What meaning does love have for atheists?

rybak303
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What meaning does love have for atheists?

If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have? In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating? If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

 


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rybak303 wrote:

rybak303 wrote:

If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have? In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating? If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

 

 

OK.... relax.... uhh...  Smiling  now, I can. Smiling

1) There were plenty of articles including articles in both scientific journals and magazines like Time on the topic of chemistry (literally) of love.  I encourage you to read some of them first.

2) Love exists between animals. You know that swans, for example, live in pairs. 

3) Love by no means = god/Jesus/Allah/Buddha 

4) I do think that humen "re-invented" love. 

5) Philosophically, there is material world and there is the world of ideas.  I do think that there is a lot of concepts and behaviors which can be described more conveniently in non-materialistic terms such as love.

6) As a Christian, do you experience orgasm? And do you think about Jesus at the moment of orgasm?

7) Does your wife think at night that it is Jesus and not you who is having sex with her?  

 

 


Atheistextremist
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After reading this post

rybak303 wrote:

If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have? In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating? If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

 

 

I spent a couple of minutes attempting to find some reason not to tell you to go fuck yourself, rybak. Needless to say, nothing came up.

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


B166ER
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huh???

We as social animals create bonds with other animals around us. Why do you need magic to explain a social animal being social?

rybak303 wrote:
In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating?

You really need to work on this whole, only the human animal has any thoughts or feelings and we have dominion over all bullshit. You have compared humans to other animals throughout your posts like it diminishes us in some way, yet you never give any reasoning for that besides your ancient fairy tales. All it shows us is your ignorance.

 

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 Wow, my feelings are hurt

 Wow, my feelings are hurt just a little seeing as how I apparently have none.


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rybak303 wrote:

rybak303 wrote:

If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have? In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating? If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

 

Easy, our idea of love does not include killing, torturing, maiming or forcing those we claim to love to worship us. It is a much more lovely idea of love.

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


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Welcome to the

Welcome to the forum.

rybak303 wrote:

If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have?

Love is an emotion. Define meaning.

rybak303 wrote:
In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating?

The physical attraction is the same. But, as intelligent beings, we can also appreciate someone's personality, intelligence, etc.

rybak303 wrote:
If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

The junkie is feeling the effects of a drug. Parents instinctively love their kids. 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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rybak303 wrote:

rybak303 wrote:

If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have? In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating? If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

 

Your questions only make sense if you think that all "series of reactions of chemicals in our brain" (or any brain) are the same thing.

Seriously, this is like asking : "If both bricks and boats are objects, then what's the difference between a brick and a boat ?"


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What is the meaning of life

What is the meaning of life to an atheist?

Rape, murder, genocide and recording the NFL without it's express written permission. That and I tore the tag off my mattress.

Or maybe the meaning of one's life is what one gives it. I simply don't apply magical fictional super heros in as my need to survive or my ability to find happiness.

Just like you don't need to believe that the sun is a thinking being with magical super powers like the ancient Egyptians falsely believed for 3,000 years. I think if you can survive in your daily life without their dead super heros and be happy without believing in those things, I don't think you need your superstition either. I simply think you like the idea of having a fictional super protector.

Are there any other stereotypes we can debunk for you?

 

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 Yep, he posted all the

 Yep, he posted all the exact same threads over at athiestforums.org


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Anonymouse wrote:rybak303

Anonymouse wrote:

rybak303 wrote:

If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have? In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating? If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

 

Your questions only make sense if you think that all "series of reactions of chemicals in our brain" (or any brain) are the same thing.

Seriously, this is like asking : "If both bricks and boats are objects, then what's the difference between a brick and a boat ?"

Who made that brick and boat? Everything has a creator, right? Grab your popcorn bucket whilst they ignore the problem with infinite regress.

(ME EDIT) I deleted my comment because I overlooked which section I was in. I will be more careful.

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ObsesoR wrote: Yep, he

ObsesoR wrote:

 Yep, he posted all the exact same threads over at athiestforums.org

Marketing doesn't take any self examination or testing, but a boat load of credulity.

It would suck if humans actually dared to question anything. I think it sucks that we now know the earth is a globe. I think it sucks that we have things like computers and medicine and telescopes. I think all humans should ever do is be the good little gang members daddy wants them to be. Gangs have never caused harm to humanity.

You bubble bursting rationalist you. How dare you point out that the moon is not made of cheese.

I hope I am not out of line with my sarcasm in this section. But it does get to me that people will post something and seem not to really want a response. If I may suggest that spammers be not allowed to hide in this section and only those who read and respond with the interest of debate.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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 Im confused, are you

 Im confused, are you talking to me?


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ObsesoR wrote: Im confused,

ObsesoR wrote:

 Im confused, are you talking to me?

Yes, I was talking to you being sarcastic about the original post. It is cruel of you to tell a believer the truth. Stop doing that. Linus needs his blanket.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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 Got ya! =)

 Got ya! =)


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rybak303 wrote: If God

rybak303 wrote:

If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have? In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating? If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

 

 

 As long as you seriously do not understand that just because we are atheist doesn't mean we aren't capable of love, I will try to answer this. First understand that we are human beings and that we are capable of love despite the label sometimes slapped on us that we have no feelings. Just like any other human being I do have maternal instincts and I do love my husband although he rakes my last nerve....a lot. Personally I love my children more than life itself and I would with no questions asked take any pain for them. I would absolutely give my life for any of my 3 children. I'm not sure if what you were saying was that you didn't understand that without god in  our lives meant that we aren't capable of loving anything but if so don't assume we aren't.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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 he leaves his

 he leaves his not-very-smart questions on several atheist websites and he does not seem to ever follow up on the comments.  I do not think it make much sense to argue with a troll. 

 

Edit: correction, he does it on both atheist and theist forums where he asks the same rhetorical questions just with the opposite sign like this: "How can the bible be the absolute truth if there is so much disagreement?" 

http://forums.faithtalk1500.com/m_4955800/printable.htm

This is either some kind of sociological study (???) or we need a doctor here.

 

Yes, and he never replies; at least, I could not find a single reply by him in a hundred new threads on a good dozen of forums.   And I found this just in 5 minutes.  .... robots attack! 

 


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Hi rybak,You ask about

Hi rybak,

You ask about meaning as if you expect meaning to be something seperate from the action that is being performed.

For example, what is the meaning of brushing my teeth, well it is to stop decay. When I was a little boy and my mam told me to brush my teeth, I did it because she wanted me to. Now I am older and I brush my teeth, not because my mam asked me too, but because I wish to prevent tooth decay. The purpose of brushing my teeth has no greater meaning for my teeth simply because my mother told me to.

Now, why do you see love as any different. What is love? It is not some amorphous entity that floats around seperate from people and their actions. Love is a description of certain actions. If a father plays with his children, feeds them, looks after their health, hugs them and in general cares for their well being we say he loves his children. However, if he beats them, ignores them, and generally gives not one fig for their well being, then despite any verbal claim he makes of loving his children, we know the claim is false! How? because his actions are not those that show love.

You ask if there is no God, where is the meaning, where is the love? It is still there, your God adds nothing to it, however, it does take something from it/

 

Your belief in God can be detrimental to love. Is it right to feed a starving child? Yes! I give 5% of my disposable income to Oxfam for this purpose. However, I do not do it because a God(s) tell me to do this as I do not believe in God(s). What difference does a god belief, or lack of it, make to the hungry child who is fed? Or would you want to say it is right to feed a starving child only because God says one should? Does not that diminish an act of charity? Ie, the reason to feed a starving child is not found in the simple horrible fact that the child is starving, but instead the reason is found in the God who commands it? That if there was no God there would be no reason to feed a starving child?

 

Please tell me what you think? Do you think that if there is no God there is no reason to feed a starving child? That seems to be the conclusion of what you write.

If the meaning is not found in the action then do you really want to say the action has no meaning in of itself. To be consistent, you would have to say there is no reason to feed the starving child in and of  itself?????? That only if God exists is there is a reason to feed the starving child. I find that morally repugnent.

If you say the reason for doing something is serperate from the object that is acted upon - you do not add value to the action or the object - you actually diminish both. If you say the reason for feeding the starving child is seperate from the need of the starving child - you do not add more value to the child - you diminish the child. You say the child's hunger is not reason enough. 

 

God belief not only does not give meaning to an action - however it can- and often does - devalue it!


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Love actually has much more

Love actually has much more meaning when it is the result of one's own volition, and not because of superstitious mandates, or derived from guilt...

Fortunately we atheists aren't conflicted by Holy writs that equate Love with punishment, pain, and torture...


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Wouldn't this whole idea

Wouldn't this whole idea make us incapable of hate as well? This would basicly mean a lack of care for anything I suppose. Just generic drone borg people milling around without the guiding hand of an invisible man.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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 People felt the emotion

 People felt the emotion equivalent to what we call 'love' before religion.


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Let's turn the question

Let's turn the question around.

What about an all powerful being living in an eternal,spiritual realm makes love more meaningful?

Seems like you're adding a middleman where none needs to be.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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rebecca.williamson

rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Wow, my feelings are hurt just a little seeing as how I apparently have none.

 

This is so epic Smiling


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I'm an idiot.

I'm an idiot.