Let me start by first Stating my beliefs.
I would like to start off by saying, I am of course an atheist, I have been one my whole life, I NEVER ONCE believed that there was a supernatural being that created or cares about interpersonal lives of human beings and keeps a check list of right and wrong doings. Now if you want to add in what was written by previous civilizations, we were on an evolutionary path, until an alien intervention, recorded by the first people to create writing and first recorded history as well as many other things we still use today.
I think that is where atheists fall short in debunking religious criteria. Why, if you going to use historical accounts to debunk Jesus and the non-existence of a supernatural all powerful being, don't you bring into account the intervention of the Anunnaki to the Sumerian civilization? They TELL us how the world was created, which is substantiated by scientific proof.
I just got done watching the debate between this websites organization and the Way of the Master, seen on, I am assuming, ABC sometime in the recent past, which is a direct result of how I came to this site. I noticed that NOTHING was brought up about the Sumerians. Why is this? I would think, if your going to debunk the bible, you HAVE to challenge religious people to where (other than god) this information originated. I mean, why for instance is god vengeful? Why is he many things that can be attributed to human characteristics? An all powerful being, would NOT have these attributes, BUT, an alien race, thought to be god or gods by primitive man, WOULD. They possibly have these attributes and may have passed them on to us. A being with power of time, space, immortality, evolved past the point of human morality. Furthermore, if creating us, why would he instill that into human beings. But. if we were genetically created from an evolving huminoid species on the planet by ET's, that would certainly explain why we have stories of a god that DOES have these characteristics and also why we ourselves have them as well. Do you think pre-humans were walking around concerned about killing and raping before the intervention of thinking man? Do you think lions or other animals on the planet, that do not have this capacity for morality, think they are doing wrong when they kill for food, or kill for territory, or kill for dominence? Of course they don't.
If we take what the Sumerians say as fact, which I DO, then it explains most everything in the process of our evolution and how thinking man came to be on this planet. Do you know why you don't bring this information up when debating? I will tell you why, religious people already think we are nuts, and the skeptics on both sides, will shun away from anything that is outside the norm of conversation. But to get to the truth, WE MUST start to put this information about previous cultures which state alien intervention into our discussions. I mean think about it, where did ancient peoples notions of beliefs in many gods come from? It came from Sumer, at least until we find historical proof of an earlier civilizations recording accounts of the same stories.
I also just listened to a radio broadcast of a debate ( if you want to call it that ) between Kelly and Matt Slick, I would have to say darling, as much as you tried, you got your ass kicked. You did not debate that well and I don't think after listening to it yourself, would disagree. Not once, and I haven't gotten done listening to the whole show, did you say anything about the apostes NOT writing the gospels, which they didn't. Noone who was alive or who knew Jesus, put one word in the New Testament. Yet you never said anything about this too him. WHY? I would think that would have been the first thing to say. I mean, I think thats pretty important that at least one generation past the time of Jesus, were the authors of his teachings. Especially knowing that humans cannot pass one story to another without changing it slightly. Also you didn't mention anything about how the bible has changed MANY times over 2000 years. Nor did you mention this when discussing this topic on ABC with Kirk and Ray. I believe in what you are doing and I support it, but how you come across, comes out in an argumentitive way, without using knowledge to back up what you are saying, or at least NOT ENOUGH knowledge. I mean simple question to ask a religious person, WHY WOULD A BEING OF ENORMOUS POWER care about one planet among an infinite amount of planets? Are humans the only intelligent existing life in the universe? If not, does that mean we will be sharing heaven/hell with other alien beings? Another simple question to ask, if they believe that this life is temporary, and heaven is everlasting bliss, why doesn't every religious person kill themselves so they can be in heaven with god?
I have asked very good questions and made some comments of my own, hopefully I can get some feed back from people on this site as I am new.
A refresher for people not in the know:
Old Testament: Stories that were written by Ancient Sumerians, Babylonians, Akkadians, at least 2000 years before the bible.
Noah's ark story
The bible says god created everything approx. 6 thousand years ago, SAME TIME THE SUMERIANS wrote down all of this. Coincidence?
New Testament: Stories written by people of a generation past when Jesus lived. Do you think these stories were not changed to make him divine? Did he exist as a man? Most likely. But he wasn't divine. He was a man, plain and simple. Only after the council of nicea was he depicted in the bible as the son of god. Btw, the stuff that was not accepted in the bible, were stories of alien intervention, thought to be to heretic to be kept in the bible.
Example: The Book of Enoch
Homo sapiens: The successful deciphering of a female Neanderthal genome was reported in the journal Science on February 13, 2009. The project, undertaken by scientists at the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig, Germany, aimed to verify when that failed species of humans and Homo sapiens (= Modern Man) branched off, and whether the two bad ever interbred. The New York Times pointed out that the new findings "document two important sets of genetic changes - those that occurred between 5.7 million years ago, when the human line split from the line leading to chimpanzees, and 300,000 years ago when Neanderthals and the ancestors of modern humans parted ways."
|"ENKI", "NIBIRU" DOMINATE "2012" SYMPOSIUM |
According to reports in the European press, "Enki" and "Nibiru" themes dominated a symposium held in Basel. Switzerland, on October 18, 2008, to discuss the ramifications of the "2012" prophecies.
The gathering, attended by some 250 participants from across Europe, was in support of "Project Cheops", an initiative begun in 2001 in Poland to find the "Enki Connection" in Giza and Hawara in Egypt which – according to the speakers – "will enable Mankind to avert the looming 2012 catastrophies that will be caused by the return of Nibiru." "Project Cheops," according to these reports, is supported by scientists from the universities of Wroczlaw (Breslau) in Poland and Cairo in Egypt.
The locations for the search for the "Enki Connection" have been indicated by Lucyna Lobos, a Polish seer, who in a keynote address at the symposium asserted that the god Enki had left at those sites instructions how to create an Earth Shield to protect our planet from the catastrophic effects of the looming proximity of the returning planet Nibiru, alias Planet X. She warned that efforts must be accelerated to find this data and create the shield before 2012.
The Enki/Nibiru themes are, of course, borrowed from Zecharia Sitchin's books, which are published in Poland by Wydawnictwo Prokop of Warsaw. The University of Wroclaw, a major academic center in Poland, has invited Zecharia to a Sitchin Studies Day in 2009.
| Extrasolar Planets|
EXCITING DISCOVERY IN THE SOUTHERN FISH
Two astronomical discoveries concerning extrasolar planets made news on November 14, 2008. While both reaffirm what Zecharia Sitchin had suggested, more than 30 years ago, in The 12th Planet, one of the discoveries has amazing aspects that corroborate - and even explain - details of ancient 'myths'.
'Extrasolar planets' is the term used to call planets not in our Solar System, orbiting stars other than our Sun. Since the beginning of this century, more than 300 extrasolar planets have been found; but they have never been actually seen: Their existence has been surmised from gravitational tugs or other effects on their parent stars. The exciting news now is that two teams of NASA astronomers have managed to actually see and photograph such extrsolar planets, thereby confirming the existence of other solar systems in the universe.
The pictures by the first team show not one but three planets - a veritable planetary system - orbiting the star HR8799 in the distant constellation Pegasus; the second team's pictures show a planet, estimated to be roughly three times Jupiter's mass, orbiting the bright star Fomalhaut.
Sitchin's Audacious Assertion
That planets might orbit stars other than our Sun has been theoretically held possible, though doubtful, for some time; but it was only in 1988 that Canadian astronomers attained the first-ever confirmed discovery of one such planet - a confirmation that was achieved only in 2003.
Yet it was years earlier, when The 12th Planet was published in 1976, that Zecharia Sitchin made the audacious assertion that not only do extrasolar planets exist, but that other planetary systems can come into being, exist, and can also meet a violent end. He reached that conclusion by treating the Mesopotamian Epic of Creation Enuma elish not as an allegorical myth of Good v. Evil (as other scholars do) but as a sophisticated cosmogony scientifically relating our Solar System's history.
Thus treated, he wrote, the text tells that our Solar System, when still in its early phase, was invaded by a foreign planet thrust out of its own solar system; eventually passing near our Solar System, it was pulled in by gravitational forces, ending up (after a collision) as a member of our Solar System. The Summaerians named it Nibiru; the Babylonians renamed it Marduk in honor of their national god. That scenario, which explains a host of astronomical enigmas, was illustrated in the book by several diagrams, including Fig. A:
Astounding Links to Ancient Legends
Amazingly, several highly intriguing aspects of NASA's discoveries mesh with ancient knowledge (what many deem myths or legends).
The second team's newly discovered world orbits the bright southern star Fomalhaut, whose name (coming from Arabic) means 'The Fish's Mouth'. Very bright, it is the lead star in the constellation Piscis Australis - "The Southern Fish." Situated below (i.e. south of) the larger constellation Aquarius ("the Water Bearer", it has been traditionally depicted as a fish nourished by water pouring down from the jar of Aquarius, and linking it to the larger neighboring constellation Pisces (that is depicted by two fishes).
As Greek and Roman astronomers going back to the 3rd century B.C. attested, these three constellations were deemed to occupy the 'watery zone' of Neptune in the heavens - a tradition going back to ancient Mesopotamia which associated the three with the god E.A. ("He whose home is water", the original god of the Seas and their Fishes (see Fig. B). Greek savants also quoted the tale by the Babyloniam priest Berossus of the divine Fish-man 'Oannes' who had waded ashore from the Persian Gulf and gave Mankind civilization. These details dovetail with Sumerian texts according to which EA (later also knowns as ENKI) was the leader of the first group of astronauts from Nibiru who splashed down in the Persian Gulf and waded ashore, dressed as Fishmen (Fig. C).
Uncanny Explanation of a Sumerian Puzzle
NASA's discovery of a large planet orbiting the lead star in the Southern Fish constellation may even go beyond fitting in with ancient 'myths' - it might actually explain an enigmatic passage in Enuma elish.
The text - treated by Sitchin literally, not as allegory - describes the formation of our Solar System's various planets, ending with "EA" (which we call by its Roman name Neptune) as the outermost. It then ascribes to EA/Neptune the feat of "begetting" into our Solar System the alien planet that came into being elsewher - "in the heart of the Deep." yet although "engendered" far away, 'Marduk' was considered to have a genetic link to EA as his son.
Could then the Deep where Marduk was engendered mean not simply Outer Space, but a specific constellation belonging to EA's celestial realm - such as the Southern Fish?
The Origin of Our DNA?
If so, the new discovery reveals not just from where Nibiru/Marduk had come. Since (according to Enuma elish) it brought the "Seed of Life" (DNA) into our Solar System - the discovery also indicates the source where lifegiving DNA can be found. It is a short 25 light years away - "close enough to contemplate sending spacecraft there." Dr. Paul Kalas, one of the new planet's discoverers, told the New York Times. He could be right in more ways than he realizes.
Inconvenient News From The Moon
News, as much of everything else, needs luck to succeed. News, more than anything else, has no chance of success if it is inconvenient-and especially so, if it happens to be true.
Case in point: Latest discoveries concerning the the MOON.
The Moon- Earth's constant companion-has baffled modern astronomers all along. It is much too large to have been Earth's natural satellite, yet it is almostas old as the Earth. How did it come about? The prevailing explanation is The Giant Impact Theory: An errant celestial body ( an asteroid, a meteor) struck Earth and threw off a piece of Earth that in time rounded itself out to be the Moon. There have been problems with this explanation: The Moon's should then be, but is not, similar to that of Earth. And what happened to the impactor? The answer was: it evaporated in the immense heat caused by the impact. Not really convincing, especially since the recent calculation show that the "meteor" had to be about the size of the planet Mars.
In Sitchin's books The 12th Planet and Genesis Revisited he said: How about the Sumerian Scenario? Treating the 'Epic of Creation' not as an allegorical myth but as a sophisticated cosmogony, the ancient text spoke of a celestial collision in which an invader (Nibiru) destroyed the large and watery planet Tiamat, causing half of it to become Earth and its main satellite to become Earth's Moon. That's what Sitchin said. Did any astronomer pay attention? If at all, then not publicly, for acceptance meant accepting Nibiru and the Anunnaki and Extraterrestrials, and the rest of that nonsense....
Now, tucked away on page 170 of the July 10th 2008 issue of the Journal Nature I came across a headline that should be on the front of all major newspapers (but is not): THE EARLY MOON WAS RICH IN WATER.
As the prestigious journal itself explains, a group of six american SCIENTISTS, using new technologies, have found evidence in Moon rocks that when the Moon formed, it had water among its 'volatiles'. By 'volatiles' scientists refer to basic components that evaporate when subjected to heat. As the journal points out in the introduction to the scientific report, the volatiles had to evaporate in the great heat created if a "Mars-sized body" hit the early Earth. The new data runs "counter to the classic image of lunar geochemistry," the journal admits.
This is scientific revolution. But I know of no major newspaper, radio or TV channel, or just a wire service, that has picked up this sensational but inconvenient news.
Sitchin's Audacious Assertion
I) That planets might orbit stars other than our Sun has been theoretically held possible, though doubtful, for some time; but it was only in 1988 that Canadian astronomers attained the first-ever confirmed discovery of one such planet - a confirmation that was achieved only in 2003.
II) Yet it was years earlier, when The 12th Planet was published in 1976, that Zecharia Sitchin made the audacious assertion that not only do extrasolar planets exist, but that other planetary systems can come into being, exist, and can also meet a violent end. He reached that conclusion by treating the Mesopotamian Epic of Creation Enuma elish not as an allegorical myth of Good v. Evil (as other scholars do) but as a sophisticated cosmogony scientifically relating our Solar System's history.
III) Thus treated, he wrote, the text tells that our Solar System, when still in its early phase, was invaded by a foreign planet thrust out of its own solar system; eventually passing near our Solar System, it was pulled in by gravitational forces, ending up (after a collision) as a member of our Solar System. The Summaerians named it Nibiru; the Babylonians renamed it Marduk in honor of their national god. That scenario, which explains a host of astronomical enigmas, was illustrated in the book by several diagrams, including Fig. A:
I) The existence of planets outside our solar system is very important, BUT it does NOTHING (ABSOLUTELY NOTHING) with the following two paragraphs.
II) "He reached that conclusion by treating the Mesopotamian Epic of Creation Enuma elishnot as an allegorical myth of Good v. Evil (as other scholars do) but as a sophisticated cosmogony scientifically relating our Solar System's history."
This tells us that this guys simply rejected ALL knowledge between obtained by humans in the period from the Mesopotamian Epic of Creation till our days.
How did the paths of solar system planets change before and after the collision. You must provide the reference to precise calculations. Show me your "money".
Without any respect,
So, You See, As Nibiru Orbits…
No, that is not (yet) a quote from a report in the scientific journal Nature, but that is what the conclusion is of a study by six astronomers (including one from a NASA institute) published in the Journal's July 16, 2009 issue.
The Asteroid Belt between Mars and Jupiter is presumed to be the remnant of 'something' that was there and broke up. So how come it includes bits and pieces of matter found only in the outer reaches of the Solar System? The enigma is compounded by the fact that these strange bits and pieces contain organic-rich matter. The group's findings: These are bits and pieces of "primordial trans-Neptunian objects" left in the Asteroid Belt as orbiting 'comets' or 'cometlike objects' pass through it and collide with its asteroids, leaving behind a 'footprint'.
Substitute 'Nibiru' with its "organic-rich matter" for "comets or cometlike objects" as it passes periodically through the Asteroid Belt, and you get the true answer -- another instance of modern science catching up with ancient knowledge.
I have provided the some of the evidence, anyone can find "holes" in this evidence. You either choose to believe it or not. I guess in that way, it is somewhat like that of believing the stories of the bible and the "God" theory. But I must say, there is more substantial proof of what I speak of versus the bible. If you cannot be open minded and think it's even POSSIBLE, nothing I show you will convince you. With that said, you have made your opinions clear, no need to poke holes anymore, since I have previously stated that there is ALWAYS going to be opposing sides. If you need concrete proof (example: spaceship landing on the lawn of the white house) then you will always be one who denounces these theories. BTW, the history taught in our schools, regarding the pyramids of Egypt and other other unexplained places around the world, being taught as fact, can also be debunked by people on the other side of the coin. When you have millions of people in our modern times, recording unexplained UFO sightings, they ALL can't be wrong.
All of this time, I have tried to point out one thing. This IS POSSIBLE, whether its true or not is most certainly up for debate. BUT IT IS POSSIBLE and to call it bullshit, shows your inept ignorance in the face of factual circumstantial PROOF.
I'd agree with the possibility of alien life forms existing but would argue the distances involved are so monumental it's hard to imagine such creatures turning up in convenient times past and then disappearing in what, from a universe point of view, must be considered a very short period of time. Having bothered to get here it's hard to imagine they would just skive off like the jetsons for another intergalactic show and tell in Andromeda. There seems to me little in the ancient world that is impossible when you consider modern humans have been running about slowly building up their stores of cultural knowledge for tens, possible up to 100,000 years or more.
I think culture 'appears' at that time humans developed the ability to lock it into place with carved stonework and metal jewelry. There must surely be a long history of cultural development that sits behind these things. They cannot have simply sprung into being fully formed after polytech lectures from aliens. Sure - this is just my opinion. But before ancients built in granite and marble, they built in mud-brick and timber. Who knows what contributing cultures ten thousand years of termites and drizzle have nibbled away?
It's fair to say that many of our key modern technologies are accidental or coincidental juxtapositions of lessons across multiple disciplines - bridge building, ship building, aerodynamics, biology, medical science, metallurgy, computing. All these things feed off each other in multiple interconnected ways. The idea things would have been different in the past rings false to me.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck