Why do people who believe...

digitalbeachbum
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Why do people who believe...

Why do people who believe in "god", life after-death, or "heaven" suffer when a loved one has died?

Isn't this a conflicting reaction to have when one has faith?

Shouldn't the reaction be joy and happiness?

 

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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People become attached to

People become attached to other people sometimes.


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Why do

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Why do people who believe in "god", life after-death, or "heaven" suffer when a loved one has died?

Isn't this a conflicting reaction to have when one has faith?

Shouldn't the reaction be joy and happiness?

 

 

 

Jesus, for example, wept at the death of people he knew were only dead and burried until the resurrection because he knew the pain of the people who would miss them.  

People tend to think that the worst thing that can happen to a person is that they die, and the best thing that can happen to a person is that they go to heaven after they die. Of course, the Bible teaches that death is most likened to sleep, in that there is no pain or sickness or discomfort in the state of death itself. It also teaches that people in general, when they die, don't go to heaven. Out of ignorance religious thinking creates misinformation.


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If I ever

If I have ever heard of a douche bag question, this is it. Your question is so stupid, but I do see your point. But honestly, even if we did believe that, it doesn't mean that we don't suffer from being without them.

You douche bag.

 

Just kidding about the douche bag part.

 

Here's a picture for you all to enjoy:

 


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That’s an interesting

That’s an interesting question. Lack of inner strength? They look at it in an overly sentimental way (ie. the deceased is in heaven watching me)? Not using drugs/alcohol for comfort? Because their god offers them no comfort like they expect, they are unable to cope.

Also, i notice people that have Christian beliefs tend to be afraid of demons/spirits. You would think having god on your side and the name of Jesus would make them fearless. But that is not the case.


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demons

everlastingxxx wrote:

Also, i notice people that have Christian beliefs tend to be afraid of demons/spirits. You would think having god on your side and the name of Jesus would make them fearless. But that is not the case.

When my mother joined my sister's nutty church (JW), the two of them tried to convince me demons were in the world.  Once upon a time, there was a dress.  And the person who wore the dress got ill.  So she gave it to someone else.  Who also got ill.  And then, all the church ladies decided the dress was "possessed".  So they tried to burn it.  It was really hard to burn, they had to get some lighter fluid to make it start and then it stank really bad while it burned.  But then no one got sick again, so it must have destroyed the demon.

My response: Mom, are you nuts?  What was the dress made of?  Polyester?  Polyester doesn't burn so well, does it, it stinks and melts, right?  On top of that, clothes are usually treated with flame retardants, right?  Which makes it even harder to burn.  And you can't tell me no one ever got sick again, that just isn't possible.  Sheeze, did you give up your brains when you joined the church?

Prior to this, I had believed my mom was a fairly intelligent woman.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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digitalbeachbum wrote:Why do

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Why do people who believe in "god", life after-death, or "heaven" suffer when a loved one has died?

Isn't this a conflicting reaction to have when one has faith?

Shouldn't the reaction be joy and happiness?

 

 

Yea I have yet to see anyone rubbing their hands together after a loved one has died and saying something like "oh Bobby he's up there now, lucky bastard! I can't wait till it's my turn!"

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Y are they cryin

Because they phony and fake and them themselves don't truly   believe in god jesus or the other bs, rockon bro

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Why do we miss a

Why do we miss a spouse deployed with the military overseas?  Why do we miss a child who goes away to school?  Because we are designed to live in community.  It's a design which encourages an attachment we call "love".  Life is fraught with uncertainties and we know full well that we may not see that person again, we worry for their well-being.  In the back of our minds we dread that terrible eventuality, we dread the uncertainties that spearation brings.   But, we still hope that all will be well.

To understand the "heaven concept", multiply that uncertainty by four, or five or thirty years.

There ya go.

"With its enduring appeal to the search for truth, philosophy has the great responsibility of forming thought and culture; and now it must strive resolutely to recover its original vocation." Pope John Paul II


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Why do

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Why do people who believe in "god", life after-death, or "heaven" suffer when a loved one has died?

Isn't this a conflicting reaction to have when one has faith?

Shouldn't the reaction be joy and happiness?

 

 

They don't really believe. If you're around any theist long enough, you'll always see them slip up reveal that they are just suckers for Pascal's wager, are given in to social pressure to 'believe' and religion is just wishful thinking.

I think we should stop pretending that theists even really believe, stop indulging their fantasies.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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Does that mean that their

Does that mean that their attachment to the person is greater than their faith?

Ciarin wrote:

People become attached to other people sometimes.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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digitalbeachbum wrote:Does

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Does that mean that their attachment to the person is greater than their faith?

 

Honestly, when you care about someone, it hurts to know you'll never interact with them again.  It doesn't matter if you think they're in a better place, they're in a place you aren't, so you become sad.  There is something wrong if a person, theistic or not, is apathetic at the death of someone close to them.  It's all about emotions, which aren't the same as spirituality.  Basically, it means they're human.


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I'm not sure if any thing

I'm not sure if any thing you had to say related to my question, but if Jesus wept does that mean he too didn't believe in "life after death"? Or did these friends go to hell and he was weeping because he knew they were going to be punished for ever.

 

Also, I am not sure, but I believe Catholics believe in Purgatory only. I'm not sure if there are any other "god of Abraham" religions which believe in limbo.

 

David Henson wrote:

Jesus, for example, wept at the death of people he knew were only dead and buried until the resurrection because he knew the pain of the people who would miss them.  

People tend to think that the worst thing that can happen to a person is that they die, and the best thing that can happen to a person is that they go to heaven after they die. Of course, the Bible teaches that death is most likened to sleep, in that there is no pain or sickness or discomfort in the state of death itself. It also teaches that people in general, when they die, don't go to heaven. Out of ignorance religious thinking creates misinformation.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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Douche bag as a douche bag

Douche bag as a douche bag does...

 

foul5town wrote:

If I have ever heard of a douche bag question, this is it. Your question is so stupid, but I do see your point. But honestly, even if we did believe that, it doesn't mean that we don't suffer from being without them.

You douche bag.

 

Just kidding about the douche bag part.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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digitalbeachbum wrote:I'm

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I'm not sure if any thing you had to say related to my question, but if Jesus wept does that mean he too didn't believe in "life after death"? Or did these friends go to hell and he was weeping because he knew they were going to be punished for ever. 

Also, I am not sure, but I believe Catholics believe in Purgatory only. I'm not sure if there are any other "god of Abraham" religions which believe in limbo.

You asked why, if religious nuts believe you go to heaven after they die, would they be upset upon losing loved ones in death, in a basic sense, correct?

Jesus believed . . . well, actually from a Biblical perspective he didn't just believe, he knew, what happened after death, which was in line with the Bible - namely; that nothing happens to you when you die. No suffering, no pain, no literal torment, no sickness, no consiousness. He wept for the saddness their living loved ones felt because they missed the departed. He wept because he knew it shouldn't have been like that. Had Adam not sinned we wouldn't die. He wept because he loved mankind.

I really don't care what the Catholics or any other religious idiots believe, most of it is bullshit anyway. The Bible doesn't teach the immortal soul or hell.

 

Edit: By the way, I have been meaning to ask you - is your avatar Zamuda or Kaufman? You know what would really be cool? If You had an image of both in exactly the same position, dress and costume and periodically changed them for no apparent reason without telling anyone. That'll teach 'em. Bastards.


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That's a good reply. I

That's a good reply. I didn't think of the "demon/spirit" thing.

I believe that the lack of inner strength could be a key. People who know that their is life after death should think that it is like taking an extended vacation, but they don't.

everlastingxxx wrote:

That’s an interesting question. Lack of inner strength? They look at it in an overly sentimental way (ie. the deceased is in heaven watching me)? Not using drugs/alcohol for comfort? Because their god offers them no comfort like they expect, they are unable to cope.

Also, i notice people that have Christian beliefs tend to be afraid of demons/spirits. You would think having god on your side and the name of Jesus would make them fearless. But that is not the case.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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David Henson wrote:He wept

David Henson wrote:
He wept for the saddness their living loved ones felt because they missed the departed. He wept because he knew it shouldn't have been like that. Had Adam not sinned we wouldn't die. He wept because he loved mankind.

Jesus must have a huge box of kleenex in heaven because people die and leave loved ones behind every second.

The Adam not sinning is such a stupid saying. I know you guys repeat it over and over again, but it really makes zero sense to the unbrainwashed.


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I have had an similar

I have had an similar experience with friends and family.

I had a cousin who became very religious after his wife convinced him that their financial problems were because of god punishing them for his gambling and drinking.

When he "turned to god" the pastor convinced him that he needed to stop drinking and gambling. It took a little bit, but he kicked those habits.

Then many months later he and I were talking and he told me how "Jesus saved him" and told me all the great things that were happening in his life. The family was doing really good, he was doing great at work because he got a big bonus and there was talk of a promotion, blah, blah.

I told him, "you know that because you gave up drinking and gambling that you were able to save money, work more efficiently at your job and also you most likely improved your health (thus saving future problems)".

I told him he could have gotten the same results with out having to become a nut job about his religion (and believe me, he did turn in to a total nut-sack). He is constantly trying to convert other family members and friends who aren't christian and he is always telling us that we are sinners.

 

cj wrote:

When my mother joined my sister's nutty church (JW), the two of them tried to convince me demons were in the world.  Once upon a time, there was a dress.  And the person who wore the dress got ill.  So she gave it to someone else.  Who also got ill.  And then, all the church ladies decided the dress was "possessed".  So they tried to burn it.  It was really hard to burn, they had to get some lighter fluid to make it start and then it stank really bad while it burned.  But then no one got sick again, so it must have destroyed the demon.

My response: Mom, are you nuts?  What was the dress made of?  Polyester?  Polyester doesn't burn so well, does it, it stinks and melts, right?  On top of that, clothes are usually treated with flame retardants, right?  Which makes it even harder to burn.  And you can't tell me no one ever got sick again, that just isn't possible.  Sheeze, did you give up your brains when you joined the church?

Prior to this, I had believed my mom was a fairly intelligent woman.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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digitalbeachbum wrote:That's

digitalbeachbum wrote:

That's a good reply. I didn't think of the "demon/spirit" thing.

I believe that the lack of inner strength could be a key. People who know that their is life after death should think that it is like taking an extended vacation, but they don't.

 

My parents/sisters are religious and they had watched the movie Paranormal Activity and just thought it was the scariest thing they had ever seen. My sister had to have the dvd physically removed from her house because she was so scared. My wife and I on the other hand watched it and thought it was boring and predictable. (The best scary movie i have seen in awhile was Drag me to Hell, that one had a few moments)


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EXC wrote:digitalbeachbum

EXC wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Why do people who believe in "god", life after-death, or "heaven" suffer when a loved one has died?

Isn't this a conflicting reaction to have when one has faith?

Shouldn't the reaction be joy and happiness?

 

 

They don't really believe. If you're around any theist long enough, you'll always see them slip up reveal that they are just suckers for Pascal's wager, are given in to social pressure to 'believe' and religion is just wishful thinking.

I think we should stop pretending that theists even really believe, stop indulging their fantasies.

 

ORLY?

 

I suspect that post is full of shit.

 


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No, why would

No, why would it?

 

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Does that mean that their attachment to the person is greater than their faith?

Ciarin wrote:

People become attached to other people sometimes.

 


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To answer your first two

To answer your first two questions: "fear"

I don't see love as an attachment, but I know many people would call it one.

I don't understand any thing else you stated because it doesn't explain any thing about my question (or at least I don't see your logic).

 

totus_tuus wrote:

Why do we miss a spouse deployed with the military overseas?  Why do we miss a child who goes away to school?  Because we are designed to live in community.  It's a design which encourages an attachment we call "love".  Life is fraught with uncertainties and we know full well that we may not see that person again, we worry for their well-being.  In the back of our minds we dread that terrible eventuality, we dread the uncertainties that separation brings.   But, we still hope that all will be well.

To understand the "heaven concept", multiply that uncertainty by four, or five or thirty years.

There ya go.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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I would say that most

I would say that most theists "want to believe" even though they say "I believe..."

 

EXC wrote:

They don't really believe. If you're around any theist long enough, you'll always see them slip up reveal that they are just suckers for Pascal's wager, are given in to social pressure to 'believe' and religion is just wishful thinking.

I think we should stop pretending that theists even really believe, stop indulging their fantasies.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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Ciarin wrote:EXC

Ciarin wrote:

EXC wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Why do people who believe in "god", life after-death, or "heaven" suffer when a loved one has died?

Isn't this a conflicting reaction to have when one has faith?

Shouldn't the reaction be joy and happiness?

 

 

They don't really believe. If you're around any theist long enough, you'll always see them slip up reveal that they are just suckers for Pascal's wager, are given in to social pressure to 'believe' and religion is just wishful thinking.

I think we should stop pretending that theists even really believe, stop indulging their fantasies.

 

ORLY?

 

I suspect that post is full of shit.

 

And why should I believe you really believe any religious tradition? If you really did truly believe, you would have to be so given to delusional thinking that it would be difficult to function in society. Theists develop a kind of cognitive dissonance where they 'believe' only what is convenient, when it's convenient. I've never meet a so-called theist that truely believes, why should I think you are any different?

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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EXC wrote:And why should I

EXC wrote:

And why should I believe you really believe any religious tradition?

Your beliefs about my beliefs are not my concern, chief.

 

Quote:

If you really did truly believe, you would have to be so given to delusional thinking that it would be difficult to function in society.

That premise seems to be unsupported by reality.

 

Quote:

Theists develop a kind of cognitive dissonance where they 'believe' only what is convenient, when it's convenient.

 

Evidence?

 

Quote:

I've never meet a so-called theist that truely believes, why should I think you are any different?

 

3 possibilities:

 

- you've correctly assessed that all theists are liars.

 

- You haven't met many theists.

 

- You're talking out of your ass.

 

 

The 3rd option seems the most likely.

 

 


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digitalbeachbum wrote:I

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I would say that most theists "want to believe" even though they say "I believe..."

 

How true.

If you go to any church, it's a constant and continual conditioning to remove doubt, to indulge their fantasies about living forever and having a loving protector. The have to continually sing songs of they "I believe" sort. It is not just for new 'believers' it's for the long time devotees.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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David Henson wrote:I really

David Henson wrote:

I really don't care what the Catholics or any other religious idiots believe, most of it is bullshit anyway. The Bible doesn't teach the immortal soul or hell.

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matt 25:41)

 

 

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:14-15) For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons (2 Peter 2:4) The rich man died and went to hell and he says, “I am in agony in this fire.” (Luke 16:24)      

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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EXC wrote:digitalbeachbum

EXC wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I would say that most theists "want to believe" even though they say "I believe..."

 

How true.

If you go to any church, it's a constant and continual conditioning to remove doubt, to indulge their fantasies about living forever and having a loving protector. The have to continually sing songs of they "I believe" sort. It is not just for new 'believers' it's for the long time devotees.

 

Because going to a church will adequately demonstrate people of every religion.


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ChiCityBreeze wrote:Because

ChiCityBreeze wrote:

Because they phony and fake and them themselves don't truly   believe in god jesus or the other bs, rockon bro

 

LOL, pass the weed bro-sef.


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Why do

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Why do people who believe in "god", life after-death, or "heaven" suffer when a loved one has died?

Isn't this a conflicting reaction to have when one has faith?

Shouldn't the reaction be joy and happiness? 

What makes you think that people of faith should never have conflicts?

"Scientists animated by the purpose of proving they are purposeless constitute an interesting subject for study." - Alfred North Whitehead


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Ciarin wrote:Your beliefs

Ciarin wrote:

Your beliefs about my beliefs are not my concern, chief. 

Quote:

I know, this is a very sensitive area with so called theists. They derive alot of pleasure from their feelings of moral superiority and specialness at being one of "the chosen ones". When I do challenge theists about their claims of 'belief' and and I show them how inconsistent their actions and beliefs are if they truly believe. This is the typical reaction, one of anger and denial.

Ciarin wrote:

That premise seems to be unsupported by reality.

Quote:

The reality is people's religious affiliation is nearly 100% of the time correlated with the society and family one is born into. Hardly what we'd expect to see from people that on their own choose to 'believe'.

The poster pointed out that theists are a given to depression  about death. Also, we don't see theists being daredevils being fearlessly engaged in extreme sports that could lead to death. Hardly what to expect from people expecting paradise after death. Also we don't see theists going to hypnotists to remove all doubt, psychologists to test whether they really believe. This is unexpected behavior from people that 'believing' with no doubt is the only way to eternal paradise.

Theists develop a kind of cognitive dissonance where they 'believe' only what is convenient, when it's convenient.

Ciarin wrote:

Evidence? 

Quote:

There are pleanty of articles on Cognitive Dissonance I can point you to prove it a real phenomena. The fact that religious views change to meet whatever the zeitgeist is another example of how people adjust their views to whatever is convenient. Their belief is not genuine, it's what's convenient for the times.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

http://www.examiner.com/x-10853-Portland-Humanist-Examiner~y2009m8d22-Religion-Cognitive-dissonance-and-Christianity

 

Ciarin wrote:

- you've correctly assessed that all theists are liars.

Quote:

Many are. That is why you see so many pastors and priest taking advantage of the flock. But its more the fact that people can develop a mechanisms for self-denial both to maintain social popularity and to feel better. People can learn to act and if you play the role long enough the act becomes your reality.

Ciarin wrote:

- You haven't met many theists.

Quote:

Way to many. For most, it's just they way they were raised and they never  bother thinking that deeply about what they believe and why. Religion is just their conditioning. Then there are the fanatics that have mastered the art of self delusion in order to make themselves get high on religion.

Ciarin wrote:

- You're talking out of your ass.

The 3rd option seems the most likely.

Quote:

 

Nope. Here are some supposedly strong Christians slipping up and revealing what they really believe:

"We're both betting. He's betting his life that he's right. I'm betting my life that Jesus was not a liar. When we die, if he's right, I've lost nothing. If I'm right, he's lost everything. I'm not willing to make that gamble." Rick Warren reveals he 'believes' because it's a good bet.

 

“There is so much contradiction in my soul, such deep longing for God, so deep that it is painful, a suffering continual — yet not wanted by God, repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal. ... Heaven means nothing to me, it looks like an empty place.” Mother Teresa on her cognitive dissonance.

 

The fact is theists only believe things that are beyond the realm of scientific evidence. They adjust their beliefs to only what is convenient. You may believe that prayer can heal people, but then if when challenged to produce evidence, there is always a convenient excuse.

Religion is convenience, god is whatever is convenient.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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holy shit, someone needs to


 

holy shit, someone needs to work on their quoting skills.

 

HAHA!!


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EXC wrote:I know, this

EXC wrote:

I know, this is a very sensitive area with so called theists. They derive alot of pleasure from their feelings of moral superiority and specialness at being one of "the chosen ones". When I do challenge theists about their claims of 'belief' and and I show them how inconsistent their actions and beliefs are if they truly believe. This is the typical reaction, one of anger and denial.

 

When you say "so called theists" and "they" are you referring to all theists or just christians?

 

btw, you can challenge my claims of belief anytime, you will find no inconsistencies, Eye-wink.

 

 


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I don't get why some of you

I don't get why some of you think people shouldn't be sad when someone dies? WTF?


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Ciarin wrote:I don't get why

Ciarin wrote:

I don't get why some of you think people shouldn't be sad when someone dies? WTF?

 

I'm surprised by it too.  Doesn't make sense to me that theism means no sorrow at death.


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everlastingxxx

everlastingxxx wrote:

My parents/sisters are religious and they had watched the movie Paranormal Activity and just thought it was the scariest thing they had ever seen. My sister had to have the dvd physically removed from her house because she was so scared. My wife and I on the other hand watched it and thought it was boring and predictable. (The best scary movie i have seen in awhile was Drag me to Hell, that one had a few moments)

The demonic appears to feed on fear.

"Scientists animated by the purpose of proving they are purposeless constitute an interesting subject for study." - Alfred North Whitehead


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Why is it wrong for a person

Why is it wrong for a person to be apathetic at the death of some one close to them? I actually find it conflicting to be emotional and sad about the death of a loved one if you believe in god, jesus or life after death.

The source of the saddness one feels at the passing of the loved one is not the actual passing of the loved one, it's a fear that they are gone and that they will never see them again. 

v4ultingbassist wrote:

Honestly, when you care about someone, it hurts to know you'll never interact with them again.  It doesn't matter if you think they're in a better place, they're in a place you aren't, so you become sad.  There is something wrong if a person, theistic or not, is apathetic at the death of someone close to them.  It's all about emotions, which aren't the same as spirituality.  Basically, it means they're human.

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It isn't wrong to be

It isn't wrong to be apathetic about a loved one's death, it's just not normal. Most humans will be sad, though, and there's nothing wrong with that regardless of their beliefs or lack thereof.


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Why is

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Why is it wrong for a person to be apathetic at the death of some one close to them? I actually find it conflicting to be emotional and sad about the death of a loved one if you believe in god, jesus or life after death.

The source of the saddness one feels at the passing of the loved one is not the actual passing of the loved one, it's a fear that they are gone and that they will never see them again. 

 

Like someone else said, what if someone close to you said they were moving to the other side of the world and you wouldn't be able to see them for 15 years or so?  If you care about them, you are going to miss them.  Believing in life after death just softens the blow of them leaving, because you think you'll see them once you die.  Just because you think you'll see them again, doesn't mean you should be happy that you don't get to see them for twenty some years.  Humans are social creatures, we like company.  As such, when someone close to us suddenly stops interacting with us, we have an emotional, instinctual, reaction to that event: sorrow. 


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v4ultingbassist wrote:Like

v4ultingbassist wrote:


Like someone else said, what if someone close to you said they were moving to the other side of the world and you wouldn't be able to see them for 15 years or so?  If you care about them, you are going to miss them.  Believing in life after death just softens the blow of them leaving, because you think you'll see them once you die.  Just because you think you'll see them again, doesn't mean you should be happy that you don't get to see them for twenty some years.  Humans are social creatures, we like company.  As such, when someone close to us suddenly stops interacting with us, we have an emotional, instinctual, reaction to that event: sorrow. 

 

If they care about them, they would rejoice that they have moved on to Heaven. If you had a relative move up from a shack to a mansion...wouldn’t you feel extremely happy for them? They no longer have to battle bills, disease, death, hunger, pain...they will only feel joy for eternity with the Creator. It is actually their selfishness that they are feeling sad because they are not able to see that person. The deceased won’t miss them because that would be feeling pain in Heaven, plus being with God is much better than being with anyone else. But if the people on earth missed them bad enough, they can find a way to die and join them quickly in Heaven. In fact, a true Christian that believes in Heaven would kill their entire family to get them to Heaven ASAP and away from the Devils world and his children (bibles words).


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everlastingxxx wrote:If they

everlastingxxx wrote:


If they care about them, they would rejoice that they have moved on to Heaven. If you had a relative move up from a shack to a mansion...wouldn’t you feel extremely happy for them? They no longer have to battle bills, disease, death, hunger, pain...they will only feel joy for eternity with the Creator. It is actually their selfishness that they are feeling sad because they are not able to see that person. The deceased won’t miss them because that would be feeling pain in Heaven, plus being with God is much better than being with anyone else. But if the people on earth missed them bad enough, they can find a way to die and join them quickly in Heaven. In fact, a true Christian that believes in Heaven would kill their entire family to get them to Heaven ASAP and away from the Devils world and his children (bibles words).

 

I am essentially arguing that the emotion is instinctual, not turned on or off consciously.  You don't decide to get sad about anything, it just happens.  You may think very strongly that you're happy for them, but the instinct will kick because you know just as strongly that you won't see them for a while.


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I think the explanation that

I think the explanation that you suffer because you miss the person only raises the question of why you react differently to a death than to a change of address for example. If someone moves away you might cry but you probably won't wear black clothes and hold a vigil. If crying, wearing black clothes, and holding a vigil are merely expressions of your grief about the fact of the person's temporary absence and not an acknowledgment that anything unfortunate has happened to them or that their absence is permanent  then why not act like people have died whenever they leave?

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


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everlastingxxx wrote:My

everlastingxxx wrote:

My parents/sisters are religious and they had watched the movie Paranormal Activity and just thought it was the scariest thing they had ever seen. My sister had to have the dvd physically removed from her house because she was so scared. My wife and I on the other hand watched it and thought it was boring and predictable. (The best scary movie i have seen in awhile was Drag me to Hell, that one had a few moments)

Only one movie has left me with a fear of the dark and that is the original Last Man On Earth with Vincent Price, but only when I'm watching the movie.

Even then, I learned a long time ago that if you ever fear a movie, just imagine all the cameras, lights, director, etc who are working on the set during the time of that "scene" which scares you. Once you see behind the curtain the fear dissipates.

The same goes with life, death, etc.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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You said "no", so are you

You said "no", so are you saying that it is never the case? As if it is 100% of the time for all faith based individuals?

I'd love to see the poll data on that one.

Ciarin wrote:

No, why would it?

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Does that mean that their attachment to the person is greater than their faith?

Ciarin wrote:

People become attached to other people sometimes.

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Now that you mention it,

Now that you mention it, yes, it's very true. I grew up in a Catholic church, I sort of stopped going around 20 when I had a license and a car to drive myself and didn't have to be forced to go. Counting the number of times I went from a baby to 20, I attended regular mass a maximum of 1040 times (not including special services like weddings, funerals, Ash Wed, etc).

To this day, I can still recite the proceedings in mass. I can tell you when we kneel, stand, sit, and what we respond. As proof, I went to a funeral last summer (a Catholic one). During mass I found myself saying things before they needed to be said and I would often scold myself as a reminder that I have been brainwashed all those years in to repeating this stuff over and over again.

EXC wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I would say that most theists "want to believe" even though they say "I believe..."

How true.

If you go to any church, it's a constant and continual conditioning to remove doubt, to indulge their fantasies about living forever and having a loving protector. The have to continually sing songs of they "I believe" sort. It is not just for new 'believers' it's for the long time devotees.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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Good question, but I

Good question, but I don't.

The question I asked was because I can't recall not seeing christian people respond in this manner. Is it conditioning? Is it lack of training?

Why do they do so? I don't and I'm an Atheist. When some one dies, that's it. They are dead. If any thing I should be wailing any time a friend or family member dies.

 

Paisley wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Why do people who believe in "god", life after-death, or "heaven" suffer when a loved one has died?

Isn't this a conflicting reaction to have when one has faith?

Shouldn't the reaction be joy and happiness? 

What makes you think that people of faith should never have conflicts?

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You say this as if you have

You say this as if you have some thing to prove to the world...

 

Ciarin wrote:

btw, you can challenge my claims of belief anytime, you will find no inconsistencies, Eye-wink.

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Let me clarify...I am sad

Let me clarify...

I am sad when some one dies because they are gone, forever. No heaven, no purgatory, etc.

If you are sad when some one dies, why are you sad?

What if they leave your home after vacation? Most likely, you won't be sad because you know you will see them again next summer or maybe Christmas, but sure, you will miss them, BUT, you will know that you will see them again next year, etc.

When they die, your response is? Fear? of the unknown? You don't know that you will see them again do you? You might say "I will see them again soon in heaven", but in reality, you cry and are sad because?

It is a conflict in logic. Why be sad when you know you will see them again?

 

Ciarin wrote:

I don't get why some of you think people shouldn't be sad when someone dies? WTF?

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Thank you.Ciarin wrote:It

Thank you.

Ciarin wrote:

It isn't wrong to be apathetic about a loved one's death, it's just not normal. Most humans will be sad, though, and there's nothing wrong with that regardless of their beliefs or lack thereof.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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Interesting point

 

I guess this is what many suicide cults convince themselves of before hoeing into the poison. I wonder if there could be some sort of Logan's Run reality show kicked off that allowed the godly to get alongside jesus more rapidly than by waiting for natural deterioration...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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The response of a person

The response of a person dying and a person moving away are, almost always, two completely different responses. I don't see people falling over crying, lamenting for months and months after a loved one moved away (except during relationships based on sex and romance, but we are really talking about relationships like a parent loosing a child, etc).

Missing a person is totally different than the feeling a being sad.

Humans are conditional creatures. We live to satisfy our egos.

v4ultingbassist wrote:

Like someone else said, what if someone close to you said they were moving to the other side of the world and you wouldn't be able to see them for 15 years or so?  If you care about them, you are going to miss them.  Believing in life after death just softens the blow of them leaving, because you think you'll see them once you die.  Just because you think you'll see them again, doesn't mean you should be happy that you don't get to see them for twenty some years.  Humans are social creatures, we like company.  As such, when someone close to us suddenly stops interacting with us, we have an emotional, instinctual, reaction to that event: sorrow. 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams