Stephen Hawking writes that the Universe came from nothing

Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
Stephen Hawking writes that the Universe came from nothing

The Grand Design for Kindle

HARDCOVER EDITION:

Stephen Hawking has a new book on the way, and it's about to add weight to arguments that atheists have been making for many years.  During my interactions with Ray Comfort he once posited that I as an atheist believed that everything came from nothing.  I had never made that claim.  Most arguments for a Universe without a God are based on the notion that our Universe is infinite that it's all existed forever in some form.  If Christians posit that their God has existed forever, this concept should be easy for them to understand however they're rarely willing to accept it.  It's not easy for them to accept because they are so entrenched in belief that most of the time they'll merely respond with some form of dishonest or illogical argumentation.  Enter Stephen Hawkings new book.  

In his new book, The Grand Design Hawking argues that "the universe can and will create itself from nothing."  The collective heads of all the dishonest Christians who have argued that atheists claim that everything comes from nothing have just imploded.  

associated press wrote:

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing," the excerpt says. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to ... set the Universe going."

 

description of book from amazon wrote:

 

How can we understand the world in which we find ourselves? Over twenty years ago I wrote A Brief History of Time, to try to explain where the universe came from, and where it is going. But that book left some important questions unanswered. Why is there a universe--why is there something rather than nothing? Why do we exist? Why are the laws of nature what they are? Did the universe need a designer and creator?

It was Einstein’s dream to discover the grand design of the universe, a single theory that explains everything. However, physicists in Einstein’s day hadn’t made enough progress in understanding the forces of nature for that to be a realistic goal. And by the time I had begun writing A Brief History of Time, there were still several key advances that had not yet been made that would prevent us from fulfilling Einstein’s dream. But in recent years the development of M-theory, the top-down approach to cosmology, and new observations such as those made by satellites like NASA’s COBE and WMAP, have brought us closer than ever to that single theory, and to being able to answer those deepest of questions. And so Leonard Mlodinow and I set out to write a sequel to A Brief History of Time to attempt to answer the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. The result is The Grand Design, the product of our four-year effort.

In The Grand Design we explain why, according to quantum theory, the cosmos does not have just a single existence, or history, but rather that every possible history of the universe exists simultaneously. We question the conventional concept of reality, posing instead a "model-dependent" theory of reality. We discuss how the laws of our particular universe are extraordinarily finely tuned so as to allow for our existence, and show why quantum theory predicts the multiverse--the idea that ours is just one of many universes that appeared spontaneously out of nothing, each with different laws of nature. And we assess M-Theory, an explanation of the laws governing the multiverse, and the only viable candidate for a complete "theory of everything." As we promise in our opening chapter, unlike the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life given in the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, the answer we provide in The Grand Design is not, simply, "42."

Purchase the book, your purchase will help pay for the bill to keep this site afloat

The Grand Design for Kindle

HARDCOVER EDITION:

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2927
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
Could you make a referral

Could you make a referral link to the Kindle edition?

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


rebecca.williamson
atheist
Posts: 459
Joined: 2010-08-09
User is offlineOffline
I'm buying that book and I'm

I'm buying that book and I'm going to find a statue of the flying spaghetti monster and put both on my coffee table!

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
mellestad wrote: Could you

mellestad wrote:

Could you make a referral link to the Kindle edition?

 

YUP!

The Grand Design for Kindle

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


jimmy.williamson
Superfan
jimmy.williamson's picture
Posts: 249
Joined: 2010-08-07
User is offlineOffline
What about IBook? Do they

What about IBook? Do they have a link for that. I don't have kindle I have I phones.


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
jimmy.williamson wrote:What

jimmy.williamson wrote:
What about IBook? Do they have a link for that. I don't have kindle I have I phones.

I can't find it on Amazon.  If it's on Amazon I can make it happen.

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


vIQleS
vIQleS's picture
Posts: 1
Joined: 2007-05-09
User is offlineOffline

Anonymouse
atheist
Posts: 1687
Joined: 2008-05-04
User is offlineOffline
vIQleS

"..according to professor Hawking............However, according to Ray Comfort..."

 

LOL !!!


jimmy.williamson
Superfan
jimmy.williamson's picture
Posts: 249
Joined: 2010-08-07
User is offlineOffline
Sapient

Sapient wrote:

jimmy.williamson wrote:
What about IBook? Do they have a link for that. I don't have kindle I have I phones.

I can't find it on Amazon.  If it's on Amazon I can make it happen.

 

Cool let me know I'm not that good with computers. I'm just one of the turn the damn thing on and go to web sites.lol

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Anonymouse wrote:vIQleS

Anonymouse wrote:

"..according to professor Hawking............However, according to Ray Comfort..."

 

LOL !!!

Yep - Ray's certainly my science go to guy... So frickin NOT.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
vIQleS

Ray cracks me up.  I love this:

Quote:
"It is embarrassingly unscientific to speak of anything creating itself from nothing. Common sense says that if something possessed the ability to create itself from nothing, then that something wasn't nothing, it was something -- a very intelligent creative power of some sort." 

I find it more embarrassing to be someone who misconstrues and misunderstands science at every turn, which is what Ray does.  Now he has the audacity to criticize one of the most intelligent scientists alive today.  Maybe Ray should consider reading the book and then researching it further before giving his opinion.  

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2927
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
jimmy.williamson

jimmy.williamson wrote:

Sapient wrote:

jimmy.williamson wrote:
What about IBook? Do they have a link for that. I don't have kindle I have I phones.

I can't find it on Amazon.  If it's on Amazon I can make it happen.

 

Cool let me know I'm not that good with computers. I'm just one of the turn the damn thing on and go to web sites.lol

If you have an iphone/ipad then you can just download the free kindle app and purchase the kindle version and read on your phone.  Same price as Kindle, same system, you just need the free kindle app.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


jimmy.williamson
Superfan
jimmy.williamson's picture
Posts: 249
Joined: 2010-08-07
User is offlineOffline
Thank you I will give it a

Thank you I will give it a try.


Ken G.
Bronze Member
Posts: 1352
Joined: 2008-03-20
User is offlineOffline
Sapient wrote: Stephen Hawking writes...came from nothing.......

This is just me trying to embed a video from the Science Channel,I hope that this works  no! this is not working,I'll type out the web page.Looking through the worm-hole with Morgan Freeman,the name of the video is-"Is there a creator ?"     science.discovery.com/videos/through-the-wormhole-creator/   OK,now i'll see if this works,it's about multi-verces and inflation theory.Yes it worked

Signature ? How ?


ragdish
atheist
ragdish's picture
Posts: 462
Joined: 2007-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Will a Christian or Islamic physics emerge?

I have no doubt that the fundies will put forth intelligent design theories of the universe. That they will mandate 2 separate theories of gravity in high school texts with one requiring a designer. Or they may deny gravity altogether and hopefully step out of a flying Boeing 747. Yes, gravity like evolution will be regarded as a secular social construct that should be removed to make way for the true physics as foretold in the Bible and the Koran.

Can't wait to read Hawking's book.


100percentAtheist
atheist
100percentAtheist's picture
Posts: 679
Joined: 2010-05-02
User is offlineOffline
Sapient wrote:vIQleS

Sapient wrote:

Ray cracks me up.  I love this:

Quote:
"It is embarrassingly unscientific to speak of anything creating itself from nothing. Common sense says that if something possessed the ability to create itself from nothing, then that something wasn't nothing, it was something -- a very intelligent creative power of some sort." 

I find it more embarrassing to be someone who misconstrues and misunderstands science at every turn, which is what Ray does.  Now he has the audacity to criticize one of the most intelligent scientists alive today.  Maybe Ray should consider reading the book and then researching it further before giving his opinion.  

 

Oh yeh!

I was about to post the same link to Ray's "commentary".  I think he chocked on the book even before he read it.  Does what Ray said imply he is a materialist now (besides being an idiot)? 

"Hawking has violated the unspoken rules of atheism. He isn't supposed to use words like 'create' or even 'made.' They necessitate a Creator and a Maker. Neither are you supposed to let out that the essence of atheism is to believe that nothing created everything, because it's unthinking."

This sounds like : it is my god, you can't say his name ....  


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
100percentAtheist

100percentAtheist wrote:

"Hawking has violated the unspoken rules of atheism. He isn't supposed to use words like 'create' or even 'made.' They necessitate a Creator and a Maker. Neither are you supposed to let out that the essence of atheism is to believe that nothing created everything, because it's unthinking."

Ray is really something special.  Day in and day out he accuses atheists of believing that something came from nothing.  Finally when one says something came from nothing he acts as if this person is the first person to violate a sacred rule that all atheists adhere to.  Well if this is an unspoken rule of atheism then why the hell does he always accuse atheists of believing something came from nothing.  Ray Comfort is a lying conman scumbag dishonest terrorist shithead. 

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


stuntgibbon
Moderator
stuntgibbon's picture
Posts: 699
Joined: 2007-05-17
User is offlineOffline
Yahoo posted a story on

Yahoo posted a story on this, and there's well over 33k comments now...  http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100902/lf_nm_life/us_britain_hawking#mwpphu-container

 

Just see what the average idiot has brought us... 

Quote:
"I believe Jesus NOT some mentally crippled physicist."

"FIND ME A "SCIENTIST" THAT CAN MAKE "SOMETHIN" OUT OF NOTHIN!!!"

"Interesting what people will say to sell a book. One great thing that we can all depend on is that God has not changed! He has been, is, and always will be here. People like Stehen Hawking will change their mind like the wind. Sorry dude, I won't be buying your book! I'll take my chances with God any day of the week over your theories!"

"No wonder God made him a cripple."

"He'll have his chance to tell God this line of crap someday. He must be a democrate to boot"  (huh?)

"Judgment day will hold the truth for this idiot."

"If there was no God, there would be no atheists."

"PRAY for this Poor LOST Soul ! How lucky we are to Know the Truth."

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing." Great. Who or what created the law of gravity? Just curious...."

"Another athiest campaining with a lie. Athiests can talk all they want about their theories, I believe in a higher power and it is GOD."

"Hawkins may be highly intelligent,but being intelligent does not mean there is an absences of bitterness from a lifetime of imprisonment in a shell of a body, where one would have such disdain for a higher power and/or God"

From our side...

 

Quote:
"Don't be fooled by this man. His lies will snare you from the path of righteousness. Praise be to Thor and all father Odin! May the deserving walk with them in Valhalla come the final days of Ragnarok!"

"And I will KILL her CHILDREN with DEATH !" - Jesus (Rev. 2:23)
Sounds like a wonderful guy....lol."

"Why is it that every time there is mention of disbelief in God Christians come out of the wood work? It's simple, when something is in direct conflict with their perception, which is entirely shaped by their ego and social programming, there's an instantaneous, emotional compulsion, to right the small wrong. My point is this, let people believe what they want, go on and worship your God and stop dooming others for the intellectual paths they have taken, it's egotistical and flat out infantile. If there is a God, he doesn't need you to defend his existence or condemn anyone that doesn't."

 

 

There's too many comments to read, if you happen upon more gems.. paste 'em up.

 

Also have this.

 


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2927
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
If theists were really

If theists were really concerned about their image they would make posting on the Internet require a license.  I'm always amazed at the ridiculous garbage people post.  I would say it is all a bunch of atheists joking around but I know people like that out in the real world.

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


Beyond Saving
Silver Member
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 4286
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
 All right, who left their

 All right, who left their rulebook laying around where Ray could find it? Don't let it happen again. It's that kind of sloppiness that destroyed the Illuminati.

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13405
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Sapient wrote:vIQleS

Sapient wrote:

Ray cracks me up.  I love this:

Quote:
"It is embarrassingly unscientific to speak of anything creating itself from nothing. Common sense says that if something possessed the ability to create itself from nothing, then that something wasn't nothing, it was something -- a very intelligent creative power of some sort." 

I find it more embarrassing to be someone who misconstrues and misunderstands science at every turn, which is what Ray does.  Now he has the audacity to criticize one of the most intelligent scientists alive today.  Maybe Ray should consider reading the book and then researching it further before giving his opinion.  

 

Ray isn't concerned with facts, he is concerned like all deity believers, in spreading their meme, plus he likes the money and attention selling his tripe and people love to swallow it.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


100percentAtheist
atheist
100percentAtheist's picture
Posts: 679
Joined: 2010-05-02
User is offlineOffline
 Wow."Writing in the Times,

 Wow.

"Writing in the Times, Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said: "Science is about explanation. Religion is about interpretation ... The Bible simply isn't interested in how the Universe came into being."  from here: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/03/hawking.god.universe.criticisms/index.html?hpt=C1

Should we tear "Genesis" out of the Bible now?  

 


rebecca.williamson
atheist
Posts: 459
Joined: 2010-08-09
User is offlineOffline
stuntgibbon wrote:Yahoo

stuntgibbon wrote:

Yahoo posted a story on this, and there's well over 33k comments now...  http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100902/lf_nm_life/us_britain_hawking#mwpphu-container

 

Just see what the average idiot has brought us... 

Quote:
"I believe Jesus NOT some mentally crippled physicist."

"FIND ME A "SCIENTIST" THAT CAN MAKE "SOMETHIN" OUT OF NOTHIN!!!"

"Interesting what people will say to sell a book. One great thing that we can all depend on is that God has not changed! He has been, is, and always will be here. People like Stehen Hawking will change their mind like the wind. Sorry dude, I won't be buying your book! I'll take my chances with God any day of the week over your theories!"

"No wonder God made him a cripple."

"He'll have his chance to tell God this line of crap someday. He must be a democrate to boot"  (huh?)

"Judgment day will hold the truth for this idiot."

"If there was no God, there would be no atheists."

"PRAY for this Poor LOST Soul ! How lucky we are to Know the Truth."

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing." Great. Who or what created the law of gravity? Just curious...."

"Another athiest campaining with a lie. Athiests can talk all they want about their theories, I believe in a higher power and it is GOD."

"Hawkins may be highly intelligent,but being intelligent does not mean there is an absences of bitterness from a lifetime of imprisonment in a shell of a body, where one would have such disdain for a higher power and/or God"

From our side...

 

Quote:
"Don't be fooled by this man. His lies will snare you from the path of righteousness. Praise be to Thor and all father Odin! May the deserving walk with them in Valhalla come the final days of Ragnarok!"

"And I will KILL her CHILDREN with DEATH !" - Jesus (Rev. 2:23)
Sounds like a wonderful guy....lol."

"Why is it that every time there is mention of disbelief in God Christians come out of the wood work? It's simple, when something is in direct conflict with their perception, which is entirely shaped by their ego and social programming, there's an instantaneous, emotional compulsion, to right the small wrong. My point is this, let people believe what they want, go on and worship your God and stop dooming others for the intellectual paths they have taken, it's egotistical and flat out infantile. If there is a God, he doesn't need you to defend his existence or condemn anyone that doesn't."

 

 

There's too many comments to read, if you happen upon more gems.. paste 'em up.

 

Also have this.

 

 

I posted a comment on there and these christians are having a hissy fit about what I said. One of them said "no wonder god made him a cripple" and yeah it lit a fire under my ass. So I told him he was a horrible person for saying that and so on. I didn't say anything ugly I just called him out on his bad attitude,whatever. So far I've had two come back and tell me I'm calling people hypocrites and saying nasty things about christians. I'm surprised they haven't gotten upset because I don't capitalize christians but I don't feel the need.

 

Anyway I told them if they wanted to debate with me about this they could do it here. We need more dumb asses! Maybe it will also bring some more Atheists to this site to take em all down.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
vIQleS

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


Tapey
atheist
Tapey's picture
Posts: 1474
Joined: 2009-01-23
User is offlineOffline
Well from another forum im

Well from another forum im on (non atheism/religion focused) the same two objections are poping up every second post, first no one has been to the begining of the universe so how can we be sure? just silly imo, you don't need to see something to be able to get evidence for or against. And even more annoying... well then someone still had to put the law of gravity in place and naturally they attribute this to god. So god still created the universe

 

I supose there is a lot of taking the bibles word over everything else but thats to be expected.

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


ubuntuAnyone
Theist
ubuntuAnyone's picture
Posts: 862
Joined: 2009-08-06
User is offlineOffline
Tapey wrote:Well from

Tapey wrote:

Well from another forum im on (non atheism/religion focused) the same two objections are poping up every second post, first no one has been to the begining of the universe so how can we be sure?

I'm interested to see how Hawkings postulates this... Haven't read it though, so I dunno.

“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”


JesusNEVERexisted
Superfan
JesusNEVERexisted's picture
Posts: 690
Joined: 2010-01-03
User is offlineOffline
What can you say? Hawking

What can you say? Hawking and Einstein are right and the Christians are wrong.

If you guys haven't read one of Einstein's last letters he called Christianity and all religion "childish and a product of human weakness".  Talk about MASSIVE OWNAGE!!

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24598856/

 

 

 

 

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


100percentAtheist
atheist
100percentAtheist's picture
Posts: 679
Joined: 2010-05-02
User is offlineOffline
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:What

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

What can you say? Hawking and Einstein are right and the Christians are wrong.

If you guys haven't read one of Einstein's last letters he called Christianity and all religion "childish and a product of human weakness".  Talk about MASSIVE OWNAGE!!

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24598856/

 

 

 

I do not understand why so many theists WANT Einstein to be a theist too.  

They almost ALWAYS take his "science without religion is ..." quote out of context to claim he was a theist.

Do you have an idea why they do so?

 


cj
atheistRational VIP!
cj's picture
Posts: 3330
Joined: 2007-01-05
User is offlineOffline
100percentAtheist

100percentAtheist wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

What can you say? Hawking and Einstein are right and the Christians are wrong.

If you guys haven't read one of Einstein's last letters he called Christianity and all religion "childish and a product of human weakness".  Talk about MASSIVE OWNAGE!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24598856/

I do not understand why so many theists WANT Einstein to be a theist too.  

They almost ALWAYS take his "science without religion is ..." quote out of context to claim he was a theist.

Do you have an idea why they do so?

 

It makes no sense to me.  The Oregon Museum of Science and Industry (OMSI) has had an exhibit up all summer about Einstein.  With some of his original hand written documents displayed.  He had to flee Germany - because he was Jewish.  An ethnic Jew, not a practicing Jew.  He identified very strongly with the Jewish community.  And he said christianity never had any personal appeal.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


100percentAtheist
atheist
100percentAtheist's picture
Posts: 679
Joined: 2010-05-02
User is offlineOffline
cj wrote:100percentAtheist

cj wrote:

100percentAtheist wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

What can you say? Hawking and Einstein are right and the Christians are wrong.

If you guys haven't read one of Einstein's last letters he called Christianity and all religion "childish and a product of human weakness".  Talk about MASSIVE OWNAGE!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24598856/

I do not understand why so many theists WANT Einstein to be a theist too.  

They almost ALWAYS take his "science without religion is ..." quote out of context to claim he was a theist.

Do you have an idea why they do so?

 

It makes no sense to me.  The Oregon Museum of Science and Industry (OMSI) has had an exhibit up all summer about Einstein.  With some of his original hand written documents displayed.  He had to flee Germany - because he was Jewish.  An ethnic Jew, not a practicing Jew.  He identified very strongly with the Jewish community.  And he said christianity never had any personal appeal.

 

Christians are certainly not pretending they think Einstein believed in Jesus that would be a nonsense.  But I see they would be much happier with Einstein being a theists of any sort (even him being a Muslim would satisfy them I believe) then an atheist.  

My "conspiracy theory" tells me they don't want atheists to have an easy answer for their rhetoric dumb question "what good came from atheism".   It's just my irrational feeling.  But maybe someone has a better idea.  ?  It is not just about "St.Albert", but it is a more general trend of Christians trying to claim all people with some degree of positive image.  


JesusNEVERexisted
Superfan
JesusNEVERexisted's picture
Posts: 690
Joined: 2010-01-03
User is offlineOffline
100percentAtheist

100percentAtheist wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

What can you say? Hawking and Einstein are right and the Christians are wrong.

If you guys haven't read one of Einstein's last letters he called Christianity and all religion "childish and a product of human weakness".  Talk about MASSIVE OWNAGE!!

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24598856/

 

 

 

I do not understand why so many theists WANT Einstein to be a theist too.  

They almost ALWAYS take his "science without religion is ..." quote out of context to claim he was a theist.

Do you have an idea why they do so?

 

Christians want validation of their mythology from one of the smartest men who EVER lived but Einstein was obviously too smart to do so but instead called Christianity "a product of human WEAKNESS and CHILDISH"

Christians are TOTALLY owned!!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


cj
atheistRational VIP!
cj's picture
Posts: 3330
Joined: 2007-01-05
User is offlineOffline
100percentAtheist

100percentAtheist wrote:

Christians are certainly not pretending they think Einstein believed in Jesus that would be a nonsense.  But I see they would be much happier with Einstein being a theists of any sort (even him being a Muslim would satisfy them I believe) then an atheist.  

My "conspiracy theory" tells me they don't want atheists to have an easy answer for their rhetoric dumb question "what good came from atheism".   It's just my irrational feeling.  But maybe someone has a better idea.  ?  It is not just about "St.Albert", but it is a more general trend of Christians trying to claim all people with some degree of positive image.  

 

Mistakes were made, but not by me a book written by two psychologists, it discusses self justification in relationships, law enforcement, science, politics and religion.  Every one needs to feel their opinions and beliefs are valid.  And many will twist the truth as hard as they can to make it so.  Almost always, they are unaware they are doing so.  It is very difficult to resist.  Most of us here try to watch ourselves and we are often called out by the other members of the forum if we step over the line.  Many people don't realize what they are doing and wouldn't recognize it in themselves even if someone pointed it out to them.  Sound familiar?

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3688
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
If pantheism is a form of

If pantheism is a form of theism, then Einstein was a theist.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


Teralek
Theist
Teralek's picture
Posts: 614
Joined: 2010-07-15
User is offlineOffline
butterbattle wrote:If

butterbattle wrote:

If pantheism is a form of theism, then Einstein was a theist.

Finally someone with the courage to say the truth no matter what that truth is! I'm beginging to like Butterbattle in spite of our tumultuous start 

BTW if pantheism is not theism please remove my badge. I believe in a God but I don't know if He is personal or not.

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Teralek wrote:butterbattle

Teralek wrote:

butterbattle wrote:

If pantheism is a form of theism, then Einstein was a theist.

Finally someone with the courage to say the truth no matter what that truth is! I'm beginging to like Butterbattle in spite of our tumultuous start 

BTW if pantheism is not theism please remove my badge. I believe in a God but I don't know if He is personal or not.

Then you'll love this truth. Dawkins has said (and my experience bears this out) that pantheism is "sexed up atheism"

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13405
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
100percentAtheist

100percentAtheist wrote:

 Wow.

"Writing in the Times, Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said: "Science is about explanation. Religion is about interpretation ... The Bible simply isn't interested in how the Universe came into being."  from here: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/03/hawking.god.universe.criticisms/index.html?hpt=C1

Should we tear "Genesis" out of the Bible now?  

 

Right, that is like saying a kaleidoscope isn't interested in exploring stars, but merely showing you something pretty.

I find lots of fiction to be full of morals, but they are hardly useful in measuring the universe. Science has what theism will never have. PRAGMATISM.

These people merely don't want to give up on their myth, that is all this is saying.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13405
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
I'll take a telescope over a

I'll take a telescope over a holy book any day. The only reason I read holy books is to know what myth lovers try to defend.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Teralek
Theist
Teralek's picture
Posts: 614
Joined: 2010-07-15
User is offlineOffline
jcgadfly wrote:Then you'll

jcgadfly wrote:

Then you'll love this truth. Dawkins has said (and my experience bears this out) that pantheism is "sexed up atheism"
 

Dawkins is the Glen Beck of atheism... he is not impartial. But I insist! If the moderators stand on Dawkins quote change me to "sexed up atheist" 

I really do believe in a God but I can't define it (morphologically). I've said so previously.

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13405
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Teralek wrote:jcgadfly

Teralek wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Then you'll love this truth. Dawkins has said (and my experience bears this out) that pantheism is "sexed up atheism"
 

Dawkins is the Glen Beck of atheism... he is not impartial. But I insist! If the moderators stand on Dawkins quote change me to "sexed up atheist" 

I really do believe in a God but I can't define it (morphologically). I've said so previously.

Dawkins is nowhere near equal to Beck, not even as a counterpart. He studied science and defends what he knows through evidence. Beck on the other hand sells a utopia without a lick of evidence for what he claims. Beck  sells because of emotional appeal and appeals to the intellectually lazy. Dawkins only passion is to defend science and reason over ancient myth and superstition. There is nothing extreme about science, there are only people who fear it because they fear they might be wrong.

Of course Dawkins is partial, as am I, as are you. But what Dawkins has that Beck doesn't is evidence.

Equating Dawkins to Beck would be like equating Galileo to the opposite extreme to the Church that put him under house arrest because he said the earth rotated around the sun.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, not our own facts.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Teralek wrote:jcgadfly

Teralek wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Then you'll love this truth. Dawkins has said (and my experience bears this out) that pantheism is "sexed up atheism"
 

Dawkins is the Glen Beck of atheism... he is not impartial. But I insist! If the moderators stand on Dawkins quote change me to "sexed up atheist" 

I really do believe in a God but I can't define it (morphologically). I've said so previously.

I don't ask people to be impartial about their opinions. See, that's called "impossible".

Opinions are like assholes - everyone has them and most people like having theirs around.

I'm happy you believe in something you can't tell anyone about. It keeps you from proselytizing.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Teralek
Theist
Teralek's picture
Posts: 614
Joined: 2010-07-15
User is offlineOffline
proselytizing was never my

proselytizing was never my intention. The only person I wish to proselytize is myself. I wished Dawkins would do the same... but that is asking too much... science should also fear of being wrong...

The only proselytizing I aprove is the Daily Show or South Park... that shit is brilliant! (I've just watched yesterday's show) 

Any proof of God (for or against) is circumstancial, there is no hard evidence for neither camp. But Dawkins goes further than that stereotyping religion and making it an escape goat for every problem of mankind.

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Teralek wrote:proselytizing

Teralek wrote:

proselytizing was never my intention. The only person I wish to proselytize is myself. I wished Dawkins would do the same... but that is asking too much... science should also fear of being wrong...

The only proselytizing I aprove is the Daily Show or South Park... that shit is brilliant! (I've just watched yesterday's show) 

Any proof of God (for or against) is circumstancial, there is no hard evidence for neither camp. But Dawkins goes further than that stereotyping religion and making it an escape goat for every problem of mankind.

That's more like Hitchens but I see what you're saying.

As for science, it is constantly being reviewed and examined for wrong/old information. Nothing is handed down from on high.

As for scapegoating, religion invented the process. I think it needs to be used against them when there is cause to do so.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3688
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
Dawkins is okay. Has anyone

Dawkins is okay. Has anyone seen the TheAmazingAtheist on Youtube? Now that's the Glenn Beck of atheism.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


Nykes (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Was Moon Split in to Two?

Guys why do you search for clues to prove moon was not split? ..... Why not find out "Was it really split ... wow .." If God says in His scripture and the narrations of many witnesses say that they did see the moon in two halves .... and if a ridge looking like a split exists on the moon ... why don't we do a bit of positive search .... Our ancestors probably laughed at someone who said " It is the earth  that moves around the sun and not the sun moving around the earth..... " Do you want our progenies too laugh at us guys .... I am sure our grandfather scientists laughed when a Muslim recited from the Quran, Ch 36: 37-40   

And the night is another Sign for them. We strip the day from it and they become plunged in darkness. The sun is running its course to its appointed place. That is the ordaining of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing. We have appointed stages for the moon till it returns in the shape of a dry old branch of palm-tree (urjoonul qadeem). Neither does it lie in the sun's power to overtake the moon nor can the night outstrip the day. All (celestial bodies) glide along (on its own power), each in its own orbit (rotating on its own axis) The word used is .. fee falqinn yasbahoon which means both moving in a prescribed path while rotates on its own axis .... So we laughed for this those days when science was lame .... and today we are still lame to know about whether moon was split or not. So why do you jump to negaticve conclusion when you don't have a clue ... So is the creation of the Universe .... Quran tells us how God did it .... Please hold your tongue until our gret scientists can crawl around and have capabilities to make judgments .... Our scientists don't have the knowledge doesn't mean Quran is wrong ... Try disproving the Quran on established sceince ... that sounds fair .... do it now ...... Eg., It says sun,the moon, earth and all celestials rotate on their axes .... Prove it wrong and take the cup. Or it says Sun is Siraj (Source of light) and the moon is munir (borrowed light) prove it wrong ...... while Bible said sun is greater light and moon is minor light ....Nykes

 


Teralek
Theist
Teralek's picture
Posts: 614
Joined: 2010-07-15
User is offlineOffline
I just love this

I just love this one:

«Einstein was then asked if he accepted the "historical existence of Jesus," to which he replied, "Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."»

I didn't know he said such a thing. Just read it. 

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


lynn1221 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
(No subject)


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Teralek wrote:I just love

Teralek wrote:

I just love this one:

«Einstein was then asked if he accepted the "historical existence of Jesus," to which he replied, "Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."»

I didn't know he said such a thing. Just read it. 

Actually, I can accept that. The existence of the Son of God is another matter entirely.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


EXC
atheist
EXC's picture
Posts: 3132
Joined: 2008-01-17
User is offlineOffline
The universe came from

The universe came from nothing. Life started in a mud puddle. Apes, rats and cockroaches are your cousins. There is no paradise awaiting when you die.

You must admit we have a huge PR problem.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
EXC wrote:The universe came

EXC wrote:

The universe came from nothing. Life started in a mud puddle. Apes, rats and cockroaches are your cousins. There is no paradise awaiting when you die.

You must admit we have a huge PR problem.

 

Truth always has a PR problem.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Teralek
Theist
Teralek's picture
Posts: 614
Joined: 2010-07-15
User is offlineOffline
jcgadfly wrote:Teralek

jcgadfly wrote:

Teralek wrote:

I just love this one:

«Einstein was then asked if he accepted the "historical existence of Jesus," to which he replied, "Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."»

I didn't know he said such a thing. Just read it. 

Actually, I can accept that. The existence of the Son of God is another matter entirely.

I agree completely

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


chazmuze
Theist
chazmuze's picture
Posts: 62
Joined: 2008-04-19
User is offlineOffline
Looks like Hawins aligns

Looks like Hawins aligns with the Christian worldview.