Yet Another "Priest to Touch"

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Yet Another "Priest to Touch"

I know this is a very old meme, but in Germany, yet another child molester given free and easy access to fresh boy parts by the Catholic Church, perhaps even the Pope, himself: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/16/world/europe/16church.html?th&emc=th

Seriously? The Catholic Church needs to be stopped. I'm beginning to think of it as little more than one big, well-organized Child Abuser Factory. I know I'm preaching to the choir here (pun intended), and all abuse is despicable, but abuse by a religious authority figure goes so much deeper as a betrayal of trust, imo, down to one's very soul. Gun to my head to find a silver lining, I suppose abuse victims are more likely to grow up and reject religion outright.

I love the closing remark: "...we may as well just close the whole shop." Mmhmm. Now you're talking.


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 "Father Frania added that

 

"Father Frania added that he had heard no accusations against Father Hullermann during his time in the parish and said that people should practice forgiveness toward him."

 

In other words : "Please don't sue us. That would be unchristian."


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Smarty, I don't think it is

Smarty, I don't think it is as much a racket and a conspiracy as it is a climate. Child abuse goes on all over the world and in every country in every religion in every country. Hierarchy is to do what most on top do, confuse power with morality and assume that a label means they aren't capable of such actions.

I have seen this "blind protectionist attitude" on a simple family scale. I have had in the past, classmates in school, or kids in my neighborhood growing up, do something wrong, and then when the parents are approached they blindly defend the kid because their "name" or the intent of the way they raise their kids is confused with the reality that things in reality can and do go wrong.

There are far more kids in Bangkok exploited by non Catholics for sex and done in a more shameless open market.

The issue should not be Catholics. The issue should be not allowing ANY POWER a taboo to the point where questioning is impossible.

Catholics, just like communists just like Muslims, get away with abuse because once on top, their attitude is " I don't have to answer to you" and will protect their own because that insures the survival of their meme.

What allows any abuse, regardless of label, is the attitude that one's shit doesn't stink and by proxy of label one can do no wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:Smarty, I

Brian37 wrote:

Smarty, I don't think it is as much a racket and a conspiracy as it is a climate. Child abuse goes on all over the world and in every country in every religion in every country. Hierarchy is to do what most on top do, confuse power with morality and assume that a label means they aren't capable of such actions.

I have seen this "blind protectionist attitude" on a simple family scale. I have had in the past, classmates in school, or kids in my neighborhood growing up, do something wrong, and then when the parents are approached they blindly defend the kid because their "name" or the intent of the way they raise their kids is confused with the reality that things in reality can and do go wrong.

There are far more kids in Bangkok exploited by non Catholics for sex and done in a more shameless open market.

The issue should not be Catholics. The issue should be not allowing ANY POWER a taboo to the point where questioning is impossible.

Catholics, just like communists just like Muslims, get away with abuse because once on top, their attitude is " I don't have to answer to you" and will protect their own because that insures the survival of their meme.

What allows any abuse, regardless of label, is the attitude that one's shit doesn't stink and by proxy of label one can do no wrong.

I know whenever I say something, you feel the need to come in showing everyone how GIANT your little peepee is by "correcting me." And while I do agree with many of the things you said, you're missing so many fundamentally important aspects of this problem. Namely, the requirement for priests to be celibate is both a cause and a result in the equation, forming a dangerous feedback loop. Second is the psychology of child abuse victims who who feel intense shame and guilt over what someone else has done (secretly) to them far more acutely than adult victims. And then there's, as I already stated, the spiritual transgression added to the ordinary abuse of power and betrayal of trust. Bangkok most certainly has its problems by our standards, but they stem from entirely different social and economic issues, and it's not even close to being analogous.


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Vatican in trouble with the UN

Vatican Condemned at UN for Child Abuse

http://www.iheu.org/vatican-condemned-un-child-abuse

Geneva, March 16, 2010 -- The Vatican’s record on child abuse was criticized today at the United Nations Human Rights Council. Highlighting the Vatican’s repeated and ongoing efforts to cover up evidence of child abuse by priests, the International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU) accused the Vatican of violating its obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC).

And it is the humanists that are lobbying for accountability for the Vatican for their sex crime cover-ups. 

 

"There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must do it because Conscience tells him it is right." Martin Luther King


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Yea...honestly, I don't

Yea...honestly, I don't think it is damning that priests have been pedophiles.  Statistically, it is inevitable.  What is damning is the fact that they try to hide it and let the priests skate entirely and even continue to work with children.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad

mellestad wrote:

Yea...honestly, I don't think it is damning that priests have been pedophiles.  Statistically, it is inevitable.  What is damning is the fact that they try to hide it and let the priests skate entirely and even continue to work with children.

Child abuse in this country was widely ignored up until the 60s and 70s. Child abuse is not an invention of Catholics or any label for that matter. It is a statistical occurrence in every society, just like cancer. The covering up part is merely on the part of the alpha male(not one person, but the majority in a particular society) confusing their label as being moral, so that society will default to their own being moral rather than question those within their ranks.

Catholics don't don't own the rights to covering up child abuse, they are merely the most popularly reported in the west.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:mellestad

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Yea...honestly, I don't think it is damning that priests have been pedophiles.  Statistically, it is inevitable.  What is damning is the fact that they try to hide it and let the priests skate entirely and even continue to work with children.

Child abuse in this country was widely ignored up until the 60s and 70s. Child abuse is not an invention of Catholics or any label for that matter. It is a statistical occurrence in every society, just like cancer. The covering up part is merely on the part of the alpha male(not one person, but the majority in a particular society) confusing their label as being moral, so that society will default to their own being moral rather than question those within their ranks.

Catholics don't don't own the rights to covering up child abuse, they are merely the most popularly reported in the west.

I agree, but most organizations don't claim divine will.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:Brian37

mellestad wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Yea...honestly, I don't think it is damning that priests have been pedophiles.  Statistically, it is inevitable.  What is damning is the fact that they try to hide it and let the priests skate entirely and even continue to work with children.

Child abuse in this country was widely ignored up until the 60s and 70s. Child abuse is not an invention of Catholics or any label for that matter. It is a statistical occurrence in every society, just like cancer. The covering up part is merely on the part of the alpha male(not one person, but the majority in a particular society) confusing their label as being moral, so that society will default to their own being moral rather than question those within their ranks.

Catholics don't don't own the rights to covering up child abuse, they are merely the most popularly reported in the west.

I agree, but most organizations don't claim divine will.

Dogma, be it a claim of the divine or political confuses the REAL observations that are made in human behavior. I am quite sure that there are ratios, to varying degrees, of child abuse in every culture in every country. Don't place labels as being important, that is what they do. What is important is to get beyond labels and understand that WE as a species value the protection of our young. Our species wouldn't continue if we didn't care about our young. But also as natural is the the abuse of our young our species seeks to avoid. Good and bad HAPPEN and are not label based, but statistic based and psychology based.

Understanding the statistics and psychology is the key, not the label. That is what will maximize the good and minimize the harm.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:mellestad

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Yea...honestly, I don't think it is damning that priests have been pedophiles.  Statistically, it is inevitable.  What is damning is the fact that they try to hide it and let the priests skate entirely and even continue to work with children.

Child abuse in this country was widely ignored up until the 60s and 70s. Child abuse is not an invention of Catholics or any label for that matter. It is a statistical occurrence in every society, just like cancer. The covering up part is merely on the part of the alpha male(not one person, but the majority in a particular society) confusing their label as being moral, so that society will default to their own being moral rather than question those within their ranks.

Catholics don't don't own the rights to covering up child abuse, they are merely the most popularly reported in the west.

I agree, but most organizations don't claim divine will.

Dogma, be it a claim of the divine or political confuses the REAL observations that are made in human behavior. I am quite sure that there are ratios, to varying degrees, of child abuse in every culture in every country. Don't place labels as being important, that is what they do. What is important is to get beyond labels and understand that WE as a species value the protection of our young. Our species wouldn't continue if we didn't care about our young. But also as natural is the the abuse of our young our species seeks to avoid. Good and bad HAPPEN and are not label based, but statistic based and psychology based.

Understanding the statistics and psychology is the key, not the label. That is what will maximize the good and minimize the harm.

Umm...ok.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:Brian37

mellestad wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Yea...honestly, I don't think it is damning that priests have been pedophiles.  Statistically, it is inevitable.  What is damning is the fact that they try to hide it and let the priests skate entirely and even continue to work with children.

Child abuse in this country was widely ignored up until the 60s and 70s. Child abuse is not an invention of Catholics or any label for that matter. It is a statistical occurrence in every society, just like cancer. The covering up part is merely on the part of the alpha male(not one person, but the majority in a particular society) confusing their label as being moral, so that society will default to their own being moral rather than question those within their ranks.

Catholics don't don't own the rights to covering up child abuse, they are merely the most popularly reported in the west.

I agree, but most organizations don't claim divine will.

Dogma, be it a claim of the divine or political confuses the REAL observations that are made in human behavior. I am quite sure that there are ratios, to varying degrees, of child abuse in every culture in every country. Don't place labels as being important, that is what they do. What is important is to get beyond labels and understand that WE as a species value the protection of our young. Our species wouldn't continue if we didn't care about our young. But also as natural is the the abuse of our young our species seeks to avoid. Good and bad HAPPEN and are not label based, but statistic based and psychology based.

Understanding the statistics and psychology is the key, not the label. That is what will maximize the good and minimize the harm.

Umm...ok.

Labels of any sort are a red haring. Good and bad happen, and have happened, and will will always happen. Observation and study trumps labels and gets to the core of COMMON human behavior and psychology.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:mellestad

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Yea...honestly, I don't think it is damning that priests have been pedophiles.  Statistically, it is inevitable.  What is damning is the fact that they try to hide it and let the priests skate entirely and even continue to work with children.

Child abuse in this country was widely ignored up until the 60s and 70s. Child abuse is not an invention of Catholics or any label for that matter. It is a statistical occurrence in every society, just like cancer. The covering up part is merely on the part of the alpha male(not one person, but the majority in a particular society) confusing their label as being moral, so that society will default to their own being moral rather than question those within their ranks.

Catholics don't don't own the rights to covering up child abuse, they are merely the most popularly reported in the west.

I agree, but most organizations don't claim divine will.

Dogma, be it a claim of the divine or political confuses the REAL observations that are made in human behavior. I am quite sure that there are ratios, to varying degrees, of child abuse in every culture in every country. Don't place labels as being important, that is what they do. What is important is to get beyond labels and understand that WE as a species value the protection of our young. Our species wouldn't continue if we didn't care about our young. But also as natural is the the abuse of our young our species seeks to avoid. Good and bad HAPPEN and are not label based, but statistic based and psychology based.

Understanding the statistics and psychology is the key, not the label. That is what will maximize the good and minimize the harm.

Umm...ok.

Labels of any sort are a red haring. Good and bad happen, and have happened, and will will always happen. Observation and study trumps labels and gets to the core of COMMON human behavior and psychology.

 

I just don't know why you felt the need to interject, nor am I really sure what your posts had to do with what I originally wrote.  But that's cool, I don't know lots of things!

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:Brian37

mellestad wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Yea...honestly, I don't think it is damning that priests have been pedophiles.  Statistically, it is inevitable.  What is damning is the fact that they try to hide it and let the priests skate entirely and even continue to work with children.

Child abuse in this country was widely ignored up until the 60s and 70s. Child abuse is not an invention of Catholics or any label for that matter. It is a statistical occurrence in every society, just like cancer. The covering up part is merely on the part of the alpha male(not one person, but the majority in a particular society) confusing their label as being moral, so that society will default to their own being moral rather than question those within their ranks.

Catholics don't don't own the rights to covering up child abuse, they are merely the most popularly reported in the west.

I agree, but most organizations don't claim divine will.

Dogma, be it a claim of the divine or political confuses the REAL observations that are made in human behavior. I am quite sure that there are ratios, to varying degrees, of child abuse in every culture in every country. Don't place labels as being important, that is what they do. What is important is to get beyond labels and understand that WE as a species value the protection of our young. Our species wouldn't continue if we didn't care about our young. But also as natural is the the abuse of our young our species seeks to avoid. Good and bad HAPPEN and are not label based, but statistic based and psychology based.

Understanding the statistics and psychology is the key, not the label. That is what will maximize the good and minimize the harm.

Umm...ok.

Labels of any sort are a red haring. Good and bad happen, and have happened, and will will always happen. Observation and study trumps labels and gets to the core of COMMON human behavior and psychology.

 

I just don't know why you felt the need to interject, nor am I really sure what your posts had to do with what I originally wrote.  But that's cool, I don't know lots of things!

I hope you know you are human. Your label doesn't preclude you from mistakes, and to assume a label is automatically right. Catholics are wrong, just as Hindus are wrong, just as if I claimed I could fart  a Lamborghini out of my ass.

I felt the need to interject, not because Catholic are right. I felt the need to interject because people on all sides of every label miss the point that human behavior is not magical or good or bad based on the person making the claim.

Humans will flock to what they are familiar with and defend it even when false because they think it works. What breaks this flaw in our evolution is the ability to take a step back and test their observations and have those outside the claim they make kick the tires as well.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:mellestad

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Yea...honestly, I don't think it is damning that priests have been pedophiles.  Statistically, it is inevitable.  What is damning is the fact that they try to hide it and let the priests skate entirely and even continue to work with children.

Child abuse in this country was widely ignored up until the 60s and 70s. Child abuse is not an invention of Catholics or any label for that matter. It is a statistical occurrence in every society, just like cancer. The covering up part is merely on the part of the alpha male(not one person, but the majority in a particular society) confusing their label as being moral, so that society will default to their own being moral rather than question those within their ranks.

Catholics don't don't own the rights to covering up child abuse, they are merely the most popularly reported in the west.

I agree, but most organizations don't claim divine will.

Dogma, be it a claim of the divine or political confuses the REAL observations that are made in human behavior. I am quite sure that there are ratios, to varying degrees, of child abuse in every culture in every country. Don't place labels as being important, that is what they do. What is important is to get beyond labels and understand that WE as a species value the protection of our young. Our species wouldn't continue if we didn't care about our young. But also as natural is the the abuse of our young our species seeks to avoid. Good and bad HAPPEN and are not label based, but statistic based and psychology based.

Understanding the statistics and psychology is the key, not the label. That is what will maximize the good and minimize the harm.

Umm...ok.

Labels of any sort are a red haring. Good and bad happen, and have happened, and will will always happen. Observation and study trumps labels and gets to the core of COMMON human behavior and psychology.

 

I just don't know why you felt the need to interject, nor am I really sure what your posts had to do with what I originally wrote.  But that's cool, I don't know lots of things!

I hope you know you are human. Your label doesn't preclude you from mistakes, and to assume a label is automatically right. Catholics are wrong, just as Hindus are wrong, just as if I claimed I could fart  a Lamborghini out of my ass.

I felt the need to interject, not because Catholic are right. I felt the need to interject because people on all sides of every label miss the point that human behavior is not magical or good or bad based on the person making the claim.

Humans will flock to what they are familiar with and defend it even when false because they think it works. What breaks this flaw in our evolution is the ability to take a step back and test their observations and have those outside the claim they make kick the tires as well.

Ok.  I guess I assumed that since you quoted me you had some sort of related comment.  *shrug* Carry on!

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:I just don't

mellestad wrote:

I just don't know why you felt the need to interject, nor am I really sure what your posts had to do with what I originally wrote.  But that's cool, I don't know lots of things!

LOL So glad I'm not the only one who notices this mildly irritating love he seems to have for the sound of his own voice.


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fortitude wrote:Vatican

fortitude wrote:

Vatican Condemned at UN for Child Abuse

http://www.iheu.org/vatican-condemned-un-child-abuse

Geneva, March 16, 2010 -- The Vatican’s record on child abuse was criticized today at the United Nations Human Rights Council. Highlighting the Vatican’s repeated and ongoing efforts to cover up evidence of child abuse by priests, the International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU) accused the Vatican of violating its obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC).

And it is the humanists that are lobbying for accountability for the Vatican for their sex crime cover-ups. 

Seriously, it's about time somebody stood up and called them out on what they do.


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mellestad wrote:I agree, but

mellestad wrote:

I agree, but most organizations don't claim divine will.

EXACTLY.


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What really pisses me off

What really pisses me off about the whole thing is that the church tries to cover it up, then when unsuccessful, they simply "reassign" the priest somewhere else.  My question to catholics is this: how can you possibly condone such behavior with your dollars? 

Ok, I get that this isn't something that is only happening in the catholic church, but to essentially condone the behavior by not firing the person involved and then having them put in jail is beyond comprehension.  Pedophelia shouldn't be tolerated at any level, yet the catholic church, an organization that preaches self-righteous sexual oppression, has the balls to "ask for forgiveness". It just makes me want to vomit.  And yet when catholics are faced with the idea that they monetarily support such behavior and actions, they still think the catholic church is a "good thing."  Amazing!  If I was getting triple the interest rate at Freds Bank-o-Rama than with any other bank, then I found out that a number of employees were pedophiles, then I found out that they simply moved the employees to another branch, my money would NOT be at that bank.  Yet this is EXACTLY what the church did, and somehow the sheeple think it's OK to stay with the organization.  Puh-LEESE!

 

 

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“I find that deceitful

“I find that deceitful because we know that this is a global and systemic problem in the global church,” said Colm O’Gorman, the co-founder of a victims’ group who said he was sexually abused by a priest as a teenager in Ireland in the early ’80s. “It’s all about protecting the institution and, above all, its wealth.”

 

Heh, nice response. When he says wealth, I'm sure he means wealth of knowledge right. Because religion has nothing to do with money.

/sarcasm off

 

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