Great. Just great. Blocked again.

darth_josh
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Great. Just great. Blocked again.

abc stem cell story link

 

How very 'christian' of them.

I will be adding more names to the list of people to be denied medical treatment by stem cells.

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Well, I am of two minds on

Well, I am of two minds on this one or possibly six or more minds because this really can be such a complicated question.

 

First, the christian objections are bullshit. Pretty much the same as christian objections to lots of stuff.

 

Second, it also bears noting that we are far from the only country to be banning this research. Which is not to minimize the matter but it does remain that the international picture is far from clear that this is some wacky American thing. Asia is fairly interesting because the laws there vary all over the damn place despite christians being the minority to all other religions.

 

Third, I have to wonder just how much research has actually been missed because of the ban. Remember that the Bush 43 ban was not a total ban. Some research was allowed. So what have we learned from that tiny bit?

 

As recently as 2005, researchers discovered that using mouse prepared growth media for human stem cells resulted in stem cells that produce mouse proteins. OK, that is fairly recent to be hearing about just how basic a stage this research is at.

 

Would the research have been further along if the federal funding had been there? The world will never really know but that seems like a fairly basic thing that we needed in order for any other research to be valid.

 

Oh, Bush is still a moron regardless of the question at hand.

 

Fourth, would the research have even happened? Remember that the universities that would have done the work also have their own ethics panels to deal with. Even with the money there, the researchers would still have had to convince a bunch of stuck up prigs whose job it is to say no to this type of thing that they could go foreward.

 

Fifth, remember that federal rule apply to universities and funded laboratories. They do not automatically apply to huge corporations with private research budgets. Companies like Monsanto, Genentech, Archer Daniels Midland and so on all have huge labs for doing genetic research. If they see an opportunity to ring the cash register, then they are ultimately responsible to their share holders and nobody else. So why have they not taken the opportunity to do this work themselves?

 

Sixth, during the Bush 43 years, much research went into finding alternatives to the basic idea. There are now several promising lines of research into developing cells that are just as good as embryonic cell lines but based on adult cell lines.

 

Honestly, even after the ban was lifted, the action had shifted to the adult cell line research. Basically, apart from therapeutic cloning, there is really no better way to avoid graft vs. host disease than to use your own cells in the first place.

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Is it wrong for me to say

Is it wrong for me to say that I hope this judge gets testicular cancer? Eh, I don't care.


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rebecca.williamson wrote:Is

rebecca.williamson wrote:

Is it wrong for me to say that I hope this judge gets testicular cancer? Eh, I don't care.

 

Wrong?... In my book you're too lenient... I was going to wish lymphoma on his children... and upon having spent his last dollar trying to save them, and looking into their eyes knowing that their suffering could have been prevented if only he weren't such a pious, self-righteous, indignatious Spunk Bucket.... having an epiphany that his life was wasted believing in fairy tales...

 

But any gal who'll wish Yam Bag Cancer on someone is A-OK in my book...

 


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To be fair I thing the judge

To be fair I thing the judge is correct here, the research probably did violate congressional mandate.  I don't think the judge ever commented on the morality of the situation.  It is actually fairly clear cut, hence his teensy (by judicial standards) 15 page decision.

 

In short, the guy was just doing his job.

 

 

Edit:  So wish cancer on Congress-critters instead.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:To be fair I

mellestad wrote:

To be fair I thing the judge is correct here, the research probably did violate congressional mandate.  I don't think the judge ever commented on the morality of the situation.  It is actually fairly clear cut, hence his teensy (by judicial standards) 15 page decision.

 

In short, the guy was just doing his job.

 

 

Edit:  So wish cancer on Congress-critters instead.

If it was a GOP president funding stem cell research (I know it's laughable but possible), I wonder if the amendment would've come up..,

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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darth_josh wrote:abc stem

darth_josh wrote:

abc stem cell story link

How very 'christian' of them.

I will be adding more names to the list of people to be denied medical treatment by stem cells.

I wonder why these people so interested in immortal souls are so squeamish about the bodies.


 

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jcgadfly wrote:mellestad

jcgadfly wrote:

mellestad wrote:

To be fair I thing the judge is correct here, the research probably did violate congressional mandate.  I don't think the judge ever commented on the morality of the situation.  It is actually fairly clear cut, hence his teensy (by judicial standards) 15 page decision.

 

In short, the guy was just doing his job.

 

 

Edit:  So wish cancer on Congress-critters instead.

If it was a GOP president funding stem cell research (I know it's laughable but possible), I wonder if the amendment would've come up..,

 

Yes.  

That isn't the question though, the question is if it were a GOP president funding the research, would a suit ever have been filed in the first place.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:To be fair I

mellestad wrote:

To be fair I thing the judge is correct here, the research probably did violate congressional mandate.  I don't think the judge ever commented on the morality of the situation.  It is actually fairly clear cut, hence his teensy (by judicial standards) 15 page decision.

 

In short, the guy was just doing his job.

 

 

Edit:  So wish cancer on Congress-critters instead.

Fact is we have a president ready to face the hard fact that opposing right winged fundamentalist is the only way to further our species. My hats off to him. These cock blockers will only be able to hold us back for so long.

Maybe this time Obama can get it right where Clinton got it wrong. When he does get this bill past Parliament it needs to be written in such a way that the next moron we get in office can't just end the studies.

Bush blocked Clinton mostly because Clinton's bill was put in late in the term. If Obama completes this bill early enough maybe it will stick.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


jcgadfly
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mellestad wrote:jcgadfly

mellestad wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

mellestad wrote:

To be fair I thing the judge is correct here, the research probably did violate congressional mandate.  I don't think the judge ever commented on the morality of the situation.  It is actually fairly clear cut, hence his teensy (by judicial standards) 15 page decision.

 

In short, the guy was just doing his job.

 

 

Edit:  So wish cancer on Congress-critters instead.

If it was a GOP president funding stem cell research (I know it's laughable but possible), I wonder if the amendment would've come up..,

 

Yes.  

That isn't the question though, the question is if it were a GOP president funding the research, would a suit ever have been filed in the first place.

That was what I was trying to say - the amendment is the grounds for the suit. I think it would have been ignored like the 12th Amendment was for Bush and Cheney.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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jcgadfly
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jimmy.williamson

jimmy.williamson wrote:

mellestad wrote:

To be fair I thing the judge is correct here, the research probably did violate congressional mandate.  I don't think the judge ever commented on the morality of the situation.  It is actually fairly clear cut, hence his teensy (by judicial standards) 15 page decision.

 

In short, the guy was just doing his job.

 

 

Edit:  So wish cancer on Congress-critters instead.

Fact is we have a president ready to face the hard fact that opposing right winged fundamentalist is the only way to further our species. My hats off to him. These cock blockers will only be able to hold us back for so long.

Maybe this time Obama can get it right where Clinton got it wrong. When he does get this bill past Parliament it needs to be written in such a way that the next moron we get in office can't just end the studies.

Bush blocked Clinton mostly because Clinton's bill was put in late in the term. If Obama completes this bill early enough maybe it will stick.

Unfortunately, he has to convince some of the invertebrates of his party to go along.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


darth_josh
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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Honestly, even after the ban was lifted, the action had shifted to the adult cell line research. Basically, apart from therapeutic cloning, there is really no better way to avoid graft vs. host disease than to use your own cells in the first place.

 

The focus HAD to shift that way because other ways were shut down from funding.

Also, partial harvesting was/is an aspect of this same 'genre'.

I am extremist. I want it ALL funded. ALL allowed. ALL researched.

I agree that research-to-date has shown it is better to use one's own cells in effort to cure the person. However, the problem's concerning 'telomerase expression' (cell aging or lack thereof) exist when using already specialized cells.

In this quarter's HHMI magazine, there is an article covering 3D mapping in cultures and it briefly touches on the fact that cells and even the contents of cells must have a complete environment in order to efficiently/quickly replicate. More study in embryonics is needed before it(embryonic stem cell) can be relegated to the status of 'not as good'.

Many of the proponents are declaring adult harvested stem cells(specialized) are better without knowing for sure because it is easier to get the money for that. It is amazingly easy to get cadaverous stem cells too, does that make that line of research 'good enough'?


 

Not responding, just ranting, not at you AIGS.

I'm sick of this mamby-pamby, weak-willed, mealy mouthed, candy assed pandering to religious objections.

Why do they scream so loudly against stem cell research??? Because they stand to lose the most when it comes to fruition. THAT'S WHY. Think about it. No one needs to pray for a cure while sliding money into an offering plate if a doctor can break out a petri dish with the cure already cultured.

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