Immigration and idiots
Offline I'm past tired of seeing idiots typing small items such as "your short history you are all immigrants." blah blah.
Number one, do normal people comparatively speak of all immigrants in relation to illegal immigrants? This is disgustingly retarded. (I said the R word, oh noes)
Number 2, My parents were born here, their parents were born here, and their parents before them. Now, what generation in an idiots eyes will no longer be considered "immigrants". I'm tempted to throw illegal on the back of that because they seem to not know a difference.
Number 3, I happen to like Arizonas newest immigration law, I think it is a little late but all this insane political correctness has allowed it to become a problem in the first place. I would guess most here actually disagree with the new law but, I wish Texas would employ it. Ron Paul in 2012 !
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
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That's a failing on the part of employers using cutthroat tactics to control costs. There's an argument implied there (not necessarily your intention) that Americans should be willing to lower their standards and be grateful for it. That's a robber baron mentality.
It's the part where we throw out presuming people are innocent until proven guilty and will most likely target people matching a certain description that's offensive. The fact that a bunch of people caught committing a crime are of a similar profile is not wrong. If N.J. police were just raiding the homes of people with Italian surnames and pulling over anyone wearing track suits and gold chains you'd have something there.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
A voice of reason and reality ^
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Dammit, Rich Woods!
Once again, someone on RRS has taken much of the wind out of the arguments I'm attempting to make - by making those same arguments themselves!
Also, your post is frustrating because I had you figured for a Dark-Irish/Mediterranean-French mix of ethnicity, which would mean we are both cousins in an awkward and vague sense, but it was mostly an after-thought.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
If you want to call killing people indiscriminatly "a violation of rights" yea, you would be right, lol.
Now, what exactly would you propose we do? Just let them in and do as they please?
When an officer of the law around here stops one for a traffic violation, did you know that there is so much time and paperwork involved that they often simply let them go? No ID or anything, they will just let them go. Yea two officers I know claim their hands are tied, one of them is a detective. there was a big stink about it a while back but the media seems to be hush hush about it now. That good ole media.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Yeah, pretty much. If they're just here to work and aren't doing something dangerous and / or destructive it's kind of a waste of resources to bust their asses. I think most of the regulation regarding this should be in making sure that better higher paying jobs are given to American citizens. For instance in order for a contractor to be licensed and bonded they need to be able to prove that everyone in their employ is a citizen.
And don't bother with that liberal media bullshit. Just because they don't tell you what you want to hear does not mean they're biased.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
I noticed the open-borders advocates have finally arrived in this thread. Took them long enough, heh...
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
I didn't actually start the thread to debate the law, I started it because I was tired of seeing morons using the most moronic reasoning they can seemingly think of to justify their "anger" in this politically correct country we have built.
Hindsight is on the couch next to me sipping a mikes hard lemonade, he says I should have put this in the politics section.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
You could always ask a mod like Spence to move it to politics; although I suspect you're too much of a poosy to do so.
(j/k...)
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Heh if we open the borders, you realize more than 1/2 of mexico would flood in overnight right? Keeping a piecemeal "well if you can sneak over it's ok" border policy seems ridiculous to me.
Do or do not, there is no try. -Yoda
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Yea I figured someone might follow the advice of my friend Hindsight, I suppose we all know him pretty well after all.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
And what would they do? There's only so much lettuce to pick and with measures in place to keep companies from hiring aliens and low-balling Americans there won't be enough work to make it worthwhile. How long would that last before they say fuck it and go back?
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
They are not all stupid ya know. Where do you work...=)
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
BINGO!
The point isn't that "I don't want to live next to them wetbacks hur-hyuk"; it's that economic migration is a burden on developed countries- regardless.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
What does their IQ have to do with anything?
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
My willingness to live next to them, for starters...
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
From what I glean there is no real "bingo" here. He is saying to make it ok for them to be here, which would make it ok for them to take up whatever jobs they could perform. If we had an open border and they could legally come on over, what is the sense in laws making it illegal for them to work? Open border would mean exactly that, legal immigration.
The other option is that we just let them continue as they are, growing in population and just see what happens? You can't see what's happening?
"Based on the national census in 2000, the US Census Bureau puts the estimate of illegal immigrants at 8.7 million. As of 2003, the US Citizenship and Immigration Services put the number at 7 million. Since then, United States immigration officials have said the number has grown by as much as 500,000 a year."
"I have said that Mexico does not stop at its border, that wherever there is a Mexican, there is Mexico," -Mexican President Calderón,just an interesting random quote.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
You may be viewing it through a strictly economic lens, but that doesn't do anything to mitigate the inherent racism of a law that allows police to use racial profiling to enforce existing laws and other citizens to sue if they think cops aren't doing enough. This allows some redneck who does have an issue with "wetbacks" to harangue law enforcement because they were in the vicinity of a brown person and didn't ask for their papers.
The entire point of the Constitution is to ensure that you can walk down the street and not get harassed and accused of committing a crime when there is no incriminating evidence.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
You said there is only so much lettuce to pick as if they couldn't do other more signifigant jobs.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Do you just stop reading my comments past "open the border"? I didn't say let them all come and do whatever the fuck they want. My friends are welcome to come over to my house and spend the night. They're not welcome to jerk off in my bed.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
I happen to live in a mexican neighborhood and I have some mexican friends, the ones I know are not really mexican they are americans and will shout it from the rooftops.
I must admit however the "AIY AIY AIY" around here on saturdays and holidays does get old though...
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I also said make it illegal for American employers to give them those jobs when there are American citizens available to do that work. Try not to oversimplify my point by claiming I said they can only work in the fields.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
Invite someone over who wants to mastubate and then expect them to not masturbate, hmm.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Sorry I was only going by what you said as far as the luttuce thing goes.
Many employers if given the opportunity will vie for the illegals, much cheaper labor = more profit, we live in a greedy world.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
And that's the crux of the immigration issue. They wouldn't be coming here if either a) Mexico had a stronger economy that paid decent living wages or b) they couldn't find so much work in America that pays better than back home while undercutting wages for American workers.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
See. You did it again! I didn't say they couldn't masturbate. I just said there's a line in the sand as to WHERE they can do it! Jesus. Fucking. Christ!
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
Bah you get my drift.
Anyway I sense this winding down and I feel like some cod4.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Btw, the a and b you listed could easily be set together as a, splitting hairs.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
My main thrust in that post was:
"My point being- ...leave all the retards, schizophrenics, simpletons, luddites, child molesters, charlatans, savages, and crazed eccentrics behind in whatever Earthly Fuckhole you originated from, and let them fend for themselves"
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Isn't that the image you try for here? (no sarcasm)
It went right over my head and got stuck in a tree, if you have another maybe we can use it to knock the first one back down
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Vaguely? I have some diseases of mental health (primarily mania exacerbated by SSRI antidepressants) that occasionally manifest poorly/rear their ugly heads online, but they take 2nd row to the image of someone "Who isn't afraid to express their opinion online regardless of harsh, infantile rebuttal by undoubtedly weaker minds (read: "Then you stand impressed" by Answers) , and of a person who isn't trying to win anyone's heart, and especially not a popularity contest with other (atheists?) - I *hate* popularity contests, but I hate being socially acceptable even more.
All of that out of the way...
I think it's helpful to understand that the person I portray myself as online, and the person I am IRL... are very separate creatures indeed.
(hint: I'm usually very introverted-though-not-actually-shy, have a shut-in life-style, and interact with others ONLY if I feel I can somehow profit from the encounter. I also don't suffer the company of idiots kindly IRL either
)
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
I have the idea most people are more introverted irl than online. It's possible that what is deep down comes out online.
Play some WoW and discover there are a lot of assalopes out there, there are some nice people too but they are generally shouted down by, the assalopes. Loot whores, kill stealers, corpse campers, noob killers etc etc. Some of these online games are an open invite for jerks to be jerks. I am always the nice guy, it's not to garner attention or anything it's just the way I roll.
I spend way too much time playing on forums and other online activities which I believe is an indicator for being an introvert, but you likely have me beat Kap.
I really don't give a shit what people think about my opinions, though it is a breath of fresh air when someone has the sense to share it
You have a lot more fun online when you realize most everyone is doing the same thing you are and you are not going to change minds. The best you can do in a productive way is to simply make people aware that everyone does not think the way they do. Some people seem to truly not understand this concept.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I'd be careful with that... the entirety of RRS is based on "exchange of ideas".
Quite a few more individuals -atheists and even RRS'ers included- are not used to having their preconceived notions challenged.
As it turns out: I'm more then capable of challenging the faulty notions of others - including a Certain Canadian's who has proven himself to be none-too-rational at all.
(Like I said in another thread- He wants to bomb a nuclear power into the stone age.)
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Changing minds and exchanging idea's are not quite the same animal ><
Edit: and I look forward to being challenged, in my op I made a guess that most people on this forum would probably disagree with me. In my experience atheists tend to lean further left than right. Ok so I was gonna say something cute and nasty about something leaning left but I held the ole backspace button and took care of that. I realize I usually only amuse myself, but at least I do accept it as such.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I kinda still wish you would say something cute and nasty about ANYTHING leaning left...
...but that's just me.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
You know I don't mind divulging in a bit of personal info but there is a line, I'm standing on it, looking at the other side. The crazy people live on the other side and the grass is purple. I am armed however so, I don't really care, but that purple grass does kinda bother me...
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
In the US that's really hard to tell, perhaps when someone else thinks you are getting away with something that they can't.
Americans disregard most if not all of the following laws:
Speed limits
Stop signs
Driving Under the Influence
Tax laws - claim so much bullshit deductions especially in regards to charities and self employment
Drug laws - the largest cash crop in Florida isn't oranges by a long shot
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
You're of latino descent and you've used the word "spic" in frank conversation? Nah... doesn't figure.
I must be missing the punchline in this.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Yea you have to go much deeper, down to the core where the seeds lie dormant and snug, secure in their own self imposed shackles. Crazy people could be a euphamism for general insanity, purple grass could be a result of the treadings of such insanity. Being armed could mean I have a means of defending against such insanity should the need arise. I had hoped you would pick up on it.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I'm latino and I live in Florida where everyone knows someone who is here illegally. Our fair state is a cesspool of double standards, cocaine cowboys, and secret wars. I'll tell you one thing talking to illegal immigrants on a daily basis, there is nothing, nothing that you can do to stop them from coming in. There determination to live a better life or to have a chance to be alive at all is much greater than any law the US can pass. I understand the US needs to come down hard on immigration because it would be chaos if they just let anyone in. But at the same time if you where in the Mexicans situation you would do the exact same thing regardless of any threat to "go back to your shitty country." Think of it in a Darwinian sense, survival of the fittest. Also don't think Mexico is fucked up on it's own we helped out alot in making there society a shithole. Can you say MONROE DOCTRINE. Contra adventures in Mex
Noam Chomsky: American Foreign Policy in Latin America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnhmq9Hl0qY
We do that to every country we can get away with though.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
You do NOT understand what you are talking about, sorry.
Green card is a PERMANENT resident document.
Perhaps, you wanted to talk about temporary workers visas. Please make yourself a favor, learn what the matter you are talking about.
The problem is that the US visa policy is one of the least transparent and straightforward in the civilized world. Even if you manage to fulfill all the requirements to qualify for a visa (it might not be easy at all for a Mexican temporary worker), it will take you several months at best to get an actual visa, which can be critical for a temporary job.
I think that US DHS (USCIS) policies regarding temporary workers should be overhauled.
Number one. I agree on this. Dumb people may think of immigrants as of all illegals ... though the majority of US citizens do have recent immigrant roots.
Number two. In my "idiotic" eyes, natives only are pure non-immigrants.
Number three. I would have a BIG problem with law like the new Arizona's anti-immigrant law. The law, as far as I have learned from intense discussions does not add nmuch to already existing federal laws and policies. The BIG problem is that the law requires WRONG (untrained) people to perform federals' job.
Personally, I remember a state clerk who literally accused me of being in the country illegally based on his total failure to understand my status. Presented with a passport with a standard entrance document in it (for a permanent resident), the clerk declared that I could NOT get such a document on the border. When asked to call my lawyer, the response from one other clerk was "you always have lawyers." Wow, and now I know why!
Border control, and immigration policies and enforcement must NOT be delegated to state officials.
lol. Okay, my more Conservative side is going to be coming out in this post:
I'm from Texas and I've had to deal with plenty of jerks who make the insane claim that Texas belongs to Mexico. What a bunch of hogwash. I believe in survival of the fittest. There was not one, but two wars to settle this issue and my side won twice.
Our state. Our country. Our laws. I have nothing against legal immigration. Illegal immigration is a different story however. I also don't like that I have to push 1 for English, I don't like seeing all these signs in spanish around me and I don't feel like I should ever have to know any other language other then english. This is the United States of America.
.....Fuck Texas.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
Number 1, ok
Number 2, when will americans actually BE americans, when they are born here? Oh wait most of um already are. When I have sex with a cherokee indian and have kids? lol
Number 3, The biggest difference the law makes is that now police can ask instead of..yea NOT ask for fear of racial profiling, which is a politically correct joke on us, as I mentioned already.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
+1 for nutxaq .
"I don't feel like I should ever have to know any other language other then english." <--- I can see why apparently one language is difficult enough for you. How uniquely American.
I know, we should have a healthcare debate next, that will be productive and informative too.
I'm writing a term paper about internet technology and political socialization, and I just keep getting depressed. Was political debate this...well, retarded, before the Internet?
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
you are very likely a high-functioning autistic, but you don't seem so proud of that fact in front of NTs (neurotypicals)
I would be, if I had proof.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
So out of curiosity, everyone is willing and happy to learn spanish and possibly go with a language swap? Or we could have a canada situation I guess, the south could be spanish america and the north would be english america? Hmm, possibilities. Everything already has both english and spanish labelling for marketing purposes.
We had a real nice supermarket here in a spanish theme, everything was in spanish targeting, yea the latino population. It lasted a year and closed up. I only went in once, the music and sales and all were in spanish, and I don't know spanish. The one time I went in, there were not really any latino's* there shopping.
We should perhaps allow them to fly the flag of mexico over the american flag, would that make me unamerican if I didn't care?
For people with the "fuck texas" idea I happen to live here, so are you saying "fuck me" ?
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin