Does anyone in America still like Obama?

Loc
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Does anyone in America still like Obama?

While browsing various stories and articles on the net, as I frequently do, I have become puzzled by the volume of anti-Obama sentiment that seems to appear in comment sections. I know comments are the pit of the internet, but what's going on? Even on articles that have absolutely nothing to do with politics, some Obama bashing will find it's way in before long. I find it hard to believe that conservative Republicans are so active on the internet, posting their opinion everywhere. Maybe it's just me but I tend to imagine them sitting in the deep south, without knowing how to even use a computer Sticking out tongue For instance, on a story about someone who did something stupid(I forget details) someone commented, "It's stupidity like this that got Obama elected" Why does no one ever seem to oppose these comments? Do democrats not have internet?

A few months ago everyone was singing Obama's praises, now he seem to be on par with Bush on the popularity meter.I can't remember when last I saw a positive comment about the administration. Or is it just that Americans love to pass the blame?

 

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


ClockCat
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:3

I think I have seen almost every nonsensical talking point the pundits have sensationalized here. The only ones left are the "birthers". Someone start referring to Obama as Kenyan or Muslim, and then explain how he aborts thousands of babies with his bare hands on weekends, and I'll call it a day.

 

It is hilarious to me that someone says 1. President Obama is doing nothing and 2. President Obama is destroying the country!!!11one from one breath to the next.

 

It is also hilarious that these are factless vague points, highly opinionated, and largely have nothing to do with President Obama's policies or the work he has done as president. 

 

 

It is like these people ignore the president, and focus on the media characterization of him from their choice media. One nontroversy after the next, conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory...

 

Obama Derangement Syndrome.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


Big E
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darth_josh wrote:REVLyle

darth_josh wrote:

REVLyle wrote:

You might want to check out the SNL skit about Obama because it was as accurate as it gets - no matter what CNN says.

You're basing an opinion on a television show????

Do you watch the Flintstones as if it were a documentary on prehistoric times?

 

REVLyle wrote:
I will address several issues.  By the way . . . I don't listen to Beck, Rush, or Hannity.

Doesn't matter. I watch the 700 club, it hasn't changed my opinion.

 

REVLyle wrote:
Let me help you out a little bit.

Why don't I like Obama . . . because he is a fake.

We shall see. I'll go point-by-point with you even though I did this earlier.

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 1 - He tells everyone he is about the little man.  He is about helping those who are down and out. . . and yet his life does not prove that.  Between the years of 2000-2006 he gave as little as .4% (yes, that is a decimal) to charities and only up to 6.1%  . . . as he got closer to running for president in 2006.  But as he certainly believes in giving your money and my money to others.  That way his name is praised.

I responded to this earlier. He is no different than a preacher seeking to get a congregation on his side. Politicians are almost required to do this.

REVLyle wrote:
Point 2 - He is a liar.  He lied about Reverend Wright.  In the church for 20 years and said he didn't know what he stood for, RIGHT!!!!

Wright's racist comments were publicly denounced by then candidate Obama several times. Did it ever occur to you that Jeremiah Wright, as an opportunist preacher, used his association with Obama to push his own views?

REVLyle wrote:
He lied about taking money from DC lobbiest.

Really? Do you know why people give money to people? They want something. When you have millions of dollars coming in, are you supposed to know whom every dollar comes from or use it to further the agenda that the people giving you the money agree with you on?

 

REVLyle wrote:
He lied about barely knowing Rezco

So without a doubt, you can call this man a liar. You declare you know without a doubt the extent of his knowledge of Tony Rezco? Even then, does that mean that Obama would engage in racketeering?

Comparative: Because Ted Haggard was W. Bush's spiritual advisor should that mean that Bush bought meth from a gay masseur?

 

REVLyle wrote:
Obama lied about barely knowing Blagojevich

He never said he 'barely knew him'. When the pay-for-play scandal hit, he publicly showed dismay and said that if it was true, he didn't know Blagojevich as well as he thought.

Twist words much?

REVLyle wrote:
He is simply a pathological liar.

AND YOU ARE BEARING FALSE WITNESS!

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 3 - The Nobel prize.  Dude, you really need to cut back on the drugs.  Let me quote to you the opening sentence on the TIME article concerning the peace prize (remember they love him) -

The last thing Barack Obama needed at this moment in his presidency and our politics is a prize for a promise.   Read more: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1929395,00.html#ixzz0WheUtkQC

The article goes on to say . . . By now there are surely more callouses on his lips than his hands . . . and you will love this one . . . But even his fans know that none of the dreams have yet come true, and a prize for even dreaming them can feed the illusion that they have. PBO has done nothing in Israel, nothing in Iraq, nothing about Iran and nothing in Afganistan.  disarmament . . . you have got to be joking.  Who has put down any arms because of Obama?

No other president has laid out the kinds of goals that connect with people on a global basis.

Granted. I would like to have seen them wait, but it's done. Get over it.

Elie Wiesel wrote a book decades after WWII and received a Peace Prize for essentially forgiving the german people, but not forgetting what was done. he gets a peace prize because he forgives?

REVLyle wrote:
Point 4 - He has not closed Gitmo - He has talked about it . . . but the prisoners are still there.

Nobody wants them. Their own countries don't even want them back. Any empty apartments on your block?

REVLyle wrote:
Point 5 - His fictional tales about jobs gained and saved . . . another bunch of lies.  Let me give you just one example, but if you need me to, I can give you plenty more.  Obama's administration stated that they saved 935 jobs at the Southwest Georgia Community Action Council.  GET READY FOR THIS . . . The council only employs 508 people.  Ah yes, our honest president.

You say 'his fictional tales' and then say 'Obama's administration'. Which the fuck is it? Him or Robert Gibbs or someone else??

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 6 - Now I thought you guys hated Bush for domestic spying . . . and Obama was very critical of this issue as well.  BUT NOW, it seems OK with Obama and it seems ok with you guys as well.

It hasn't worked anyway. In case you have been in a cave somewhere, Nidal Malik Hasan was 'spied' upon and they did nothing.

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 7 - I am not sure where to start on Healthcare . . . but I hope you have the money for it, because if you don't you will go to prison - Obama would not even condemn that possibility.  That is not a conservative or liberal issue . . . it is a freedom issue.

You    are    a     dumbfuck.

I posted the section of the bill dealing with taxing uninsured people. DID YOU FUCKING SEE ONE FUCKING PART THAT SAID JAIL IN IT?????? DID YOU EVEN TRY TO READ IT? Did your parents have any other children that lived?

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 8 - He shows no leadership.  Campaigning - A+    Leadership - F

Whatever. He could step out on the podium and do slapstick comedy wearing a Charlie Chaplin costume and come off as more intelligent than you have in this post.

REVLyle wrote:
Let me clarify one point.  I don't believe he is an idiot when it comes to everything in life.  I guess he might be good at law.  But he is an idiot when it comes to running our country, chosing his friends, and economics.  He has certainly proved that.

I know he has only been in office a year . . . but just wait - He will continue to prove he is way over his head.

It hasn't been a year.

He was the best choice. It was the first time I EVER voted in my life because there was actually someone to vote FOR instead of picking the lesser of two evils.

OH! And if you're a 'birther' too, let me remind you that McCain was born in Panama.

 

He was definitely not the best choice we had. The media picked him for us. The American people are to uneducated to think for themselves and rely on TV. The man has done nothing positive for the country and with his idea of economics he's only going to make things worse. He is an eloquent speaker,(when he has a teleprompter) and people were fooled by it. He's a socialist scumbag and he is not my president. And for the whole McCain was born in Panama, uh, he was born in a US territory. Don't get me wrong, I didn't support him either, and I hate defending him because he is a scumbag too, but you can't argue BS with BS.

This administration is as bad as the rest when it comes to completely ignoring the Constitution, and that does not sit well with me. Universal healthcare= unconstitutional. We are witnessing the demise of a once great nation. If something doesn't happen we are going to lose everything, and unfortunately the general public is so apathetic and dependent on the government now that we are nearing the point of no return. 98%. That's the retention rate of our Congress that everybody bitches and moans about, but come election time, vote them right back in. Our citizens have been dumbed down to the point of not even caring that they don't know some of the most important things that effect their lives daily, but they can tell you who won the latest American Idol.

But back to the Obaaama administration, big government and added government programs is not the answer. Anything the government touches, they destroy. Stimulate the economy by printing more money, which in turn is going to devalue the currency? Dumb. Cash for clunkers which cost the tax payers a ton of money, and destroyed perfectly good vehicles that lower middle class people needed, dumb. Raise minimum wage so that small businesses can no longer afford to hire as many people, and in turn raise the unemployment rate, and forcing some business to shut down, which in turn raises the unemployment rate even more, DUMB. Bailing out and nationalizing businesses that are failing because of bad business practices, and forcing the taxpayers, us, our children, and their children to foot the bill,all the while giving their management large bonuses, instead of letting the free market do what it's supposed to do, DUMB. Lying to the public about giving them 5 days to read any bill that crosses his desk, well, that was kind of smart on his part, cuz they fell for it. Keeping us in a "war" on a tactic that can never be won, because you can't fight a war against an idea, and costing us billions, DUMB. Potentially destroying our sovereignty by signing treaties with other nations, DUMB. I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Obama sucks, he is not the Messiah and he doesn't have the answers, he has more problems.

I've enjoyed the last 8 years in the military, but I can't even do that anymore because the government can't get their shit together. Just wait until we end up messing with Iran, then we're in deep shit.


Vastet
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As long as inflation exists,

As long as inflation exists, there is no valid argument against increasing minimum wage. And suggestions that ANY business is hurt long term are patently ridiculous. Yes, in the short term small business is negatively affected. But the average employee doesn't work for small business, so the effect on unemployment is negligible. Furthermore, small business is hurt MORE by losing customers whe minimum wage isn't increased. The average employee works for or near minimum wage. If they spend more while making the same year after year, they have to go to big business to afford it, which cuts out small business completely, as opposed to creating a brief hardship that eventually reverses itself because the average worker actually has some money to spend. If business' actually raised wages themselves this would not be an issue. But they don't. They raise prices without raising wages. As long as the CPI goes up every year, minimum wage should go up by the exact same percentage. It has never done so in my lifetime.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


ClockCat
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:o

Big E wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

REVLyle wrote:

You might want to check out the SNL skit about Obama because it was as accurate as it gets - no matter what CNN says.

You're basing an opinion on a television show????

Do you watch the Flintstones as if it were a documentary on prehistoric times?

 

REVLyle wrote:
I will address several issues.  By the way . . . I don't listen to Beck, Rush, or Hannity.

Doesn't matter. I watch the 700 club, it hasn't changed my opinion.

 

REVLyle wrote:
Let me help you out a little bit.

Why don't I like Obama . . . because he is a fake.

We shall see. I'll go point-by-point with you even though I did this earlier.

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 1 - He tells everyone he is about the little man.  He is about helping those who are down and out. . . and yet his life does not prove that.  Between the years of 2000-2006 he gave as little as .4% (yes, that is a decimal) to charities and only up to 6.1%  . . . as he got closer to running for president in 2006.  But as he certainly believes in giving your money and my money to others.  That way his name is praised.

I responded to this earlier. He is no different than a preacher seeking to get a congregation on his side. Politicians are almost required to do this.

REVLyle wrote:
Point 2 - He is a liar.  He lied about Reverend Wright.  In the church for 20 years and said he didn't know what he stood for, RIGHT!!!!

Wright's racist comments were publicly denounced by then candidate Obama several times. Did it ever occur to you that Jeremiah Wright, as an opportunist preacher, used his association with Obama to push his own views?

REVLyle wrote:
He lied about taking money from DC lobbiest.

Really? Do you know why people give money to people? They want something. When you have millions of dollars coming in, are you supposed to know whom every dollar comes from or use it to further the agenda that the people giving you the money agree with you on?

 

REVLyle wrote:
He lied about barely knowing Rezco

So without a doubt, you can call this man a liar. You declare you know without a doubt the extent of his knowledge of Tony Rezco? Even then, does that mean that Obama would engage in racketeering?

Comparative: Because Ted Haggard was W. Bush's spiritual advisor should that mean that Bush bought meth from a gay masseur?

 

REVLyle wrote:
Obama lied about barely knowing Blagojevich

He never said he 'barely knew him'. When the pay-for-play scandal hit, he publicly showed dismay and said that if it was true, he didn't know Blagojevich as well as he thought.

Twist words much?

REVLyle wrote:
He is simply a pathological liar.

AND YOU ARE BEARING FALSE WITNESS!

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 3 - The Nobel prize.  Dude, you really need to cut back on the drugs.  Let me quote to you the opening sentence on the TIME article concerning the peace prize (remember they love him) -

The last thing Barack Obama needed at this moment in his presidency and our politics is a prize for a promise.   Read more: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1929395,00.html#ixzz0WheUtkQC

The article goes on to say . . . By now there are surely more callouses on his lips than his hands . . . and you will love this one . . . But even his fans know that none of the dreams have yet come true, and a prize for even dreaming them can feed the illusion that they have. PBO has done nothing in Israel, nothing in Iraq, nothing about Iran and nothing in Afganistan.  disarmament . . . you have got to be joking.  Who has put down any arms because of Obama?

No other president has laid out the kinds of goals that connect with people on a global basis.

Granted. I would like to have seen them wait, but it's done. Get over it.

Elie Wiesel wrote a book decades after WWII and received a Peace Prize for essentially forgiving the german people, but not forgetting what was done. he gets a peace prize because he forgives?

REVLyle wrote:
Point 4 - He has not closed Gitmo - He has talked about it . . . but the prisoners are still there.

Nobody wants them. Their own countries don't even want them back. Any empty apartments on your block?

REVLyle wrote:
Point 5 - His fictional tales about jobs gained and saved . . . another bunch of lies.  Let me give you just one example, but if you need me to, I can give you plenty more.  Obama's administration stated that they saved 935 jobs at the Southwest Georgia Community Action Council.  GET READY FOR THIS . . . The council only employs 508 people.  Ah yes, our honest president.

You say 'his fictional tales' and then say 'Obama's administration'. Which the fuck is it? Him or Robert Gibbs or someone else??

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 6 - Now I thought you guys hated Bush for domestic spying . . . and Obama was very critical of this issue as well.  BUT NOW, it seems OK with Obama and it seems ok with you guys as well.

It hasn't worked anyway. In case you have been in a cave somewhere, Nidal Malik Hasan was 'spied' upon and they did nothing.

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 7 - I am not sure where to start on Healthcare . . . but I hope you have the money for it, because if you don't you will go to prison - Obama would not even condemn that possibility.  That is not a conservative or liberal issue . . . it is a freedom issue.

You    are    a     dumbfuck.

I posted the section of the bill dealing with taxing uninsured people. DID YOU FUCKING SEE ONE FUCKING PART THAT SAID JAIL IN IT?????? DID YOU EVEN TRY TO READ IT? Did your parents have any other children that lived?

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 8 - He shows no leadership.  Campaigning - A+    Leadership - F

Whatever. He could step out on the podium and do slapstick comedy wearing a Charlie Chaplin costume and come off as more intelligent than you have in this post.

REVLyle wrote:
Let me clarify one point.  I don't believe he is an idiot when it comes to everything in life.  I guess he might be good at law.  But he is an idiot when it comes to running our country, chosing his friends, and economics.  He has certainly proved that.

I know he has only been in office a year . . . but just wait - He will continue to prove he is way over his head.

It hasn't been a year.

He was the best choice. It was the first time I EVER voted in my life because there was actually someone to vote FOR instead of picking the lesser of two evils.

OH! And if you're a 'birther' too, let me remind you that McCain was born in Panama.

 

He was definitely not the best choice we had. The media picked him for us. The American people are to uneducated to think for themselves and rely on TV. The man has done nothing positive for the country and with his idea of economics he's only going to make things worse. He is an eloquent speaker,(when he has a teleprompter) and people were fooled by it. He's a socialist scumbag and he is not my president. And for the whole McCain was born in Panama, uh, he was born in a US territory. Don't get me wrong, I didn't support him either, and I hate defending him because he is a scumbag too, but you can't argue BS with BS.

This administration is as bad as the rest when it comes to completely ignoring the Constitution, and that does not sit well with me. Universal healthcare= unconstitutional. We are witnessing the demise of a once great nation. If something doesn't happen we are going to lose everything, and unfortunately the general public is so apathetic and dependent on the government now that we are nearing the point of no return. 98%. That's the retention rate of our Congress that everybody bitches and moans about, but come election time, vote them right back in. Our citizens have been dumbed down to the point of not even caring that they don't know some of the most important things that effect their lives daily, but they can tell you who won the latest American Idol.

But back to the Obaaama administration, big government and added government programs is not the answer. Anything the government touches, they destroy. Stimulate the economy by printing more money, which in turn is going to devalue the currency? Dumb. Cash for clunkers which cost the tax payers a ton of money, and destroyed perfectly good vehicles that lower middle class people needed, dumb. Raise minimum wage so that small businesses can no longer afford to hire as many people, and in turn raise the unemployment rate, and forcing some business to shut down, which in turn raises the unemployment rate even more, DUMB. Bailing out and nationalizing businesses that are failing because of bad business practices, and forcing the taxpayers, us, our children, and their children to foot the bill,all the while giving their management large bonuses, instead of letting the free market do what it's supposed to do, DUMB. Lying to the public about giving them 5 days to read any bill that crosses his desk, well, that was kind of smart on his part, cuz they fell for it. Keeping us in a "war" on a tactic that can never be won, because you can't fight a war against an idea, and costing us billions, DUMB. Potentially destroying our sovereignty by signing treaties with other nations, DUMB. I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Obama sucks, he is not the Messiah and he doesn't have the answers, he has more problems.

I've enjoyed the last 8 years in the military, but I can't even do that anymore because the government can't get their shit together. Just wait until we end up messing with Iran, then we're in deep shit.

1. President Obama has done nothing positive for the country

2. His idea of economics makes things worse

3. Socialism makes someone a scumbag

4. President Obama is not your president.

5. President Obama's administration ignores the constitution, completely

6. Healthcare is unconstitutional

7. Universal Healthcare will destroy the country

8. Government programs are bad for the country

9. Anything government touches it destroys

10. Printing more money devalues the currency

11. "Cash for clunkers" destroyed cars that lower middle class people needed

12. Raising minimum wage hurts companies

13. Higher minimum wage causes unemployment

14. Higher minimum wage shuts down businesses

15. Bailing out and nationalizing businesses are both bad

16. Bailing out and nationalizing businesses gives CEOs large bonuses

17. Free market will prevent this

18. President Obama lied to the public about giving them 5 days to read any bill that crossed his desk

19. President Obama is keeping us in a war that can't be won and that is bad

20. President Obama signing treaties with other nations is bad

21. President Obama is not a messiah and is bad.

 

 

Just so we are clear, these are your talking points?

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


Big E
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ClockCat wrote:Big E

ClockCat wrote:

Big E wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

REVLyle wrote:

You might want to check out the SNL skit about Obama because it was as accurate as it gets - no matter what CNN says.

You're basing an opinion on a television show????

Do you watch the Flintstones as if it were a documentary on prehistoric times?

 

REVLyle wrote:
I will address several issues.  By the way . . . I don't listen to Beck, Rush, or Hannity.

Doesn't matter. I watch the 700 club, it hasn't changed my opinion.

 

REVLyle wrote:
Let me help you out a little bit.

Why don't I like Obama . . . because he is a fake.

We shall see. I'll go point-by-point with you even though I did this earlier.

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 1 - He tells everyone he is about the little man.  He is about helping those who are down and out. . . and yet his life does not prove that.  Between the years of 2000-2006 he gave as little as .4% (yes, that is a decimal) to charities and only up to 6.1%  . . . as he got closer to running for president in 2006.  But as he certainly believes in giving your money and my money to others.  That way his name is praised.

I responded to this earlier. He is no different than a preacher seeking to get a congregation on his side. Politicians are almost required to do this.

REVLyle wrote:
Point 2 - He is a liar.  He lied about Reverend Wright.  In the church for 20 years and said he didn't know what he stood for, RIGHT!!!!

Wright's racist comments were publicly denounced by then candidate Obama several times. Did it ever occur to you that Jeremiah Wright, as an opportunist preacher, used his association with Obama to push his own views?

REVLyle wrote:
He lied about taking money from DC lobbiest.

Really? Do you know why people give money to people? They want something. When you have millions of dollars coming in, are you supposed to know whom every dollar comes from or use it to further the agenda that the people giving you the money agree with you on?

 

REVLyle wrote:
He lied about barely knowing Rezco

So without a doubt, you can call this man a liar. You declare you know without a doubt the extent of his knowledge of Tony Rezco? Even then, does that mean that Obama would engage in racketeering?

Comparative: Because Ted Haggard was W. Bush's spiritual advisor should that mean that Bush bought meth from a gay masseur?

 

REVLyle wrote:
Obama lied about barely knowing Blagojevich

He never said he 'barely knew him'. When the pay-for-play scandal hit, he publicly showed dismay and said that if it was true, he didn't know Blagojevich as well as he thought.

Twist words much?

REVLyle wrote:
He is simply a pathological liar.

AND YOU ARE BEARING FALSE WITNESS!

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 3 - The Nobel prize.  Dude, you really need to cut back on the drugs.  Let me quote to you the opening sentence on the TIME article concerning the peace prize (remember they love him) -

The last thing Barack Obama needed at this moment in his presidency and our politics is a prize for a promise.   Read more: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1929395,00.html#ixzz0WheUtkQC

The article goes on to say . . . By now there are surely more callouses on his lips than his hands . . . and you will love this one . . . But even his fans know that none of the dreams have yet come true, and a prize for even dreaming them can feed the illusion that they have. PBO has done nothing in Israel, nothing in Iraq, nothing about Iran and nothing in Afganistan.  disarmament . . . you have got to be joking.  Who has put down any arms because of Obama?

No other president has laid out the kinds of goals that connect with people on a global basis.

Granted. I would like to have seen them wait, but it's done. Get over it.

Elie Wiesel wrote a book decades after WWII and received a Peace Prize for essentially forgiving the german people, but not forgetting what was done. he gets a peace prize because he forgives?

REVLyle wrote:
Point 4 - He has not closed Gitmo - He has talked about it . . . but the prisoners are still there.

Nobody wants them. Their own countries don't even want them back. Any empty apartments on your block?

REVLyle wrote:
Point 5 - His fictional tales about jobs gained and saved . . . another bunch of lies.  Let me give you just one example, but if you need me to, I can give you plenty more.  Obama's administration stated that they saved 935 jobs at the Southwest Georgia Community Action Council.  GET READY FOR THIS . . . The council only employs 508 people.  Ah yes, our honest president.

You say 'his fictional tales' and then say 'Obama's administration'. Which the fuck is it? Him or Robert Gibbs or someone else??

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 6 - Now I thought you guys hated Bush for domestic spying . . . and Obama was very critical of this issue as well.  BUT NOW, it seems OK with Obama and it seems ok with you guys as well.

It hasn't worked anyway. In case you have been in a cave somewhere, Nidal Malik Hasan was 'spied' upon and they did nothing.

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 7 - I am not sure where to start on Healthcare . . . but I hope you have the money for it, because if you don't you will go to prison - Obama would not even condemn that possibility.  That is not a conservative or liberal issue . . . it is a freedom issue.

You    are    a     dumbfuck.

I posted the section of the bill dealing with taxing uninsured people. DID YOU FUCKING SEE ONE FUCKING PART THAT SAID JAIL IN IT?????? DID YOU EVEN TRY TO READ IT? Did your parents have any other children that lived?

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 8 - He shows no leadership.  Campaigning - A+    Leadership - F

Whatever. He could step out on the podium and do slapstick comedy wearing a Charlie Chaplin costume and come off as more intelligent than you have in this post.

REVLyle wrote:
Let me clarify one point.  I don't believe he is an idiot when it comes to everything in life.  I guess he might be good at law.  But he is an idiot when it comes to running our country, chosing his friends, and economics.  He has certainly proved that.

I know he has only been in office a year . . . but just wait - He will continue to prove he is way over his head.

It hasn't been a year.

He was the best choice. It was the first time I EVER voted in my life because there was actually someone to vote FOR instead of picking the lesser of two evils.

OH! And if you're a 'birther' too, let me remind you that McCain was born in Panama.

 

He was definitely not the best choice we had. The media picked him for us. The American people are to uneducated to think for themselves and rely on TV. The man has done nothing positive for the country and with his idea of economics he's only going to make things worse. He is an eloquent speaker,(when he has a teleprompter) and people were fooled by it. He's a socialist scumbag and he is not my president. And for the whole McCain was born in Panama, uh, he was born in a US territory. Don't get me wrong, I didn't support him either, and I hate defending him because he is a scumbag too, but you can't argue BS with BS.

This administration is as bad as the rest when it comes to completely ignoring the Constitution, and that does not sit well with me. Universal healthcare= unconstitutional. We are witnessing the demise of a once great nation. If something doesn't happen we are going to lose everything, and unfortunately the general public is so apathetic and dependent on the government now that we are nearing the point of no return. 98%. That's the retention rate of our Congress that everybody bitches and moans about, but come election time, vote them right back in. Our citizens have been dumbed down to the point of not even caring that they don't know some of the most important things that effect their lives daily, but they can tell you who won the latest American Idol.

But back to the Obaaama administration, big government and added government programs is not the answer. Anything the government touches, they destroy. Stimulate the economy by printing more money, which in turn is going to devalue the currency? Dumb. Cash for clunkers which cost the tax payers a ton of money, and destroyed perfectly good vehicles that lower middle class people needed, dumb. Raise minimum wage so that small businesses can no longer afford to hire as many people, and in turn raise the unemployment rate, and forcing some business to shut down, which in turn raises the unemployment rate even more, DUMB. Bailing out and nationalizing businesses that are failing because of bad business practices, and forcing the taxpayers, us, our children, and their children to foot the bill,all the while giving their management large bonuses, instead of letting the free market do what it's supposed to do, DUMB. Lying to the public about giving them 5 days to read any bill that crosses his desk, well, that was kind of smart on his part, cuz they fell for it. Keeping us in a "war" on a tactic that can never be won, because you can't fight a war against an idea, and costing us billions, DUMB. Potentially destroying our sovereignty by signing treaties with other nations, DUMB. I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Obama sucks, he is not the Messiah and he doesn't have the answers, he has more problems.

I've enjoyed the last 8 years in the military, but I can't even do that anymore because the government can't get their shit together. Just wait until we end up messing with Iran, then we're in deep shit.

1. President Obama has done nothing positive for the country

2. His idea of economics makes things worse

3. Socialism makes someone a scumbag

4. President Obama's administration ignores the constitution, completely

5. Healthcare is unconstitutional

6. Universal Healthcare will destroy the country

7. Government programs are bad for the country

8. Anything government touches it destroys

9. Printing more money devalues the currency

10. "Cash for clunkers" destroyed cars that lower middle class people needed

11. Raising minimum wage hurts companies

12. Higher minimum wage causes unemployment

13. Higher minimum wage shuts down businesses

14. Baling out and nationalizing businesses are both bad

15. Bailing out and nationalizing businesses gives CEOs large bonuses

16. Free market will prevent this

17. President Obama lied to the public about giving them 5 days to read any bill that crossed his desk

18. President Obama is keeping us in a war that can't be won and that is bad

19. President Obama signing treaties with other nations is bad

20. President Obama is not a messiah and is bad.

 

 

Just so we are clear, these are your talking points?

Well, 1-14, yup

You took, or at least repeated, 15 and 19 out of context, at least the way you have them stated. And as I said, there are plenty more issues, but I don't feel that I need to state them because those 20 are enough. And I hope you don't think that I'm wrong, because I can argue my point on these issues if need be.

Oh, and number 10, isn't just that it destroyed needed vehicles, but that it cost the taxpayers thousand of dollars more than what was given to the people that turned in the cars.


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Big E wrote:

Well, 1-14, yup

You took, or at least repeated, 15 and 19 out of context, at least the way you have them stated. And as I said, there are plenty more issues, but I don't feel that I need to state them because those 20 are enough. And I hope you don't think that I'm wrong, because I can argue my point on these issues if need be.

Oh, and number 10, isn't just that it destroyed needed vehicles, but that it cost the taxpayers thousand of dollars more than what was given to the people that turned in the cars.

 

Could you please clarify 15 and 19 then? Also, I added one more from your paragraphs before you edited it. Please review that one as well. Thanks in advance!

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ClockCat wrote:Big E

ClockCat wrote:

Big E wrote:

Well, 1-14, yup

You took, or at least repeated, 15 and 19 out of context, at least the way you have them stated. And as I said, there are plenty more issues, but I don't feel that I need to state them because those 20 are enough. And I hope you don't think that I'm wrong, because I can argue my point on these issues if need be.

Oh, and number 10, isn't just that it destroyed needed vehicles, but that it cost the taxpayers thousand of dollars more than what was given to the people that turned in the cars.

 

Could you please clarify 15 and 19 then? Also, I added one more from your paragraphs before you edited it. Please review that one as well. Thanks in advance!

Sure, with 15 I wasn't saying that bailing out businesses and nationalizing companies give ceo's bigger bonuses, but it did. They used taxpayer money to bailout these businesses and these companies still gave out millions to top execs.

 


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Sorry for making two

Sorry for making two seperate posts, I forgot what 19 was. I'm not against treaties, but I am against treaties that threaten to end our sovereignty as a nation, such as the Copenhagen Treaty. We are to have no entangling alliances.

I'm in a bit of a rush, I'll go on further in a bit if need be. And I apologise, I'm not sure what the other one was that you wanted a response on.


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Big E wrote:Sorry for making

Big E wrote:

Sorry for making two seperate posts, I forgot what 19 was. I'm not against treaties, but I am against treaties that threaten to end our sovereignty as a nation, such as the Copenhagen Treaty. We are to have no entangling alliances.

I'm in a bit of a rush, I'll go on further in a bit if need be. And I apologise, I'm not sure what the other one was that you wanted a response on.

 

Number 4 on the list I posted above. 

 

Thank you.  Appreciate it, just trying to identify and separate all your talking points.

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In all respect, I'm not

In all respect, I'm not singling out his admin, because really, I'm not sure the last time an administration was bound by the constitution. But, the Patriot act is unconstitutional, as is universal healthcare, the war, nationalization and bailouts with taxpayer funding, the potential attack on the 2nd amendment, the printing of money borrowed from the fed. International aid to Israel, and really any other foreign nation. I'm sure I can think of more, but I think you understand where I'm coming from.

And maybe to help you with seperating my talking points, I'm an ardent Libertarian and Constitutionalist. And a proponent of Austrian economics and the Mises Institute. I think that should make it easier for you to understand where I'm coming from.


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Vastet wrote:
"Point 1 - He tells everyone he is about the little man." And he's done everything he can to get the little man healthcare. His personal donations to charity are irrelevant. "Point 2 - He is a liar. " All politicians are liars. When he lies to cause an illegal war, come back and I might give a shit. "Point 3 - The Nobel prize.  Dude, you really need to cut back on the drugs." "Point 4 - He has not closed Gitmo" Take your own advice and cut down on the drugs. If he hasn't closed Guantanamo by the end of his term, come back and I might give a shit. "Point 5 - His fictional tales about jobs gained and saved " Even if true, standard fare for politicians. Where was your outrage when Bush did it? "Point 6 - Now I thought you guys hated Bush for domestic spying . . ." That was hardly the only reason to hate Bush. But if it pisses you off so much, where were you when Bush IMPLEMENTED it in the first place? Hypocrisy is unbecoming.

Perhaps you need to become familiar with what a "straw man" arguement is.  You used this several times in your post.  Let's take it point by point.

When it comes to healthcare . . . is he really helping the poor?  There is much debate on that.  There is not even a consensus on how many people don't have healthcare because they are poor.  Many do not have it, because they don't want it.  When I was in my 20's, no wife, and no children . . . I did not want health insurance.  I wanted to use my money for other things.  That will no longer be a choice for people.  There are plenty of articles which state that the healthcare reform being proposed will actually hurt the poor.  So, for you to state that Obama wants to help the poor with health care reform . . . are you not also just repeating the Obama party line???  One question that has been asked many times of Obama and congress . . . .Are you ready to put yourself in the system you are proposing for the entire nation???  I have yet to see any volunteers.  They know it is a sham.  It is stealing.  It is forcing people to buy a product.  It is a loss of freedom.  Perhaps you ought to take a look at this:

You may have missed it, as the Obama State-run media sycophants have worked feverishly to suppress it.  One of a handful of media outlets that did publish anything on it (AP) devoted only one paragraph to this extremely important piece of news.  Said paragraph reads: 

WASHINGTON (AP) — A Congressional Budget Office estimate suggests very few Americans under the age of 65 would sign up for health insurance under the much-debated public option. The CBO found that the scaled back government plan in the House version of health care legislation couldn't overtake private insurance, with only about 2 percent of Americans under the age of 65 opting in.

This is important because it completely contradicts what Obama and the White House have been saying for months…and months.  Obama has alternately quoted figures of 47 and 46 millions and, then, 30 millions who are health care uninsured in the US.  Suffice it to say, none of his figures come even remotely close to the truth--and now the Congressional Budget Office (headed and staffed by Obamaites) has confirmed what many of us have known all along.  Note:  As of July 2008, the US population was listed as 304,059,724.  2% of that figure is just over 6 millions--not 47 or even 30!

The CBO also stated that ObamaCare will be far more expensive to the consumer than is private health insurance--thus exposing yet another ObamaLie. 

The full article can be found at: http://www.michnews.com/Sher_Zieve/sz110209.shtml

It is a conservative article, but to act like what you are hearing from CNN and MSNBC is truth . . . well, you might not want to go there.

Point #2 - Straw man argument.  We are not talking about all politicians.  The thread asked about Obama.  He is a liar and other posts on this thread lists these lies far better than I did. 

Point #3 - As I said, even the liberals know that was a joke.  He did not deserve it and he simply got it for being liberal.  Time magazine put him on the cover 27% of the time in 2008, and yet they know that as they put it, his lips have more calluses than his hands.  Of course you did not want to talk about the article.

Point #4 - Yep, it has only been one year.  This goes back to the leadership issue.  It was a great campaign promise and he SAID it was closed on day 2 of being in office I believe . . . and then comes the lack of leadership.  Absolutely no plan and he is simply trying to figure out what to do now. 

Point #5 - Straw man once again.  We are not talking about other politicians.  We are not talking about Bush.  The thread is about Obama.  The job saved and created numbers are inflated.  Let me ask you something.  When did you hear Bush saying . . . "I inherited the Clinton recession and I inherited 9/11 from Clinton?"  This would be right in line with your straw man argument.  Let me quote Democrat Max Baucus (remember, this is one of Obama's democrats):

During a March hearing of the Senate Finance Committee, Chairman Max Baucus challenged Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on the formula.

"You created a situation where you cannot be wrong," said the Montana Democrat. "If the economy loses two million jobs over the next few years, you can say yes, but it would've lost 5.5 million jobs. If we create a million jobs, you can say, well, it would have lost 2.5 million jobs. You've given yourself complete leverage where you cannot be wrong, because you can take any scenario and make yourself look correct."

Point #6 - It didn't piss me off then and it doesn't now.  This was one of the liberal rallying cries and yet they, like you, are silent now.  Of course what do you care . . . you are Canadian.

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You really need to get your head out of the sand

Vastet wrote:
Hmm. Liberals don't give money to charities. Conservatives start illegal wars consuming hundreds of thousands of lives. Yeah, they have sooooo much to offer.

Let's talk about liberals giving to charities first.

Do you know how you can tell what is important to a person???  Look at their checkbook.  After the needs (clothing, food, and shelter) are taken care of . . . people spend money on what is important to them.  Go find a car enthusiast and they will spend money on cars.  God find a fisherman and they will spend money on fishing gear.  God find a hunter and they will spend money on hunting equipment.  So, if Obama and the liberals REALLY care about the poor - why don't their checkbooks demonstrate it?  BECAUSE THEY DO NOT CARE.  If you think Obama's giving is pathetic, just look at Biden's.  The evidence is absolutely overwhelming that it is conservatives who actually to help the poor.  As one other person on this thread put it, the liberals are great at giving my money away for their causes and receiving praise for my sacrifice.  Please wake up.

Ah yes . . . the ole illegal war mantra.  If that is true . . . you have a lot of liberals to go after.  A majority of the Senate democrats voted FOR President Bush to attack Iraq.  Before you now give us the tired argument of "He lied about WMD"  go back, do just a little research (deeper than CNN) and look at what many democrats, who had the same access to intelligence as Bush had and what they said.  For example:

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998 

If you want to read more. . . please go to http://www.rightwingnews.com/quotes/demsonwmds.php

You might think . . . just a bunch of right wing news.  The link only refers to writings of democrats.  No spin at all.  You might recognize some of the name:  Bill and Hilary Clinton, Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, Tom Lantos, Tom Harkin, Arlen Specter,  Sandy Berger, Barbara Boxer, Robert Byrd, AND THE LIST GOES ON.

It was not illegal.  The congress voted on it.  They continued to fund it (INCLUDING OBAMA).  You simply have your head in the sand.

BUT AGAIN . . . Straw man argument.  We are not talking about Bush.  And what do you care . . . you are a Canadian.

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Jormungander wrote:Vastet

Jormungander wrote:

Vastet wrote:
And he's done everything he can to get the little man healthcare. His personal donations to charity are irrelevant.

I have noticed a phenomena in the US in which liberals are extremely generous with other people's money while simultaneously refusing to donate any of their own. I think it is valid to point out that Obama is 100% dedicated to helping out the poor so long as others are paying for it and he is about 1% dedicated (jumps to 6% right before the election to give an insincere impression of charitable actions) so long as he is paying for it. In terms of charitableness (% income given to charity) self identified conservatives FAR exceed self identified liberals. So in that sense Obama is quite like his liberal base of supports in his unwillingness to give. Unless by 'give' you really mean 'tax others to subsidise programs that boost my likelihood of re-election and also maybe coincidentally help some poor people.'

100% agree.  Great post

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Vastet wrote:And he's done

Vastet wrote:
And he's done everything he can to get the little man healthcare. His personal donations to charity are irrelevant.

And done nothing to get the "little man" to stop viewing himself as a "little man". So he's convinced millions of people their only hope is to rely on government handouts for the rest of their lives. So the "little man" thinks he can never get enough money or be smart enough to buy his own healthcare.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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"Perhaps you need to become

"Perhaps you need to become familiar with what a "straw man" arguement is."

Nope. Perhaps you need to familiarise yourself with what hypocrisy is. You used it several times in your argument.

"When it comes to healthcare . . . is he really helping the poor?  There is much debate on that.  There is not even a consensus on how many people don't have healthcare because they are poor."

So in other words you can't defend your arguments, let alone attack mine.

"Are you ready to put yourself in the system you are proposing for the entire nation???"

Considering that it is a national system, implementing it is subjecting themselves to it.

"The full article can be found at: http://www.michnews.com/Sher_Zieve/sz110209.shtml"

Conservative lies. Many links have been provided to EXC proving it, in this thread: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18744 and this thread: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18234.
Feel free to ignore reality as he has, but realise I'll not fall for your lies.

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"Point #2 - Straw man

"Point #2 - Straw man argument.  We are not talking about all politicians."

Strawman not detected. Obama is a politician. All politicians lie. Proving he has lied is irrelevant.

"Point #3 - As I said, even the liberals know that was a joke. "

Proof is to the contrary. Your opinion is irrelevant.

"Point #4 - Yep, it has only been one year."

Your argument was addressed. Ignoring it does not constitute a rebuttal or refutation.

"Point #5 - Straw man once again."

Clearly you don't know what a strawman is, and again you can provide only hypocrisy.

"Point #6 - It didn't piss me off then and it doesn't now."

Then you have no argument.

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"Let's talk about liberals

"Let's talk about liberals giving to charities first."

No, lets talk about Conservatives making shit up to attack foreign nations illegally first.

Total American Deaths In Iraq:
Since war began (3/19/03)(Total American Deaths): 4362
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03) (the list)4223
Since Capture of Saddam (12/13/03):3899
Since Handover (6/29/04):3503
Since Obama Inauguration (1/20/09):134

Official Estimated Total Wounded:31557
http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/

Documented Civillian Deaths: 94,049 – 102,624
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

And you think I'm going to care whether or not he gave money to charity so he could save on his taxes? Lol.

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Vastet wrote:"Perhaps you

Vastet wrote:
"Perhaps you need to become familiar with what a "straw man" arguement is." Nope. Perhaps you need to familiarise yourself with what hypocrisy is. You used it several times in your argument. "When it comes to healthcare . . . is he really helping the poor?  There is much debate on that.  There is not even a consensus on how many people don't have healthcare because they are poor." So in other words you can't defend your arguments, let alone attack mine. "Are you ready to put yourself in the system you are proposing for the entire nation???" Considering that it is a national system, implementing it is subjecting themselves to it. "The full article can be found at: http://www.michnews.com/Sher_Zieve/sz110209.shtml" Conservative lies. Many links have been provided to EXC proving it, in this thread: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18744 and this thread: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18234. Feel free to ignore reality as he has, but realise I'll not fall for your lies.

This thread is not about PBO vs. Bush.  This thread is not about PBO vs. other politicians.  This is about why people do not like Obama.  All you have provided is . . . He is like other politicians???  That is a straw man.  He is not like Bush . . . that is straw man.  If you want to start those threads . . . go ahead.  I am not here to defend Bush and I am not here to defend the other thousands of politicians.  The question was about PBO. 

SOOOOOOO, the CBO are a bunch of liars?????  Again, you really need to cut back on the drugs.

You are laughable.  You give me links to threads on this site as your proof.  Unreal.  At least I got a good laugh.  I didn't paste the entire article because I knew you would say it was just biased information.  That is why I only pasted the CBO report (plus two sentences for context)  The rest is all CBO.

You truly are ignorant.  The congress WILL NOT be subject to national healthcare.  Again, what do you know about our government . . . you are a Canadian.

Time to grow up and face the music . . . PBO is a liar.

 

You accuse me of hypocrisy . . . and yet you wrote nothing????  interesting.

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"This thread is not about

"This thread is not about PBO vs. Bush.  This thread is not about PBO vs. other politicians.  This is about why people do not like Obama.  All you have provided is . . . He is like other politicians???  That is a straw man."

No, your argument is a strawman. Saying you don't like him because he lies is not a valid argument unless you don't like ANY politician. In which case you acknowledge that all politicians lie. It is also hypocrisy, to add insult to injury.

"SOOOOOOO, the CBO are a bunch of liars?????  Again, you really need to cut back on the drugs."

That's the best you can do? Take your own advice.

"You are laughable.  You give me links to threads on this site as your proof. "

A demonstration of your incapability to read basic English. I said links WITHIN those threads are evidence of your lies, not the threads themselves. You really are a clueless ignoramus. Sad and pathetic that it takes so little effort to prove it.

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Vastet wrote:"Let's talk

Vastet wrote:
"Let's talk about liberals giving to charities first." No, lets talk about Conservatives making shit up to attack foreign nations illegally first. Total American Deaths In Iraq: Since war began (3/19/03)(Total American Deaths): 4362 Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03) (the list)4223 Since Capture of Saddam (12/13/03):3899 Since Handover (6/29/04):3503 Since Obama Inauguration (1/20/09):134 Official Estimated Total Wounded:31557 http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/ Documented Civillian Deaths: 94,049 – 102,624 http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ And you think I'm going to care whether or not he gave money to charity so he could save on his taxes? Lol.

I thought you guys keep reminding me he has only been in their one year????  You are going to compare 8 years and two invasions to 1 year of PBO.  YIKES.

Just curious, has Obama had to take even one more square yard of real-estate since he has been in office.  Kind of a stretch to compare the defeat of Sadaam H. and the invasion of Afghanistan as opposed to Obama sitting on his thumbs.  Kind of apples to oranges.  Let's do another comparison.  2008 under George Bush in Afghanistan and 2009 under PBO.  There has been no surge and Obama has made no decision in months . . . What do you think the results are there . . . come on . . . you know the answer.

2008 - US casualties 155

2009 - US casualties 288 (almost double)

Dude, you are too easy.

You make it look like we have had over 16,000 deaths in Iraq.  The truth is that in 9 years we have had a total of 4,279 US troops die.  No doubt, a tough loss.  My brother was injured in Iraq.  What is amazing is the PBO wants to blame ALL on Bush (As do you) and yet it was Obama who voted against the surge which created the current low casulty count now.  OK, maybe you should cut back on the alcohol as well. 

You evidently failed to look at all the liberals who were "making stuff up"  when it comes to "illegal war."  The truth is sometimes hard to face.

Did you forget or just refuse to write that July was the bloodiest month for our Soldiers in Afghanistan . . . wait . . . NO, it was September . . . Just give Obama a chance . . . he can even do better in the months ahead.

In no way shape or form am I making light of those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice for my country (it certainly isn't this Canadian's).  This guy is simply wrong and PBO is certainly no Commander-in-Chief.  My tone is simply to expose the lies that PBO has told and Vastet believes.

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"I thought you guys keep

"I thought you guys keep reminding me he has only been in their one year????  You are going to compare 8 years and two invasions to 1 year of PBO.  YIKES."

Another demonstration of your incapability to comprehend basic English. Look at the dates given, oh foolish one. Also, these are Iraq's figures, and Iraq's figures alone.

"You make it look like we have had over 16,000 deaths in Iraq."

Yet another demonstration of your incapability to comprehend basic English. You're making this FAR too easy.

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Vastet wrote:"I thought you

Vastet wrote:
"I thought you guys keep reminding me he has only been in their one year????  You are going to compare 8 years and two invasions to 1 year of PBO.  YIKES." Another demonstration of your incapability to comprehend basic English. Look at the dates given, oh foolish one. Also, these are Iraq's figures, and Iraq's figures alone. "You make it look like we have had over 16,000 deaths in Iraq." Yet another demonstration of your incapability to comprehend basic English. You're making this FAR too easy.

I am aware that you are writing about Iraq.

Bush took all the heat for making the decision to implement the surge and PBO voted against it.  Now you want to give PBO the credit . . . I don't think so.

Why you are at it - Perhaps it is because of PBO that we have not had any troops killed by Nazis

Let me help you out a little more.  A quote from your hero:
Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama said Thursday that the escalation of U.S. troops in Iraq, which he had opposed, has succeeded in reducing violence "beyond our wildest dreams."

By the way . . . the story is from that right wing news group, MSNBC.

You're and idiot and a waste of my time.

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"Bush took all the heat for

"Bush took all the heat for making the decision to implement the surge and PBO voted against it.  Now you want to give PBO the credit . . . I don't think so."

Bullshit. Those figures were to show the death toll, and only the death toll. Then you go into damage control and try to read something I never said, which is a strawman.

You're a complete moron and a waste of my time.

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Big E wrote:... the

Big E wrote:

... the potential attack on the 2nd amendment,

 

   One of the most important amendments and also one which pertains to the rights of individuals

   See Supreme Court's most recent decision "District Of Columbia vs Heller"

 

http://theatheistconservative.com/

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Vastet wrote:"Bush took all

Vastet wrote:
"Bush took all the heat for making the decision to implement the surge and PBO voted against it.  Now you want to give PBO the credit . . . I don't think so." Bullshit. Those figures were to show the death toll, and only the death toll. Then you go into damage control and try to read something I never said, which is a strawman. You're a complete moron and a waste of my time.

Soooo, you are suggesting that because of PBO's leadership, fewer soldiers have been killed this year in Iraq????  I don't recall PBO nor anyone in his administration even proposing such a thing.

Why would you show how many have been killed under Bush Presidency vs. Obama.  That is pointless.  Obama has not invaded 2 countries.  He did not have to tople a regeme.  It is like comparing apples to oranges.  This thread is not about Bush, but let me say this.  I do not believe he handled the war right at all times.  I don't think that we completely understood what we were getting oursleves into.  I also do not believe he lied in order to go to war.  MANY, MANY liberals also thought that Sadaam had WMD's.  I gave you quite a list and a website where you could easily see what liberals thought concerning that issue.  Of course you refuse to go look at the site.

You must have a very short memory when it comes to the Iraqi surge.  If it would have failed . . . All of you would have been blaming Bush.  BUT IT WORKED and even Obama admits it.  Let me remind you of a few issues concerning the surge.  This is easy to find.  I will just give you the highlights.

January 5, 2007: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi sent a letter to Bush stating, “Surging forces is a strategy that you have already tried and that has already failed. Like many current and former military leaders, we believe that trying again would be a serious mistake.”

February 16, 2007: The House of Representatives passes a resolution opposing Bush’s troop surge by a vote of 246-182, marking the first time in four years that Congress has voted decisively against Bush’s Iraq policy.

April 19, 2007: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid declares Iraq war “is lost.”  He later says. “As long as we follow the President’s path in Iraq, the war is lost. But there is still a chance to change course — and we must change course.” (READ CAREFULLY . . . WHO'S PLAN)

June 13, 2007: Top US congressional Democrats tell President George W. Bush that his Iraq troop "surge" policy was a failure.

November 28, 2007: Presidential candidate Joe Biden (D-DE) states his view on the troop surge, “This whole notion that the surge is working is fantasy."

Again, NOW, even PBO states it was a success.  Everyone knows it was.  As you can see Pres. Bush had many against him.  He stood his ground and he was right.  Even if you think he was wrong about everything else . . . he was right about the surge and he was out on a limb.  PBO is now president in the post surge Iraqi war and he is reaping the benefits of the low troop deaths because of the surge.

If you wanted to gripe about Bush . . . you are about 1 or 2 years too late.  I was told to get over Obama winning the Nobel, get over it.  Bush was president for 8 years.  It is done.

Even if you hate bush and everything he did . . . PBO is still a liar, a poor economist, and a horrible leader.  The thread is not about Bush . . . it is about PBO.

 

 

 

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"Soooo, you are suggesting

"Soooo, you are suggesting that because of PBO's leadership, fewer soldiers have been killed this year in Iraq????"

Oh look! A strawman! AND the fourth demonstration of a lack of simple English comprehension in a row! Care to go for 5?

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Stand up Barrack!!

I think that he needs to show that he's still got a pair! He has been way too soft on the republicans. He tried to reach out to them and they bit his hand, Now he just needs to push his agendas without their support. I do like the fact that he rejected all the ideas on the table about Afganistan. He didn't like any of them. That at least shows me that he isn't just going with whatever they tell him to unlike our last idiot did. He has also upset me with the fact that he didn't let the investigation of Bush-Cheney go on. He shut that down and said that we shouldn't look to the past but the future. He who doesn't learn from the past is doomed to repeat it.. Those two (Bush-Cheney) are the biggest tyrants that this country has ever seen and they get to get away with it.. That's a shame.. Another thing is that he hasn't fought for human rights (gay rights) like he promised. I'm not gay myself but i could care less if they wanted to get married. They should have the right to be miserable like the rest of us. He also hasn't stepped up on shutting down lobbyists like he said that he would. He changed his position on that as soon as he knew he was going to win and that stinks.. Even though all of these things are wrong, I still think that he has a chance to make history with this admistration if he just does half of what he said he was going to do. The problem is that you have all these right-wingers that won't let him move and he has a mess that's possibly the biggest in our nations history to clean up. I'm so sick of all politians that I don't know what to do. I vote but that does very little where I live. This state is Red as blood and the people here are for the most part ignorant of everything except for what they hear on "Rush" and that's sad. Their blind faith is resentable and it really makes me feel like we the "free-thinkers" are the definite minority.

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Malhalla wrote:I think that

Malhalla wrote:

I think that he needs to show that he's still got a pair! He has been way too soft on the republicans. He tried to reach out to them and they bit his hand, Now he just needs to push his agendas without their support. I do like the fact that he rejected all the ideas on the table about Afganistan. He didn't like any of them. That at least shows me that he isn't just going with whatever they tell him to unlike our last idiot did. He has also upset me with the fact that he didn't let the investigation of Bush-Cheney go on. He shut that down and said that we shouldn't look to the past but the future. He who doesn't learn from the past is doomed to repeat it.. Those two (Bush-Cheney) are the biggest tyrants that this country has ever seen and they get to get away with it.. That's a shame.. Another thing is that he hasn't fought for human rights (gay rights) like he promised. I'm not gay myself but i could care less if they wanted to get married. They should have the right to be miserable like the rest of us. He also hasn't stepped up on shutting down lobbyists like he said that he would. He changed his position on that as soon as he knew he was going to win and that stinks.. Even though all of these things are wrong, I still think that he has a chance to make history with this admistration if he just does half of what he said he was going to do. The problem is that you have all these right-wingers that won't let him move and he has a mess that's possibly the biggest in our nations history to clean up. I'm so sick of all politians that I don't know what to do. I vote but that does very little where I live. This state is Red as blood and the people here are for the most part ignorant of everything except for what they hear on "Rush" and that's sad. Their blind faith is resentable and it really makes me feel like we the "free-thinkers" are the definite minority.

Gosh Vastet, it appears that Obama said he would do some things and he hasn't done them . . . that kind of sounds like a liar.  Go figure.

See, you can't blame Republicans.  Oh, don't get me wrong they oppose him, but they have no power.  They cannot even filibuster.  He has got the majority in both houses.  Bush never had it so good.  PBO can pass everything and anything, IF all the democrats are with him.  Let's don't distort the facts.  I think the problem is lack of leadership when it comes to PBO . . . seems like I have already talked about that.  The Democrats also talked about that.  They were disappointed at his LACK OF LEADERSHIP when it came to the healthcare bill.  Vastet has a learning disability, so this is extremely hard for him to comprehend.  When you are in darkness all the time, the light of truth is quite blinding.

Just curious . . . when did PBO reach out to the Republicans?  When was the last time they were invited to the white house to express their ideas on healthcare.  According to John Boehner - the GOP was not invited to the white house to discuss healthcare since the end of April.  How is that reaching out????  Were they behind close doors when it was being crafted . . . wait a minute, I thought PBO said it would be public, everyone will have a seat at the table, and it would be on CSPAN . . . that guy just can't tell the truth.  Well, at least the bill will be put online for 5 days for all to see before he signs it . . . wait, I don't think he has done that either . . . WHAT, another lie???? 

I agree with your "if we don't learn from the past, we are doomed to repeat it."  We did not learn from our experience from Carter . . . and here we are again. . . doomed.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


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"Gosh Vastet, it appears

"Gosh Vastet, it appears that Obama said he would do some things and he hasn't done them . . . that kind of sounds like a liar.  Go figure."

Gee REVLyle, I've said all politicians are liars at least 3 times now. How much does it take to get such a simple concept through that thick and empty skull of yours anyway?
Note: That's 5. Heading for 6 in 5... 4... 3...

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REVLyle wrote: Let me help

REVLyle wrote:

 

Let me help you out a little more.  A quote from your hero:
Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama said Thursday that the escalation of U.S. troops in Iraq, which he had opposed, has succeeded in reducing violence "beyond our wildest dreams."

 

Have you never been wrong about anything in your life?

And so what if the surge worked? Iraq is still entirely the fault of the Bush administration. And as far as Iraq and Afghanistan goes, I want the President to take all the time he needs to make the right decision as to how they will end.

It's simultaneously sad and hilarious how these debates rage. Not one of us here is smart enough to be able to solve any of these issues. If the solutions were obvious, they would have been implemented by now.

The economy? Fucking complicated.

International relations? Fucking complicated.

Wars? Fucking complicated.

The environment? Fucking complicated.

Healthcare reform? Fucking complicated.

See where I'm going with this? Obama's got lots of people working on these things, and I'd like him to carefully weigh all the options before making decisions. Do I expect some mistakes will be made? Yes. But do I trust this president? Yes. Judge not...

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Sure I have made mistakes

When I listed why I didn't like Obama . . . one of my points was that he had lied because said he would close gitmo and he hadn't.

Vastet responded . . . If he hasn't closed Guantanamo by the end of his term, come back and I might give a shit.

My response . . . Point #4 - Yep, it has only been one year.  This goes back to the leadership issue.  It was a great campaign promise and he SAID it was closed on day 2 of being in office I believe . . . and then comes the lack of leadership.  Absolutely no plan and he is simply trying to figure out what to do now.

I conceded the point . . . he has not had time, but it is again because of leadership.

I have backed up everything I have stated with facts or supporting opinions from others on the internet.  I am certainly not alone when it comes to not trusting PBO.  I know why I believe what I believe.

I do believe there is just a little clarification needed.  I do not believe it is a lie when a politician says I will get "A" done and yet another party opposes him and he cannot get "A" accomplished.  If he tried, and he simply did not have the backing to get it done . . . that is not a lie.  That is no different than an athlete saying he or she is going to win a game, but the opponent was just better.

It is a lie when a politician says he will do "A" or he stands for "A" and then when he gets into office - he simply drops what he said now that he is in power.  A great example when it comes to PBO was that he said he would put every non-emergency bill online for 5 days for the public to see it before he signs it.  He has not done that.  That is a lie.  No one could stop him or oppose him in that endeavor.  He has done that with many things.  Again, I can list those if you would like.

The thread asked the question why people do not like PBO.  That is one of the reasons I do not like him along with the others I listed.  Vastet wanted to talk about Bush over and over again.  The thread has nothing to do with Bush.  My mistake on this thread was to even discuss Bush.  It is certainly a straw man argument. (Look, I admitted another mistake)

Lastly, you asked, "Have you never been wrong about anything in your life?" 

Well, first of all I am a Christian, which requires that I admit that I am a sinner.  I sin every day . . . the answer to your question is absolutely yes . . . I am wrong all the time.  I simply was not wrong about these issues regarding PBO (minus the one I admitted . . . we will see if he actually gets it done - gitmo)

Let me ask you something . . . Why didn't you ask Vastet the same thing?  Could it be that it was simply he did not have "Theist" next to his name.  I did not see him admit he was wrong on anything.  He talks a lot of trash, but the best he could do was list deaths in the military and internet references back to the RRS.  Could it be that because you like Obama and therefore you cannot admit that he has failed, lied, etc . . .    Just curious.

I always find it entertaining when people begin to quote the Bible and they don't even believe in it.  Matthew 7:1 - Perhaps 1 of the top 10 misused passages by atheists and theists alike.  If you think for a moment that Matthew 7:1 means that people cannot look at facts and come to a conclusion about who is trustworthy or not . . . you are sadly mistaken. 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


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REVLyle, I apologize. I

REVLyle, I apologize. I forgot about your disability causing you to be a dumbfuck.

REVLyle wrote:
...Well, first of all I am a Christian, which requires that I admit that I am a sinner.  I sin every day . . . the answer to your question is absolutely yes . . . I am wrong all the time. ...

You forgot several points that you were shown to be wrong regarding.

For starters, Jail time for uninsured.

 

I responded to you twice and you chose to ignore my answers. They're still there.

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It's no mystery why there is

It's no mystery why there is so much anti-Obama sentiment and why his approval rating is going down faster than a Thai hooker.  People didn't hate the Bush administration because of the cut of their suits, they hated the Bush administration for their policies. Policies that the Obama administration has continued. If one was ethically opposed to indefinite preventive detention 18 months ago then they are probably still opposed to it after the Washington Post reported "Obama Endorses Indefinite Detention Without Trial for Some".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/21/AR2009052104045.html

It's further insulting to many when a politician takes one position on an issue to gain their confidence and support then reverses it after being elected. For example Obama said that he was opposed to presidential signing statements because they violate the US constitution, which is a principled stance and perhaps even true. But then he issued signing statements anyway. So a person who cared about that issue or just held public servants to a standard of not committing blatant fraud likely wouldn't and probably shouldn't like Obama.

He's made so many of those types of reversals that I think most Americans who have felt disaffected in the last eight years and have read a newspaper in the last eight months have some complaints or grievances. It would be nearly impossible not to.  

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As rev has been reduced to

As rev has been reduced to preaching to himself in a corner, there's currently nothing more to say. I'll keep an eye open though. Smiling

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I never liked Obama or

I never liked Obama or Biden. I winced at their nomination. But they seemed to be less idiotic than McCain and Palin.

 

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Gauche wrote:It's further

Gauche wrote:



It's further insulting to many when a politician takes one position on an issue to gain their confidence and support then reverses it after being elected.

Nothing shocking there. It's Presidential Campaigning 101. If presidential candidates were forced to tell the absolute truth during their campaigns, nobody would ever get elected.

And even if they campaign with a certain promise, they may find that they can't keep that promise based on what they find once they walk in the door. It's kind of like a job interview - you may tell a potential employer that you can and will do certain things if you get the job, but you don't necessarily know what's going on for sure with the company until you're on the payroll.

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I didn't say it was

I didn't say it was shocking, I said it was insulting. At any rate that's not a defense of constitutional or human-rights violations.
Your responses are somewhat redolent of those of a dupe or jilted lover who wishes to retain a modicum of dignity after the fact. If you really though that constitutional or human-rights violations were necessary you would've supported a person in favor of them. I think that's at least as obvious as the fact that politicians keep some of their campaign promises and break some of them.

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Big E wrote:He's a socialist

Big E wrote:

He's a socialist scumbag and he is not my president.

i've said it before and i guess i need to say it again:

if only...

no, seriously, there's almost nothing substantially socialist about obama, and i sure as shit wish there were.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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iwbiek wrote:i've said it

iwbiek wrote:

i've said it before and i guess i need to say it again:

if only...

no, seriously, there's almost nothing substantially socialist about obama, and i sure as shit wish there were.

"Government control of the economy" is the definition of socialism being used. Using that definition Obama is a socialist because he wants to expand government control and influence even further into the economy.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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Gauche wrote:I didn't say it

Gauche wrote:

I didn't say it was shocking, I said it was insulting. At any rate that's not a defense of constitutional or human-rights violations.
Your responses are somewhat redolent of those of a dupe or jilted lover who wishes to retain a modicum of dignity after the fact. If you really though that constitutional or human-rights violations were necessary you would've supported a person in favor of them. I think that's at least as obvious as the fact that politicians keep some of their campaign promises and break some of them.

Or maybe closing Guantanamo is simply harder than he thought it would be.

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geirj wrote:Or maybe closing

geirj wrote:

Or maybe closing Guantanamo is simply harder than he thought it would be.

Yeah, lots of things may be. I can concede at least that much. Maybe the Obama administration will dream up a "fair" system of indefinite preventive detention. Maybe the US will become the only advanced nation on the planet that justly locks people in prison for what they might do if released. I'm not optimistic about that.

And as the Obama administration fails to make even the symbolic gesture of closing Guantanamo bay, Bagram prison in Afghanistan remains open where not only do the people have zero rights but several whistle blowers have come forward with accusations of extreme acts of abuse and torture up to and including rape and murder.

I suppose that I am now to believe that since Obama became president that they no longer torture the inmates but instead perform lavish Broadway shows for them. Well, I have doubts that they are performing lavish Broadway shows but as you say, maybe.

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


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Jormungander wrote:iwbiek

Jormungander wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

i've said it before and i guess i need to say it again:

if only...

no, seriously, there's almost nothing substantially socialist about obama, and i sure as shit wish there were.

"Government control of the economy" is the definition of socialism being used. Using that definition Obama is a socialist because he wants to expand government control and influence even further into the economy.

anything obama does will be largely superficial, just like clinton.  i would make a wager on it.  it always amounts to throwing a few bones which are later taken back anyway. 

the current two-party system is a farce that was developed, along with the help of big business-friendly union bosses like samuel gompers, to keep a lid on the increasing danger of an american socialist revolution in the early 20th century. 

it still exists today in order to maintain the status quo against those who would like to move toward a european-style social state (which is definitely not a socialist state).  obama appears to be tip-toeing in that direction, but i would be very surprised if any significant change comes about.  a few paltry, watered-down, half-hearted attempts at healthcare reform are hardly "change." 

i'll believe in "change" when, say, a latin american country nationalizes a few US investments and obama says they have every right to do so.  bush, of course, would spout and splutter and angrily send in the marines to "liberate" the place.  obama, like clinton, would do basically the same thing, only more intelligently: he would send in a few CIA operatives to train a domestic reactionary force which would quietly take care of the whole nasty leftist business without even troubling mr. cleever back home with so much as a 50-word blurb on page 8 of his morning paper.  THAT'S the difference between democrats and republicans.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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aiia wrote:I never liked

aiia wrote:

I never liked Obama or Biden. I winced at their nomination. But they seemed to be less idiotic than McCain and Palin.

 

 

And here is one of the biggest problems with our system, or the media really. People seem to think that there are only 2 party choices, and until they realize there are other options, and the media shares that information, we'll be stuck playing this lesser of 2 evils game and essentially voting for the one head of the same 2 headed creature. Being a member of a third party, I hear the argument all the time that third parties don't stand a chance and blah blah blah defeatest blah. Well, if people don't change their attitudes we'll never make a change.


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darth_josh wrote:REVLyle, I

darth_josh wrote:

REVLyle, I apologize. I forgot about your disability causing you to be a dumbfuck.

REVLyle wrote:
...Well, first of all I am a Christian, which requires that I admit that I am a sinner.  I sin every day . . . the answer to your question is absolutely yes . . . I am wrong all the time. ...

You forgot several points that you were shown to be wrong regarding.

For starters, Jail time for uninsured.

 

I responded to you twice and you chose to ignore my answers. They're still there.

I read through your post.  I, in no way, pretend to be a lawyer.  Perhaps you could read through this.

PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail JCT Confirms Failure to Comply with Democrats’ Mandate Can Lead to 5 Years in Jail Friday, November 06, 2009
 

Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail.  The JCT letter  makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

In response to the JCT letter, Camp said:  “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail.  It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”

Key excerpts from the JCT letter appear below:

H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]
                                                         - - - - - - - - - -                                                   

If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]

                                                         - - - - - - - - - -    
                                                

Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses.  Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties.  The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

“The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration.  Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates.  Fortunately, Republicans have an alternative that will lower health insurance costs without raising taxes or cutting Medicare,” said Camp.

According to the Congressional Budget Office the lowest cost family non-group plan under the Speaker’s bill would cost $15,000 in 2016.

So, this is from the Joint Committee on Taxation, but hey . . . what do they know.  You might also want to watch this video in which Nancy P. is asked point blank about this issue and at no point does she deny it or even act shocked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ktMQnuRcE

Apology accepted . . .

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


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" felony willful evasion is

" felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years"

Those who dissent on this matter are going to feel the gentle ministrations of MiniLuv. But seriously, this is extremely draconian. And since willful evasion is a felony, you will lose a lot of rights if you are convicted. No voting, no gun ownership, loss of job elegibility, ect. What an extreme punishement for refusing to follow a corporatist law. I thought that the neocons were the corporatists and that the dems hated that. I could have sworn that the dems were infuriated by Bush's corporatism. Maybe they only hate it when the other party is doing it. Are the dems the new corporate sellouts that will write laws that funnel our money into the hands of politically well-connected companies? I can't imagine this as anything but a huge giveaway to the health insurance corporations that donated so generously to politicians' campaigns.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


REVLyle
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You called me out

darth_josh wrote:

REVLyle, I apologize. I forgot about your disability causing you to be a dumbfuck.

REVLyle wrote:
...Well, first of all I am a Christian, which requires that I admit that I am a sinner.  I sin every day . . . the answer to your question is absolutely yes . . . I am wrong all the time. ...

You forgot several points that you were shown to be wrong regarding.

For starters, Jail time for uninsured.

 

I responded to you twice and you chose to ignore my answers. They're still there.

You know, you called me out . . . called me names . . . where are you Darth????

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


darth_josh
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REVLyle wrote:darth_josh

REVLyle wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

REVLyle, I apologize. I forgot about your disability causing you to be a dumbfuck.

REVLyle wrote:
...Well, first of all I am a Christian, which requires that I admit that I am a sinner.  I sin every day . . . the answer to your question is absolutely yes . . . I am wrong all the time. ...

You forgot several points that you were shown to be wrong regarding.

For starters, Jail time for uninsured.

 

I responded to you twice and you chose to ignore my answers. They're still there.

You know, you called me out . . . called me names . . . where are you Darth????

 

No. I gave you an appropriate label, dumbfuck.

Periodic stuff gets dealt with periodically.

 

Did you read the letter? No.

Did Camp read the letter? Yes. He just chose to omit part of the letter because it did not fit into his attack.

Incidentally, CAMP IS ON THE JCT!

Conveniently skipping over an entire section to make it look like it was talking about the health tax when in fact it was talking about TAXES IN GENERAL!!!!!!

It's talking about willfully refusing to pay ANY taxes not just healthcare taxes.

READ THE FUCKING LETTER IN ITS ENTIRETY. It skips an entire section by the paraphrasing you have copy/pasted from whatever source.

QUIT BEARING FALSE WITNESS. Or at least stop parroting it.

At least try to be a better self-professed christian because in my value judgment YOU SUCK!

Now, I don't want apologies. I want answers/responses to the other 15 things you were wrong about.

Where did you get that misinformation?

At least now I know where you got this crazy stuff.

 

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REVLyle
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darth_josh wrote:REVLyle

darth_josh wrote:

REVLyle wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

REVLyle, I apologize. I forgot about your disability causing you to be a dumbfuck.

REVLyle wrote:
...Well, first of all I am a Christian, which requires that I admit that I am a sinner.  I sin every day . . . the answer to your question is absolutely yes . . . I am wrong all the time. ...

You forgot several points that you were shown to be wrong regarding.

For starters, Jail time for uninsured.

 

I responded to you twice and you chose to ignore my answers. They're still there.

You know, you called me out . . . called me names . . . where are you Darth????

 

No. I gave you an appropriate label, dumbfuck.

Periodic stuff gets dealt with periodically.

 

Did you read the letter? No.

Did Camp read the letter? Yes. He just chose to omit part of the letter because it did not fit into his attack.

Incidentally, CAMP IS ON THE JCT!

Conveniently skipping over an entire section to make it look like it was talking about the health tax when in fact it was talking about TAXES IN GENERAL!!!!!!

It's talking about willfully refusing to pay ANY taxes not just healthcare taxes.

READ THE FUCKING LETTER IN ITS ENTIRETY. It skips an entire section by the paraphrasing you have copy/pasted from whatever source.

QUIT BEARING FALSE WITNESS. Or at least stop parroting it.

At least try to be a better self-professed christian because in my value judgment YOU SUCK!

Now, I don't want apologies. I want answers/responses to the other 15 things you were wrong about.

Where did you get that misinformation?

At least now I know where you got this crazy stuff.

 

The problem with your logic or lack thereof:

Congress just passed a church bill that mandates that you must pay 3% of your income to the local church.  If you do not pay that 3%, you will go to jail.

According to you, you simply go to jail because of the tax law, not the church bill.  The bill forcing you to pay to the church has nothing to do with your jail time????  Darth, that is quite a stretch even for a contortionist.

If you were correct in your logic . . . and you are not . . . then simply change the tax law, but of course that is not the problem . . . the problem is the Healthcare bill.

Am I right about that . . . well, according to the Senate – I am.  You know, the group controlled by democrats, they have put language in their healthcare bill, not the tax law, that shields people from this penalty . . . AND AGAIN FOR YOU DARTH . . . WITHIN THE HEALTHCARE BILL.

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties.  The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

You want to know where I get this stuff.  Evidently you were too lazy to follow the link showing Pelosi not even batting an eye when asked about the healthcare bill and jail time.  Even she did not attempt to say . . . “That is just the tax law.”  If you would like, I can give you a link where Obama is asked about this as well. 

I have yet to lie during my post concerning Obama.

 

As far as your value judgment . . . I think we have proved that your judgment has no value.  My Christianity has nothing to do with your judgment, but rather with my standing before Christ.

 

There is no reason for me to answer the other 15 things until you recognize your error concerning this one.  Why would I waste my time?  This is one issue that is so clear.  Darth, there are many here who certainly do not agree with me concerning Christianity, but you look very unintelligent arguing a point that not even the authors of the bill would agree with or have even proposed.  Just admit . . . the House healthcare bill does have a provision in it to punish people with jail time if they do not pay the BILL’S (that is a possessive) mandate tax.

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


ClockCat
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:3

REVLyle wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

REVLyle wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

REVLyle, I apologize. I forgot about your disability causing you to be a dumbfuck.

REVLyle wrote:
...Well, first of all I am a Christian, which requires that I admit that I am a sinner.  I sin every day . . . the answer to your question is absolutely yes . . . I am wrong all the time. ...

You forgot several points that you were shown to be wrong regarding.

For starters, Jail time for uninsured.

 

I responded to you twice and you chose to ignore my answers. They're still there.

You know, you called me out . . . called me names . . . where are you Darth????

 

No. I gave you an appropriate label, dumbfuck.

Periodic stuff gets dealt with periodically.

 

Did you read the letter? No.

Did Camp read the letter? Yes. He just chose to omit part of the letter because it did not fit into his attack.

Incidentally, CAMP IS ON THE JCT!

Conveniently skipping over an entire section to make it look like it was talking about the health tax when in fact it was talking about TAXES IN GENERAL!!!!!!

It's talking about willfully refusing to pay ANY taxes not just healthcare taxes.

READ THE FUCKING LETTER IN ITS ENTIRETY. It skips an entire section by the paraphrasing you have copy/pasted from whatever source.

QUIT BEARING FALSE WITNESS. Or at least stop parroting it.

At least try to be a better self-professed christian because in my value judgment YOU SUCK!

Now, I don't want apologies. I want answers/responses to the other 15 things you were wrong about.

Where did you get that misinformation?

At least now I know where you got this crazy stuff.

 

The problem with your logic or lack thereof:

Congress just passed a church bill that mandates that you must pay 3% of your income to the local church.  If you do not pay that 3%, you will go to jail.

According to you, you simply go to jail because of the tax law, not the church bill.  The bill forcing you to pay to the church has nothing to do with your jail time????  Darth, that is quite a stretch even for a contortionist.

If you were correct in your logic . . . and you are not . . . then simply change the tax law, but of course that is not the problem . . . the problem is the Healthcare bill.

Am I right about that . . . well, according to the Senate – I am.  You know, the group controlled by democrats, they have put language in their healthcare bill, not the tax law, that shields people from this penalty . . . AND AGAIN FOR YOU DARTH . . . WITHIN THE HEALTHCARE BILL.

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties.  The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

You want to know where I get this stuff.  Evidently you were too lazy to follow the link showing Pelosi not even batting an eye when asked about the healthcare bill and jail time.  Even she did not attempt to say . . . “That is just the tax law.”  If you would like, I can give you a link where Obama is asked about this as well. 

I have yet to lie during my post concerning Obama.

 

As far as your value judgment . . . I think we have proved that your judgment has no value.  My Christianity has nothing to do with your judgment, but rather with my standing before Christ.

 

There is no reason for me to answer the other 15 things until you recognize your error concerning this one.  Why would I waste my time?  This is one issue that is so clear.  Darth, there are many here who certainly do not agree with me concerning Christianity, but you look very unintelligent arguing a point that not even the authors of the bill would agree with or have even proposed.  Just admit . . . the House healthcare bill does have a provision in it to punish people with jail time if they do not pay the BILL’S (that is a possessive) mandate tax.

 

 

The "tax" you say doesn't exist for the majority of Americans, who have health care.

 

It is only for people that currently do not, to provide it for them. Why? Because they can only go to an E.R. now for treatment, pile bill on bill, file for bankrupcy, and the rest of society ends up paying through higher E.R.  costs.

 

And the E.R. costs are not preventative. They only really have equipment to treat...get this. Emergencies.

 

Doesn't seem like a tax to me. It seems like it is just making the costs up-front instead of back-end, and then assisting the people that can't afford health care to get it.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.