I'm In Complete Disbelief
Offline I cannot believe how, for lack of a better word, lame Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort are. This post will not live up to the lofty conversations posted here that I have read. It will not dig deep into the chemistry and science of a delusional mind. It will however clear my conscience (like taking a good dump) after watching an ABC airing of a 2007 debate between the RRS and what can only be described as a couple of clowns.
Kirk Cameron describes himself as being an atheist prior to finding religion. He related to one of the RRS debaters as "being just like you before I found Christ". The way he put it, and I am paraphrasing here, "I had everything, lots of money, fame, (Greek for lots of girls) and a very successful TV show". In his demented little mind, he equates a life of immature self indulgence as a child of privilege, an atheistic lifestyle. Then he goes into the public and promotes that image to the masses, hoping to hook more non-thinkers. Nothing could be a more inaccurate definition of who I and my family are (and all atheists we know) as atheists and we resent his depiction of us with the heat of a nova.
I have to admit that I was angry that the RRS didn't correct Kirk's definition of atheism and call him exactly what he was which is a punk teenager with piles of cash. I grew up in Westlake Village as did Kirk. I know him. Everyone that lived there knew Kirk. He was NOT an atheist. He was just like most teens living in that area. Son's and daughters of upper-upper middle class excects and entrepreneurs, living a life of uncultured privilege, and add to that the fact that he was what a lot of mindless drones want, he was famous.
At one point Kirk, in an attempt to scoff and make fun of evolution, showed a couple of artists renderings of "transitional" life forms, in an effort to make fun of the very reason he is able to stand at the podium and speak to the crowd. They were silly pictures of half/half animals. Half duck half alligator pictures that "showed" there was no such thing as a transitional fossil or life form. All life is a transitional life form. Why is it that creationists outright lie to anyone that will listen? Are they really looking for the half starfish, half Governor of Alabama transitional fossil?? Could they be so unprepared and uninformed as to REALLY believe that what scientists are looking for is a half snail, half big gulp Slurpee transitional fossil??? Are they insane?
Ray Comfort... do I need to continue? He blazed the trail, that always ends badly for creationists, and made reference that cars are designed, so there must be a designer. We all know the way this ends. But what cracked me up was his analogy wherein, if you were able to bring to the future, a person from 100 years ago and show them a TV that was airing a news show. His imaginary guy from the past would never be able to understand, never grasp that the guy on the TV wasn't a guy IN the TV, but in a studio hundreds of miles away and his image was being shown on TVs in every home. His stupid imaginary friend from the past must have been a distant relative of his. This type of thing happens all the time. The first time televisions were offered to consumers in the 20s, they had never heard of TV, never seen a TV, yet they took to it without the simplistic stupidity that Ray contends people would fight with. Ray is a spokesperson for creationism and the existence of a god? If I were a creationist, I think I would kick him off the team.
All in all it was pretty hilarious. But for the record, atheists are loving, caring, hard working, empathetic, sympathetic, funny, trusting, ethical, members of a society that calls us un-American. And for the record, I'm getting pretty sick of that hypocrisy, Kirk.
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Because they can't get anyone to listen to them by telling the truth, since the truth would outline how full of bullshit everything they say is.
Why do you think Prop 8 (outlawing gay marriage in California again, if you don't know) actually passed? I normally hate the government and anything directly involved with it that I can completely avoid, but I made it a point to look into the campaigns that the pro-8 people were running. I knew a lot of people (mostly through work) that were either theists or agnostics, and generally didn't care about any of that kind of stuff either, maybe cared even less than me. When the topic of Prop 8 was brought up, I heard repeatedly from almost everyone I knew that they are voting for it - not because they care about gay marriage, really, but because without the proposition passing, their children would be educated about the details of gay marriage in schools.
That's an outright lie.
All of the pro-8 people campaigned to everyone that with the new legislation allowing gay marriage came an explicit declaration that all children will be taught about it in public school systems. They had commercials that blatantly stated this to try and scare people (since they were actually trying to say it wasn't about being religious). With the unthinking majority also being the voting majority, Prop 8 thusly passed, because of lies told by Christians. Good game.
'Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. God wants you to go to war.'
When that prop went through. To be honest I wasn't all that surprised because of the demographic shift in the state towards the conservative. I have seen my brother, my friends ( I was born and raised in CA from 57 to 91, then moved to OR) all go biblical on me. Funny thing though, when they went conservative religious on me, they also became so completely intolerant of everyone around them. The last conversation I had with my brother was in Nov. just before the election when Bush was running the second time, he didn't leave 1 minority out of his hateful bigoted rant. I never spoke to him again, and he was my best friend.
I think we have lost CA as a true Blue state. Los Angeles, is mostly Hispanic Catholic, really from Camarillo to San Diego is absurdly conservative, and any outlying areas are usually right wingers. Northern CA is all that is left of the large pockets of free thinking liberals.
It's quite amazing, the combination of TV and lazy thinking.
I think you'll always have trouble with the transitionals. The fossil record is so piecemeal that is can really never give the sort of exact transitionals the god-people want. Funny that christians are prepared to deal with blurred edges everywhere else (like a completely invisible deity) but pull out their microscopes when it comes to the utterly inviolate fossil record. This is something that seriously shits me. Another thing you no doubt know is that the term 'species' is really a designation to help us label critters - in real life species move forward in time in a thread-like line with successful creatures occupying their niches and creatures that develop to manage other niches moving off on a parallel and separately evolving branch. Species then, are constantly fluid and can't really be labeled for all time. Christians and muslims will stoutly refuse to understand the possibility of this simple-to-understand model and insist evolution must work sideways from living creatures they subjectively decide are inferior versions of man. But behold. Their intelligence is not fully developed.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Kirk Cameron describes his "atheism" in the exact manner I mention on another post. He was not really an atheist, he just didn't CARE either way. He ignored religion, he doesn't say anything about talking to anyone about how he did not believe in a god or anything, he just didn't CARE. He obviously cares now that his career sux ass.
Ray comfort suffers from self induced blindness, an obvious sheep, but he is smart enough to make a bit of cash out of religion.
The most devout are either the stupidest people, or the smartest, and in most of the smart cases they don't actually believe, they have found a cash cow, and it's tax exempt.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I'd be careful with that claim, we lambast theists all the time for Scotsman fallacies on similar grounds. I'd say he might have been an atheist, but he was not an atheist who had put much thought into his belief.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
This is always what I've thought based on my observations.
Nothing Kirk does surprises me.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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I'm saying I actually know Kirk, lived in Westlake when he walked and talked in Westlake. I feel like I am trying to prove the existence of him LOL
which parallels what he is doing.... Kirk was NOT an atheist. This is a fabrication he made up to "show" Christians that he can "relate" to the atheists mind and actions. He does this to set up a definition to Christians as to what an atheist actually is. Since Christians like to follow the word of their leaders and are too lazy to read and accept the true definition, they go with Kirks, which is something close to : People that snort coke off the a$$ of a $10,000 a night hooker..... every day. He was a Christian at a VERY young age, well before he knew the difference between an atheism and a Christianity.
He always thought himself better and smarter than others around him. The only evidence I have, other than personal experience is when, among other things, at 17 years old he began dictating that the story lines on his, very tame TV show, be stripped of anything too adult. Even at that time Kirk was attempting to censor what people see and hear. Stories that unfold in homes all over this country.... yeah, lets not talk about that, shall we. Lets talk about gOd.
.............no regular here believes Kirk was EVER an atheist. It is just a story he tells. Can YOU tell us about growing up in Westlake. We all heard stories about Kirk preaching christianity on the set of Growing pains and the cast and crew he use to irritate the living crap out of. Your story is very credible here. Now tell us of Westlake.
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Maybe ray comfort is just a fairly smart man trying desperately to defend something he knows is bullshit to keep his "ball rollin."
Yea I wonder how many long time preachers really believe their own carp. I can't get enough of this guy:
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin