Old to atheism new to the reality of death.
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I am 40 years old, was an atheist (or at least I never thought about God) until about 2 years ago, when a drunk driver ran a red light and t-boned my side of the car at about 60mph. My head smashed the driver’s side window of my car so hard, I became comatose. Several hours after the accident, the doctors rushed me into ICU, I found myself in a very dark place. I remember being on all fours with incredible heat and pressure pushing me further down into darkness. All I could feel was pain and emotional anguish. This lasted for several minutes. The pain, blindness and shrieking (from the untold millions of other lost human and demonic souls inhabiting that place) became unbearable. Finally, I cried out, "Please God, I know I never believed in you before but if you are alive, you can save me from this horrible place!" Within a few seconds, I was lifted out of that terrible Hell and into the warmth of pure light. I recognized the light as Christ as I had remembered being told about Him as a child while attending church. Christ moved me into heaven where I spent the next several days. (The doctors finally pulled me out of the deep coma after 3 days). This is what it was like: Infinite pleasures to experience... love... light... meaning... exuberance... intense happiness and joy. And, if I changed my ways back on earth, and let people know that we all do die and face our life-actions, Christ promised me I could have good things for an eternity! There was no arguing in both places, there was no such thing as opinion or politics. There were just pure... God-given consequences for everyone's actions and belief systems. If you are a mean, angry person who uses or takes from others (or God), then you end up forever surrounded by other mean, cruel people who hate God and want nothing to do with him or good things. If you are an angel on earth (like Mother Theresa and Billy Graham , for example) then you will enjoy an infinite time spent surrounded by God's goodness and the good things shared by others. God is not a micro-manager and does not want to control the actions or beliefs of others but He does want us to choose good over evil (God over the desire for nothingness) and begin good works and helping others! The consequences for our behaviors emanating from our belief systems are staggering… They are infinite in experience and eternal in destiny. Both good and bad!
Charles Jackson PhD, Computer Science
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Should I do anything other than laugh? Am I supposed to be converted? What is the point of this?
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
If I make the assumption that you are telling 100% of the truth, it does not change my belief system at all. With you still being alive and breathing, it is entirely possible that you had a vivid and detailed dream and nothing else. I have tasted flavors, felt temperature change, and seen light in my dreams that have been entirely in my dream.
But for the sake of argument, let's say what you say is fact. If that is the case, my beliefs will neither confirm or deny me the 'pleasures' in heaven. All that matters is whether or not I am a 'good' person, do 'good' deeds, and give to others. So, I'll keep on living the way I am right now, and if I fit this God's definition of 'good' (which I personally think I will), then I have an unexpected pleasant surprise when I kick the bucket.
Also, if "He does want us to choose good over evil (God over the desire for nothingness)" is his entire basis of good over evil... then its an arbitrary process... there a millions of people who have never heard of the catholic god, so are they automatically condemned?
Sorry to hear about your accident ~ I wonder if the pain and aguish you felt was of your time pinned in your car after the accident. Perhaps the warm bright light was while you were in the hospital, feeling safe with all of the wonderful drugs making you feel no pain. Were you taken to the hospital in a helicopter?
Oh, and mother Theresa was a closet atheist and Billy Graham loves little boys.
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
total shit. You must be a presbyterian minister. I like arguing and I like opinion. My infinite pleasures don't include Love, Light, Meaning, Exuberance, Intense Happiness and Joy. I prefer chocolate, motorcycling slowly in a T-shirt, spanking and sailing close
hauled. Your idea of heaven is pathetic and your use of Billy Graham and Mother Theresa as earth angels marks you as a theist moron of more than usually spectacular stupidity.
The idea god would listen to your pathetic t-boned shrieks of woe just shows what an inconsistent twit he really is.
Go back to heaven and tell god you failed, then get down to gehenna where you and you ministry belong.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
WAIT! You like spanking??
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
Hi Charles Jackson, welcome to RRS.
Looking back, do you think that when you were an atheist, you were a mean, cruel person who hated God and wanted nothing to do with good things?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Welp, looks like I have to learn how to enhance my commenting ability... haha
Let's see - a contrived story based on shaky theology...
You're either a minister or a cut and paste wizard.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
better to give than to receive...
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
It sounds like you suffered from some trauma there. Could that be the cause of your "religious experience"? I'm thinking it is likely.
Still...
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Getting the shit scared out of you is not an argument to believe or not to believe.
We are glad you survived, but how many people involved in car crashes are not so lucky? How many people die from cancer who are Muslim or Jewish or atheist? How many people die from heart attacks who are Budhists or Hindus?
You got lucky, and that is it. Your ride was extended by luck. But unlike you, I do not see luck as magic because I know that life is finite. If you wont accept your survival to Allah blessing you, WHICH YOU SHOULDNT, and would be rational to reject. Do the right thing and do not insert superstition to the shit being scared out of you.
Your survival was not the result of a super man vs a super villain. Your survival was a result of random luck.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I know the feeling, when I was 19 I was shot in the head, through my right eye. The immediate effect is like having a bell rung, except it's your head doing the ringing. After much drugs, I awoke blind sometime the next day. Several days later bandages were removed and I could see again, from one eye. Since I was a good little Christian at the time, God obviously left me alone and didn't show me anything or perhaps it was because there was nada to see as it was all a fantasy land tale.
I also was hit by a drunk driver a few years later. I was in a near head-on where the drunk was driving well over 120 mph. My car rolled and slide down a granite ditch (in Colorado). I walked away with a shattered knee cap and a concussion. Following this experience I took the path to become a atheist. It was what is called a significant emotional event. My course of action was to live in this world and learn, understand and live life. After having several of these events, I concluded life was short, live it well. Don't live your life for someone else or a fantasy. But that's me, you feel free to live your life based on the myths and legends of 2000 plus years ago. Perhaps that will leave more room at the Blackjack Tables and the stages at titty bars. Nah, just wish full thinking.
You are describing the incredible pain of a head injury. You then received plenty of drugs. The white light and the euphoria is the effect of the morphine drip.
Damn, aren't drugs a fantastic experience?
Just how long do you think it will take you to get bored shit less in eternity?
Yawn, I'm already bored.
This is what exactly? Praising god and singing, and doing the rah rah episodes in Revelation? Then throwing down your crown or whatever and doing it all again?
To quote Roxy the Grim Reaper, "You don't know me." For that matter, you don't know have any clue what other people think or do. Such generalization is pure crap. I could say from my observation of those claiming to be believers they are all murderous thugs based solely on the Crusades, the Irish Protestant and Catholic wars, Islam in general and Jerry Falwell. That would neglect that the majority of believers are simply going through life trying to exist and do so using the crutch of believing in fantasy. SFW. As long as that's all they do, pray to your invisible sky gods of whatever fantasy you have chosen.
Yawn.
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
I have confronted a couple of times in my life the apparently immediate possibility of not surviving, altho none involved actual severe physical discomfort or pain. Apart from that attack of acute appendicitis, but then, I never realized I was in an actually life-threatening situation until after the surgery.
Never, except as a brief passing thought, did God, let alone prayer, occupy my thoughts, AFAICR.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
I agree. Even in the episodes I described above my thoughts had nothing to do with God. When I was shot, my first thought was to kill the asshole who shot me. I realized I would have trouble getting to a hospital yet alone back to town, we were hunting, so he got to live. In the car wreck, my first thought was how was I going to get to the airport for a trip to Las Vegas the next day with my car destroyed.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
Delusions do not make a good argument.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Wow. So you lost that eye permanently?
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Remarks from Tennessee atheists that had to gather around the mac to read this with me.
First - "You'd think god would have did him a solid and slowed the drunk driver down."
Second - "60mph. Wow. Josh, do the force calculation for that like you did with the roll."
Third - "god is not a micro-manager, like P******? (the boss) Cool. P****** is god. He'd love that."
Me - "Heat and pressure? That's much better than the hell most jesus freaks tell me I'm headed for."
Resident wannabe secular christian - "When these people write to y'alls board, do they know how stupid thay are?"
Me - "That's why we have the board. We don't want them to continue to be stupid."
Resident wannabe secular christian - "I don't think god pays any attention to beliefs. He might have been punishing the drunk driver."
Two atheists leave hiding snickers of laughter.
Third - "Huh? Punishing the drunk driver by sending this guy to his hell[sarcasm tone]?"
Resident wannabe secular christian - "Yeah. The drunk must've felt bad. What happened to the drunk driver?"
At this point, I gave work assignments for cleanup.
This one is better than the 'Satin into lake of fire' thing. I can almost hear the parodies acted out on the floor tomorrow.
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whoa! i haven't heard this one. are there allegations in the news or are you just being feisty?
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
So far I've never heard of anything like him being a pedophile.
I know for a fact that Graham is at least a borderline anti-semite. Remember a few years ago when those Nixon-era tape recordings were released to the national media and there were those comments he was making that were a bit....questionable ? At first Graham said that he didn't remember making them, then he gave some kind of off-hand apology to the Jewish community.
http://www.rense.com/general20/billy.htm
Damn that's some extraordinarily low quality bullshit CJ.
Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist
www.mathematicianspictures.com
I was being feisty !
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
Yeah. Though it has never stopped me from doing anything. Other than I hate 3 D movies.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
Well you never stated if you actually died or not, on my experience, and I was declared dead for about 3 minutes (thank you doc for not giving up) was well umm nothing really, no pain, no pleasure, nothing. No devil, no god, absolutely nothing, pretty much what I expected.
As well you "testimony" contradicts both my Hindu friends version of the afterlife that he claims his grandfather experienced and my Buddhist friend experienced after an accident similar to yours....except his was head on not T-boned. So why should I believe your story is any more real than the Hindu guys and the Buddhist explanation of their experience of the afterlife? Nether of them died, and all had head trauma (stroke and car accident)? At least mine wasn't head trauma, although there was a lack of oxygen, stupid jeep operator can't drive the damn thing during a shoot out, good thing we had red cross right behind us.
Agreed cant say it any better
Well theirs your first problem, you got smoked in the head dude, HARD!!! Im no doctor but getting smoked in the head can leave you seing all kinds of stuff. You ever been knocked out by a proper boxer your chin snapped back knees buckle lifelesly? Ever pitched a base ball only to have it batted straight at your nogen, BANG! These were my 2 occasions in life of being smoked in the head and waking up later on wonderin wtf. Both times i remember random thoughts and moments of timelessness as i fell to the floor slowly. Im sure I had many crazy dreams happening in these moments i was out, all the adrenaline and whatever else is released when you are injured flowin. Although i dont remember any it was more a cloud of nothingness i can imagine some may have more lucid exeriences, especiallly when then injury is more severe than the ones i experienced.
Probably because you got smoked, its painfull inside and out.
Whoe, how'd you get to that? Drugs kickin in?
Ahh, there it goes, swwweeet drugs.
Hmmm? I wonder if you attended any churches of other religions than christianity as a child? If you had distinct dormant memories and beliefs in other deities im sure they would have made an appearance aswell.
What are these good things exactly? What do you "do" in your heaven for eternity i wonder?
AAHHHHH!!!! Heaven is the free-minded athiests hell. No opigion??? No politics??? No ARGUING??? Just love and praise for god who we can't question, i'd be the first to commit suicide in heaven or question god so he would banish me.
Nope, im good then?
Mother Theresa the Athiest? Or the other one?
Billy Graham, enough said.
Option A)-God Option B)-Desire for nothingness. Wow, thanks for the broad spectrum of choices.
Basicaly its simple, your either the charlotten or their prey. You either know your experiences to be dreams and reactions to drugs and various chemicals released in your brain at times of great trauma and use this story now in an attempt to gather followers or convert naive people to christianity. Or you actually do believe you spent 3 days with jesus and that you were in a perfectly good state of mind to make that assertion. If thats the case the you are religions favorite kind of human, those who can believe fluff. Preachers will go on to fluff your story back to you and they and you will tell your story and decieve more naiive people, they will cheer, i will puke. Thanks for the story, its a very average and typical format of the crazies.
As others have suggested, the head trauma would seem to explain the heaven & hell experience.
This suggests that his "atheism" was more a matter of having neglected the question than one of having come to the rational conclusion that gods most likely do not exist. If he was a serious atheist -- especially one who was formerly a committed religionist -- I think it's less likely that he would have been swayed by one anomalous experience.
True. For example, belief in gods and an afterlife have triggered many of the horrors in human history.
Reality is the graveyard of the gods.
So the guy comes by, tells this garbage story that I couldn't help laugh at, (not his misfortune of the accident) and disappears to never make another post again? Ok, thanks for the laugh bub. Sorry the blow to the head made you delusional and " god " stepped in.
How exactly did you know it was heaven and the white light was christ?
How do you know they were not lying?