Is there anyway to stop Islam?

Dmasterman
atheist
Posts: 58
Joined: 2010-01-01
User is offlineOffline
Is there anyway to stop Islam?

First off, Hi everyone, I'm new here to the forums, so if this doesn't belong in General, forgive me.

 

Anyway to the point:

Although I dislike and don't agree with any religion, there is one particular group who I find to be the most concerning. Muslims.

 

Why? Well like the other religions, they do babble crazy things.. But unlike a lot of them, they tend to act on these beliefs to the extreme. In fact, it's hard to say if there is an "Extremist" Sect when it's almost the majority. Sure, there are rational and maybe moderate Muslims who don't follow the Qu'ran word for word, but I believe it was a once well known youtube atheist "CapnOAwesome" who said that these moderate Muslims are actually the minority.

These people are so faithful to their beliefs, they are willing to kill and die for their belief without a second thought. They are pretty much the modern "Spanish Inquisition". They are willing to kill anyone who opposes their system of belief and life. They target religion, ethnic groups, politics, economical status, gender, sexual orientation, ways of life, etc etc. In other words, if you don't follow what they do, you're in the way of their crosshair.

 

Now aside from them proving themselves to be faithful to their religion by killing, they are also one of the fastest growing religions in the World. From what I heard (though this is probably not a fact) "For every one Muslim who leaves his faith or dies, fifty more will take his/her place". Can you actually imagine a World where there are even MORE irrational people who are willing to die and kill for their belief? All this for the religion of "peace"? (Ironic I know).

Also, unlike many other religions, who deny being crazy or irrational, I've actually seen Muslims who ADMIT to it. Sure, there will be those who deny Islam is evil (you may remember this from watching Bill Maher's Religilous, as they denied just about everything that they have done), but I've actually seen youtube videos of Muslims putting up videos that support "Jihad" and the "Mujahideen". Supporters will openly admit in comments that they are all for Killing "infidels" westerners, homosexuals, so the World can be a better place. And they are winning because of the various US, Canadian, British (and any other Country's) troops who are fighting against them. They admit, that the killings are a good thing. So these people not only openly admit they're crazy, but they admit they are acting on them.

 

BUT, I'm sure a lot of you already know this. So the question is: How do we stop this religion? It's growing like a plague, and I doubt I'd ever want to see them grow to an extent where their control and influence, can infringe on your/my freedoms and beliefs.

Do we "Kill them with kindness" ? Personally, I think this is just throwing them a bone.

What about Educating them? From what it seems, attempting to educate them is like talking to a brick wall. Sure you might get one out of a hundred to be open minded enough to listen, but even if you can provide fact against their claims, they will merely call you an "Idiot" or hope for your death.

Should Soldiers in the Middle East continue to fight? Violence and killing is bad. But with that war going on, surely its thinning them out somewhat. But can this really work against people who have once said "Don't pull out of Iraq, so we can kill more of your kind" ?


I fear them for their violence, and their determination to literally silence rationality with weapons. So if you have any thoughts, please share.

Thanks!


smartypants
Superfan
smartypants's picture
Posts: 597
Joined: 2009-03-20
User is offlineOffline
Seriously? Until I can walk

Seriously? Until I can walk around a trailer park in backwoods Alabama and not be LITERALLY brutally murdered for my sexual orientation, I don't care to listen to how over-the-top HORRIBLE Islam is. We have our own fish to fry right here in our own backyards. 

Having spoken to a number of people in Muslim countries, yes, many of them are deluded, but others not radically so. I've also spoken to many who are very much on the fence, but cultural pressures make it so that they can't safely admit to it without being ostracized or much worse. Not to say that the social pressures aren't their own unique problem, of course. But the reality, in my experience, is that it doesn't have as strong a foothold in the metropolitan areas as one might think, at least not in terms of what they might be willing to admit to a sinful westerner like myself.


The Doomed Soul
atheist
The Doomed Soul's picture
Posts: 2148
Joined: 2007-08-31
User is offlineOffline
To answer the titles

To answer the titles question...

Yes, its called an "Exterminatus" ... anything less, and you risk Islam spreading to other planets

 

 

 

 

What Would Kharn Do?


Jormungander
atheistScience Freak
Jormungander's picture
Posts: 938
Joined: 2008-07-15
User is offlineOffline
I have found an interesting

I have found an interesting site that shows how to deal with an irrational society that claims that the destruction of your way of life is one of their highest priorities:

How to appease Islamic Law advocates and protect Western liberalized governments from their influence.

 

But on a serious note:

Immigration control. If they don't have large voting blocs, then they can't alter Western governments directly. This is basically abandoning 1/3 the world to their oppressive influence, but it is protecting us. That's the best we can do. Stop ourselves from backsliding to their level should be our goal. We aren't going to be able to reason with them or make them our pals. Abandon them to their third world ignorance and hope that if economic conditions improve for them then they will settle down. Most Western nations have their shit together when it comes to this plan. The Netherlands and Denmark don't though. They are paying the price for letting anti-secular government/pro-Islamic law immigrants in en masse.

I made a lengthy post on this topic a few days back:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18881#comment-278409

Of course, that post was made in an anti-immigration control thread. But, at least some of us see the wisdom in limiting the number of immigrants that come from countries that are hostile to our way of life.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


Atheistextremist
atheist
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5134
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
This is sexist of me to observe

 

But given the smartest, hardest working and most empathetic 50 per cent of the islamic population is stuck in the house doing the dishes I can't imagine they're going to be a real threat - which is not to say they're not capable of doing us topical damage.

I have to admit to really loathing islam in a reprehensible way but at the same time I think not embracing muslims in our countries is going to be sillier still. In Oz in the suburbs muslims live the unemployment rate is 50 per cent while the unemployment rate across the country is 6.5 per cent.

Paris, anyone?

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Dmasterman
atheist
Posts: 58
Joined: 2010-01-01
User is offlineOffline
smartypants wrote:Seriously?

smartypants wrote:

Seriously? Until I can walk around a trailer park in backwoods Alabama and not be LITERALLY brutally murdered for my sexual orientation, I don't care to listen to how over-the-top HORRIBLE Islam is. We have our own fish to fry right here in our own backyards. 

 

I think we all know how over the top horrible they are, but they are spreading like wildfire. They're the largest religion in the World and still growing. It won't be long before these fish start pouring into our own lands and actually cause problems. Like Jormungander said, if they start getting in they WILL start imposing their horrible lifestyle and laws onto us.

So I was trying to find out how to stop it at the source, before we got even more fish to start frying.


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Posts: 5492
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
http://findarticles.com/p/art

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3724/is_20080126/ai_n21215393/?tag=content;col1

 

Quote:

As for what's to be done, Sageman argues that we should forget ideological and religious arguments, stop glamorising terrorists by talking of war, treat them as the common criminals they think they aren't, encourage more media coverage of the many Muslims who condemn terrorism, recruit more police from ethnic communities, act positively against discrimination and exclusion, make young men work rather than draw the dole, ensure due process and impartial justice, oppose all atrocities including those committed by allies -- and get out of Iraq.

 

 

 

 


Marquis
atheist
Marquis's picture
Posts: 776
Joined: 2009-12-23
User is offlineOffline
Up for a thought

Up for a thought experiment?

Serve the same uneducated diatribe just like it is, only exchange the word "Muslim" for the word "Jew". Then try "negro".

If you want to know what has made them so pissed off, read a little history.

(Those parts that began with WW1 - and the fall of the Ottoman empire.)

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)

http://www.kinkspace.com


Dmasterman
atheist
Posts: 58
Joined: 2010-01-01
User is offlineOffline
Marquis wrote:Up for a

Marquis wrote:

Up for a thought experiment?

Serve the same uneducated diatribe just like it is, only exchange the word "Muslim" for the word "Jew". Then try "negro".

If you want to know what has made them so pissed off, read a little history.

(Those parts that began with WW1 - and the fall of the Ottoman empire.)

 

You don't seem to understand this clearly. This isn't a race issue, so replacing it with "Negro" wouldn't work. Why? Because people can CHOOSE their faiths, they aren't born with it.

So them being "pissed off" is what you believe to be your logical justice to their killings? If so, that is really screwed up thinking.


Marquis
atheist
Marquis's picture
Posts: 776
Joined: 2009-12-23
User is offlineOffline
Dmasterman wrote:You don't

Dmasterman wrote:

You don't seem to understand this clearly.

 

Au contraire, monsieur. I think I have a fairly good understanding of how "the Muslim problem" came to be.

What is less clear to me, however, is how the problem can be solved.

At first glance, exacerbating cultural stereotypes seems to be a dead end. But I could be wrong.

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)

http://www.kinkspace.com


smartypants
Superfan
smartypants's picture
Posts: 597
Joined: 2009-03-20
User is offlineOffline
Dmasterman wrote:smartypants

Dmasterman wrote:

smartypants wrote:

Seriously? Until I can walk around a trailer park in backwoods Alabama and not be LITERALLY brutally murdered for my sexual orientation, I don't care to listen to how over-the-top HORRIBLE Islam is. We have our own fish to fry right here in our own backyards. 

 

I think we all know how over the top horrible they are, but they are spreading like wildfire. They're the largest religion in the World and still growing. It won't be long before these fish start pouring into our own lands and actually cause problems. Like Jormungander said, if they start getting in they WILL start imposing their horrible lifestyle and laws onto us.

So I was trying to find out how to stop it at the source, before we got even more fish to start frying.

Before you start deciding who should be allowed to call themselves Americans or not based on your bias, I suggest you converse with one of the very few remaining Native Americans who white Europeans didn't slaughter while stealing all their land.


The Doomed Soul
atheist
The Doomed Soul's picture
Posts: 2148
Joined: 2007-08-31
User is offlineOffline
smartypants wrote:Before you

smartypants wrote:

Before you start deciding who should be allowed to call themselves Americans or not based on your bias, I suggest you converse with one of the very few remaining Native Americans who white Europeans didn't slaughter while stealing all their land.

To the victor goes the spoils, all your rights and claims are forfeit as the loser.

Which is probably why the little xenophobe is so worried in the first place

What Would Kharn Do?


smartypants
Superfan
smartypants's picture
Posts: 597
Joined: 2009-03-20
User is offlineOffline
The Doomed Soul

The Doomed Soul wrote:

smartypants wrote:

Before you start deciding who should be allowed to call themselves Americans or not based on your bias, I suggest you converse with one of the very few remaining Native Americans who white Europeans didn't slaughter while stealing all their land.

To the victor goes the spoils, all your rights and claims are forfeit as the loser.

Which is probably why the little xenophobe is so worried in the first place

"Praise Allah....NOW!"


Jormungander
atheistScience Freak
Jormungander's picture
Posts: 938
Joined: 2008-07-15
User is offlineOffline
When I visited my family

When I visited my family over Christmas, my dad and I talked about immigration for a while. He asked me something along the lines of "What should the Native Americans have done to the first European settlers?" and my answer was "Wiped them all out." He agreed with me. Of course, I'm glad that the Natives were friendly at first and only became hostile after it was too late to remove the rapidly growing colonies. But from a Native American perspective, they should have wiped the first small groups of settlers out. Truly uncontrolled immigration seems like a bad idea. Let's just keep reasonable limits on the number of immigrants and we'll be fine.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


Abu Lahab
Superfan
Abu Lahab's picture
Posts: 628
Joined: 2008-02-29
User is offlineOffline
Marquis wrote:I think I have

Marquis wrote:

I think I have a fairly good understanding of how "the Muslim problem" came to be.

 

This should be good for a laugh. Pray tell, wise one....how is the moslem issue the fault of the West?

 

People choose their religion, I have yet to meet someone who chose their race. Your example was inept.

<popcorn>

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


The Doomed Soul
atheist
The Doomed Soul's picture
Posts: 2148
Joined: 2007-08-31
User is offlineOffline
smartypants wrote:"Praise

smartypants wrote:

"Praise Allah....NOW!"

 

All i have to do is say No, and kill you...

No, wait... on second thought...

 

I kill you, THEN say No

Dont wanna take any chances!

What Would Kharn Do?


Marquis
atheist
Marquis's picture
Posts: 776
Joined: 2009-12-23
User is offlineOffline
Abu Lahab wrote:Pray tell,

Abu Lahab wrote:
Pray tell, wise one....how is the moslem issue the fault of the West?

 

This will give you the basics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr7oBJIWyBc

 

This is important too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8hE6WN9xRU

 

And then this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asTjQY98Bec

 

And that's quite enough for now.

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)

http://www.kinkspace.com


Abu Lahab
Superfan
Abu Lahab's picture
Posts: 628
Joined: 2008-02-29
User is offlineOffline
...................

Marquis wrote:

This will give you the basics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr7oBJIWyBc

 

This is important too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8hE6WN9xRU

 

And then this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asTjQY98Bec

 

And that's quite enough for now.

To which I counter:

Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."  There is a good case to be made that the textual context of this particular passage is defensive war, even if the historical context was not.  However, there are also two worrisome pieces to these verse.  The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution" (a qualification that is ambiguous at best).  The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah."  The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring.

 

Qur'an (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

 

Qur'an (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."  Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time.  From the Hadith, we know that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding caravans with this verse.

 

Qur'an (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

 

Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".  This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

 

Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."  The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter.  These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah.  Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

 

Qur'an (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

 

Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

 

 

 

Qur'an (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" 

 

This passage not only criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, but it also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Qur'an, but rather a spiritual struggle.  Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption.  (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad).

 

Qur'an (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."  Pursuing an injured and retreating enemy is not an act of self-defense.

 

Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

 

Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"  No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

 

Qur'an (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

 

Qur'an (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"  From the historical context we know that the "persecution" spoken of here was simply the refusal by the Meccans to allow Muhammad to enter their city and perform the Haj.  Other Muslims were able to travel there, just not as an armed group, since Muhammad declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction.  The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did).  Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah."

 

Qur'an (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

 

Qur'an (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape.  Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

 

Qur'an (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."  According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam.  Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religions Five Pillars.

 

Qur'an (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

 

Qur'an (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."  The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.

 

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."  "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews.  This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years.  Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

 

Qur'an (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

 

Qur'an (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."  This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

 

Qur'an (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew."  See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them"  This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

 

Qur'an (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."  Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter.  It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

 

Qur'an (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

 

Qur'an (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

 

Qur'an (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

 

Qur'an (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

 

Qur'an (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur'an)."   "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context.  It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

 

Qur'an (47:4) - "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"

 

Qur'an (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand&quotEye-wink for Allah is with you,"

 

Qur'an (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."  Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.'  Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?

 

Qur'an (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"  Islam is not about treating everyone equally.  There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.

 

Qur'an (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"  Religion of Peace, indeed!

 

Qur'an (61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity."  This verse was given in battle.  It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

 

Qur'an (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."  The root word of "Jihad" is used again here.  The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

From the Hadith:

 

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

 

Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."  In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy.  This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.

 

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'

 

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

 

Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

 

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

 

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah

 

Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."

 

Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

 

Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite.'"

 

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers.  His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

 

Tabari 7:97  The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."   

Tabari 9:69  "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"  The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

 

Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

 

 

It is clear to anyone with a brain that islam is not here to coexist or integrate. It's a supremacist ideology that should be expunged from existence.

There isn't a religion even close to the insidious nature of  islam and I challenge anyone to produce doctrine that teaches lying to non-believers as a staple from any other religion than islam.

 

 

 

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


Marquis
atheist
Marquis's picture
Posts: 776
Joined: 2009-12-23
User is offlineOffline
Abu Lahab wrote:It is clear

Abu Lahab wrote:

It is clear to anyone with a brain that islam is not here to coexist or integrate. It's a supremacist ideology that should be expunged from existence

 

Okie dokie.

You seem to have it all under control there, Buster.

I'm sure you'll come up with something really smart next.

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)

http://www.kinkspace.com


Dmasterman
atheist
Posts: 58
Joined: 2010-01-01
User is offlineOffline
The Doomed Soul

The Doomed Soul wrote:

smartypants wrote:

Before you start deciding who should be allowed to call themselves Americans or not based on your bias, I suggest you converse with one of the very few remaining Native Americans who white Europeans didn't slaughter while stealing all their land.

To the victor goes the spoils, all your rights and claims are forfeit as the loser.

Which is probably why the little xenophobe is so worried in the first place

 

Xenophobe? There's a difference between disliking someone's foreign origin and their religion. Muslims come in all races these days.


Marquis
atheist
Marquis's picture
Posts: 776
Joined: 2009-12-23
User is offlineOffline
Dmasterman wrote:There's a

Dmasterman wrote:

There's a difference between disliking someone's foreign origin and their religion.

 

Like I said; do not let me stand between you guys and the full realisation of the glory of your intelligence.

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)

http://www.kinkspace.com


The Doomed Soul
atheist
The Doomed Soul's picture
Posts: 2148
Joined: 2007-08-31
User is offlineOffline
Dmasterman wrote:Xenophobe?

Dmasterman wrote:

Xenophobe? There's a difference between disliking someone's foreign origin and their religion. Muslims come in all races these days.

 

Xenophobe;

a person who fears or hates foreigners, strange customs, etc

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/xenophobe

 

Your still technically a xenophobe, not that theres anything innately wrong with it...

Its like paranoia! but only subject to people of different cultures

What Would Kharn Do?


Vastet
atheistBloggerSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13234
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Moslems will be dealt with

Moslems will be dealt with the same way the equally violent and xenophobic christians were. The vicious will be destroyed, the peaceful will be coerced, and in a couple hundred years they'll be where christians are today.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Atheistextremist
atheist
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5134
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
I agree with Vast

Vastet wrote:
Moslems will be dealt with the same way the equally violent and xenophobic christians were. The vicious will be destroyed, the peaceful will be coerced, and in a couple hundred years they'll be where christians are today.

This is what will happen. Islam is a pretty malleable faith. That doesn't mean there won't be further terrorist attacks though, because there definitely will be. And the trouble with these is that they create serious divisions between muslims and non-muslims and delay assimilation. Ideally aliens will be discovered or some scientific discovery will take place that undermines religious faith, pushing humans to a greater emotional dependence on each other, instead of on magic teddy bears.

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Dmasterman
atheist
Posts: 58
Joined: 2010-01-01
User is offlineOffline
The Doomed Soul

The Doomed Soul wrote:

Dmasterman wrote:

Xenophobe? There's a difference between disliking someone's foreign origin and their religion. Muslims come in all races these days.

 

Xenophobe;

a person who fears or hates foreigners, strange customs, etc

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/xenophobe

 

Your still technically a xenophobe, not that theres anything innately wrong with it...

 

Its like paranoia! but only subject to people of different cultures 

 

It's main definition is Foreigners. Religion is not one of them.

Because there are Muslims in my country, and they're not all of Arabic descent. Hell some were even born here.

 

And xenophobia is "Fear of"  It is not fear I have, it's concern. Big difference. Is it wrong for one to be concerned about the largest and fastest growing religion?

Maybe to you no, but to me, yes. Especially if it was one that is brave enough to fight "The world's strongest military"

 

 


Dmasterman
atheist
Posts: 58
Joined: 2010-01-01
User is offlineOffline
Marquis wrote:Dmasterman

Marquis wrote:

Dmasterman wrote:

There's a difference between disliking someone's foreign origin and their religion.

 

Like I said; do not let me stand between you guys and the full realisation of the glory of your intelligence.

 

Can you prove that anything I have said about them is wrong? Are they not killing people? Were they not responsible for 9/11? Are they not imposing their laws on other Countries such as Denmark or the Netherlands? Or anything that Abu quoted from the Qu'Ran is incorrect?

I mean if you want to argue something, back it up with something. The only thing you presented is that because something bad happened to them, it justifies the killings they're doing today.


The Doomed Soul
atheist
The Doomed Soul's picture
Posts: 2148
Joined: 2007-08-31
User is offlineOffline
Dmasterman wrote:It's main

Dmasterman wrote:

It's main definition is Foreigners. Religion is not one of them.

Its a Foreign Religion... and makes up one hell of a majority of the standard Islamic Culture (also Foreign)

The refference works, i wouldnt have made it otherwise >.>

 



 

 

Dmasterman wrote:

And xenophobia is "Fear of"  It is not fear I have, it's concern. Big difference. Is it wrong for one to be concerned about the largest and fastest growing religion?

Maybe to you no, but to me, yes. Especially if it was one that is brave enough to fight "The world's strongest military"

Smells like fear to me! Again, not that its a bad thing...

What Would Kharn Do?


Dmasterman
atheist
Posts: 58
Joined: 2010-01-01
User is offlineOffline
The Doomed Soul

The Doomed Soul wrote:

Dmasterman wrote:

It's main definition is Foreigners. Religion is not one of them.

Its a Foreign Religion... and makes up one hell of a majority of the standard Islamic Culture (also Foreign)

The refference works, i wouldnt have made it otherwise >.>



 

 

Dmasterman wrote:

And xenophobia is "Fear of"  It is not fear I have, it's concern. Big difference. Is it wrong for one to be concerned about the largest and fastest growing religion?

Maybe to you no, but to me, yes. Especially if it was one that is brave enough to fight "The world's strongest military"

islam is fear to me! Again, not that its a bad thing...

 

If you use that definition then you also are xenophobe. Because your definition of xenophobe is fear of anything foreign. So I'd take it you'd have a fear of foreign objects in you, or foreign diseases. But that's quite ridiculous. And from other descriptions it mainly points out "Foreign People"

 

http://m-w.com/dictionary/xenophobe

Well according to your logic that would mean Richard Dawkins too is a xenophobe for his concern of Religion and all it's problems? Or anonymous's project chanology to protest against CO$ is also out of fear. Ari Shaffir must also be fearful, because he goes around dissing Muslims at their own Mosques. So you probably have a lot of atheists on that list.

 

But this is digressing from the main topic. You don't have any ideas to stop a growing problem, then there's no point in conversing with you about this.


Dmasterman
atheist
Posts: 58
Joined: 2010-01-01
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3724/is_20080126/ai_n21215393/?tag=content;col1

 

Quote:

As for what's to be done, Sageman argues that we should forget ideological and religious arguments, stop glamorising terrorists by talking of war, treat them as the common criminals they think they aren't, encourage more media coverage of the many Muslims who condemn terrorism, recruit more police from ethnic communities, act positively against discrimination and exclusion, make young men work rather than draw the dole, ensure due process and impartial justice, oppose all atrocities including those committed by allies -- and get out of Iraq.

 

 

 

 

So you think Sageman's idea of treating fanatic muslims like criminals will cause them to stop? Maybe their selves being glorified is their strenght.


The Doomed Soul
atheist
The Doomed Soul's picture
Posts: 2148
Joined: 2007-08-31
User is offlineOffline
Dmasterman wrote:If you use

Dmasterman wrote:

If you use that definition then you also are xenophobe. Because your definition of xenophobe is fear of anything foreign. So I'd take it you'd have a fear of foreign objects in you, or foreign diseases. But that's quite ridiculous. And from other descriptions it mainly points out "Foreign People"

Well according to your logic that would mean Richard Dawkins too is a xenophobe for his concern of Religion and all it's problems? Or anonymous's project chanology to protest against CO$ is also out of fear. Ari Shaffir must also be fearful, because he goes around dissing Muslims at their own Mosques. So you probably have a lot of atheists on that list.

... again, nothing wrong with a lil good ole Xenophobia!

 

Dmasterman wrote:

But this is digressing from the main topic. You don't have any ideas to stop a growing problem, then there's no point in conversing with you about this.

How is genocide NOT an idea to stop a growing problem? Its worked wonderfully in the past! (talking pre-nazi's)

... or wait, would it be called religocide? Ah hell with it, MASS FUCKING MURDER!

 

Its an idea, proven effective in history, and i make the claim that it will work in this instance as well!

What Would Kharn Do?


Abu Lahab
Superfan
Abu Lahab's picture
Posts: 628
Joined: 2008-02-29
User is offlineOffline
Marquis wrote:Okie dokie.You

Marquis wrote:

Okie dokie.

You seem to have it all under control there, Buster.

I'm sure you'll come up with something really smart next.

Addresss the points I made, refute anything written in quran that I posted or just continue to look like an idiot.

 

Your call.

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


Abu Lahab
Superfan
Abu Lahab's picture
Posts: 628
Joined: 2008-02-29
User is offlineOffline
Dmasterman wrote:And

Dmasterman wrote:

And xenophobia is "Fear of"  It is not fear I have, it's concern. Big difference. Is it wrong for one to be concerned about the largest and fastest growing religion?

 

I prefer the term 'islamomisia' from the Greek 'misia' which means hatred or disgust.

 

There is nothing about islam that I fear and I won't lend any self-aggrandizing terms to the existence of such a pathetic cult.

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


Marquis
atheist
Marquis's picture
Posts: 776
Joined: 2009-12-23
User is offlineOffline
Abu Lahab wrote:Your

Abu Lahab wrote:

Your call.

 

I'll just go for the "idiot" alternative, thank you very much.

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)

http://www.kinkspace.com


JesusNEVERexisted
Superfan
JesusNEVERexisted's picture
Posts: 725
Joined: 2010-01-03
User is offlineOffline
Just make everyone realize

Just make everyone realize that the crazy Palestinian trio of religions are the most insane piles of crap that ever existed and are NOT supported by the historical evidence.  Moses and Jesus are both mythical since there are ZERO eyewitnesses or artifacts showing they were even there! None of the so called supernatural acts in Islam actually happened since there are NO eyewitness accounts of historical corroboration of any of it.

The Palestinian/Abrahamic mythologies are no different that any of the other mythologies on the planet.  Just common sense will tell you that.

 

 

 

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Posts: 5492
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
Dmasterman wrote: So you

Dmasterman wrote:

 

So you think Sageman's idea of treating fanatic muslims like criminals will cause them to stop? Maybe their selves being glorified is their strenght.

 

Well, not JUST that, but yeah I agree with what he said.

 

 

 


JesusNEVERexisted
Superfan
JesusNEVERexisted's picture
Posts: 725
Joined: 2010-01-03
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3724/is_20080126/ai_n21215393/?tag=content;col1

 

Quote:

As for what's to be done, Sageman argues that we should forget ideological and religious arguments, stop glamorising terrorists by talking of war, treat them as the common criminals they think they aren't, encourage more media coverage of the many Muslims who condemn terrorism, recruit more police from ethnic communities, act positively against discrimination and exclusion, make young men work rather than draw the dole, ensure due process and impartial justice, oppose all atrocities including those committed by allies -- and get out of Iraq.

 

Does he mean we should arrest Muslims in society who speak out against the west and/or freedom? I'm all for that but that would be hard to do in free western countries.

I bet Europe wishes they could just deport them all back or go back in time and just REFUSE them entry!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


JesusNEVERexisted
Superfan
JesusNEVERexisted's picture
Posts: 725
Joined: 2010-01-03
User is offlineOffline
Dmasterman wrote:Marquis

Dmasterman wrote:

Marquis wrote:

Dmasterman wrote:

There's a difference between disliking someone's foreign origin and their religion.

 

Like I said; do not let me stand between you guys and the full realisation of the glory of your intelligence.

 

Can you prove that anything I have said about them is wrong? Are they not killing people? Were they not responsible for 9/11? Are they not imposing their laws on other Countries such as Denmark or the Netherlands? Or anything that Abu quoted from the Qu'Ran is incorrect?

I mean if you want to argue something, back it up with something. The only thing you presented is that because something bad happened to them, it justifies the killings they're doing today.

HOW are they imposing their laws on Denmark and the Netherlands?? There is OBVIOUSLY no sharia law in those countries.  Unless you mean they are trying to enforce it their own neighborhoods.  If they're doing that they hopefully they'll just wipe themselves out! LOL!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Posts: 5492
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:Does

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Does he mean we should arrest Muslims in society who speak out against the west and/or freedom? I'm all for that but that would be hard to do in free western countries.

I bet Europe wishes they could just deport them all back or go back in time and just REFUSE them entry!

 

 

 

No, he's saying to treat the terror suspect arrest just like a murder arrest. As in don't dedicated 6 hours a day to it on CNN or BBC.

 

 

 

 

 


Marquis
atheist
Marquis's picture
Posts: 776
Joined: 2009-12-23
User is offlineOffline
This is all very

This is all very retarded.

People are free to believe and congregate as they like.

They are even free to hate other people and yell obscenities at them at festive occasions!

Who knows (and who the fuck cares) what all the nutters in this world believe in?

I don't have a problem with any of that.

However, if they break the law - say nothing of terrorist acts - they ought to be brought to trial.

You can not insult, indignate or attack another person without repercussion.

We have this social contract we call society and it's basically about how we behave towards eachother.

I will fight for your right to party even if you won't fight for mine.

That's how much of an idiot I am.

 

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)

http://www.kinkspace.com


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4298
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:HOW

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

HOW are they imposing their laws on Denmark and the Netherlands?? There is OBVIOUSLY no sharia law in those countries.  Unless you mean they are trying to enforce it their own neighborhoods.  If they're doing that they hopefully they'll just wipe themselves out! LOL!

i can kind of second that.  i've never been to denmark, but i've been to the netherlands, or at least amsterdam.  i certainly saw no evidence of encroaching sharia there.  i'd be more worried about london, having studied there for a semester and seen whole sections of the city with all the shop and restaurant signs in arabic, than i would amsterdam.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5939
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Marquis wrote:This is all

Marquis wrote:

This is all very retarded.

People are free to believe and congregate as they like.

They are even free to hate other people and yell obscenities at them at festive occasions!

Who knows (and who the fuck cares) what all the nutters in this world believe in?

I don't have a problem with any of that.

However, if they break the law - say nothing of terrorist acts - they ought to be brought to trial.

You can not insult, indignate or attack another person without repercussion.

We have this social contract we call society and it's basically about how we behave towards eachother.

I will fight for your right to party even if you won't fight for mine.

That's how much of an idiot I am.

I think you need to clarify the underlined section - I think that becomes problematic. Do you mean that to be enshrined in law?

"Attack", as in physically assault, etc, is reasonably clear, altho not without problems, as in when does contact of some form become actual assault.

"Insult"? I presume you are specifically addressing insult to the person as distinct from their beliefs, but that is a tricky distinction to maintain in practice. I suspect those rioting Muslims felt those cartoons were aimed at both them and their beliefs, I doubt they would really see the distinction. And if they don't, in what meaningful sense could the law make the distinction for them?

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Marquis
atheist
Marquis's picture
Posts: 776
Joined: 2009-12-23
User is offlineOffline
BobSpence1 wrote:you need to

BobSpence1 wrote:
you need to clarify the underlined section

 

They all refer to personalised ad hominem abuses, in a "scapegoat" manner.

For instance the very common idea of accusing all singular members of a group of being guilty of what one of them did.

I didn't actually even consider your angle, but I see it now that you point at it.

It's a bit of the opposite of what I thought about though.

The rioting muslims were deluded, as in the exact opposite of what I meant, i.e. personalising something generalised.

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)

http://www.kinkspace.com


JesusNEVERexisted
Superfan
JesusNEVERexisted's picture
Posts: 725
Joined: 2010-01-03
User is offlineOffline
iwbiek

iwbiek wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

HOW are they imposing their laws on Denmark and the Netherlands?? There is OBVIOUSLY no sharia law in those countries.  Unless you mean they are trying to enforce it their own neighborhoods.  If they're doing that they hopefully they'll just wipe themselves out! LOL!

i can kind of second that.  i've never been to denmark, but i've been to the netherlands, or at least amsterdam.  i certainly saw no evidence of encroaching sharia there.  i'd be more worried about london, having studied there for a semester and seen whole sections of the city with all the shop and restaurant signs in arabic, than i would amsterdam.

There are shop and restaurant signs in ARABIC in LONDON??? WTF are they thinking??? There should be zoning regulations where the signs are ONLY in English.  WHY are the British being such wussies and letting foreigners trample all over them like this?? That is why 7/7 happened.

They NEVER should've let in so many Muslims in to begin with!!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


Marquis
atheist
Marquis's picture
Posts: 776
Joined: 2009-12-23
User is offlineOffline
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:WHY

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

WHY are the British being such wussies and letting foreigners trample all over them like this?

 

Probably because "they" did quite a lot of trampling themselves, and now the wave is coming right back at them.

Put it in a historical context and it will all make sense.

 


 

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)

http://www.kinkspace.com


Abu Lahab
Superfan
Abu Lahab's picture
Posts: 628
Joined: 2008-02-29
User is offlineOffline
Marquis

Marquis wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

WHY are the British being such wussies and letting foreigners trample all over them like this?

 

Probably because "they" did quite a lot of trampling themselves, and now the wave is coming right back at them.

Marquis, your problem is that you're not going back far enough. The threat from islam didn't start after 9/11 as you may have assumed.

Marquis wrote:

Put it in a historical context and it will all make sense.

 

Want to go back 1400 years?

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5939
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Interesting points, Abu. I

Interesting points, Abu

I have had the general impression, which I won't pretend is the result of careful study, that the Muslims weren't such a direct threat to 'the West' until the Crusades stirred them up.

I'd be interested in your comments.

EDIT: I certainly agree with the idea that Islam is currently a serious threat, although there are times in the past where it seems to have been more benign than medieval Christianity.

I have got some nice photos from the tops of a couple of minarets in Uzbekistan...

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Marquis
atheist
Marquis's picture
Posts: 776
Joined: 2009-12-23
User is offlineOffline
BobSpence1 wrote:until the

BobSpence1 wrote:
until the Crusades

 

There was of course the campaigns into what is today Spain and southern France, until the "moor" advancements was stopped by Charles Martel at Poitiers in 730 or thereabouts (?) - which also incidentally paved the way for his son Pippin II to usurp the Merovingian throne (after the murder of Dagobert II) and cause quite a lot of conspiracy theories to happen thereafter. A couple of generations down follows Charlemagne, of course...

Interestingly, Spain got reunited into the kingdom of Castilla Y Aragon in 1492, under king Ferdinand and queen Isabella, who also founded the world tour of Colombus, that was to have such ill fated consequences. (He originally only wanted to look for a cheaper route to the "oriental" markets than the one which had to pay taxes to both the Mammelooks of Egypt and the Medicis of Venice at the time).

Anyway, in order to celebrate the expulsion of the Moors from "al-andalus" in 1492, the house of Castilla Y Aragon issued a standard, a banner, or a flag, which had a depiction of both the pillars of Atlas (or Gibraltar and Melilla, such as it is today), with a laurel chain circling around it like a snake. This symbol has later turned into the dollar symbol - $ - (only with two I's crossing the S). They needed a currency... so they adapted the dolares that were in use around these times, originally named after the German Johannisthal (the thaler), which was later to become the location of "the virus house" which was the code name for he Nazi atom bomb project during WW2.

Oh well. History is interesting once you start looking into it.

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)

http://www.kinkspace.com


Jormungander
atheistScience Freak
Jormungander's picture
Posts: 938
Joined: 2008-07-15
User is offlineOffline
Marquis wrote:Probably

Marquis wrote:

Probably because "they" did quite a lot of trampling themselves, and now the wave is coming right back at them.

Put it in a historical context and it will all make sense.

But the British could choose to stop this by cutting off all Muslim immigration and refusing to accept Islamic cultural practices. They are in a position to stop the trampling, yet they don't. That is the weird part in all this.

When the British were trampling on others, it was by force. It wasn't because the people being trampled were too gutless to do anything about it.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


Marquis
atheist
Marquis's picture
Posts: 776
Joined: 2009-12-23
User is offlineOffline
Jormungander wrote:people

Jormungander wrote:

people being trampled were too gutless

 

Who is going to do what, exactly?

I don't know how much experience you have with extorsion, but most people "don't want any trouble".

Meaning that they will accept quite a lot of misery and abuse before they revolt.

This is why a couple of thousand men can overcome millions. It's happening every day, today.

You just bow down before Big Daddy and maybe everything will be fine, some day...

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)

http://www.kinkspace.com


Abu Lahab
Superfan
Abu Lahab's picture
Posts: 628
Joined: 2008-02-29
User is offlineOffline
Marquis wrote:Jormungander

Marquis wrote:

Jormungander wrote:

people being trampled were too gutless

You just bow down before Big Daddy and maybe everything will be fine, some day...

 

On that, Marquis, we can totally agree. I'd say that Big Daddy has almost everyone in the West lulled through a diet of credit and bad TV.

 

The British (I'm an ex-pat) were a nation of adventurers and expansionists, seemingly driven to explore and plant the falg, abuse the locals and steal their resources.

 

You could argue (as I think you may have earlier) that it's the chickens coming home to roost, but why is it only moslems that make such demands of their host nation? Jamaicans and Indians became British without much shenaningans. The moslems are the ones imposing their belief system on the British.

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


EXC
atheist
EXC's picture
Posts: 4108
Joined: 2008-01-17
User is offlineOffline
No way to stop it because

No way to stop it because their strategy is to out breed other religions and groups. By pumping out more babies and using women as essentially sex/breeding slaves they can accomplish this.

Poverty could stop Islam but they have oil money and the socialists of the world want to make sure all available wealth is transferred from the productive into families with irresponsible breeding. Then they use violence to intimidate anyone that stands in the way. So Europe will be first to fall then the Americas.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen