us of what we are really supposed to be doing. Yet, we are supposed to continue going on this path which was decided by a crazed, old, drunk man in the desert who spoke to a burning bush? Huh. Think about that for a second. I mean, really. Logically think about a person today telling you "I spoke to god and it was in the form of a burning bush".

I'm totally against violence and can't even consider killing cockroaches, instead picking them up and putting them outside the house, but this douche bag is a crazy old attention whore and he should be Baker Acted (then put him on 3000cc's of Thorozine and throw away the key).

 

 

cj wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Shouldn't god or jesus, like stop all this shit from happening? I mean, isn't the world out of fucking control with these crazy religious leaders warping the word of god?

If I were god or jesus I'd come down to earth and kick the living shit out of some of these douches right quick and then I'd set all the others (who might be having similar ideas) straight by sending them to hell for a few minutes. That would straighten this crazy poop really quickly.

Too bad there isn't really a god or jesus to do that stuff because man, it would be so money to see it happen.

 

I have often wondered why Allah needed people to defend him.  Why doesn't he defend himself?  Same with Jesus/god/s/dess.  You don't want your name taken in vain?  The solution is right in your hand ---

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


digitalbeachbum
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It appears he will not be

It appears he will not be burning the books and has claimed that he will never do it... Apparently the congregation voted that they didn't want to do it. This of course was posted around 9am this moring on CNN's website and only time will tell if the nut job will keep his word.

www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/11/new.york.jones/

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams