An Atheist attending a christian university.

tj04011
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An Atheist attending a christian university.

Hello all.

I attend a private four year christian university in Nashville, TN. It's difficult  being an atheist and attending a church of christ school. When I began attending this school three years ago, I was a Christian. I've decided that being an atheist now better fits my belief system. I'm seeking support. Atheists are truly and  unequivocally looked down on at this institution. There are very few of us here. In fact, I only know one other atheist on campus. We are looked down on with a benign pity, or faced with anger. People here are incredibly attached to their religion and are so close minded it's amazing. I have someone tell me recently that she would rather be ignorant here on earth than miss out on her heavenly reward. It's actually quite disturbing; the willful ignorance that exists and the lack of thought. I used to be a Christian, so now as a recent atheist I'm happy now with that decision other then peoples disgust at this institution.

I was sick of being told if I was a christian I shouldn't or wouldn't have certain beliefs or think a certain way. Apparently supporting gay marriage is anti-christian, though jesus says nothing about it in the new testament, and to believe in god you have to believe, and act a certain way without exception. I refuse to conform. I think that if being a good person doesn't come to you naturally, it certainly can't/shouldn't be forced through fear of death and an afterlife.
 

At this university we take a bible courses 6 semesters out of 8, chapel twice a week, and for new incoming students, forced to perform community service. I can only be extremely grateful that I graduate in 2 semesters. I hate it here now. The people who enjoy being here don't have a desire to think for themselves. I'm glad that I've admitted how I feel. I think it's ironic that learning more about the bible, the history, culture and language of the time period it was written, has made it clear to me the contradictions that are clear in the bible, as well as with major christian religions. I find much fault and little logic especially with the church of christ. 

I found this forum by googling about the difference between agnosticism and atheism. I hope to receive some support for my new belief systems.

Thanks!

TJ

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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Wow. What a great

Wow. What a great testimony(so to speak).

 

Do you feel pretty pressured to pretend to be christian just to finish your degree? I wouldn't worry about dropping out, a degree from a bible college is even more worthless than one from a secular school.

So are you atheist or agnostic?

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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welcome

 

 

 

               I admire your back bone and wisdom for being able to turn atheist  at a religio university and telling other students about it.  Are you at least finnished attending bible classes.  Your updated take on bible study could help in our frequint relious debates.

 

 

               Has a personal question do you think the rabbi who quoted the Beatitudes is the same person quoted in Matt; 10 : 36?

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Welcome to the forum!I come

Welcome to the forum!

I come from the opposite end of the spectrum, grew up without religion in a very secular place, Sweden. It may amuse you to tell the christians at your school that people like me literally see no difference between christian stories and Beowulf, Brothers Grimm or Norse mythology. They all have equal amounts of evidence to claim any authority: none.


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hey EXC

I'm not entirely sure if I'm agnostic or an atheist. From what I understand agnosticism is the belief that god can't really be disproven or proven, while atheism is the belief that god cannot exist. I think I'm leaning more toward atheism at this point.

It is a little scary to break a paradigm that you've had for most of your life. But I'm much happier accepting my questioning, then blindly accepting what others are telling me is true.

I do feel ashamed sometimes confronted by people here about my beliefs, though I'm growing more comfortable with it. It is a temptation to lie about it, just to fit in with the majority, and not worry about their hate or disgust. I'm only two semesters away from graduation so I'm not worried about dropping out at this point. I'm just going to finish as quickly as possible.

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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Hi Jeffrick

I'm done with bible classes this semester. This has been the most close minded one so far. It has been a bit difficult. Telling people about it is difficult, because they are totally unaccepting of any beliefs other than their own. They to rationalize absolutely everything.

I don't know about the beautitudes to Matt 10:36 question, I'd have to look into it.

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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KSMB

Hey KSMB,

That's interesting. America is generally a very religious place. At least in the 'bible belt' where I live it is. It's amazing that atheists are looked down on, when I think it is worse to be a hypocrite and say you believe in something and act utterly contrary.

Yes. "A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes."- James feibleman. It is a shock to many christians to believe that any part of the bible is merely metaphorical or poetic. Many believe that the bible is literally true, which is contradictory, because many parts of the bible in context don't make sense.

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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welcome

My husband's younger brother went to private school to finish high school.  There wasn't much choice at the time in that city, so he went to Gonzaga Prep in Spokane - where Bing Crosby went to school.  They have a statue and everything.  Anyway, I was told my brother-in-law had to declare a religion, they wouldn't let him put down atheist, agnostic or non-religious.  So he wrote in "druid".

This was long years before "Jedi knight". 

I'm a grandmother in Portland, OR, currently unemployed, and bored to death.  So I hang here when the job search is slow.  You're not alone, we're here for you.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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welcome

Edit: dp


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tj04011 wrote:Hey

tj04011 wrote:

Hey KSMB,

That's interesting. America is generally a very religious place. At least in the 'bible belt' where I live it is. It's amazing that atheists are looked down on, when I think it is worse to be a hypocrite and say you believe in something and act utterly contrary.

Yes. "A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes."- James feibleman. It is a shock to many christians to believe that any part of the bible is merely metaphorical or poetic. Many believe that the bible is literally true, which is contradictory, because many parts of the bible in context don't make sense.

 

I can't speak for everyone from up North... but I am from CT and my family, and town really, are religious to a fault.  Most people from college know that I am atheist... but my family has no idea.  I admire your courage.  Welcome!


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thanks cj

Hey Thanks CJ

It's interesting the stigmas that are placed on people who don't claim to belong to a denomination or a religion. It's a bit disturbing actually. Having been a Christian at a certain point in my life, I understand their thought processes, and looking back, it's amazing how close minded they are, and how they delude themselves into believing something. I used to think that way. It took many instances in my life to realize that the idea of god is ludicrous.

Thanks for the support.

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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hey rdklep8

Hey rdklep8,

Yes. I haven't broken the news to my parents yet. I think they knew I was struggling with the idea of god. I don't think they'll be completely furious. It's really scary coming out to your parents. I know mine would prefer me to believe in god, but I think they also know there is no way to push this kind of decision or belief on anyone. I'm glad that your friends at college are understanding. I can hang out with people at school, as long as we don't talk about religious beliefs. Smiling

Generally it doesn't go well. Thanks. You too! One of my brothers and my sister are atheists, so there is some support I have. It's hard to go to a predominantly christian school, living on campus, surrounded by people who use their religion as a reason to hate others.

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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 Hello TJ and

 Hello TJ and congratulations.  It is difficult for someone  to question their own beliefs.  I think it is great that you did.  Also, I don't envy your position.  An atheist in a bible college.  If I was going to a Bible college, I would probably end up telling everyone that I was an atheist also.  Welcome to the forum.

You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe. - Carl Sagan

Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion. - School Superintendent on "The Simpsons" episode #1


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faithnomore

Hi, thanks for the support. It is a difficult situation. It was definitely not an easy journey. It has taken 3 years for me to admit that my views in life had changed into something similar to atheism/agnosticism.

"Eli Eli Lema Sabachtani?" - Jesus

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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Wow that must be really

Wow that must be really terrible. Probably hillarious at times as well.


tj04011
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hey robj101

It can definitely be pretty funny. A lot of the male christians here sleep with other men, but say that they're not gay, because they're so afraid. People literally can't come out for fear of persecution. There is a clause in the original constitution of this university about homosexuals not being able to attend. It's amazing the willful ignorance that exists. It's amazing. They also kick out any female that becomes pregnant, but they don't do anything to the males. It's a hypocritical place, with many people who are very blind to understanding their own beliefs. There is also a high rate of making out with random people or trying anal sex, because they're so desperate to keep their virginity, and sex is such a taboo. Instead of having a healthy protected sexual relationship, they chose to put themselves at risk. It's so very sexually repressed, it's dangerous, these kids are graduating with no idea of how the world actually works.

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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You can start by not calling

You can start by not calling atheism a "belief system". It is merely the "off" position. It only says that you do not hold a belief in god or gods. The word istself does not address your reasons why you hold your position. And every atheist's reasons for rejecting god claims can be solid or weak and vary from atheist to atheist.

I hope your rejection of Christianity is not based on pure emotional reaction to the behavior of some Christians. Hypocrisy in behavior only addresses human actions.

You need to think of religion and god claims just like you would think of claims outside that issue and treat them the same. Is there evidence for ANY CLAIM, on any subject, beyond ones own personal bias or emotions.

"G/god[s]" by any name, past or present, are the claim that an invisible brain with no brain, no cerebellum, no neurons, with magical super powers meddles in the affairs of humans. It is just as absurd as if someone literally believed that Harry Potter can literally fly around on a broom.

I reject ALL naked assertions regardless if the claim is religious in nature or not. A claim that cannot be replicated and falsified and independently verified outside one's own bias is a red flag for any subject, not just god claims.

I reject the Christian god, Muslim god, Hindu gods, for the same reason you rightfully reject the claim that the sun was a thinking god that cared about the ancient Egyptians.

You really seem to be railing against Christianity, and it is understandable, and you are right to reject it. BUT do not base your rejection on others actions, or your emotional reaction to their behavior.

It takes TWO sets of DNA  to manifest into a zygote and then onto a baby, thus making the virgin birth story bogus. Human flesh cannot survive rigor mortis, thus making the "rising from the dead" zombiegod Jesus claim bogus. THOSE are the real evidences of science that debunk the magical poof claims of the bible beyond personal emotions and bias.

If I may suggest, if you haven't already some things to look up, and or read. Some are terms, others are books.

Fallacy of Pascal's Wager

Bentrand Russel's "teapot"

Infinite regress(why it makes god an absurd concept)

Law of probibility

Occham's Razor(sp)

 

BOOKS TO READ

"Climbing Mt Improbable" Richard Dawkins

"The God Delusion" Richard Dawkins

"The Greatest Show on Earth" Richard Dawkins

"Letter to a Christian Nation" Sam Harris

"God The Failed Hypothesis" Victor J Stenger

"Infidel" Ayaan Hirsi Ali

"God Is Not Great" Christopher Hitchens

"2,000 Years of Disbelief" James A Haught

For starters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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wow you pretty much

wow you pretty much described my university there. it sucks to have those subjects. feels like decreasing your mental juices than increasing it. welcome to the forums!

Not only can water float a boat, It can sink it also.


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tj04011 wrote:It can

tj04011 wrote:

It can definitely be pretty funny. A lot of the male christians here sleep with other men, but say that they're not gay, because they're so afraid. People literally can't come out for fear of persecution. There is a clause in the original constitution of this university about homosexuals not being able to attend. It's amazing the willful ignorance that exists. It's amazing. They also kick out any female that becomes pregnant, but they don't do anything to the males. It's a hypocritical place, with many people who are very blind to understanding their own beliefs. There is also a high rate of making out with random people or trying anal sex, because they're so desperate to keep their virginity, and sex is such a taboo. Instead of having a healthy protected sexual relationship, they chose to put themselves at risk. It's so very sexually repressed, it's dangerous, these kids are graduating with no idea of how the world actually works.

 

My sister is a Jehovah's Witness.  Nuttier than a fruitcake.  But she once told me there were never any unmarried mothers in their church.  I asked for further details.  What they do is harass the unmarried pregnant woman until she marries someone or leaves the church. 

I think the hypocrisy is why there are more divorces and teen pregnancies in the more religious areas.  Much more healthy to acknowledge people will be people instead of going for some impossible sexually repressed standard of living.  And acknowledging it leads to less bad behavior, not more.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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Welcome TJ! Are you pretty

Welcome TJ!

 

Are you pretty open about your atheism on campus?

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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Welcome to the forum.Oh,

Welcome to the forum.

Oh, that's a lot of Bible courses.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Brian37

Hi.

Thank you for your input into what it means to be an atheist.

Personally, you're mincing words a little bit by rejecting the term 'belief system.' Everyone has a story, and believes in something.  Part of my belief system now is not believing in god. maybe I don't have a religious belief system, but I do believe in my ability to helps others, and that our lives are made up of interactions with others, and outside of being compassionate, my life have little to no purpose, besides knowledge and understanding.  Maybe if you're going to nit pick, it'd be a disbelief system. and that's fine. I don't know, I just think we all have paradigms with multiple facets of understanding. atheism is now creating a part of my out look, believing in god or not.
 

Again, attending a biblical college, means I am extremely familiar with the bible, the bible itself is a main point of contention on why I don't believe. for example, Jesus is supposed to be a picture perfect flawless example of humanity, yet he burns a fig tree enraged by it not producing any fruit, pointing out that he was a major jerk, or people went over board with a righteous anger metaphor. Either way, it's opposite of what jesus was supposed to represent.

I hadn't really intended my reasons for not believing in god, but since you bring it up, it's definitely not based on purely emotional reasons.
First of all, I'm losing my eyesight. I received a nomination to West Point , but was medically disqualified for my eyesight, later, I had to have 2 surgeries to save my left eye. There is no reason for this, natural or moral evil, categorically, it makes no difference. This random occurrence opened my eyes, no pun intended, and forced me to realize that god cannot exist if so many random events can occur, it/he obviously either has no power, or does not care.

I was also raped my freshman year of college, when I was a Christian, and realizing that god's supposed promise of retributive justice, is obviously false. Bad things happen to good people and wonderful things happen to bad people. It's disgusting the fallacy that lays in the idea that god 'defends' his own. The idea of retributive justice being presented in the bible multiple times. Job, Isaiah, Psalms, proverbs.

Why should a middle aged house wife 'pray' to god, and have a stain removed from her shirt, while he ignores the 12,000 children dying of starvation a minute? If god exists and this is how he functions, then he is a cruel, trivial, uncaring god, and compared to the bible, his existence makes absolutely no logical sense

Thanks for trying to strengthen my understanding of atheism. I have gotten useful information from godisimaginary.com  Thank you for your suggestions and I'll certainly have to look into the reading material.

 

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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mellestad

Hey,

I definitely will tell people if they ask, that I'm an theist and not a christian. I prefer to keep under the radar because they will profile you. I've had friends who admit they're atheists, have their rooms checked randomly, and suffer with their grades. The sad thing about it, is in the constitution that was written at the univeristy's founding in 1891, there are clauses in it that forbid homosexuals or non believers attending, so they could kick you out by all rights when you decide to attend the university. Again, three years ago when I started here I was a christian, so I wasn't aware of the issues that exist. Luckily I'm out in 2 semesters.

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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Hey CJ

The last I've heard on the statistics, is that the divorce rate for secular and non secular marriages are the same. But I've heard that the STD rates and pregnancy for religious people is higher. I agree that repressing the knowledge only creates ignorant adults who don't know how to handle life. It's kind of like the difference in alcohol drinking ages in europe and the U.S. In parts of europe you can drink beer at 14 and liquor at 16, and their alcohol related death rates are much much lower. Young people are exposed to it, so it's not such a taboo. They don't go crazy when they get older, because they are aware of it's existence and are allowed to experiment, and learn their limitations. It's good to meet someone who's older is an atheist, as all people I know who are older then me persist in the idea of religion, I think because they're 'old school', and they feel responsible to believe to be a good example to younger generations.

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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Hey CJ

The last I've heard on the statistics, is that the divorce rate for secular and non secular marriages are the same. But I've heard that the STD rates and pregnancy for religious people is higher. I agree that repressing the knowledge only creates ignorant adults who don't know how to handle life. It's kind of like the difference in alcohol drinking ages in europe and the U.S. In parts of europe you can drink beer at 14 and liquor at 16, and their alcohol related death rates are much much lower. Young people are exposed to it, so it's not such a taboo. They don't go crazy when they get older, because they are aware of it's existence and are allowed to experiment, and learn their limitations. It's good to meet someone who's older is an atheist, as all people I know who are older then me persist in the idea of religion, I think because they're 'old school', and they feel responsible to believe to be a good example to younger generations.

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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tj04011 wrote: The last I've

tj04011 wrote:

The last I've heard on the statistics, is that the divorce rate for secular and non secular marriages are the same. But I've heard that the STD rates and pregnancy for religious people is higher. I agree that repressing the knowledge only creates ignorant adults who don't know how to handle life. It's kind of like the difference in alcohol drinking ages in europe and the U.S. In parts of europe you can drink beer at 14 and liquor at 16, and their alcohol related death rates are much much lower. Young people are exposed to it, so it's not such a taboo. They don't go crazy when they get older, because they are aware of it's existence and are allowed to experiment, and learn their limitations. It's good to meet someone who's older is an atheist, as all people I know who are older then me persist in the idea of religion, I think because they're 'old school', and they feel responsible to believe to be a good example to younger generations.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

Religion                         % who have been divorced

Jews                             30%

Born-again Christians     27%

Other Christians             24%

Atheists, Agnostics          21%

 

Of course, there is a lot of protests from the born-agains.  I think it all has to do with "putting your troubles in the lap of Jesus".  With the result nothing gets resolved.  Additionally, I think the church does very little to support marriages.  Most pastors are not trained to do marriage counseling and they frankly suck at it.  (personal experience) 

My sister (the JW) had been married for 29 years when she found out her husband was cheating with another church "sister".  She divorced him.  He had to repent, and ask forgiveness from the other elders.  They let him back in as an elder.  And then the church people wondered why she didn't want to attend the same meetings that the ex did.  Jesus forgave him, why couldn't she?  And she still goes to the dippy church.

We secular types rely on ourselves to fix our relationship problems.  And so we get busy and take steps.

I think a lot of people my age remember their checkered past all too well.  And some of them are trying to forgive themselves still.  I had friends who all of a sudden got real respectable when the kids came along.  I did religion for a little while when the boys were young, but I soon dropped it.  And none of the boys got into it.  I always thought you did your children a disservice by not owning up to your own personal experience no matter how antisocial and wild it was.  Hiding behind religion does not make your past disappear.  Surely the old ones that protest the most were some of the wildest in their youth.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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hey cj

Those are really interesting numbers. I totally agree. A friend of mines mom was recently told by her husband that he was cheating on her and he wanted a divorce, but in the past, she told him that she wanted to sleep with their dogs in the bed, so he was going to have to sleep in a different bedroom. I'm sorry, but that's asking a relationship to fail. It's not right that he cheated on her at all, but the fact that she just decided that the relationship would be magically fixed by god, she's super religious, is just ridiculous. I agree that christianity is an excuse to be complacent with they way things are. It's easy to think that it doesn't matter about life on earth, because everything will be fixed when the world ends. It makes them ignore issues of social justice.

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


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tj04011 wrote:I hadn't

tj04011 wrote:

I hadn't really intended my reasons for not believing in god, but since you bring it up, it's definitely not based on purely emotional reasons.
First of all, I'm losing my eyesight. I received a nomination to West Point , but was medically disqualified for my eyesight, later, I had to have 2 surgeries to save my left eye. There is no reason for this, natural or moral evil, categorically, it makes no difference. This random occurrence opened my eyes, no pun intended, and forced me to realize that god cannot exist if so many random events can occur, it/he obviously either has no power, or does not care.

 

Why should a middle aged house wife 'pray' to god, and have a stain removed from her shirt, while he ignores the 12,000 children dying of starvation a minute? If god exists and this is how he functions, then he is a cruel, trivial, uncaring god, and compared to the bible, his existence makes absolutely no logical sense

And when atheists bring up the non-magical randomness of life, such as in your case, and that good things happen to bad people and vice versa , they falsely accuse us of being angry at their god. No, what we are angry at is the absurdity of such a suggestion. That we are here for the entertainment for a god who doesn't have to allow us to suffer, but does solely for the goal for his self interest of gaining club members to kiss is ass.

The REAL evidence of reality is all around us. The fact that cockroaches have been around longer and out number humans. Bacteria outnumbers humans. Eagles have better eyesight than humans. The fact that you are going blind. The fact that children all over the world die of starvation every day. The fact that a meteor could wipe out our species at any minute. The fact that the sun will eventually expand and fry the planet to a cinder.

There is no purpose to life. But when you say that to a believer they call us pessimistic and fatalistic, but the reality is that it is they, not the atheist, who are such. You don't make up some fictional "test' or "punishment" doled out to you by a fictional fight between god and Satan. You accept the reality without assigning magic to it.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Welcome, tj04011!  Hope you

Welcome, tj04011!  Hope you find a place of sanity here at RRS!


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Pleased to meetr you tj

 

I had a fundy upbringing and there are a few words you used in your earlier post that really spoke to me - perhaps the strongest bell ringer was the word 'conform'.

Born again gospel christians are minted out of the same ideological mold in such a way as to be virtually identical. They are prostrate with conformity and as you point out a number of times, are seemingly unable to think of out-of-bible possibilities. I tend to think there's some sort of brain issue happening with them. Eternal life being so important, they will actively refuse to think in a way that threatens their comfort zone.

I didn't realise it when I was making the transition to disbelief as I was awash with guilt but I think you do understand that non belief is where real honesty lies.

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Brian37

yes, it is definitely the absurdity of someone trying to tell me "God is good" when the world is in such a shit storm. There are constant on going wars in Africa, and the Middle east. N. Korea is building nuclear weapons, drug cartels and sex trafficking abound, cancer, starvation and diseases are  rampant, and you have the audacity to tell me there is some loving magical being that will take away our pain and suffering, while ignoring what is going on right now?? That makes perfect sense.

Yes, the believer calls us 'depressing' as opposed to realistic. The purpose in life should be whatever meaning we chose to assign to it, and what we find out while living. The believer, I agree, cannot look beyond their presuppositions. I think it has to do with a deep seated ingrained fear of death, and hell.

Being a good person, shouldn't be based on fear of punishment.

I enjoy listening to your opinions, you're extremely logical.

 

 

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


tj04011
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hey atheist extremist,

Nice to meet you toSmiling

It's amazing the response and people I'm meeting here! It was a good idea to get support with this recent decision to not believe.

Conformity is a kind of safety. If you accept what the majority says, you don't have to fight for an identity. I completely agree. I think they're so scared and terrified of death and hell, they willingly ignore any possibility the god doesn't exist.

It was scary at first, realizing that I was slowly undermining all my old beliefs in god, what was even scarier was that I had believed that way for so, even though all events in my life were pointing me to understand that there is no god. I was believing in something because it was 'comfortable.' because others reinforced the empty ideals as true.

Fighting for myself and my personality now, is a fight against persecution by the christians here, though not all of them are entirely of the  'burn the sinners' mind set. I'm glad that you were able to maintain and find your own personal freedom too.

I can only hope we're able to help each other grow and expand intellectually.

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


tj04011
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hey natural

Thanks, it's helping me already. I'm starting to think I'm not so alone, or abnormal Smiling


tj04011
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hey natural

Thanks, it's helping me already. I'm starting to think I'm not so alone, or abnormal Smiling


tj04011
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hey natural

Thanks, it's helping me already. I'm starting to think I'm not so alone, or abnormal Smiling


Brian37
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tj04011 wrote:yes, it is

tj04011 wrote:

yes, it is definitely the absurdity of someone trying to tell me "God is good" when the world is in such a shit storm. There are constant on going wars in Africa, and the Middle east. N. Korea is building nuclear weapons, drug cartels and sex trafficking abound, cancer, starvation and diseases are  rampant, and you have the audacity to tell me there is some loving magical being that will take away our pain and suffering, while ignoring what is going on right now?? That makes perfect sense.

Yes, the believer calls us 'depressing' as opposed to realistic. The purpose in life should be whatever meaning we chose to assign to it, and what we find out while living. The believer, I agree, cannot look beyond their presuppositions. I think it has to do with a deep seated ingrained fear of death, and hell.

Being a good person, shouldn't be based on fear of punishment.

I enjoy listening to your opinions, you're extremely logical.

 

 

Don't say that to my co-workers, especially during inspection period.

And I hope you are not listening to my opinions. How did you get the bugs in my trailer?

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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tj04011 wrote:Nice to meet

tj04011 wrote:

Nice to meet you toSmiling

It's amazing the response and people I'm meeting here! It was a good idea to get support with this recent decision to not believe.

Conformity is a kind of safety. If you accept what the majority says, you don't have to fight for an identity. I completely agree. I think they're so scared and terrified of death and hell, they willingly ignore any possibility the god doesn't exist.

It was scary at first, realizing that I was slowly undermining all my old beliefs in god, what was even scarier was that I had believed that way for so, even though all events in my life were pointing me to understand that there is no god. I was believing in something because it was 'comfortable.' because others reinforced the empty ideals as true.

Fighting for myself and my personality now, is a fight against persecution by the christians here, though not all of them are entirely of the  'burn the sinners' mind set. I'm glad that you were able to maintain and find your own personal freedom too.

I can only hope we're able to help each other grow and expand intellectually.

 

Man, flashbacks.  When I was beginning my de-conversion I was terrified.  Mostly of divine retribution (for daring to question God) but also worried about my peer group.

I doubt I will ever undo all the conditioning that came from my upbringing as a fundamentalist Christian, but rationality is a tool that often helps me cut through the cobwebs.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


Rich Woods
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My unsolicited advice... as

My unsolicited advice... as someone who is not just "out" about his atheism, but that my wife and I negotiate non monogamy....and who doesn't give a remote shit what other people think because I know more ways to tell them to go fuck themselves than they have trite cliche's to dispense about morality...

Remain silent... Tell NO ONE....but keep a journal... in 4 years turn it into a book.... everyone on this site (and a lot of others) will buy it.... Get an Agent, and hit the talk circuit...hire an intern to answer your Fan/Hate Mail...

You have a potentially lucerative career here, if you desire it...

Either way... best of luck kiddo... Hope only good things happen to you...


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 Im glad the most i have to

 

Im glad the most i have to deal with is some people asking me questions like who created "man" and tell me to write the answer on a black board while they get a crowd to watch. (they hang out out side one of my lectures, they cannot be avoided).  Personally I just write a bowl of fruit and other things that make no sense.

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


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Are you a teacher Tapey?

Are you a teacher Tapey?

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:Are you a

mellestad wrote:

Are you a teacher Tapey?

Nope. university student. the christian brigade ambush us students in the corriders and use large groups to pressure you into talking to them. So i have fun with them.

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


tj04011
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Tapey

It's really hard to be ambushed by Christians sometimes.

some of them get so incredibly angry and defensive, like they can't believe that you think any differently than they do.

they want to know if you don't have a religion then how do you know what good and evil are, where do you get moral ideals, how the world was created, why we exist if there is no god, what happens to you when you die, but whenever you try to answer those questions, they ignore your answers, argue with you, and spout out a regurgitated copy and paste answer. I don't know why they bother asking if they're not really interested in hearing what you think.

I think it's great the you have a sense of humor about it. Smiling

 

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


tj04011
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mellestad

yes. It was scary for me too. I kind of half expected lightening to hit me or something like that. The conditioning does run deep. It's starting over completely. Deciding what good and evil are, who determines either of them, what if any punishments should exist for evil, what is the point in living, what happens when you die, they're all questions you have to figure out answers to. Everything you've learned you decide is false, so it's starting all over again.

"I have no special talents or abilities, I am merely passionately curious." - Albert Einstein


iwbiek
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tj04011 wrote:It's really

tj04011 wrote:

It's really hard to be ambushed by Christians sometimes.

some of them get so incredibly angry and defensive, like they can't believe that you think any differently than they do.

they want to know if you don't have a religion then how do you know what good and evil are, where do you get moral ideals, how the world was created, why we exist if there is no god, what happens to you when you die, but whenever you try to answer those questions, they ignore your answers, argue with you, and spout out a regurgitated copy and paste answer. I don't know why they bother asking if they're not really interested in hearing what you think.

I think it's great the you have a sense of humor about it. Smiling

 

what always amuses me about such christians is they're all convinced of their own brilliance and seem genuinely oblivious to the fact that they're spouting bullshit that's been spouted a million times before.  sometimes i like to fluster them by finishing their arguments for them.

i also always love tearing down their personal heroes, which are often c.s. lewis and/or some apologist like josh mcdowell or lee strobel.  they obviously think these men are so brilliant and they sometimes get a bit crestfallen when i point out how c.s. lewis is regurgitating shit that church fathers said 1500 years ago, perhaps unwittingly at times.  for example, the conception of the trinity he offers in mere christianity, which he seems at least to think is somewhat novel, is nothing more than a sloppy rehash of the augustinian conception.  of course, this tactic doesn't really serve as a valid argument against their points, but it does demonstrate the intellectual limits of their religion and the fact that, once their stock arguments are debunked, they have nothing else, nor even the possibility of anything else, to fall back on.  it's a closed, dead system of thought.

welcome, btw, and you have my sympathies.  i was pretty fundy when i started college, and even considered going to "bible college" (shudder...when i think of the bullet i dodged there it's like a cat walking over my grave).  i think what saved me was the fact that i was always independent-minded, so i didn't make the mistake of consulting my pastor or something like that before choosing my school.  instead, i chose a wonderful school with a very liberal religion program that challenged my faith at every turn.  still, i can relate to you a bit because i was in the campus crusade for christ world for a couple years after i graduated and i began my deconversion (though i didn't recognize it as such at the time) while still on staff with them.  i got "talked to" so many times, and even used to have random older staff members come up to me at conferences, uninvited, and ask what i was reading.  they got nervous when they saw names like martin buber or rosa luxemburg or nietzsche on the cover.  i don't think they even knew who half the authors were, but it was enough that it wasn't john piper or bill bright or some fuckin' left behind book to make them nervous.  i even got asked once why i was using an oxford study bible that included the apocrypha.  

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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N/A

          Well thats wierd according to what you said those people must be misguided since they use peer pressure

(can be like bullying) and hate you.

In the old testament (95% of the new testament is based off the old) it was (is) highly against gays and altering natural

things (hybrids such as a mule)

I'm suprised that aethiests even go to CHRISTIAN universities or community colledges due to the fact that

they believe in a god and of coarse talk about the bible but I'm still shoked that they hate you for being you

(you are a very brave young woman)

 

                                                       -the Bible is against ignorance but with faith interpret this however you want.

 

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