Don't ask don't tell

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Don't ask don't tell

I'm sure you already know this, but don't ask don't tell is a policy that doesn't allow openly gay people to serve in the US military.  I personally think that this policy is unnecessary and bigoted, but I could be wrong so decided to see what other people think.

 

So what do you think?

 

 


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RatDog wrote:I'm sure you

RatDog wrote:

I'm sure you already know this, but don't ask don't tell is a policy that doesn't allow openly gay people to serve in the US military.  I personally think that this policy is unnecessary and bigoted, but I could be wrong so decided to see what other people think.

 

So what do you think?

 

Firstly, DADT is a bout THE worst by-product of Clinton-era thinking...

Secondly, you're in a tight combat situ, you're not going to give a goddamn if the person watching your back is straight/gay/Ed Wood... you're simply going to hope you both don't get your brains splattered everywhere.

End of story.

(And if you military figures/politicians are lucky, nobody will have to go home with life-long PTSD... pretty nasty stuff, it is.)

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Well, I don't think that it

Well, I don't think that it has anything to do with being open about the matter. It was, is and continues to be all about staying in the closet. At most, it is about providing a tiny amount of protection for diesel dykes who would prefer flannel shirt to uniform ones not being forced out of the military because they “seem gay”.

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 As a vet that will soon be

 As a vet that will soon be returning to the military all I can say is who gives a shit. If the person can do their job then let them do it. In my squadron alone I believe I served with 3 gays that I knew of. Everyone knew they were gay. Of course, myself included, made jokes, but no one really cared. I think the only way it will become an issue is if the military tries to force acceptance on the matter. If I have to start attending gay rights briefings then I would probably get annoyed by it. Service members will accept it or they won't, but at the end of the day they will have to get over it. It will cause some stir in the media at first, but soon after no one will care bc I don't think it will change things too much. 

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marshalltenbears wrote: As

marshalltenbears wrote:

 As a vet that will soon be returning to the military all I can say is who gives a shit. If the person can do their job then let them do it. In my squadron alone I believe I served with 3 gays that I knew of. Everyone knew they were gay. Of course, myself included, made jokes, but no one really cared. I think the only way it will become an issue is if the military tries to force acceptance on the matter. If I have to start attending gay rights briefings then I would probably get annoyed by it. Service members will accept it or they won't, but at the end of the day they will have to get over it. It will cause some stir in the media at first, but soon after no one will care bc I don't think it will change things too much. 

 

I agree .   Honestly I don't give a damn who you're fucking (gay or straight) as long as you can do your job properly.

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marshalltenbears wrote: As

marshalltenbears wrote:

 As a vet that will soon be returning to the military all I can say is who gives a shit. If the person can do their job then let them do it. In my squadron alone I believe I served with 3 gays that I knew of. Everyone knew they were gay. Of course, myself included, made jokes, but no one really cared. I think the only way it will become an issue is if the military tries to force acceptance on the matter. If I have to start attending gay rights briefings then I would probably get annoyed by it. Service members will accept it or they won't, but at the end of the day they will have to get over it. It will cause some stir in the media at first, but soon after no one will care bc I don't think it will change things too much. 

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Well, I don't think that it has anything to do with being open about the matter. It was, is and continues to be all about staying in the closet. At most, it is about providing a tiny amount of protection for diesel dykes who would prefer flannel shirt to uniform ones not being forced out of the military because they “seem gay”.

 

Do you know what I would say to a "diesel dyke" if they jumped on a grenade for me, or if a "flamer" gave me CPR if I had a heart attack here at home and saved my life?

THANKS!

Why should I give one rats ass what you do on your own time. And if you risk your life to save mine, thanks is all we can say.

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marshalltenbears wrote: As

marshalltenbears wrote:

 As a vet that will soon be returning to the military all I can say is who gives a shit. If the person can do their job then let them do it. In my squadron alone I believe I served with 3 gays that I knew of. Everyone knew they were gay. Of course, myself included, made jokes, but no one really cared. I think the only way it will become an issue is if the military tries to force acceptance on the matter. If I have to start attending gay rights briefings then I would probably get annoyed by it. Service members will accept it or they won't, but at the end of the day they will have to get over it. It will cause some stir in the media at first, but soon after no one will care bc I don't think it will change things too much. 

You cant make jokes. That would mean that you and your fellow gay soldiers GET IT!

What you have to do is stick to defending MERKA and it's homophobic puritanical history. If you joke with your gay soldiers someone might take that the wrong way. It couldn't be that when you joked with them you were saying, "Isn't it stupid that you cant be open"?

They have to lie about their sexuality and you have to oppress it, because that is the way the GAWED fearing revisionists want it. Jesus was not gay, he did exist and did get magically popped out of a virgin. NEVER forget that is what you and your silent gay partners are fighting for.

It is your duty to purge them from society!

YOU YOU EVIL COMPASSIONATE PERSON WITH A SENSE OF HUMOR!

 

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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Well, I don't think that it has anything to do with being open about the matter. It was, is and continues to be all about staying in the closet. At most, it is about providing a tiny amount of protection for diesel dykes who would prefer flannel shirt to uniform ones not being forced out of the military because they “seem gay”.

 

Totally unrelated to this thread Gene, you know I don't like your economic position. But one of last night's Super Bowl commercials got to me.

It was the one with Oprah and Jay Leno and Letterman. I don't know if you saw it, but it reminds me, at least, that no matter how much we fuss at each other, we really are all the same deep down.

I do like you dude. I don't always agree with you, but I think you have a good head on your shoulders.

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Oops, there was already a

Oops, there was already a thread open for this topic.  Sorry, Brian37, for opening an extra one.  

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/19607


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RatDog wrote:Oops, there was

RatDog wrote:

Oops, there was already a thread open for this topic.  Sorry, Brian37, for opening an extra one.  

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/19607

Why are you saying sorry to me? I don't own this website.

I've done the same thing myself. Someone will start a topic and I will start a new thread not seeing that the topic has already been started. It happens.

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Explaining on this site how

Explaining on this site how homophobia works is getting extremely tiresome.


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:o

smartypants wrote:

Explaining on this site how homophobia works is getting extremely tiresome.

 

I just try to ignore it. Brian is trying to prove his point like a petulant child.

 

If you don't pay attention maybe he will stop.

 

 

 

 

He has been pretty much successful at offending everyone gay on this board. I imagine he won't see the causation to that, since he seems to genuinely not understand what he is doing as he stamps around proclaiming things.

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The only thing it proves to

The only thing it proves to me is that he's a fucking asshole.

I doubt he was trying to prove that but it's a fact.

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Sterculius wrote:The only

Sterculius wrote:

The only thing it proves to me is that he's a fucking asshole.

I doubt he was trying to prove that but it's a fact.

Funny people calling others asshole generally are assholes themselves. But hey everyone has a little asshole in them (wordplay high-five!). Na don't get me wrong i don't think your an asshole well not more than the next guy but then again making a post with the soul intention is to flame.... its well being an asshole. Flame deserved or not.

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Sterculius wrote:The only

Sterculius wrote:

The only thing it proves to me is that he's a fucking asshole.

I doubt he was trying to prove that but it's a fact.

IF you are talking about me,

I am sorry you feel that way. I don't think my detractors are "assholes". I simply think we are both passionate about our positions. Things get heated sometimes. I don't think they or I are taking it personally, nor should we.

I like Clockcat and Tomathy and all the people here who merely think I am throwing a tantrum. I don't know what to say. I think they can, like I try to do, is separate the person from the claim.

I think the people who know me personally would call me lots of things. If you think you have it bad, you should talk to my co-workers during inspection time. I drive them nuts.

On certain subjects on certain claims my detractors merely think I am full of shit. Should I take that personally and call them names because they are blunt with me?

I think my detractors are fair to me and merely being honest with what they think is right. Should I expect them to lie to me and ask them to not hurt my feelings? My feelings cant be hurt because I am not taking what they say personally.

WE are both trying to get at the truth and holding back at every turn isn't always the solution. Sometimes the words have to fly so that at a minimum, even if we don't end up agreeing on everything, we can at least understand each other.

I don't sugar coat my views, and I wouldn't expect anything less from those who disagree with me. If you think I am full of shit, say it. I won't hate you or anyone for that. I would go on to ask why, ON ANY GIVEN TOPIC.

I am human, I am not perfect, nor will ever claim to be. I can be obnoxious. I can be stubborn, and of course I can be wrong. That doesn't make me an "asshole" anymore than I think my detractors are "assholes".

Otherwise we'd have to see each other as a completely different species and that's where the demonization starts and where the division starts.

One thing I have tried to stress everywhere I go and post is that life is not black and white and there is tons of sheds of gray.

I think my detractors can at least, no matter how full of shit on a given topic I might be, I can at least give them credit for accepting that human beings can be and are flawed. And not just me and not just here and not just with us, but life in general.

 

 

 

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ClockCat wrote:smartypants

ClockCat wrote:

smartypants wrote:

Explaining on this site how homophobia works is getting extremely tiresome.

 

I just try to ignore it. Brian is trying to prove his point like a petulant child.

 

If you don't pay attention maybe he will stop.

 

 

 

 

He has been pretty much successful at offending everyone gay on this board. I imagine he won't see the causation to that, since he seems to genuinely not understand what he is doing as he stamps around proclaiming things.

I'm just getting this rant out of my system. Have no fear. I'll be taking my Prozac soon.

 

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Brian37

 

 

 

               We make allowences for you because you root for the Washington NFL team. Don't worry so much.  I personally think of you has a complete and utter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 edit; unabletocompletemdictation

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Jeffrick

Jeffrick wrote:

 

 

 

               We make allowences for you because you root for the Washington NFL team. Don't worry so much.  I personally think of you has a complete and utter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 edit; unabletocompletemdictation

To quote Sam Kennison "SAY IT, SAY IT!"

(Note to self: look out for rotten tomatoes and duck)

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 I think this policy

 I think this policy change......if it happens......is a major step in the right direction for the Military. I am in a critically manned career field that has a high (70%) washout rate. I went through training with a girl that was not only the typical 'good troop', but excelled at her job. Our CO found out through her facebook page that she was a lesbian and went to war against her. Just so happens her dad had a heart attack and brother kills himself in the same month. She was days away from completion of her training when she had to take leave for all of this. When she returned and struggled to get back on track (who can blame her), the CO forced her washout paperwork and sent her to work in a bullshit job for the rest of her tenure in the Air Force. Everyone knew why. Not because she was under-performing ( for the week and a half after she returned), but for being gay. Was like a damn lynch mob. Everyone in the higher ups turned against her. Keep in mind this girl won awards for leadership, volunteering, the whole nine yards. She was a model Airman when this happened. 

 

This policy is taking away many of the good people and leaving us to fight 2 wars with a lot of the scrap and garbage. Wonder why so many vets are bugging out? 

 

 


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I wasn't a combat troop, but

I wasn't a combat troop, but I was a USAF firefighter.  I didn't -- and don't -- give a damn who's pulling my ass out of trouble, and I can't imagine any GI in deep kimche caring one way or the other.  The policy of DADT is merely another tool by which mainstream society reminds one of its minorities:  "You are not a full citizen."  This policy, in essence, is a raw statement of demographic power by a heterosexual majority.  IMO, of course.

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Thumpety wrote:I wasn't a

Thumpety wrote:

I wasn't a combat troop, but I was a USAF firefighter.  I didn't -- and don't -- give a damn who's pulling my ass out of trouble, and I can't imagine any GI in deep kimche caring one way or the other.  The policy of DADT is merely another tool by which mainstream society reminds one of its minorities:  "You are not a full citizen."  This policy, in essence, is a raw statement of demographic power by a heterosexual majority.  IMO, of course.

Agreed. That policy is nothing but a placation of what was, at the time, a "separate but equal" back of the bus attitude.  Our society has grown since then and there will be a day when our society will collectively look back on that and say, "I cant believe people used to do that to others".

I wouldn't care if a Christian found me bleeding from a car accident and saved my life. At that point my response would be "Thank you". I don't think a soldier should give one rats ass who saves their life either.

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Please, spare me the liberal

Please, spare me the liberal brainwashing.

Because society is bigoted, soldiers feel their discipline go down when they are in the same room with the homosexuals. Therefore it follows that it is the homosexual, not the bigot, who is destroying the effectiveness of the military. The only logical solution is that the homosexual hide his/her true identity so the poor bigot wont be forced to judge his/her comrade in arms.

/end Catch-22

"The Chaplain had mastered, in a moment of divine intuition, the handy technique of protective rationalization and he was exhilarated by his discovery. It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. Just no Character."

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I as a bigot, homophobe or

I as a bigot, homophobe or w/e, think the current policy is fine. More time is needed to get over the gay thing. If they really think they can just join the military and shout out that they are gay and everyone will just accept it, they are mistaken. Problems will arise, I know for a fact that I am not the only homophobe in this country, and without bothering to look for a pie chart or graph I'm willing to bet most americans still don't want open gays in the military.

Perhaps in the future this will become a non issue, but for now, it is an issue, and if it is an issue that means there are problems associated with it.

Gays can just keep pushing, and everyone will eventually accept it. However I see some of them pushing it too hard, and when you push something and try to ram it down everyones throat they tend to get pissed off about it.

Just be patient and it will happen. The same can be said for atheists, our time will come (lol). It is just going to take some time for people to get over the whole evil fairy tale.

"At a very young age, everyone is taught that their nation is better than their neighbors. Their religion is better than other religions. Their local sports team is better than any other team. And then we wonder why children are racist too.

In fact, everyone is a bigot whether it is against race, sports, religion, politics, education, social class, or the million or so other ways people differentiate between themselves. Furthermore, the level of bigotry varies greatly for each and every person for each differentiation. However, not everyone is willing to admit it.

The truth is that everyone is a bigot. Everyone is racist.

Aligning with a group, whatever that group may be, is a natural tendency for everyone. At a very early age, children naturally try to "fit in" into preferred groups. People naturally relate to other people who are similar and do not relate to people who are dissimilar. This comparison is the driving force for all bigotry, since most people intuitively believe that their group is better. Unfortunately, intuition is often wrong.

This is important to understand, because understanding this natural propensity of grouping ourselves is the first step in accepting others being different. And only through accepting differences can bigotry and racism end."

 

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robj101 wrote:I as a bigot,

robj101 wrote:

I as a bigot, homophobe or w/e, think the current policy is fine. More time is needed to get over the gay thing. If they really think they can just join the military and shout out that they are gay and everyone will just accept it, they are mistaken. Problems will arise, I know for a fact that I am not the only homophobe in this country, and without bothering to look for a pie chart or graph I'm willing to bet most americans still don't want open gays in the military.

Don't know.  One of my sons is in the Air Force in Korea.  He says the gay ones are easy to pick out and you always know who is who.  Doesn't bother him.  Can't see how it would bother me, either.

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As an aside, just recently a

As an aside, just recently a co-worker's husband and his brother's came to work to visit her. One of his brothers is gay. Mind you, this husband(of my co-worker) is a "manly man", and he and I have an ongoing joke about how he could "squash me like a bug" where I pretend to be a wimp and back off.

In any case the reality is that this guy is the nicest guy in the world. AND the entire time I didn't know, until that day that he even had brothers, 3 in fact. In any case when I found out, I talked to him later and asked him how the family took it when one of  his brothers came out. None of them thought it was a big deal, and quite frankly all of them knew even before.

In any case he, meaning the husband, told me about the first time he used the "f" word in front of his gay brother, went "ooops" and his brother laughed and didn't take it seriously.

WHY did I tell this story? Because IT SHOWS that times are changing. This husband is maybe 5 years younger than me at most, so he is within my generation. His family certainly the parents are from an older generation and STILL rightfully willing to accept this family member as gay. The children and parents all think this brother is a great guy and speak highly of him.

Our military will eventually catch up with the times. Change doesn't happen over night. There was a time when this brother, even if the family members accepted him, would have to stay quiet everywhere else. Pockets of bigotry still exist, but considering the state I live in and the mood of the collective country on this issue, things are improving.

Gays will get there.

 

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robj101 wrote: I as a bigot,

robj101 wrote:

I as a bigot, homophobe or w/e, think the current policy is fine. More time is needed to get over the gay thing. If they really think they can just join the military and shout out that they are gay and everyone will just accept it, they are mistaken. Problems will arise, I know for a fact that I am not the only homophobe in this country, and without bothering to look for a pie chart or graph I'm willing to bet most americans still don't want open gays in the military.

Perhaps in the future this will become a non issue, but for now, it is an issue, and if it is an issue that means there are problems associated with it.

Gays can just keep pushing, and everyone will eventually accept it. However I see some of them pushing it too hard, and when you push something and try to ram it down everyones throat they tend to get pissed off about it.

Just be patient and it will happen. The same can be said for atheists, our time will come (lol). It is just going to take some time for people to get over the whole evil fairy tale.

"At a very young age, everyone is taught that their nation is better than their neighbors. Their religion is better than other religions. Their local sports team is better than any other team. And then we wonder why children are racist too.

In fact, everyone is a bigot whether it is against race, sports, religion, politics, education, social class, or the million or so other ways people differentiate between themselves. Furthermore, the level of bigotry varies greatly for each and every person for each differentiation. However, not everyone is willing to admit it.

The truth is that everyone is a bigot. Everyone is racist.

Aligning with a group, whatever that group may be, is a natural tendency for everyone. At a very early age, children naturally try to "fit in" into preferred groups. People naturally relate to other people who are similar and do not relate to people who are dissimilar. This comparison is the driving force for all bigotry, since most people intuitively believe that their group is better. Unfortunately, intuition is often wrong.

This is important to understand, because understanding this natural propensity of grouping ourselves is the first step in accepting others being different. And only through accepting differences can bigotry and racism end."

 

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


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It took about 10 seconds to

It took about 10 seconds to recognize the girls voice in that song.

 


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god bless avenue Q

god bless avenue Q