Why do theists assume that you saying you are an atheist is.....

SapphireMind
SapphireMind's picture
Posts: 73
Joined: 2009-12-20
User is offlineOffline
Why do theists assume that you saying you are an atheist is.....

a request for witness, evangelizing, preaching or conversion? 

One of my pet peeves about it, is the theists saying "well, you just need to witness a good miracle".

To me, it's like telling a lesbian that she just hasn't met the right guy yet.

I've seen things I can't explain directly.  I'm ok with that.  Sometimes weird shit happens.  Just because I don't know or understand how it happened doesn't make a god involved. 

Comments to my blasphemy challenge have been very amusing in the conversion arena. 

I guess the bigger complaint is that if they attack my atheism and lack of belief and I rebound and attack their belief and god, I am being rude and socially unacceptable, while theirs is tolerated by most. 

"Shepherd Book once said to me, 'If you can't do something smart, do something right.'" - Jayne

Personally subverting biological evolution in favor of social evolution every night I go to work!


Fortunate_Son
TheistTroll
Posts: 262
Joined: 2009-12-24
User is offlineOffline
SapphireMind wrote:a request

SapphireMind wrote:

a request for witness, evangelizing, preaching or conversion? 

One of my pet peeves about it, is the theists saying "well, you just need to witness a good miracle".

To me, it's like telling a lesbian that she just hasn't met the right guy yet.

I've seen things I can't explain directly.  I'm ok with that.  Sometimes weird shit happens.  Just because I don't know or understand how it happened doesn't make a god involved. 

Comments to my blasphemy challenge have been very amusing in the conversion arena. 

I guess the bigger complaint is that if they attack my atheism and lack of belief and I rebound and attack their belief and god, I am being rude and socially unacceptable, while theirs is tolerated by most. 

 

Actually, you are off base.

Apologetics is not about trying to convert the unregenerate.  John Calvin said it best that apologetics is about shutting the mouths of the obstreperous.  Only by God's grace will you be saved. 

I actually uphold your right to be an atheist.  But if you attack my faith, then I am going to launch a defense.


latincanuck
atheist
latincanuck's picture
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2007-06-01
User is offlineOffline
I don't think she's off

I don't think she's off base, many times I have had people start talking about god or their faith and how wonderful it is and I simply tell them sorry but I don't believe in god, or that I am an atheist. Which seems to let them think it's alright to try to convert me or save me, happened a few times in the states and has happened with one ex friend of mine now. I don't attack them at all for having faith, I simply tell them that I am an atheists and I don't believe as they do and leave it at that, which I don't see it as an attack on their faith.


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3716
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
Fortunate_Son

Fortunate_Son wrote:
Actually, you are off base.

Apologetics is not about trying to convert the unregenerate.  John Calvin said it best that apologetics is about shutting the mouths of the obstreperous.  Only by God's grace will you be saved. 

Maybe that's not what apologetics is officially intended for, but certainty, people try to convert atheists all the time.  

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5102
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
Right back at you, chum

Fortunate_Son wrote:

SapphireMind wrote:

a request for witness, evangelizing, preaching or conversion? 

One of my pet peeves about it, is the theists saying "well, you just need to witness a good miracle".

To me, it's like telling a lesbian that she just hasn't met the right guy yet.

I've seen things I can't explain directly.  I'm ok with that.  Sometimes weird shit happens.  Just because I don't know or understand how it happened doesn't make a god involved. 

Comments to my blasphemy challenge have been very amusing in the conversion arena. 

I guess the bigger complaint is that if they attack my atheism and lack of belief and I rebound and attack their belief and god, I am being rude and socially unacceptable, while theirs is tolerated by most. 

 

Actually, you are off base.

Apologetics is not about trying to convert the unregenerate.  John Calvin said it best that apologetics is about shutting the mouths of the obstreperous.  Only by God's grace will you be saved. 

I actually uphold your right to be an atheist.  But if you attack my faith, then I am going to launch a defense.

 

And in case it's escaped your weeny brain the core of your doctrine - in fact it's very heart - is the insistence those who don't swallow your faith's tripe are in sin.

Unregenerate... Why don't you kiss my arse, Fortunate_Son, you monstrous tosser.

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Fortunate_Son
TheistTroll
Posts: 262
Joined: 2009-12-24
User is offlineOffline
Atheistextremist wrote:And

Atheistextremist wrote:

And in case it's escaped your weeny brain the core of your doctrine - in fact it's very heart - is the insistence those who don't swallow your faith's tripe are in sin.

Unregenerate... Why don't you kiss my arse, Fortunate_Son, you monstrous tosser



Umm, yeah.  According to the scriptures, anybody who doesn't put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ is going to Hell.

I'm not out condemning anyone.  I'm just telling you what the Bible really says.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10687
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Which is a condemnation.

Which is a condemnation. It's a primitive and foolish one at that. Your spreading the word of the bible is evidence for your support of its claims, including intolerance of non-believers and other faiths. Making you an intolerant prick by association.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


FurryCatHerder
Theist
FurryCatHerder's picture
Posts: 1253
Joined: 2007-06-02
User is offlineOffline
Fortunate_Son

Fortunate_Son wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

And in case it's escaped your weeny brain the core of your doctrine - in fact it's very heart - is the insistence those who don't swallow your faith's tripe are in sin.

Unregenerate... Why don't you kiss my arse, Fortunate_Son, you monstrous tosser



Umm, yeah.  According to the scriptures, anybody who doesn't put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ is going to Hell.

I'm not out condemning anyone.  I'm just telling you what the Bible really says.

And I'm going to tell you that the same book says you're a pagan idolator and going straight to Hell.

(I've been waiting for a Christian to show up -- and now I've got me one!  And on Christmas Day, no less!)

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


FurryCatHerder
Theist
FurryCatHerder's picture
Posts: 1253
Joined: 2007-06-02
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:Which is a

Vastet wrote:
Which is a condemnation. It's a primitive and foolish one at that. Your spreading the word of the bible is evidence for your support of its claims, including intolerance of non-believers and other faiths. Making you an intolerant prick by association.

You start off kinda weak, get better as you go, and finish with a flourish.

Bravo!

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Fortunate_Son
TheistTroll
Posts: 262
Joined: 2009-12-24
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:Which is a

Vastet wrote:
Which is a condemnation. It's a primitive and foolish one at that. Your spreading the word of the bible is evidence for your support of its claims, including intolerance of non-believers and other faiths. Making you an intolerant prick by association.

 

Actually, I'm not intolerant at all.  When did I ever see that we should outlaw Jews from practicing their faith or Muslims from practicing theirs?  If someone wants to be something other than a Christian, then I'm not going to stop them from doing so. 

But they are going to Hell.  This is not me being intolerant.  This is just me relaying the message of the gospel, that Christ is the truth, the way, and the life.


FurryCatHerder
Theist
FurryCatHerder's picture
Posts: 1253
Joined: 2007-06-02
User is offlineOffline
Fortunate_Son

Fortunate_Son wrote:

Actually, I'm not intolerant at all.  When did I ever see that we should outlaw Jews from practicing their faith or Muslims from practicing theirs?  If someone wants to be something other than a Christian, then I'm not going to stop them from doing so. 

But they are going to Hell.  This is not me being intolerant.  This is just me relaying the message of the gospel, that Christ is the truth, the way, and the life.

Neither Jews nor Muslims nor Atheists are going to Hell for simply refusing to worship your favorite pagan man-god.  Especially since Jews and Muslims are strict monotheists and Atheists are strictly not polytheists.  That pretty much leaves polytheistic Christians smack dab in violation of "You will have no other gods before me."

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Fortunate_Son
TheistTroll
Posts: 262
Joined: 2009-12-24
User is offlineOffline
FurryCatHerder wrote:Neither

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Neither Jews nor Muslims nor Atheists are going to Hell for simply refusing to worship your favorite pagan man-god.  Especially since Jews and Muslims are strict monotheists and Atheists are strictly not polytheists.  That pretty much leaves polytheistic Christians smack dab in violation of "You will have no other gods before me."

We don't have any Gods before Him.  God exists not only as a personal being, but a being who has revealed Himself as occupying his own category of existence.  Hence, God is not composed at all.  He is not a being who happens to exist under the "God" category and contains his attributes as separate components.  Rather, God constitutes the category itself.  Therefore, God (a singular being) is able to manifest his nature in separate persons.  The nature remains static, but the people are different.  Jesus is the son in the Holy Trinity.  We are worshipping the same God.

Jews are going to Hell if they adhere to the belief that they can get into Heaven on their own merits.  Simply following laws is no longer sufficient for atoning for sin.  Our nature is just too removed from the glory of God.  If you are predestined for salvation, you will trust in God himself who paid the penalty for you.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10687
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
"You start off kinda weak,

"You start off kinda weak, get better as you go, and finish with a flourish.Bravo!"

Why thank you.

"Actually, I'm not intolerant at all."

I'm sure you believe that, but it isn't true.

"When did I ever see that we should outlaw Jews from practicing their faith or Muslims from practicing theirs?  If someone wants to be something other than a Christian, then I'm not going to stop them from doing so."

Because the age of enlightenment has had a tightening leash on the combined denominations of the christian faith for the last four hundred years. It wasn't so long ago that there were witch hunts and crusades. Common and secular law and morality stop christians from active persecution upon their opponents. Eventually the same will happen to moslems. The intolerant aspects will be weeded out and destroyed, as has slowly happened with the christians.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10687
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
"But they are going to

"But they are going to Hell."

Every time you assert that someone is going to hell, you make a number of assumptions. You assume the opponent is and must be wrong. You assume you are and must be right. You assume god, jesus, good, evil, and even hell itself (which, if I remember correctly, was an invention of one christian doctrine or another only a few hundred years ago). I wouldn't believe in hell even if I did believe in god. If I were to believe in hell, I'd be incapable of believing god was anywhere near as good as I am.

"This is not me being intolerant.  This is just me relaying the message of the gospel, that Christ is the truth, the way, and the life."

You are being intolerant. You're assuming that the bible is true above and beyond more ancient writings, writings of the same time, and writings that came after. That is intolerant. I'm intolerant towards all of them too, but at least I have the honesty to admit it. I just add yours to the pile.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Fortunate_Son
TheistTroll
Posts: 262
Joined: 2009-12-24
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:The intolerant

Vastet wrote:
The intolerant aspects will be weeded out and destroyed, as has slowly happened with the christians.

So then you agree that I am not being intolerant?


Fortunate_Son
TheistTroll
Posts: 262
Joined: 2009-12-24
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:"But they are

Vastet wrote:
"But they are going to Hell." Every time you assert that someone is going to hell, you make a number of assumptions. You assume the opponent is and must be wrong. You assume you are and must be right.

And why would I assume otherwise?  And how is that being intolerant?  

"Tolerance" doesn't mean that we have to believe that two mutually exclusive things are correct.  "Tolerance" is being fair to other people who disagree with you.  I am not going out and killing Jews or promoting discrimination against Jews in the workplace.  I'm just repeating what the gospels say.

Anybody who is not a Christian is going to Hell.  

If you don't believe in Hell, then why do you even care?  That's what the scriptures say.  Get over it.

Quote:
You are being intolerant. You're assuming that the bible is true above and beyond more ancient writings, writings of the same time, and writings that came after. That is intolerant. I'm intolerant towards all of them too, but at least I have the honesty to admit it. I just add yours to the pile.

What writings?  The bible is a collection of 66 books, some claims of which are consistent with those of other religions.. other claims which are inconsistent with those of other religions.

I'm sorry that the world isn't all puffy white clouds and pretty roses.  Obviously, you are carrying some liberal banner of tolerance whereby we can all agree with each other and live in harmony.  Too bad the world does not work that way.  Some people are right and others are wrong.  Need a tissue?


FurryCatHerder
Theist
FurryCatHerder's picture
Posts: 1253
Joined: 2007-06-02
User is offlineOffline
Fortunate_Son wrote:We don't

Fortunate_Son wrote:

We don't have any Gods before Him.  God exists not only as a personal being, but a being who has revealed Himself as occupying his own category of existence.  Hence, God is not composed at all.  He is not a being who happens to exist under the "God" category and contains his attributes as separate components.  Rather, God constitutes the category itself.  Therefore, God (a singular being) is able to manifest his nature in separate persons.  The nature remains static, but the people are different.  Jesus is the son in the Holy Trinity.  We are worshipping the same God.

Are you one of those -- "Skin, Fruit, Seeds -- all the same Apple" Christians?

(Muslims take on the Trinity much moreso that Jews, because Muslims believe that Jesus was an Islamic prophet and they have a lot more skin in the game than we do.)

 

Fortunate_Son wrote:

Jews are going to Hell if they adhere to the belief that they can get into Heaven on their own merits.  Simply following laws is no longer sufficient for atoning for sin.  Our nature is just too removed from the glory of God.  If you are predestined for salvation, you will trust in God himself who paid the penalty for you.

Jesus cannot pay the "penalty" for my mistakes.  They are my mistakes to learn from and to correct.  Following the Law is how I learn to live my life in a manner that is consistent with creating a better planet on which everyone can live, not simply hoping that Jesus gives poor people what they need, but only if they have the "Faith".  The Torah says that WE are responsible for the poor, the widow and the orphan.  Not magical Jesus.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Fortunate_Son
TheistTroll
Posts: 262
Joined: 2009-12-24
User is offlineOffline
FurryCatHerder wrote:Are you

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Are you one of those -- "Skin, Fruit, Seeds -- all the same Apple" Christians?

(Muslims take on the Trinity much moreso that Jews, because Muslims believe that Jesus was an Islamic prophet and they have a lot more skin in the game than we do.)

Anyone who asserts that Christians are polytheistic has a very primitive understanding of the Holy Trinity and that further solidifies my belief that you were never a true Christian to begin with.

I can't download videos.  Please stick to giving me your views.

Quote:
Jesus cannot pay the "penalty" for my mistakes.  They are my mistakes to learn from and to correct.  Following the Law is how I learn to live my life in a manner that is consistent with creating a better planet on which everyone can live, not simply hoping that Jesus gives poor people what they need, but only if they have the "Faith".  The Torah says that WE are responsible for the poor, the widow and the orphan.  Not magical Jesus.

You can correct your mistakes all you want.  You will just continually make them over and over again.  It is in your nature to do so. 


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5102
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
If you were in fact tolerant

Fortunate_Son wrote:

 

I'm sorry that the world isn't all puffy white clouds and pretty roses.  Obviously, you are carrying some liberal banner of tolerance whereby we can all agree with each other and live in harmony.  Too bad the world does not work that way.  Some people are right and others are wrong.  Need a tissue?

 

 

You would oppose the intolerant views of your lord and master. But you don't. Instead you play word games. And you're not responsible for his inability to comprehend the word forgiveness. No - you're just following 'orders'. You claim the moral high ground while displaying the bleakness of your true heart. On judgment day when god's herding people into the lake of fire, I hope you enjoy your strawberries and cream.

Please don't go anywhere fortunate son - you're going to be ever so popular here.

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


FurryCatHerder
Theist
FurryCatHerder's picture
Posts: 1253
Joined: 2007-06-02
User is offlineOffline
Fortunate_Son

Fortunate_Son wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Are you one of those -- "Skin, Fruit, Seeds -- all the same Apple" Christians?

(Muslims take on the Trinity much moreso that Jews, because Muslims believe that Jesus was an Islamic prophet and they have a lot more skin in the game than we do.)

Anyone who asserts that Christians are polytheistic has a very primitive understanding of the Holy Trinity and that further solidifies my belief that you were never a true Christian to begin with.

I understood it very well.  My grandfather had a D.Div. and I loved nothing more than listening to him preach whenever I could.  When we'd go visit, after he'd retired, I'd sit in his study and read his old sermons.  He founded churches on two different continents.

The Christian concept is that your god has three different "persons" or "natures" that are "mysteriously" bound up into a single "god".  Not that you can find any support for this view in the scriptures -- it wasn't invented until Christianity was a few CENTURIES old.

Jesus never claims to be a god.  The language that Christians use as proof-texts are used throughout the Tanakh.  They are still used by Jews to this very day -- G-d is my Father.  G-d is also my King, my Redeemer, my Rock, etc.

Quote:
Quote:
Jesus cannot pay the "penalty" for my mistakes.  They are my mistakes to learn from and to correct.  Following the Law is how I learn to live my life in a manner that is consistent with creating a better planet on which everyone can live, not simply hoping that Jesus gives poor people what they need, but only if they have the "Faith".  The Torah says that WE are responsible for the poor, the widow and the orphan.  Not magical Jesus.

You can correct your mistakes all you want.  You will just continually make them over and over again.  It is in your nature to do so. 

Yes, and it's also G-d's desire that we keep working on our "nature" until we get it right.  Your way, no one has to do anything, just keep on making mistakes, keep on hurting others, keeping on leaving the world a messed up place -- because when you die, Jesus makes it all better.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


FurryCatHerder
Theist
FurryCatHerder's picture
Posts: 1253
Joined: 2007-06-02
User is offlineOffline
Atheistextremist wrote:You

Atheistextremist wrote:

You would oppose the intolerant views of your lord and master. But you don't. Instead you play word games. And you're not responsible for his inability to comprehend the word forgiveness. No - you're just following 'orders'. You claim the moral high ground while displaying the bleakness of your true heart. On judgment day when god's herding people into the lake of fire, I hope you enjoy your strawberries and cream.

Please don't go anywhere fortunate son - you're going to be ever so popular here.

SWOON!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Thud)

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Fortunate_Son
TheistTroll
Posts: 262
Joined: 2009-12-24
User is offlineOffline
FurryCatHerder wrote:I

FurryCatHerder wrote:

I understood it very well.  My grandfather had a D.Div. and I loved nothing more than listening to him preach whenever I could.  When we'd go visit, after he'd retired, I'd sit in his study and read his old sermons.  He founded churches on two different continents.

The Christian concept is that your god has three different "persons" or "natures" that are "mysteriously" bound up into a single "god".  Not that you can find any support for this view in the scriptures -- it wasn't invented until Christianity was a few CENTURIES old.

And you still can't get it right.

Three persons, one nature.

Quote:
Jesus never claims to be a god.  The language that Christians use as proof-texts are used throughout the Tanakh.  They are still used by Jews to this very day -- G-d is my Father.  G-d is also my King, my Redeemer, my Rock, etc.

"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)"

"And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)"

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)"


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5102
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
Hey there FurryCat

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

You would oppose the intolerant views of your lord and master. But you don't. Instead you play word games. And you're not responsible for his inability to comprehend the word forgiveness. No - you're just following 'orders'. You claim the moral high ground while displaying the bleakness of your true heart. On judgment day when god's herding people into the lake of fire, I hope you enjoy your strawberries and cream.

Please don't go anywhere fortunate son - you're going to be ever so popular here.

SWOON!

 

 

 

(Thud)

 

Hope you had a Merry Christmyth! 

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5102
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
Hey Sapphire!

SapphireMind wrote:

a request for witness, evangelizing, preaching or conversion? 

One of my pet peeves about it, is the theists saying "well, you just need to witness a good miracle".

To me, it's like telling a lesbian that she just hasn't met the right guy yet.

I've seen things I can't explain directly.  I'm ok with that.  Sometimes weird shit happens.  Just because I don't know or understand how it happened doesn't make a god involved. 

Comments to my blasphemy challenge have been very amusing in the conversion arena. 

I guess the bigger complaint is that if they attack my atheism and lack of belief and I rebound and attack their belief and god, I am being rude and socially unacceptable, while theirs is tolerated by most. 

 

The veracity of your first post is borne out in full measure....

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3716
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
Fortunate_Son wrote:I can't

Fortunate_Son wrote:
I can't download videos.  Please stick to giving me your views.

Huh? It's a stream. Why would it matter that you can't download it? 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


FurryCatHerder
Theist
FurryCatHerder's picture
Posts: 1253
Joined: 2007-06-02
User is offlineOffline
Atheistextremist

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

SWOON!

 

 

 

(Thud)

 

Hope you had a Merry Christmyth!

Had dinner by some friends, was going to go have still more dinner, but it didn't work out.  Wound up debugging some client / server code I'm working on, practiced guitar, tried to rent "Bruno", had a beer Eye-wink

This evening I decided to stress test the program.  It worked fine with 25 clients.  And then with 50 clients it was still running fine.  Somewhere around 75 clients it wedged.  I'm now waiting on my machine to either crash or start killing processes off on account of low resources.  The drive lights are lit solid, so it's almost certainly thrashing itself to death.  Next time, I stress it on the 3.2GHz Phenom II I keep lying around for such purposes -- 6TB of SATA II disk storage (good for lots of swap space) and 8GB DDR3 (good for lots of not swapping).  At least I think it's DDR3.  It's a giant power waster, so I leave it turned off most of the time and stick with the lower power machines I have.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5102
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
FurryCatHerder

FurryCatHerder wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

SWOON!

 

 

 

(Thud)

 

Hope you had a Merry Christmyth!

Had dinner by some friends, was going to go have still more dinner, but it didn't work out.  Wound up debugging some client / server code I'm working on, practiced guitar, tried to rent "Bruno", had a beer Eye-wink

This evening I decided to stress test the program.  It worked fine with 25 clients.  And then with 50 clients it was still running fine.  Somewhere around 75 clients it wedged.  I'm now waiting on my machine to either crash or start killing processes off on account of low resources.  The drive lights are lit solid, so it's almost certainly thrashing itself to death.  Next time, I stress it on the 3.2GHz Phenom II I keep lying around for such purposes -- 6TB of SATA II disk storage (good for lots of swap space) and 8GB DDR3 (good for lots of not swapping).  At least I think it's DDR3.  It's a giant power waster, so I leave it turned off most of the time and stick with the lower power machines I have.

 

Hi there Furry - what is The Program in briefest form? Are the clients local or MPLS or both? It's obviously running on one server? It sounds like you're having plenty of fun with it!

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


FurryCatHerder
Theist
FurryCatHerder's picture
Posts: 1253
Joined: 2007-06-02
User is offlineOffline
Atheistextremist wrote:Hi

Atheistextremist wrote:

Hi there Furry - what is The Program in briefest form? Are the clients local or MPLS or both? It's obviously running on one server? It sounds like you're having plenty of fun with it!

 

Right now the clients and server are running on the same box -- I've not set up a test bed to put the clients on other systems and have them pound on the server process remotely.  Normally I'd do that later in the development cycle.  My assumption was that the performance of the software was closer to linear, but apparently it is quadratic and the "knee" is a little lower than I thought it was.  That or the machine is grossly underpowered for what I was trying to do.  At this point, I think I'm going to reset the machine.

Tomorrow I'll get my Phenom server into a rack and abuse it.  I think I have parts to build a couple more Phenom servers, so I might do that and run the clients and server on separate machines and see if I can get past 1,000 clients.  Most of the systems I use have less than 10,000 bogomips which is not going to be enough for scalability testing (not that bogomips are useful, just saying ... ).  The test that wedged my machine was intended to verify that clients were able to connect fairly rapidly without causing a deadlock that I'd seen earlier.

The software monitors electric systems.  Each client is for a separate electrical system and the server monitors the performance of multiple clients.  The eventual goal is to be able to manage the power for an electric co-op that uses distributed renewable generation systems.

There's not enough network traffic for MPLS or anything else that fancy.  The total network bandwidth use at 1,000 clients is less than 1MB/s.  It's very CPU and memory intensive, however.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5102
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
FurryCatHerder wrote:The

FurryCatHerder wrote:

The software monitors electric systems.  Each client is for a separate electrical system and the server monitors the performance of multiple clients.  The eventual goal is to be able to manage the power for an electric co-op that uses distributed renewable generation systems.

 

That sounds great. Is the management system like a sort of WAN-based SCADA? I imagine there'd need to be some high level integration in there to bring in hardware at the client end. Is it just for utilities or for mum and dad contributors as well?

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


FurryCatHerder
Theist
FurryCatHerder's picture
Posts: 1253
Joined: 2007-06-02
User is offlineOffline
Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

The software monitors electric systems.  Each client is for a separate electrical system and the server monitors the performance of multiple clients.  The eventual goal is to be able to manage the power for an electric co-op that uses distributed renewable generation systems.

That sounds great. Is the management system like a sort of WAN-based SCADA? I imagine there'd need to be some high level integration in there to bring in hardware at the client end. Is it just for utilities or for mum and dad contributors as well?

WAN-based SCADA for people who don't need SCADA.  If that makes sense.

The code isn't capable of managing utility-scale power, unless by "utility" you mean a few hundred DRG systems networked together.  Think "town" or "village" rather than "city" or "state".

Enough about me.  I want to know a lot more about your sailboat.  In exchange, I will tell you about my 365 horsepower Chevy.  Because I figure a fast car with a big motor is the exact opposite of a slow boat with no (or small) motor.  Sort of like you don't believe in G-d and I'm a religious fanatic.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10687
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Fortunate_Son wrote:Vastet

Fortunate_Son wrote:

Vastet wrote:
The intolerant aspects will be weeded out and destroyed, as has slowly happened with the christians.

So then you agree that I am not being intolerant?

No, you're simply more tolerant than your christian predecessors. You're still intolerant. You prove it each and every time you assert anyone is going to hell. You break the rules of your own religion too. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

" That's what the scriptures say."

In fact, it isn't. But Furry or someone else more familiar with ancient and primitive ideas can educate you on that.

"What writings?"

The collective writings of mankind.

" Some people are right and others are wrong."

And you are wrong. Need a tissue?

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


FurryCatHerder
Theist
FurryCatHerder's picture
Posts: 1253
Joined: 2007-06-02
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:But Furry or


Vastet wrote:
But Furry or someone else more familiar with ancient and primitive ideas can educate you on that. "What writings?" The collective writings of mankind. " Some people are right and others are wrong." And you are wrong. Need a tissue?

Do not be saying nice things about me unless you own a bigger sailboat that Atheistextremist =and= a motorcycle.  He and I haven't gotten into a discussion about the network topology of the server farm at his house, so there's still hope for your PS3 if we can get Linux installed on it Eye-wink

I had a rabbi who said something along the lines of we need to be more concerned with other people's current life than with their afterlife.  That is about as succinct as it gets.  Because the #1 reason that Christians give, and have given for the past 800 to 1,000 years, for their murderous ways is concern about our immortal souls.  That is, they feel it is better to torture us until we accept that Jesus is some kind of god, than to demonstrate through right living that their way is better than our way.  "Baptism or the Sword" -- that's the choice that non-Christians are historically given.

There are exactly zero instances in the Torah where G-d says that we are to go out into foreign lands all over the world and make people believe in G-d or else we're going to get zapped.  All of this focus on immortal souls in Christianity comes from outside Judaism.  Look at the Egyptian cults -- they buried people with all manner of material goods so they'd get to the afterlife and have all the same toys in the afterlife they had in their present life.  Jews?  Plain pine box, wrap the body in a prayer shawl, bury them in dirt, the body rots, we recite Kaddish Yatom, and some Jews put rocks on the graves of dead people.  None of this massive concern about an "afterlife".  If the Master of the Universe wants to resurrect my body from the dead, I'm sure He knows how to do it.  But right now, Adon Shel Olam, HaKadosh Baruch Hu ("LORD of the Universe, the Holy One, Blessed Be He&quotEye-wink expects me to do what is right for others, in this life.  And that does not include telling people they are going to die and go to Hell (not that I believe in Hell ...) if they don't give up bacon cheeseburgers and start reading right-to-left when they say Grace.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


nigelTheBold
atheist
nigelTheBold's picture
Posts: 1868
Joined: 2008-01-25
User is offlineOffline
FurryCatHerder

FurryCatHerder wrote:
WAN-based SCADA for people who don't need SCADA.  If that makes sense.

Huzzah! Another M&C geek! I knew there was a reason I liked you, in spite of your fanaticism.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


nigelTheBold
atheist
nigelTheBold's picture
Posts: 1868
Joined: 2008-01-25
User is offlineOffline
FurryCatHerder wrote:He and

FurryCatHerder wrote:
He and I haven't gotten into a discussion about the network topology of the server farm at his house, so there's still hope for your PS3 if we can get Linux installed on it Eye-wink

*GASP* And Linux, too? Most excellent!

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


nigelTheBold
atheist
nigelTheBold's picture
Posts: 1868
Joined: 2008-01-25
User is offlineOffline
FurryCatHerder wrote:He and

*double post*


EXC
atheist
EXC's picture
Posts: 3139
Joined: 2008-01-17
User is offlineOffline
SapphireMind wrote:a request

SapphireMind wrote:

a request for witness, evangelizing, preaching or conversion? 

One of my pet peeves about it, is the theists saying "well, you just need to witness a good miracle".

I think your reply should be: Well then at that point, it wouldn't require any faith to believe, right? I would have evidence. So how could I be saved since being saved requires faith.

Then get into a discussion of whether any of the bible characters actually had faith. They witnessed many miracles so therefore they did not require any faith to believe.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


NoMoreCrazyPeople
atheistSuperfan
NoMoreCrazyPeople's picture
Posts: 969
Joined: 2009-10-14
User is offlineOffline
Fortunate_Son

Fortunate_Son wrote:

Actually, I'm not intolerant at all.

Really???

Fortunate_Son wrote:

But they are going to Hell.

Hmmm?  K douchebag.  It always amazes me how Christians can agree with their gods moral code and ethical philosophies inc. "eternal torture for finite crimes"  and be exonerated from the resposiblity of holding that belief in this world because its not them doing it  although they praise the one who is.  You certainly are a douchebag by association.

 

Fortunate_Son wrote:

When did I ever see that we should outlaw Jews from practicing their faith or Muslims from practicing theirs?

You didn't, only that they are going to hell for set faith, much better douchebag.  JOIN or DIE, not even death is a good enough punishment for our refusal to sign up, we must be tortured for eternity, some freedom of choice we have according to your beliefs, join your silly religion or suffer for eternity.  Good thing anyone with solid morals  thinks your a cook,  and you should be treated as so.  Although my punishment for your primitive immoral beliefs would pale in comparison to your eternal suffering for my moral ones, you should be given a ball and a pat on the back and left to play with the other children, observerd closely  by the rational moral adults so that you dont do anything cooky.  But besides being regarded as a nut, you will have no real punishment for your belief system, for it is indeed you right to have those beliefs, and you will surely not be punished after death for your silly understanding or morality/ethics.  You see what tolerance is, i tolerate your primitive views and believe you have the right to hold them and present them.  If you haven't hurt anyone and are of good character you do not deserve punishment for your beliefs in this life, not mind the un-proven afterlife.  Tolerance certainly is not JOIN or Die douchebag!      
 


nigelTheBold
atheist
nigelTheBold's picture
Posts: 1868
Joined: 2008-01-25
User is offlineOffline
NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:It

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
It always amazes me how Christians can agree with their gods moral code and ethical philosophies inc. "eternal torture for finite crimes"  and be exonerated from the resposiblity of holding that belief in this world because its not them doing it  although they praise the one who is.  You certainly are a douchebag by association.

 

I have an hypothesis for that. I think it is a bit of emotional redirection. See, they actually resent being told what to do by a book 2000 years past its shelf life. That's why they always project onto atheists the idea that there is no morality without god, so all atheists must therefore be immoral. Since all of this hinges on their belief in god, the worst crime is not believing in their god. Notice you can be forgiven for just about every other transgression, but not for being unable or unwilling to believe in god.

It all stems from their misdirected hatred of their own god.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13667
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is onlineOnline
SapphireMind wrote:a request

SapphireMind wrote:

a request for witness, evangelizing, preaching or conversion? 

One of my pet peeves about it, is the theists saying "well, you just need to witness a good miracle".

To me, it's like telling a lesbian that she just hasn't met the right guy yet.

I've seen things I can't explain directly.  I'm ok with that.  Sometimes weird shit happens.  Just because I don't know or understand how it happened doesn't make a god involved. 

Comments to my blasphemy challenge have been very amusing in the conversion arena. 

I guess the bigger complaint is that if they attack my atheism and lack of belief and I rebound and attack their belief and god, I am being rude and socially unacceptable, while theirs is tolerated by most. 

Oh yes there is a god involved. I see amputees regrow their dead arms and legs a week after they get cut off. Hey, and human flesh can survive rigor mortis, and babies magically are born without a second set of DNA, and lesbians are result of Satan manipulating the neurons in the heads of lesbos with a pitchfork, defying god's law asserted in Leviticus.

In other news, FAUX NEWS, is reporting that all Red Lobsters have been smote.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37