A rash of Church burnings in Texas, someone needs to catch this/these assholes!

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A rash of Church burnings in Texas, someone needs to catch this/these assholes!

I think EVERYONE here should rightfully condemn these acts. Some sicko is burning down churches of all classes and denominations in Texas. I hope this person gets caught, and I hope this is merely the act of a demented person.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE EVER for destruction of property or advocating violence!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-02-10-church-fires-texas_N.htm

Muslim or atheist, or nutcase, whatever. Catch this/these sickos!

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Brian37 wrote:THERE IS NO

Brian37 wrote:



THERE IS NO EXCUSE EVER for destruction of property or advocating violence!

I must disagree, there are plenty of exuses and valid ones. But that is for a differant topic, I agree catch the people and string them up by there ankles. That is unless there is a legit motive..... wait scratch that as those responsible havent come forward to say why the churchs were burned, its still wrong even if there was just cause.

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No animal shall kill any other animal.
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 One person commented that

 One person commented that they think it is an atheist who did the deed. 

I would suspect burglars, kids and members of the church before them. There can be a lot of conflict inside a church and some quiet abusive. I know this from being in on the inside. I even still have friends on the inside and the stories they tell would get your ire up. One guy I know is separated from his wife because the pastor and the elders told her to do so. Mind control of the worst ilk. 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

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ex-minister wrote: One

ex-minister wrote:

 One person commented that they think it is an atheist who did the deed. 

I would suspect burglars, kids and members of the church before them. There can be a lot of conflict inside a church and some quiet abusive. I know this from being in on the inside. I even still have friends on the inside and the stories they tell would get your ire up. One guy I know is separated from his wife because the pastor and the elders told her to do so. Mind control of the worst ilk. 

I don't give a shit if they were atheists.

This has to do with destroying property one doesn't own. Human empathy should say that you don't do that.

What should these people who go to these Churches think? Should they care if an atheist did this, or should they merely care about it stopping and the persons responsible being caught?

What would YOU want if it were your property destroyed?

What if a Christian went around destroying the the property of atheists because they were atheists? Would you say, "Oh it's ok, because they are merely fighting for what they believe"? Would it matter if our personal property were destroyed by an abusive spouse or by a random nutcase?

What makes anyone think they wouldn't have the same emotions in reaction to such an event, even if they wouldn't react the same way?

 

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Brian37 wrote:ex-minister

Brian37 wrote:

ex-minister wrote:

 One person commented that they think it is an atheist who did the deed. 

I would suspect burglars, kids and members of the church before them. There can be a lot of conflict inside a church and some quiet abusive. I know this from being in on the inside. I even still have friends on the inside and the stories they tell would get your ire up. One guy I know is separated from his wife because the pastor and the elders told her to do so. Mind control of the worst ilk. 

I don't give a shit if they were atheists.

This has to do with destroying property one doesn't own. Human empathy should say that you don't do that.

What should these people who go to these Churches think? Should they care if an atheist did this, or should they merely care about it stopping and the persons responsible being caught?

What would YOU want if it were your property destroyed?

What if a Christian went around destroying the the property of atheists because they were atheists? Would you say, "Oh it's ok, because they are merely fighting for what they believe"? Would it matter if our personal property were destroyed by an abusive spouse or by a random nutcase?

What makes anyone think they wouldn't have the same emotions in reaction to such an event, even if they wouldn't react the same way?

 

 

I agree with you Brian.   I don't give a shit.

This is the same bullshit that ELF and other eco-terrorists pull out as though it justifies them to fuck with people's property

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It is often quite arbitrary

It is often quite arbitrary whether you label someone a "terrorist" or a "freedom fighter".

Or, rather, it is a part of your own, personal agenda.

Myself, I can see many more reasons to burn down churches than to leave them alone. Christians are not innocent bystanders in the act of repressing and actively destroying human lives. They may not be "guilty" of any direct acts themselves, but they are in support of a system of agency which is also fostering the worst kind of human scum. Paedophilia - to menion but one thing - is an inbuilt function of the Christian paradigm. I encourage anyone to give me but one example of a paedophile or a serial killer that wasn't raised in a Christian environment. If you sow misery, you shall harvest wrath.

This is not about property. This is war.

For the record: I do not in any way support acts of violence against anybody (or even anything).

There are more constructive ways to solve this problem. But I understand the anger; misguided as it may be.

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Brian37 wrote:ex-minister

Brian37 wrote:

ex-minister wrote:

 One person commented that they think it is an atheist who did the deed. 

I would suspect burglars, kids and members of the church before them. There can be a lot of conflict inside a church and some quiet abusive. I know this from being in on the inside. I even still have friends on the inside and the stories they tell would get your ire up. One guy I know is separated from his wife because the pastor and the elders told her to do so. Mind control of the worst ilk. 

I don't give a shit if they were atheists.

This has to do with destroying property one doesn't own. Human empathy should say that you don't do that.

What should these people who go to these Churches think? Should they care if an atheist did this, or should they merely care about it stopping and the persons responsible being caught?

What would YOU want if it were your property destroyed?

What if a Christian went around destroying the the property of atheists because they were atheists? Would you say, "Oh it's ok, because they are merely fighting for what they believe"? Would it matter if our personal property were destroyed by an abusive spouse or by a random nutcase?

What makes anyone think they wouldn't have the same emotions in reaction to such an event, even if they wouldn't react the same way?

 

 

Not sure if you mean to direct that to me or not. I totally agree. These perpetrators must be caught and locked up. They are a danger to society.

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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Marquis wrote:I encourage

Marquis wrote:

I encourage anyone to give me but one example of a paedophile or a serial killer that wasn't raised in a Christian environment. If you sow misery, you shall harvest wrath.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3225864.stm

 

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Marquis wrote:It is often

Marquis wrote:

It is often quite arbitrary whether you label someone a "terrorist" or a "freedom fighter".

Or, rather, it is a part of your own, personal agenda.

Myself, I can see many more reasons to burn down churches than to leave them alone. Christians are not innocent bystanders in the act of repressing and actively destroying human lives. They may not be "guilty" of any direct acts themselves, but they are in support of a system of agency which is also fostering the worst kind of human scum. Paedophilia - to menion but one thing - is an inbuilt function of the Christian paradigm. I encourage anyone to give me but one example of a paedophile or a serial killer that wasn't raised in a Christian environment. If you sow misery, you shall harvest wrath.

This is not about property. This is war.

For the record: I do not in any way support acts of violence against anybody (or even anything).

There are more constructive ways to solve this problem. But I understand the anger; misguided as it may be.

THANK YOU for that IMPORTANT distinction.

Understanding WHY a human behaves a certain way in a given context is not the same as excusing a behavior.

I'd prefer there be no religion in the world and IT IS A WAR, but you can also conduct a war intellectually without actually acting out in real physical violence.

But lets not loose our empathy in stating this, believers ALSO see it as a war and just like you correctly stated, should also understand that as well.

I think humanity would be better off by accepting the difference.

I think it would be in this context  important to UNDERSTAND, even if we find god belief silly and dangerous, that believers have emotional reactions to these types of actions as well. I don't think you have to be a believer to UNDERSTAND it.

BUT if it is just a nutcase with a mental illness then it is about property. If Christians are assuming that it is a Muslim or atheist then it is a war. But in either case humans ARE predictable in their behavior. Not in a literal sense, just as a description that we do have the same range of emotions and actions, good or bad.

I don't have to agree with someone OR their actions to know the difference between behavior and understanding the behavior and accept that understanding and excusing are not the same thing.

 

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ex-minister wrote:Brian37

ex-minister wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

ex-minister wrote:

 One person commented that they think it is an atheist who did the deed. 

I would suspect burglars, kids and members of the church before them. There can be a lot of conflict inside a church and some quiet abusive. I know this from being in on the inside. I even still have friends on the inside and the stories they tell would get your ire up. One guy I know is separated from his wife because the pastor and the elders told her to do so. Mind control of the worst ilk. 

I don't give a shit if they were atheists.

This has to do with destroying property one doesn't own. Human empathy should say that you don't do that.

What should these people who go to these Churches think? Should they care if an atheist did this, or should they merely care about it stopping and the persons responsible being caught?

What would YOU want if it were your property destroyed?

What if a Christian went around destroying the the property of atheists because they were atheists? Would you say, "Oh it's ok, because they are merely fighting for what they believe"? Would it matter if our personal property were destroyed by an abusive spouse or by a random nutcase?

What makes anyone think they wouldn't have the same emotions in reaction to such an event, even if they wouldn't react the same way?

 

 

Not sure if you mean to direct that to me or not. I totally agree. These perpetrators must be caught and locked up. They are a danger to society.

 

Agreed.

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Sterculius wrote:Marquis

Sterculius wrote:

Marquis wrote:

I encourage anyone to give me but one example of a paedophile or a serial killer that wasn't raised in a Christian environment. If you sow misery, you shall harvest wrath.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3225864.stm

 

I know we're straying off topic here but... Interestingly enough Yang Xinhai was born in a very christian part of Henan. See the dark area to the south of this pdf map indicating denser christian populations? Over to the left of that band you'll see a county called Zhengyang - that's where Yang Xinhai was born and raised.

Edit: Oh and P.S. that's not to say he was definitely raised in a christian environment. A single map can't establish that for sure, of course. However he can't certainly be an example of a Serial Killer who was definitely not influenced by christianity.

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:o

 I believe I read a few years back that by far the majority of church arsons on record have been committed by someone that attends, or used to attend that church.

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I nearly burned down a church

 

As a kid I nearly burned down my father's church on the Bangalow Rd at Clunes. My brother and I were 'camping' behind the church and our fire got carried away with its own success.

Fortunately my elder brother came along to help before things got out of hand.

On topic I don't like churches or mosques and at times I have felt upwelling urges to destroy them but I am happy enough seeing them converted to some 7-day-a-week purpose, like a house or a cafe or something.

Interestingly, we've had churches firebombed in Sydney by men of 'middle eastern appearance'. Somehow I don't think they were jews.

 

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Marquis wrote:I encourage

Marquis wrote:

I encourage anyone to give me but one example of a paedophile or a serial killer that wasn't raised in a Christian environment. If you sow misery, you shall harvest wrath.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ausonius

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Rubel

 

 

 

 

 


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Atheistextremist wrote: As

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

As a kid I nearly burned down my father's church on the Bangalow Rd at Clunes. My brother and I were 'camping' behind the church and our fire got carried away with its own success.

Fortunately my elder brother came along to help before things got out of hand.

On topic I don't like churches or mosques and at times I have felt upwelling urges to destroy them but I am happy enough seeing them converted to some 7-day-a-week purpose, like a house or a cafe or something.

Interestingly, we've had churches firebombed in Sydney by men of 'middle eastern appearance'. Somehow I don't think they were jews.

 

What, come on, we have stories of Jews in America all the time torching Mosques all the time. You lie. They are soooooo violent, you know, just like atheists are.

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Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

(Don't tell Marquis I'm side-swiping the Lebs or he'll get out the nipple clamps...)

 

 

 

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Eloise wrote:Sterculius

Eloise wrote:

Sterculius wrote:

Marquis wrote:

I encourage anyone to give me but one example of a paedophile or a serial killer that wasn't raised in a Christian environment. If you sow misery, you shall harvest wrath.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3225864.stm

 

I know we're straying off topic here but... Interestingly enough Yang Xinhai was born in a very christian part of Henan. See the dark area to the south of this pdf map indicating denser christian populations? Over to the left of that band you'll see a county called Zhengyang - that's where Yang Xinhai was born and raised.

Edit: Oh and P.S. that's not to say he was definitely raised in a christian environment. A single map can't establish that for sure, of course. However he can't certainly be an example of a Serial Killer who was definitely not influenced by christianity.

 

I can't prove that he wasn't influenced by Christianity but nothing in the evidence of the case or his quotes suggests such a connection.

I would suggest that as far as cultures go even a county that is 20-49% christian doesn't qualify as a christian environment.
After all the government of China can hardly be said to promote christianity in mainstream media and culture there.

His stated motive was revenge for a girlfriend who dumped him.   He had already seen prison time for rapes.
He said that killing people wasn't a big deal it was normal.
He said that he liked killing people.

Let me ask you a hypothetical. 
If there was a Hassidic Jew who was a serial killer in America would you say that even though America is largely christian influenced in culture (much more so than China)  that he was influenced by christianity or try to bring about the same premise that he was influenced by christianity based on American demographics?


I'm not sure that the generalized demographics can really tell us anything other than yep there are christians in the area.

The best you can do with bringing up the county demographics is cast a generalized doubt on the situation. 
This fact is also mitigated by the fact that China is culturally not open to religion in general.
No evidence in specific to the case suggests christian influence.

I see no compelling evidence to disqualify him as a strong example requested.

Doesn't seem like you have a very strong case.

 

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Sterculius wrote:I see no

Sterculius wrote:

I see no compelling evidence to disqualify him as a strong example requested.

 

I believe you have a strong point there - and I also beleve that I made a mistake when I added "...and serial killers" to an already finished sentence. My only excuse for this transgression is that I got carried away by the context's rich associative material of historical exampes of how a Christian upbringing has twisted the psyche of so very many future "monsters". However, it is a fallacy of stereotyping to claim that this is limited to Christian upbringings alone - and it is also a bit of a stretch to make such a claim without having any statistical data to back it up with - so it remains to be said that this is my opinion which is based in my personal and non-linear/subjective perception only.

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I do wonder about pedophiles

I do wonder about pedophiles though.

I might spend some time doing research on that.

I wonder if there can be a connection shown between the twisted sexual repression of christians and pedophelia.

I don't know but it seems like it might be interesting to investigate.

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Sterculius wrote:I do wonder

Sterculius wrote:

I do wonder about pedophiles though.

I might spend some time doing research on that.

I wonder if there can be a connection shown between the twisted sexual repression of christians and pedophelia.

I don't know but it seems like it might be interesting to investigate.

I think religion certainly fucks up most aspects of life. But morso that it hinders the investigation of psychological problem/environment/nurture vs nature/social........I think human problems, including this would still exist even without religion.

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I would agree...

Brian37 wrote:

Sterculius wrote:

I do wonder about pedophiles though.

I might spend some time doing research on that.

I wonder if there can be a connection shown between the twisted sexual repression of christians and pedophelia.

I don't know but it seems like it might be interesting to investigate.

I think religion certainly fucks up most aspects of life. But morso that it hinders the investigation of psychological problem/environment/nurture vs nature/social........I think human problems, including this would still exist even without religion.

I think it would be difficult to show a correlation between sexual deviancy and religion.  For example, BDSM is a form of sexual deviancy (note, I am not casting judgement here, and I have had some limited exposure to the community...Marquis could speak more on this).  This is simply a desire that the person has in the sexual realm, whether BDSM, D/s, or other forms.  From my experience, and from what I have also seen from the outside, these are simply sexual desires, and they can be there whether the person grows up with or without religion, as my wife enjoys some D/s play but grew up atheist.  I would say the pedophelia is the extreme, harmful end of sexual deviancy, as this involves people who do not have the capacity to consent.  I would put beastiality in there as well, as an animal has no way to consent on human terms.

Religion can lead to sexual repression, and the expression of sexual repression is much different than sexual deviancy.  People who are sexually repressed may feel undue guilt or fear with sex, and they may even go into a form of denial that sex isn't that important.  To me, this is the damage that can be done by religion, not sexual deviancy.

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kidvelvet wrote:BDSM is a

kidvelvet wrote:
BDSM is a form of sexual deviancy (note, I am not casting judgement here, and I have had some limited exposure to the community...Marquis could speak more on this)

 

Certainly.

BDSM is an acronym which is composed of the three "power vectors" Bondage & Discipline, Dominance & Submission, Sadism & Masochism. It is a very vast umbrella which covers just about any conceivable human "perversion", insofar they are legal. There really is no 'community' as such, but there are many groups of people who meet to discuss and/or practice their thing, or just to socialise. Most of that which is labelled "fetishes" fit within the BDSM umbrella, although many make the fallacious assumption that BDSM is mostly about sadomasochism (i.e. impact play, stress and pain). In truth, the project of the majority of people who gravitate towards BDSM is to reach a personal truth about who they are and what they feel about life in this world. It must also be remarked that although there are "hard core" people who practice things that are frightening on the broder of unbelievable to "normal" people, most practicioners of BDSM are quite benevolent and intelligent people who look, act and sound very normal; they just like to stretch their imagination and expand their sexual experiences, within the relationship that they're in.

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Marquis wrote:kidvelvet

Marquis wrote:

kidvelvet wrote:
BDSM is a form of sexual deviancy (note, I am not casting judgement here, and I have had some limited exposure to the community...Marquis could speak more on this)

 

Certainly.

BDSM is an acronym which is composed of the three "power vectors" Bondage & Discipline, Dominance & Submission, Sadism & Masochism. It is a very vast umbrella which covers just about any conceivable human "perversion", insofar they are legal. There really is no 'community' as such, but there are many groups of people who meet to discuss and/or practice their thing, or just to socialise. Most of that which is labelled "fetishes" fit within the BDSM umbrella, although many make the fallacious assumption that BDSM is mostly about sadomasochism (i.e. impact play, stress and pain). In truth, the project of the majority of people who gravitate towards BDSM is to reach a personal truth about who they are and what they feel about life in this world. It must also be remarked that although there are "hard core" people who practice things that are frightening on the broder of unbelievable to "normal" people, most practicioners of BDSM are quite benevolent and intelligent people who look, act and sound very normal; they just like to stretch their imagination and expand their sexual experiences, within the relationship that they're in.

 

 

True Dat.

 

But as for these Church burnings, frankly I don't give a shit. To me it's like a kid toucher getting the crap beat out of him in prison...Don't Care.


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Suspected Church Arsonists Arrested

Brian37 wrote:

I think EVERYONE here should rightfully condemn these acts. Some sicko is burning down churches of all classes and denominations in Texas. I hope this person gets caught, and I hope this is merely the act of a demented person.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE EVER for destruction of property or advocating violence!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-02-10-church-fires-texas_N.htm

Muslim or atheist, or nutcase, whatever. Catch this/these sickos!

2 men in Texas have been arrested for the series of church arsons. In the NY times article no reasons are given why though burglary is suggested.

See : http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/23/us/23churches.html

 

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Here is what bugs me.

Here is what bugs me. According to the article the charges give special treatment to "houses of worship".

WHAT THE FUCK? So it is less of a crime if you burn down your own house for insurance? It is less of a crime if you burn down your neighbor's house out of revenge? How about arson meaning arson without special treatment to religion?

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:Here is what

Brian37 wrote:

Here is what bugs me. According to the article the charges give special treatment to "houses of worship".

WHAT THE FUCK? So it is less of a crime if you burn down your own house for insurance? It is less of a crime if you burn down your neighbor's house out of revenge? How about arson meaning arson without special treatment to religion?

 

 

 

Society tends to add mitigating factors into consideration.    Such factors are things like motivation or whether they were racially motivated.   I'm sure that this falls under the category of religious persecution.    This is legitimately crap.    Destroying religious buildings can be a source of great trauma for those who use them and instigate more violence.    I personally think that hate crimes should be smashed down on hard.    If you're going to do something which has a potentially destabilizing effect on the community and could incite more violence then I think that should be dealt with more than if you just burn your neighbor's house down..

"Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girls sports, such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing and such."
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pauljohntheskeptic
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Brian37 wrote:Here is what

Brian37 wrote:

Here is what bugs me. According to the article the charges give special treatment to "houses of worship".

WHAT THE FUCK? So it is less of a crime if you burn down your own house for insurance? It is less of a crime if you burn down your neighbor's house out of revenge? How about arson meaning arson without special treatment to religion?

  

Well, we are talking about Texas. If it was Kansas you might be burned at the stake in the churchyard - just kidding Kansas as Bill Maher would say.

You are correct, you would serve less time for burning down your neighbors house. In the case of your own house you might also get charged with insurance fraud if it was done to collect on it.

Usually arson with mitigating or special circumstances means someone dies in the course of the fire. In the case of church fires it is considered a hate crime as well in most states thus bringing on the special treatment aspect. If their sole purpose was burglary however the special treatment shouldn't apply as they were only trying to cover up the theft.

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After you declare victory in

After you declare victory in this war. . .

What will the consequences for those who still wish to remain theist be?

*Possibly you have not thought this far when you decided to use the word 'WAR'

*Possibly this is a war which you fight for your personal fun and entertainment - you enjoy the intellectual sparring and nothing else.   Therefore your true intention is to never win, Hitchens said this in Collision(to my shock).  Not so much though he now profits greatly by fighting this war.

If theism wins we have well documented historical and modern data(as recent as of date of this post) which clearly suggests that history will be rewritten, threats of eternal punishment will be used, misinformation will be spread and you will be socially excommunicated.  If after proclaiming victory there are still those who wish to remain non-theist 'real deal' physical violence, torture and murder are acceptable as prescribed by many of their holy books. 

 

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Honestly I have no solution or answer.  Therefore I am interested in hearing the answers & solutions of others.