Does anyone in America still like Obama?

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Does anyone in America still like Obama?

While browsing various stories and articles on the net, as I frequently do, I have become puzzled by the volume of anti-Obama sentiment that seems to appear in comment sections. I know comments are the pit of the internet, but what's going on? Even on articles that have absolutely nothing to do with politics, some Obama bashing will find it's way in before long. I find it hard to believe that conservative Republicans are so active on the internet, posting their opinion everywhere. Maybe it's just me but I tend to imagine them sitting in the deep south, without knowing how to even use a computer Sticking out tongue For instance, on a story about someone who did something stupid(I forget details) someone commented, "It's stupidity like this that got Obama elected" Why does no one ever seem to oppose these comments? Do democrats not have internet?

A few months ago everyone was singing Obama's praises, now he seem to be on par with Bush on the popularity meter.I can't remember when last I saw a positive comment about the administration. Or is it just that Americans love to pass the blame?

 

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


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oh, i think this is

oh, i think this is common.  the honeymoon is over, but obama still hasn't had enough time yet to make his mark as a president.  honestly, unless you go crazy and start a war like bush, it's very hard to accomplish anything memorable as president until almost the end of your first term, and that's if you're really on the ball. 

it seems to me like obama will be mostly a consensus-builder, and america needs about 3 of those in a row to return to normalcy.  the problem is, the american people never have the attention span for consensus-builders.  look how carter got tossed out on his ass.  we like presidents who fuck something or kill something.  why else would we refer to kennedy's administration as "camelot"?  he did both!  if a president doesn't fuck or kill, how will we make fun of him on SNL?

on a side-note, one of the disadvantages of being a country musician is that you meet A LOT of fucking retards as you make your rounds.  i remember i went to meet a local bluegrass musician in TN a few months ago and as i was waiting for her in the town's community center i got to converse with her friend's chubby little 13 year-old daughter, who proceeded to explain to me how obama "isn't using his brain" and isn't really an american citizen.  but the BEST part was when she said something along the lines of, "you know, so much crap has happened since he became president.  what with michael jackson dying and all, people are really starting to wonder what's going on."

seriously.  i just grunted noncommitally to everything she said and nodded occasionally.  when i got to my car i looked down and saw fingernail indentations in my palms.

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My complaints are that I

My complaints are that I think he is being too soft on his opposition.  AND just like I thought Bush wasted our money on creating Homeland Security, rather than fix what we already have, Obama wants to create a Securities Protection agency to oversee banks and Wall Street. WHAT THE FUCK? Isn't that what the SEC is for? Why not just fix that?

But having said that, Obama should not have to apologize for a mess he did not create. Republicans have spent the past 30 years protecting corporate blackmail and corporate anarchy. The tactic is simple, big business threatens to move jobs overseas if the CEOs or shareholders have to tighten their belts. Big business is not happy unless it can explode it's profits at the expense of not providing the lowest paid a livable wage.

I have no sympathy for corporate greed. If these fat cats didn't want government sticking it's nose in, then it shouldn't have raped the public. They have no one to blame but themselves.

The complaining from the right however, is nothing but sour grapes. It is merely the whining that they lost their alpha male status that they have maintained for so long. Well, too bad assholes. When you crash your car your insurance rate goes up and you get a ticket. Get too many points on your license and it gets suspended or revoked. The right lost the election because the right cared more about private issues than it should have about the moral responsibility of preventing these market crashes IT was paid off to protect.

Obama can't be judged too much at this point because the steamy pile he is trying to dig us out of is really deep. I can't say either way if what he is doing will work, but considering what the last administration did, I don't see how he can do any worse. Bush set the bar really low.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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:3

 There is a group of loud people that have been doing this since President Obama was elected. They are called teabaggers, birthers, and a host of other names, but they are really just people that are upset they don't have another George W. Bush. I think they are getting a feeling of helplessness as they realize the rest of the country doesn't want that, and they are increasingly marginalized.

 

I like Obama. He is an alright conservative president. I wish he was more progressive, but he isn't so we go with what we have. There are a few minor complaints, like he is soft on the remaining Republicans, and keeps supporting "bi-partisanship" when they have become the party of obstructionism, and also his lack of support for federally accepted same-sex marriage...but other than that, I think he is doing a good job.

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ClockCat wrote:I like Obama.

ClockCat wrote:

I like Obama. He is an alright conservative president. I wish he was more progressive, but he isn't so we go with what we have. There are a few minor complaints, like he is soft on the remaining Republicans, and keeps supporting "bi-partisanship" when they have become the party of obstructionism, and also his lack of support for federally accepted same-sex marriage...but other than that, I think he is doing a good job.

I'd like to add to that laundry list of complaints: his handling of torture could be a bit... firmer. And his support of the sooper-sekret international copyright treaty (that would force DMCA on the rest of the world) sucks donkey balls.

But, in spite of that, I still really like and respect the man. He's doing a bang-up job under difficult circumstances.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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I can understans teabaggers

I can understans teabaggers and birthers making negative comments. The weird thing is how there never seem to be any positive comments on articles where other commenters are bashing him. Unless of course the supporters know no good can come from a flame war..

You've gota feel sorry for him..just because he can't clean up someone else's huge mess in a year people are practically calling for his impeachment.

Another thing I don't understand: I haven't followed the healthcare debate with great attention, but here's what I seem to understand. Obama wants to give people free health care, and in return they call him hitler and want to kill him. So free healthcare means longer lines? Would there be a huge tax hike? Why is he a socialist for it?

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


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 All things considered, I

 All things considered, I think Obama's doing ok.  I'm not a political idealist, though.  In most cases, I'll take marginal improvement and be happy.  I think you'd be hard pressed to say Obama isn't a marginal improvement over Bush.

 

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Hambydammit wrote: All

Hambydammit wrote:

 All things considered, I think Obama's doing ok.  I'm not a political idealist, though.  In most cases, I'll take marginal improvement and be happy.  I think you'd be hard pressed to say Obama isn't a marginal improvement over Bush.

 

DUDE! You do realize he is black? You do realize he mentioned non-believers in his Inauguration. GEBUS KRISTOS ON A CRACKER MAN! What is this world coming to when white right wingers can't have their theocracy! You are such a fucking killjoy! It is people like you that give Merka a bad name. Damn man, next thing you will claim that gays should be allowed to get married.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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I'd just like to add my two

I'd just like to add my two cents on this because I'm not a democrat or a republican. I guess you could define me as a libertarian, but that's not entirely accurate either.

 

  • Right now, Obama is absolutely no different than Bush is. He's spending money at a rate faster than Bush did. This wouldn't be a big deal if the money spent actually fixed problems that could be solved by throwing money at them. However, that's just not the case.
  • He's continuing the war efforts of Bush while retaining the same sub-par war tactics that do not win wars. He's not committing enough troops to complete the objective of the war with minimal casualties which is exactly what Bush did.
  • He's attempting to extend the Patriot Act. You know, that one thing Bush created.
  • He's supported bills he has not read.
  • He's broken important promises which people elected him on (his promise for bi-partisanship, as an example).
  • He's given some very suspect people important positions.

 

All in all, he's really no different than Bush. The difference is that instead of being a decider, he's indecisive. Also, a narcissist. Those are not traits I find to be good leader skills.

 

But I'll put it like this. Pretty much every complaint democrats made about Bush (vacation days, insane spending, partisan politics, poor handling of war, war itself, etc.) are exactly the same things Obama is doing. The difference? He's a donkey instead of an elephant.

 

Edit: There's a difference between a partisan promise and a bi-partisan one Sticking out tongue.


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Jesus Christ doesn't like

Jesus Christ doesn't like Obama.  Jesus was just sentenced to three years in prison for threatening President Obama's life.  LINK HERE

 


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His rating has dropped,

His rating has dropped, inevitably, but apparently, a significant number still do:

from here

Quote:

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 32% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -8 (see trends).

Even as the House of Representatives passed its version of health care reform, most Americans continue to oppose the plan working its way through Congress.

The Berlin Wall came down twenty years ago today and 93% consider that moment an important event in world history.

The Presidential Approval Index is calculated by subtracting the number who Strongly Disapprove from the number who Strongly Approve. It is updated daily at 9:30 a.m. Eastern (sign up for free daily e-mail update). Updates are also available on Twitter and Facebook.

Overall, 49% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. Fifty percent (50%) disapprove.

So does "about half" count as a significant number of Americans? Or even a third who still apparently actually like what he is doing? Hardly counts as nobody...

 

 

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I didn't appreciate BHO

I didn't appreciate BHO grovelling to the various ME states, but then my opinion of him plummeted when I saw him give a 'shout out' at the Native American Indian Tribes council meeting before mentioning the Ft. Hood terrorist attack by that radical molsem scumbag Hasan.

He's feeble, clueless and surrounds himself with 'czars' who are largely Marxist by association but still an improvement on Bush Ver 2.0.

 

Ok, let the flaming begin.

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Obama is to me like Clinton.

Obama is to me like Clinton. The US gets a guy in power who acknowledges that the US doesn't own the world, and doesn't make crazy shit up to start wars, and the public hates him for it. But the rest of the world starts to respect the US because of these policies, making it easier for the next warmonger to throw his or her weight around. A strange circle.

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I am an American.  He isn't

I am an American.  He isn't perfect, but I still like him. 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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BobSpence1 wrote:

His rating has dropped, inevitably, but apparently, a significant number still do:

from here

Quote:

 

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 32% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -8 (see trends).

Even as the House of Representatives passed its version of health care reform, most Americans continue to oppose the plan working its way through Congress.

The Berlin Wall came down twenty years ago today and 93% consider that moment an important event in world history.

The Presidential Approval Index is calculated by subtracting the number who Strongly Disapprove from the number who Strongly Approve. It is updated daily at 9:30 a.m. Eastern (sign up for free daily e-mail update). Updates are also available on Twitter and Facebook.

Overall, 49% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. Fifty percent (50%) disapprove.

So does "about half" count as a significant number of Americans? Or even a third who still apparently actually like what he is doing? Hardly counts as nobody...

 

 

 

 

The Center for Public Integrity database on campaign consultants shows "Scott Rasmussen Inc" as having been a paid consultant for "Bush, George W." while he was in office, and is still being a paid consultant for the "Republican National Committee". They have been paid consultants for the GOP for years. If you notice their polls and results usually differ from every major polling source. They target specific pools of people, and they use heavily leaning questions. In addition, they often choose to report only results that favor the GOP as much as possible. One easy example of this, is in approval for parties they chose to only show "strongly favor" for each side, and entirely neglect the "lean-to" and "moderate" groups of people. They had results for them of course, they just didn't publish them.

 

They are far from independent and non-partisan. 

 

 

To compare how far off they are look at Gallup for example, with Obama's approval at 53% and disapproval at 41%. Now think of how many people voted for him in the election. He has never been above 60% i believe? So if that is his cap, (with a part of the population unhappy with him since his election day, and unlikely to ever change from calling him a non-american socialist commie kenyan muslim) then he is still doing quite well in the eyes of his constituents.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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ClockCat wrote:BobSpence1

ClockCat wrote:

BobSpence1 wrote:

His rating has dropped, inevitably, but apparently, a significant number still do:

from here

Quote:

 

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 32% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -8 (see trends).

Even as the House of Representatives passed its version of health care reform, most Americans continue to oppose the plan working its way through Congress.

The Berlin Wall came down twenty years ago today and 93% consider that moment an important event in world history.

The Presidential Approval Index is calculated by subtracting the number who Strongly Disapprove from the number who Strongly Approve. It is updated daily at 9:30 a.m. Eastern (sign up for free daily e-mail update). Updates are also available on Twitter and Facebook.

Overall, 49% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. Fifty percent (50%) disapprove.

So does "about half" count as a significant number of Americans? Or even a third who still apparently actually like what he is doing? Hardly counts as nobody...

 

 

 

 

The Center for Public Integrity database on campaign consultants shows "Scott Rasmussen Inc" as a paid consultant for both the "Republican National Committee" and "Bush, George W.". They have been paid consultants for the GOP for years. If you notice their polls and results usually differ from every major polling source. They target specific pools of people, and they use heavily leaning questions. In addition, they often choose to report only results that favor the GOP as much as possible. One easy example of this, is in approval for parties they chose to only show "strongly favor" for each side, and entirely neglect the "lean-to" and "moderate" groups of people. They had results for them of course, they just didn't publish them.

 

They are far from independent and non-partisan. 

 

 

To compare how far off they are look at Gallup for example, with Obama's approval at 53% and disapproval at 41%. Now think of how many people voted for him in the election. He has never been above 60% i believe? So if that is his cap, (with a part of the population unhappy with him since his election day, and unlikely to ever change from calling him a non-american socialist commie kenyan muslim) then he is still doing quite well in the eyes of his constituents.

Interesting. I really just did a Google Search for the first reasonably looking poll.

In fact, with the respect to the OP, if even such a potentially unreliable source has his general support around 50%, his real current support is presumably higher than that, making the OP comment even less relevant to reality. IOW, he probably still has the general approval of most Americans.

EDIT: As far as I can judge from across the Big Pond, I think he is probably doing as well as could be hoped for, altho I do see a few disturbing 'hiccups', nothing quite on the scale of the abominable Bush and Co.

A search for comment on the 'net is almost guaranteed to turn up mostly disapprovals, since that seems to be associated with far stronger feelings than the "he's ok" group.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

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Obama is a lot less progressive than I thought

 

he'd be, too. I had unrealistic visions of sweeping changes but life isn't like that. So I like Obama but I wish his position was  more...vibrant.

It's funny, as a green-tinged, left wing liberal ( that combination is even sillier in Australia than the USA) I feel entirely unrepresented by any government I've ever lived under.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who fantasises about climbing aboard some rust-sided cosmic Mayflower and getting the fuck out of this stupid solar system.

When you sink your mind into the possibilities of such Star Trek adventure it's nearly possible to feel like the pilgrim fathers, leaning to the new world.

Unless you're an Indian and then all that's total crap. Oh, for a world with freedom of irreligion, a world without hand-me-down guilt.

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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BobSpence1 wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

BobSpence1 wrote:

His rating has dropped, inevitably, but apparently, a significant number still do:

from here

Quote:

 

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 32% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -8 (see trends).

Even as the House of Representatives passed its version of health care reform, most Americans continue to oppose the plan working its way through Congress.

The Berlin Wall came down twenty years ago today and 93% consider that moment an important event in world history.

The Presidential Approval Index is calculated by subtracting the number who Strongly Disapprove from the number who Strongly Approve. It is updated daily at 9:30 a.m. Eastern (sign up for free daily e-mail update). Updates are also available on Twitter and Facebook.

Overall, 49% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. Fifty percent (50%) disapprove.

So does "about half" count as a significant number of Americans? Or even a third who still apparently actually like what he is doing? Hardly counts as nobody...

 

 

 

 

The Center for Public Integrity database on campaign consultants shows "Scott Rasmussen Inc" as a paid consultant for both the "Republican National Committee" and "Bush, George W.". They have been paid consultants for the GOP for years. If you notice their polls and results usually differ from every major polling source. They target specific pools of people, and they use heavily leaning questions. In addition, they often choose to report only results that favor the GOP as much as possible. One easy example of this, is in approval for parties they chose to only show "strongly favor" for each side, and entirely neglect the "lean-to" and "moderate" groups of people. They had results for them of course, they just didn't publish them.

 

They are far from independent and non-partisan. 

 

 

To compare how far off they are look at Gallup for example, with Obama's approval at 53% and disapproval at 41%. Now think of how many people voted for him in the election. He has never been above 60% i believe? So if that is his cap, (with a part of the population unhappy with him since his election day, and unlikely to ever change from calling him a non-american socialist commie kenyan muslim) then he is still doing quite well in the eyes of his constituents.

Interesting. I really just did a Google Search for the first reasonably looking poll.

In fact, with the respect to the OP, if even such a potentially unreliable source has his general support around 50%, his real current support is presumably higher than that, making the OP comment even less relevant to reality. IOW, he probably still has the general approval of most Americans.

EDIT: As far as I can judge from across the Big Pond, I think he is probably doing as well as could be hoped for, altho I do see a few disturbing 'hiccups', nothing quite on the scale of the abominable Bush and Co.

A search for comment on the 'net is almost guaranteed to turn up mostly disapprovals, since that seems to be associated with far stronger feelings than the "he's ok" group.

 

Yes, and this is one of the things Rasmussen takes advantage of. They setup polls to completely ignore people that are apathetic. Most people DO NOT have strong feelings one way or the other. However, a larger number of people have always strongly hated President Obama since his election, than people that have strongly supported him. Most of his supporters moderately like him, because he is a conservative democrat. Therefore, they are omitted from poll results. There are a good number of people that just don't have an opinion as well, and they will often be omitted by Rasmussen, or put into the "dislike" category. An example of this would be the middle answer being "I don't have any good feelings for Barrack Hussein Obama's job performance" while the last one would be "I strongly oppose Barrack Hussein Obama's performance". They leave no choice in push-polling for someone who is apathetic to it. It is how they design polls, and if the results are not good they omit those parts to the public to spin them in a better light for the GOP. That is what they are paid to do.

 

The only groups I'm aware of that will quote them are Fox News, WND, Drudge, and Freeper type places.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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Brian37 wrote:DUDE! You do

Brian37 wrote:

DUDE! You do realize he is black?

 

  Yo, homie, his mother is white, his father is black.  Why would you ignore that ?  Does referring to him as "black" make him more appealing in your eyes ?


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Atheistextremist wrote:I'm

Atheistextremist wrote:

I'm sure I'm not the only one who fantasises about climbing aboard some rust-sided cosmic Mayflower and getting the fuck out of this stupid solar system. 

I need one 'Colonial One' aka 'Mayflower' and 263 ships carrying supplies assembled in orbit. I have the plan. However, I can't guarantee there will be a habitable planet when the 121 +/-8 passengers get there 65 years (+/-2months) from now. (According to Lorentz it will be 25) Managed acceleration and deceleration to mimic 9.8m/s2 means timing the resupply ship rendezvous perfectly with matching speed at point of delivery.

Essentially, it is just the same system we're operating under now though. Go along for the ride, ignore the grandchildrens' problems, stay healthy but if you get sick die quickly, and nothing but uncertainty lies on the voyage.

The funniest thing... My idea for the ship looks like a death star and the supply ships look like imperial cruisers. lol.

So yeah. I fantasize about it too.

 

 

On topic: I still like Obama. He has a few strikes against him so far in this first 10 months, but when I imagine the alternative I like him much more. He hasn't crossed the line to become the 'lesser of two evils' guy yet, but we'll see how this health 'reform' shakes out. You can read the bill at thomas.loc.gov I see 5 things that could potentially be open for abuse by government and insurance companies.

I wasn't going to paste this, but trying to get some people to read a bill is difficult at best.

 

Here's the section I have the biggest problem with:

SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

    `(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of--
      `(1) the taxpayer's modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
      `(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
    `(b) Limitations-
      `(1) TAX LIMITED TO AVERAGE PREMIUM-
        `(A) IN GENERAL- The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the applicable national average premium for such taxable year.
        `(B) APPLICABLE NATIONAL AVERAGE PREMIUM-
          `(i) IN GENERAL- For purposes of subparagraph (A), the `applicable national average premium' means, with respect to any taxable year, the average premium (as determined by the Secretary, in coordination with the Health Choices Commissioner) for self-only coverage under a basic plan which is offered in a Health Insurance Exchange for the calendar year in which such taxable year begins.
          `(ii) FAILURE TO PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR MORE THAN ONE INDIVIDUAL- In the case of any taxpayer who fails to meet the requirements of subsection (d) with respect to more than one individual during the taxable year, clause (i) shall be applied by substituting `family coverage' for `self-only coverage'.
      `(2) PRORATION FOR PART YEAR FAILURES- The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the amount which bears the same ratio to the amount of tax so imposed (determined without regard to this paragraph and after application of paragraph (1)) as--
        `(A) the aggregate periods during such taxable year for which such individual failed to meet the requirements of subsection (d), bears to
        `(B) the entire taxable year.
    `(c) Exceptions-
      `(1) DEPENDENTS- Subsection (a) shall not apply to any individual for any taxable year if a deduction is allowable under section 151 with respect to such individual to another taxpayer for any taxable year beginning in the same calendar year as such taxable year.
      `(2) NONRESIDENT ALIENS- Subsection (a) shall not apply to any individual who is a nonresident alien.
      `(3) INDIVIDUALS RESIDING OUTSIDE UNITED STATES- Any qualified individual (as defined in section 911(d)) (and any qualifying child residing with such individual) shall be treated for purposes of this section as covered by acceptable coverage during the period described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of section 911(d)(1), whichever is applicable.
      `(4) INDIVIDUALS RESIDING IN POSSESSIONS OF THE UNITED STATES- Any individual who is a bona fide resident of any possession of the United States (as determined under section 937(a)) for any taxable year (and any qualifying child residing with such individual) shall be treated for purposes of this section as covered by acceptable coverage during such taxable year.
      `(5) RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION-
        `(A) IN GENERAL- Subsection (a) shall not apply to any individual (and any qualifying child residing with such individual) for any period if such individual has in effect an exemption which certifies that such individual is a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof described in section 1402(g)(1) and an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division as described in such section.
        `(B) EXEMPTION- An application for the exemption described in subparagraph (A) shall be filed with the Secretary at such time and in such form and manner as the Secretary may prescribe. The Secretary may treat an application for exemption under section 1402(g)(1) as an application for exemption under this section, or may otherwise coordinate applications under such sections, as the Secretary determines appropriate. Any such exemption granted by the Secretary shall be effective for such period as the Secretary determines appropriate.
    `(d) Acceptable Coverage Requirement-
      `(1) IN GENERAL- The requirements of this subsection are met with respect to any individual for any period if such individual (and each qualifying child of such individual) is covered by acceptable coverage at all times during such period.
      `(2) ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE- For purposes of this section, the term `acceptable coverage' means any of the following:
        `(A) QUALIFIED HEALTH BENEFITS PLAN COVERAGE- Coverage under a qualified health benefits plan (as defined in section 100(c) of the ).
        `(B) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE; COVERAGE UNDER GRANDFATHERED EMPLOYMENT-BASED HEALTH PLAN- Coverage under a grandfathered health insurance coverage (as defined in subsection (a) of section 202 of the ) or under a current employment-based health plan (within the meaning of subsection (b) of such section).
        `(C) MEDICARE- Coverage under part A of title XVIII of the Social Security Act.
        `(D) MEDICAID- Coverage for medical assistance under title XIX of the Social Security Act.
        `(E) MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES AND DEPENDENTS (INCLUDING TRICARE)- Coverage under chapter 55 of title 10, United States Code, including similar coverage furnished under section 1781 of title 38 of such Code.
        `(F) VA- Coverage under the veteran's health care program under chapter 17 of title 38, United States Code.
        `(G) MEMBERS OF INDIAN TRIBES- Health care services made available through the Indian Health Service, a tribal organization (as defined in section 4 of the Indian Health Care Improvement Act), or an urban Indian organization (as defined in such section) to members of an Indian tribe (as defined in such section).
        `(H) OTHER COVERAGE- Such other health benefits coverage as the Secretary, in coordination with the Health Choices Commissioner, recognizes for purposes of this subsection.
    `(e) Other Definitions and Special Rules-
      `(1) QUALIFYING CHILD- For purposes of this section, the term `qualifying child' has the meaning given such term by section 152(c). With respect to any period during which health coverage for a child must be provided by an individual pursuant to a child support order, such child shall be treated as a qualifying child of such individual (and not as a qualifying child of any other individual).
      `(2) BASIC PLAN- For purposes of this section, the term `basic plan' has the meaning given such term under section 100(c) of the .
      `(3) HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE- For purposes of this section, the term `Health Insurance Exchange' has the meaning given such term under section 100(c) of the , including any State-based health insurance exchange approved for operation under section 308 of such Act.
      `(4) FAMILY COVERAGE- For purposes of this section, the term `family coverage' means any coverage other than self-only coverage.
      `(5) MODIFIED ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME- For purposes of this section, the term `modified adjusted gross income' means adjusted gross income increased by--
        `(A) any amount excluded from gross income under section 911, and
        `(B) any amount of interest received or accrued by the taxpayer during the taxable year which is exempt from tax.
      `(6) NOT TREATED AS TAX IMPOSED BY THIS CHAPTER FOR CERTAIN PURPOSES- The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax imposed by this chapter for purposes of determining the amount of any credit under this chapter or for purposes of section 55.
    `(f) Regulations- The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations or other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out the purposes of this section, including regulations or other guidance (developed in coordination with the Health Choices Commissioner) which provide--
      `(1) exemption from the tax imposed under subsection (a) in cases of de minimis lapses of acceptable coverage, and
      `(2) a waiver of the application of subsection (a) in cases of hardship, including a process for applying for such a waiver.'.
    (b) Information Reporting-
      (1) IN GENERAL- Subpart B of part III of subchapter A of chapter 61 of such Code is amended by inserting after section 6050W the following new section:

 

 

 

[edit] Obama is for this section. In his speech in September. I'll try to find it.

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"The funniest thing... My

"The funniest thing... My idea for the ship looks like a death star and the supply ships look like imperial cruisers. lol."

If you have a superlaser I'm in.

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Vastet wrote:"The funniest

Vastet wrote:
"The funniest thing... My idea for the ship looks like a death star and the supply ships look like imperial cruisers. lol." If you have a superlaser I'm in.

 

Oh. Sorry. I thought you knew. The queen said no canadians allowed. (I gave deludedgod the only waiver.)

Maybe you guys could get a few of the ice road truckers to build your own?

Just kidding. I could tolerate your canadian-ness so long as we kept it on the DL.

 

On topic:

I found one line that alluded to Obama's support for the tax. I'm looking for the whole speech.

Quote:
Obama: [T]hose of us with health insurance are also paying a hidden and growing tax for those without it – about $1,000 per year that pays for somebody else’s emergency room and charitable care.

 

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"Oh. Sorry. I thought you

"Oh. Sorry. I thought you knew. The queen said no canadians allowed. (I gave deludedgod the only waiver.)"

What, you're British now? Eye-wink

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Vastet wrote:"Oh. Sorry. I

Vastet wrote:
"Oh. Sorry. I thought you knew. The queen said no canadians allowed. (I gave deludedgod the only waiver.)" What, you're British now? Eye-wink

 

Diplomacy. The french said no canadians either and well... I need CERN in on the project. Trust me on this. If I recruit Brian Cox to work on the project... OMGoodness the hot chicks will flock to the interstellar spaceship. So Britain and France, they're in. Plus France is moving toward a forced secular society anyway, I think. Canada is regressing. The conservatives won. Remember? Harper will have you fellers back to the good old days in no time. lol.

 

 

On topic: DUH, josh. It was in the same speech and I just glanced right past it. I listened to the speech when he gave it, but this just didn't hit home until I looked at the bill relative to my own 'economy'.

Barack Obama wrote:
And that's why under my plan, individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance -- just as most states require you to carry auto insurance.  (Applause.)  Likewise -- likewise, businesses will be required to either offer their workers health care, or chip in to help cover the cost of their workers.  There will be a hardship waiver for those individuals who still can't afford coverage, and 95 percent of all small businesses, because of their size and narrow profit margin, would be exempt from these requirements.  (Applause.)  But we can't have large businesses and individuals who can afford coverage game the system by avoiding responsibility to themselves or their employees.  Improving our health care system only works if everybody does their part.

Here it is. I understand the rationale. However, the practical application of this makes it unlivable.

What is being said...

Either buy health insurance or we will tax you. 2.5% AGI. I don't think they realize how many people out of the 47,000,000 americans without coverage simply cannot justify paying $200+ a month for even the shittiest insurance. A regular doctor's visit CASH is $92 in my locale. A broken hand = $250. Forehead stitches = $135. Bladder surgery = $1,400. Bringing us to a total of $1,877.

A year's worth of insurance premiums = $2,400+ PLUS the co-pay. PLUS the 20%. PLUS the deductible. PLUS waiting on the insurance to pay the doctor/hospital so that I don't get phone calls asking me why the insurance company hasn't paid the damned bill.

THAT is not any kind of CHANGE I thought we were headed for 18 months ago.

WE BOUGHT AN INSURANCE COMPANY LAST YEAR! AIG is into us for $185,000,000+ And that was under Bush.

I expected a democrat to run with the trend. I expected/desired a strong public option that would force insurance companies and hospitals to their knees and hold them accountable for not fixing their own proverbial houses before running into mine with a ball point pen.

I did not expect Barack to kowtow to the insurance companies in the same way the auto insurance companies lobbied/blackmailed the states to require auto insurance. AND I STILL PAY EXTRA ON MY CAR INSURANCE FOR UNINSURED MOTORISTS!!!!!????

Immigrants will still bring diseases with them and will be susceptible to new diseases here and the hospitals are not allowed to turn them away so it doesn't fix that problem either. One would argue that it exacerbates the problem when you lift a ban on HIV+ people to enter the country for treatment or whatever. WHY CAN'T the treatment go to them instead???? A government run medical program for immigrants here and abroad would be a great thing, and it would be a cheap thing, but this is another topic unto itself.

From my lower middle class perspective, this is sucking!!! This is not reform. This is not change. This is obnoxious and the man I thought would be on the side of the proletariat is proving me wrong. The man I thought would YANK the troops out is sending more. The man I thought was above ethnic considerations put a 'wise latina woman' aka LA RAZA into the supreme court.

He's gotta turn this around. I know it hasn't been a year yet, but SHIT don't make it worse for next year. AND for goodness sakes, don't put on a yarmulke and tuck a prayer into the wailing wall!

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Mandating that we all get

Mandating that we all get insurance and having tax payers pay to get insurance for those who can't afford it sounds like a free give away to the insurance companies. Is this meant to improve health care in the US or is it meant to funnel a lot of money into the hands of insurance companies as a way of thanking them for campaign contributions and to ensure that large campaign contributions are given in the future? When it comes to the mandated health insurace, I suspect that this is more corporatism rather than a genuine effort to help.

As for people's opinion of Obama: they have become disillusioned. Before and for a while after the election some people had unreasonably high hopes for Obama. They saw him as a progressive messiah that would turn this country around in their favor. Now reality has set in and they don't like it that their expectations were not met. I don't know if it is his fault that some people built up a fantasy about what his accomplishments would be. But the fact remains that the fantasy hasn't been fulfilled and these people are getting pissed.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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Jormungander wrote:

Mandating that we all get insurance and having tax payers pay to get insurance for those who can't afford it sounds like a free give away to the insurance companies. Is this meant to improve health care in the US or is it meant to funnel a lot of money into the hands of insurance companies as a way of thanking them for campaign contributions and to ensure that large campaign contributions are given in the future? When it comes to the mandated health insurace, I suspect that this is more corporatism rather than a genuine effort to help.

As for people's opinion of Obama: they have become disillusioned. Before and for a while after the election some people had unreasonably high hopes for Obama. They saw him as a progressive messiah that would turn this country around in their favor. Now reality has set in and they don't like it that their expectations were not met. I don't know if it is his fault that some people built up a fantasy about what his accomplishments would be. But the fact remains that the fantasy hasn't been fulfilled and these people are getting pissed.

 

Evidence shows the opposite of that. He still has roughly the same approval rating he did when he was elected, and roughly the same disapproval rating.

 

Considering that he caps at around 60% approval rating (considering a portion of society hates him no matter what he does, and have since he won on election night) he is still high among the constituents thaat vote for him. No one I know that voted for him are "disillusioned" much in any way but feeling he is too soft on his opponents. There are a few other minor issues, but otherwise things are peachy.

 

No one is getting "pissed". The people that were upset, are still upset, and will still be upset. They are being egged on by their choice of media. 

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That is not what I have

That is not what I have observed ClockCat. If you don't mind me asking, where in the US are you? I'm in Southern California and I have noticed that some supporters of Obama are getting frustrated with him. Two of my roommates were obamabots back in the election, but they have wised up recently thanks to his failure to reach their unreasonable expectations. Maybe I just happen to know a set of people who are that way or maybe that is just a regional thing in Southern California. Or maybe people are finally getting it that Obama is not going to fulfill their liberal fantasies and is instead going to propagate some of the Bush policies that these people hate.

Gallup poll says that Obama has a 53% approval rating. That rating is dropping (quickly) and should be less than 50% soon. Most presidents suffer this trend though.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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:o

Jormungander wrote:

That is not what I have observed ClockCat. If you don't mind me asking, where in the US are you? I'm in Southern California and I have noticed that some supporters of Obama are getting frustrated with him. Two of my roommates were obamabots back in the election, but they have wised up recently thanks to his failure to reach their unreasonable expectations. Maybe I just happen to know a set of people who are that way or maybe that is just a regional thing in Southern California. Or maybe people are finally getting it that Obama is not going to fulfill their liberal fantasies and is instead going to propagate some of the Bush policies that these people hate.

Gallup poll says that Obama has a 53% approval rating. That rating is dropping (quickly) and should be less than 50% soon. Most presidents suffer this trend though.

That rating is not dropping (quickly) according to gallup poll. It has been steady since the end of July, when he was at 52% approval. It has jumped within about 4-5% since then, but not deviated far.

 

I'm not sure what an "obamabot" is, but I'm assuming you mean someone that voted for our current president. I'm also not sure what unreasonable expectations your roommates had. Care to share what they were? Also, what "liberal fantasies" are you talking about?

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iwbiek wrote:on a side-note,

iwbiek wrote:
on a side-note, one of the disadvantages of being a country musician is that you meet A LOT of fucking retards as you make your rounds.  i remember i went to meet a local bluegrass musician in TN a few months ago and as i was waiting for her in the town's community center i got to converse with her friend's chubby little 13 year-old daughter, who proceeded to explain to me how obama "isn't using his brain" and isn't really an american citizen.  but the BEST part was when she said something along the lines of, "you know, so much crap has happened since he became president.  what with michael jackson dying and all, people are really starting to wonder what's going on."

LOL!!!
This has to be the funniest story I've seen all week!!

 


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He is an idiot

Obama going down as the worst president in history.  He knows nothing about economics.  He knows nothing about business.  He is an idiot.  The reason he is losing approval is that he is also a hypocrite.  He told America what he knew they wanted to hear and now he does what he wants.

You are nuts to blame all of the bad economy on business.  Why not look at the Federal government and other idiots like Obama.  America is finally seeing his true colors and they don't like what they see.  That is why people do not like him.

 

He wants people to give to others that have less and yet he does not give.

He wants people to save the environment but that is not his personal job

He wants people to be under a national healthcare plan, but not those in government

He wants to cap salaries of people in the private sector, but if you work for government -  the sky is the limit

He apologizes for America all over the world, and yet it is America who constantly bails out other countries, comes to their aid in troubled times, and helps them fight their wars.

 

This country is not perfect and there is corruption on both sides of the isle, but Obama is one of the worst I have ever seen.  He is a joke that needs to be voted out as soon as possible.  The rest of the country is figuring that out.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


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REVLyle wrote:The rest of

REVLyle wrote:

The rest of the country is figuring that out.

Yes, but when the next election rolls around he'll still probably be reelected. His liberal supporters will never vote for a Republican so they'll have no choice but to vote for him. The two party system will save him.

The only way I see him losing is if the economy stays this bad or gets worse. Then a Republican candidate could run on a 'the dems fucked the economy' platform and maybe win over enough moderates and independents to win. But if the economy picks up (through no doing of Obama or the dems in congress), he'll probably get reelected.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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REVLyle, even if all that

REVLyle, even if all that were true, he's still the best president you've had in nearly ten years. In the top 2 for the last 30 years.

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REVLyle wrote:

Obama going down as the worst president in history.  He knows nothing about economics.  He knows nothing about business.  He is an idiot.  The reason he is losing approval is that he is also a hypocrite.  He told America what he knew they wanted to hear and now he does what he wants.

You are nuts to blame all of the bad economy on business.  Why not look at the Federal government and other idiots like Obama.  America is finally seeing his true colors and they don't like what they see.  That is why people do not like him.

 

He wants people to give to others that have less and yet he does not give.

He wants people to save the environment but that is not his personal job

He wants people to be under a national healthcare plan, but not those in government

He wants to cap salaries of people in the private sector, but if you work for government -  the sky is the limit

He apologizes for America all over the world, and yet it is America who constantly bails out other countries, comes to their aid in troubled times, and helps them fight their wars.

 

This country is not perfect and there is corruption on both sides of the isle, but Obama is one of the worst I have ever seen.  He is a joke that needs to be voted out as soon as possible.  The rest of the country is figuring that out.

 

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Someone who would have disliked President Obama from his election, for no real reasons other than media and pundit inspired lunacy.

 

 

And Jorm went along with it. Huh.

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REVLyle wrote:Obama going

REVLyle wrote:

Obama going down as the worst president in history.  He knows nothing about economics.  He knows nothing about business.  He is an idiot.  The reason he is losing approval is that he is also a hypocrite.  He told America what he knew they wanted to hear and now he does what he wants.

He hasn't even been in office for a year.

He is no idiot. Harvard Law Review. His job is to pick the people that can fix the problems, but look at the pool he has to choose from. He has done some good things, but I wanted to complain about the bad. lol.

He lifted the executive ban on stem cell research funding. He's impressed the world enough to get the peace prize before he's been in office for a year.

I still have hope.

REVLyle wrote:
You are nuts to blame all of the bad economy on business.  Why not look at the Federal government and other idiots like Obama.  America is finally seeing his true colors and they don't like what they see.  That is why people do not like him.

The recession STARTED in December 2007. AIG sucked money from us under BUSH and PAULSON, not Obama. Business is to blame for their own creation of the BUBBLE that burst, no one else.

I like him. AT LEAST I CAN UNDERSTAND HIS SPEECHES!!! Thankfully, he can use and pronounce the word 'nuclear' correctly. So far, we haven't had any Obama-isms.

And OMGoodness, he doesn't look like he's almost dead getting ready to hand off the country to some Alaskan bimbo christtard.

 

REVLyle wrote:
He wants people to give to others that have less and yet he does not give.

Ummmm. Community organizer, charitable trust manager.

Besides that, these same 'qualities' that you mention here are present in the MAJORITY of preachers I know. Preachers don't put money into the offering plate on Sundays.

REVLyle wrote:
He wants people to save the environment but that is not his personal job

huh? I'd rather him do the job of president and pick a competent person to do that job.

 

REVLyle wrote:
He wants people to be under a national healthcare plan, but not those in government

Actually, I recall that he wanted comparable health care for all similar to the quality of care for government employees including congress. It's a lofty goal, but far off from your accusation.

REVLyle wrote:
He wants to cap salaries of people in the private sector, but if you work for government -  the sky is the limit

Now, you're touching the crazy bone. His salary as president is 1/10th that of a vice president at AIG one year ago counting bonuses and stock options.

REVLyle wrote:
He apologizes for America all over the world, and yet it is America who constantly bails out other countries, comes to their aid in troubled times, and helps them fight their wars.

Occupying a desert nation for 8 years counts as bailing it out? We shouldn't apologize because we're home to the world's largest economy and the eighth (oops ninth) largest economy (California) and American businesses have defaulted on debts to other nations or forced the government to borrow money to save their collective asses?

As I recall, his speech at the London and Pittsburgh G20 conferences contained not only an apology from America, but an admonition to the rest of the world.

As it should have. Do you know why? Because he is representing the same country that the lowlife piece of Texas shit drove into the dirt while his fatcat business bushbuddies were bilking people of billions.

 

REVLyle wrote:
This country is not perfect and there is corruption on both sides of the isle, but Obama is one of the worst I have ever seen.  He is a joke that needs to be voted out as soon as possible.  The rest of the country is figuring that out.

I heard no such cries from religious people such as yourself for Bush to be 'voted out as soon as possible'. Why not give this president some time since he EARNED his position. It didn't have to be given to him by a court or a single CHAD.

Talk like this while Bush was in office was labeled 'TREASON' by people just like you.

Fuck off.

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REVLyle wrote:He wants to

REVLyle wrote:

He wants to cap salaries of people in the private sector, but if you work for government -  the sky is the limit

yeah, god knows government workers are rolling in filthy money.  nothing says "ka-ching!" like being a civil servant.  i know my ambition has always been to be a postmaster or circuit court clerk, then i can buy that fabulous pontoon boat on lake cumberland and take luxurious vacations to myrtle beach.

sigh...well, a guy can dream...

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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REVLyle wrote:Obama going

REVLyle wrote:

Obama going down as the worst president in history.  He knows nothing about economics.  He knows nothing about business.  He is an idiot.  The reason he is losing approval is that he is also a hypocrite.  He told America what he knew they wanted to hear and now he does what he wants.

You are nuts to blame all of the bad economy on business.  Why not look at the Federal government and other idiots like Obama.  America is finally seeing his true colors and they don't like what they see.  That is why people do not like him.

 

He wants people to give to others that have less and yet he does not give.

He wants people to save the environment but that is not his personal job

He wants people to be under a national healthcare plan, but not those in government

He wants to cap salaries of people in the private sector, but if you work for government -  the sky is the limit

He apologizes for America all over the world, and yet it is America who constantly bails out other countries, comes to their aid in troubled times, and helps them fight their wars.

 

This country is not perfect and there is corruption on both sides of the isle, but Obama is one of the worst I have ever seen.  He is a joke that needs to be voted out as soon as possible.  The rest of the country is figuring that out.

 

Man, this is what I hate.  I think you can have valid reasons to dislike Obama, or his policies.  You think he is elitist?  Fine.  You disagree with his fiscal policy (and have a reasonable alternaitve)?  Fine.  You disagree with his international policy (and have a reasonable alternative)?  Fine.

But what I hate is when the only reason you dislike him is WAARRAAHHGGGGGBBBBLLLLLLEEEEE without any thought.  Just becaust Beck, Rush and your pastor/family think something does not give you a free pass to repeat it mindlessly.

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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Just a few things to think about

iwbiek wrote:

REVLyle wrote:

He wants to cap salaries of people in the private sector, but if you work for government -  the sky is the limit

yeah, god knows government workers are rolling in filthy money.  nothing says "ka-ching!" like being a civil servant.  i know my ambition has always been to be a postmaster or circuit court clerk, then i can buy that fabulous pontoon boat on lake cumberland and take luxurious vacations to myrtle beach.

sigh...well, a guy can dream...

1% of americans are millionaires while 44% of congress are millionaires.

210 million dollar bonuses to be handed out to Fannie and Freddie Mac.  Government run.  We bailed them out as well.

Congress gets another pay raise of $4,700 this year while unemployment goes over 10% and is really closer to 18%.

I, in no way believe that all who work for the government get rich . . . but many do.  Why is it in a recession that the government continues to hire like there is no tomorrow?

 

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I don't have time to address all - I will later

I just want to make one comment at this time.  Do you really think he did anything to deserve the Nobel???  Seriously.  ALL HE DID was talk a good game.  Even those on the left have made fun of this issue.  You do realize that the nominations for the Nobel had to be submitted by Feb. 1 2009.  Obama was in office for 12 days at that time.  Can you name one thing he had done before Feb. 1, 2009 that would constitute him winning the prize?  The prize is political . . . at best.  It was a complete joke.

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" Do you really think he did

" Do you really think he did anything to deserve the Nobel???"

Yes. He promised to shut down the illegal Guantanamo, and actually talked with other nations instead of dictating to them. Such a huge reversal of US policy did much to calm things down on a global scale. Maybe you're dumb enough to think that the US has the ability and the right to tell everyone what to do. Fortunately he isn't.

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"1% of americans are

"1% of americans are millionaires while 44% of congress are millionaires."

That just goes to show that money buys power. Your reasoning is fallacious.

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REVLyle wrote:

You do realize that the nominations for the Nobel had to be submitted by Feb. 1 2009.  Obama was in office for 12 days at that time.  Can you name one thing he had done before Feb. 1, 2009 that would constitute him winning the prize?  The prize is political . . . at best.  It was a complete joke.

 

No, not winning. But nominating, yes. He won it for his work in disarmament, and bringing diplomacy to the forefront of the world stage. There is another thread on his exact topic here that goes into this in detail. 

 

Although I congratulate you on parroting talking points that were hilariously sensationalized by pundits.

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REVLyle wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

REVLyle wrote:

He wants to cap salaries of people in the private sector, but if you work for government -  the sky is the limit

yeah, god knows government workers are rolling in filthy money.  nothing says "ka-ching!" like being a civil servant.  i know my ambition has always been to be a postmaster or circuit court clerk, then i can buy that fabulous pontoon boat on lake cumberland and take luxurious vacations to myrtle beach.

sigh...well, a guy can dream...

1% of americans are millionaires while 44% of congress are millionaires.

210 million dollar bonuses to be handed out to Fannie and Freddie Mac.  Government run.  We bailed them out as well.

Congress gets another pay raise of $4,700 this year while unemployment goes over 10% and is really closer to 18%.

I, in no way believe that all who work for the government get rich . . . but many do.  Why is it in a recession that the government continues to hire like there is no tomorrow?

 

 

So you assume correlation = causation? Also, you assume that somehow they made the money in office from their job, rather than possibly gaining the job through use of money. Many of the millionaires are independently wealthy from either business ownership or inheritance. 

 

Their pay isn't great by any means, compared to the private sector.

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REVLyle wrote:iwbiek

REVLyle wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

REVLyle wrote:

He wants to cap salaries of people in the private sector, but if you work for government -  the sky is the limit

yeah, god knows government workers are rolling in filthy money.  nothing says "ka-ching!" like being a civil servant.  i know my ambition has always been to be a postmaster or circuit court clerk, then i can buy that fabulous pontoon boat on lake cumberland and take luxurious vacations to myrtle beach.

sigh...well, a guy can dream...

1% of americans are millionaires while 44% of congress are millionaires.

210 million dollar bonuses to be handed out to Fannie and Freddie Mac.  Government run.  We bailed them out as well.

Congress gets another pay raise of $4,700 this year while unemployment goes over 10% and is really closer to 18%.

I, in no way believe that all who work for the government get rich . . . but many do.  Why is it in a recession that the government continues to hire like there is no tomorrow?

 

 

Again, hyperbole.  How many of those 44% were millionaires *before* they became congress critters (hint, most of them)?  I won't argue that wealth buys power, but saying political power buys wealth...private sector folks make more than these guys do.  If all they wanted was money they would be CEOs.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:

REVLyle wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

REVLyle wrote:

He wants to cap salaries of people in the private sector, but if you work for government -  the sky is the limit

yeah, god knows government workers are rolling in filthy money.  nothing says "ka-ching!" like being a civil servant.  i know my ambition has always been to be a postmaster or circuit court clerk, then i can buy that fabulous pontoon boat on lake cumberland and take luxurious vacations to myrtle beach.

sigh...well, a guy can dream...

1% of americans are millionaires while 44% of congress are millionaires.

210 million dollar bonuses to be handed out to Fannie and Freddie Mac.  Government run.  We bailed them out as well.

Congress gets another pay raise of $4,700 this year while unemployment goes over 10% and is really closer to 18%.

I, in no way believe that all who work for the government get rich . . . but many do.  Why is it in a recession that the government continues to hire like there is no tomorrow?

 

 

Again, hyperbole.  How many of those 44% were millionaires *before* they became congress critters (hint, most of them)?  I won't argue that wealth buys power, but saying political power buys wealth...private sector folks make more than these guys do.  If all they wanted was money they would be CEOs.

 

I think I'm going to refer to this from now on as Obama Derangement Syndrome. "One "nontroversy" after another, followed by the outrage of the day, followed by conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory, all delivered in breathless, angry prose that's just wearying and depressing to read." as said by former right wing blogger Charles Johnson.

 

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ClockCat wrote:mellestad

ClockCat wrote:

mellestad wrote:

REVLyle wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

REVLyle wrote:

He wants to cap salaries of people in the private sector, but if you work for government -  the sky is the limit

yeah, god knows government workers are rolling in filthy money.  nothing says "ka-ching!" like being a civil servant.  i know my ambition has always been to be a postmaster or circuit court clerk, then i can buy that fabulous pontoon boat on lake cumberland and take luxurious vacations to myrtle beach.

sigh...well, a guy can dream...

1% of americans are millionaires while 44% of congress are millionaires.

210 million dollar bonuses to be handed out to Fannie and Freddie Mac.  Government run.  We bailed them out as well.

Congress gets another pay raise of $4,700 this year while unemployment goes over 10% and is really closer to 18%.

I, in no way believe that all who work for the government get rich . . . but many do.  Why is it in a recession that the government continues to hire like there is no tomorrow?

 

 

Again, hyperbole.  How many of those 44% were millionaires *before* they became congress critters (hint, most of them)?  I won't argue that wealth buys power, but saying political power buys wealth...private sector folks make more than these guys do.  If all they wanted was money they would be CEOs.

 

I think I'm going to refer to this from now on as Obama Derangement Syndrome. "One "nontroversy" after another, followed by the outrage of the day, followed by conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory, all delivered in breathless, angry prose that's just wearying and depressing to read." as said by former right wing blogger Charles Johnson.

 

 

I don't get it.  I couldn't stand Bush, and I thought some of his policies were possibly criminal (Although I voted for him the first time).  But I never had the kind of frothing rage I see so much of on conservative forums right now about Obama.  Maybe I'm just too moderate, but I just don't get it.

I even have relatives who will rant about how Obama's tax increases have been hurting the country....when there have not been any tax increases!  It blows my mind.  I know there are plenty of stupid liberals but I don't see so much unthinking opposition in the populace.  (I do see it in congress though, but that is a different thing)

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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He has done nothing

You might want to check out the SNL skit about Obama because it was as accurate as it gets - no matter what CNN says.

I will address several issues.  By the way . . . I don't listen to Beck, Rush, or Hannity.

Let me help you out a little bit.

Why don't I like Obama . . . because he is a fake.

Point 1 - He tells everyone he is about the little man.  He is about helping those who are down and out. . . and yet his life does not prove that.  Between the years of 2000-2006 he gave as little as .4% (yes, that is a decimal) to charities and only up to 6.1%  . . . as he got closer to running for president in 2006.  But as he certainly believes in giving your money and my money to others.  That way his name is praised.

Point 2 - He is a liar.  He lied about Reverend Wright.  In the church for 20 years and said he didn't know what he stood for, RIGHT!!!! 

He lied about taking money from DC lobbiest.

He lied about barely knowing Rezco

Obama lied about barely knowing Blagojevich

He is simply a pathological liar.

Point 3 - The Nobel prize.  Dude, you really need to cut back on the drugs.  Let me quote to you the opening sentence on the TIME article concerning the peace prize (remember they love him) -

The last thing Barack Obama needed at this moment in his presidency and our politics is a prize for a promise.   Read more: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1929395,00.html#ixzz0WheUtkQC

The article goes on to say . . . By now there are surely more callouses on his lips than his hands . . . and you will love this one . . . But even his fans know that none of the dreams have yet come true, and a prize for even dreaming them can feed the illusion that they have. PBO has done nothing in Israel, nothing in Iraq, nothing about Iran and nothing in Afganistan.  disarmament . . . you have got to be joking.  Who has put down any arms because of Obama? 

Point 4 - He has not closed Gitmo - He has talked about it . . . but the prisoners are still there.

Point 5 - His fictional tales about jobs gained and saved . . . another bunch of lies.  Let me give you just one example, but if you need me to, I can give you plenty more.  Obama's administration stated that they saved 935 jobs at the Southwest Georgia Community Action Council.  GET READY FOR THIS . . . The council only employs 508 people.  Ah yes, our honest president.

Point 6 - Now I thought you guys hated Bush for domestic spying . . . and Obama was very critical of this issue as well.  BUT NOW, it seems OK with Obama and it seems ok with you guys as well.

Point 7 - I am not sure where to start on Healthcare . . . but I hope you have the money for it, because if you don't you will go to prison - Obama would not even condemn that possibility.  That is not a conservative or liberal issue . . . it is a freedom issue.

Point 8 - He shows no leadership.  Campaigning - A+    Leadership - F

Let me clarify one point.  I don't believe he is an idiot when it comes to everything in life.  I guess he might be good at law.  But he is an idiot when it comes to running our country, chosing his friends, and economics.  He has certainly proved that.

I know he has only been in office a year . . . but just wait - He will continue to prove he is way over his head.

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"Point 1 - He tells everyone

"Point 1 - He tells everyone he is about the little man."

And he's done everything he can to get the little man healthcare. His personal donations to charity are irrelevant.

"Point 2 - He is a liar. "

All politicians are liars. When he lies to cause an illegal war, come back and I might give a shit.

"Point 3 - The Nobel prize.  Dude, you really need to cut back on the drugs."
"Point 4 - He has not closed Gitmo"

Take your own advice and cut down on the drugs. If he hasn't closed Guantanamo by the end of his term, come back and I might give a shit.

"Point 5 - His fictional tales about jobs gained and saved "

Even if true, standard fare for politicians. Where was your outrage when Bush did it?

"Point 6 - Now I thought you guys hated Bush for domestic spying . . ."

That was hardly the only reason to hate Bush. But if it pisses you off so much, where were you when Bush IMPLEMENTED it in the first place? Hypocrisy is unbecoming.

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"Point 7 - I am not sure

"Point 7 - I am not sure where to start on Healthcare ."

*Snort*
Guess you don't know anything about it, let alone where to start.

"Point 8 - He shows no leadership."

Your opinion means so much to me. Not.

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Vastet wrote:And he's done

Vastet wrote:
And he's done everything he can to get the little man healthcare. His personal donations to charity are irrelevant.

I have noticed a phenomena in the US in which liberals are extremely generous with other people's money while simultaneously refusing to donate any of their own. I think it is valid to point out that Obama is 100% dedicated to helping out the poor so long as others are paying for it and he is about 1% dedicated (jumps to 6% right before the election to give an insincere impression of charitable actions) so long as he is paying for it. In terms of charitableness (% income given to charity) self identified conservatives FAR exceed self identified liberals. So in that sense Obama is quite like his liberal base of supports in his unwillingness to give. Unless by 'give' you really mean 'tax others to subsidise programs that boost my likelihood of re-election and also maybe coincidentally help some poor people.'

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
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Hmm. Liberals don't give

Hmm.
Liberals don't give money to charities.
Conservatives start illegal wars consuming hundreds of thousands of lives.

Yeah, they have sooooo much to offer.

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REVLyle wrote:You might want

REVLyle wrote:

You might want to check out the SNL skit about Obama because it was as accurate as it gets - no matter what CNN says.

You're basing an opinion on a television show????

Do you watch the Flintstones as if it were a documentary on prehistoric times?

 

REVLyle wrote:
I will address several issues.  By the way . . . I don't listen to Beck, Rush, or Hannity.

Doesn't matter. I watch the 700 club, it hasn't changed my opinion.

 

REVLyle wrote:
Let me help you out a little bit.

Why don't I like Obama . . . because he is a fake.

We shall see. I'll go point-by-point with you even though I did this earlier.

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 1 - He tells everyone he is about the little man.  He is about helping those who are down and out. . . and yet his life does not prove that.  Between the years of 2000-2006 he gave as little as .4% (yes, that is a decimal) to charities and only up to 6.1%  . . . as he got closer to running for president in 2006.  But as he certainly believes in giving your money and my money to others.  That way his name is praised.

I responded to this earlier. He is no different than a preacher seeking to get a congregation on his side. Politicians are almost required to do this.

REVLyle wrote:
Point 2 - He is a liar.  He lied about Reverend Wright.  In the church for 20 years and said he didn't know what he stood for, RIGHT!!!!

Wright's racist comments were publicly denounced by then candidate Obama several times. Did it ever occur to you that Jeremiah Wright, as an opportunist preacher, used his association with Obama to push his own views?

REVLyle wrote:
He lied about taking money from DC lobbiest.

Really? Do you know why people give money to people? They want something. When you have millions of dollars coming in, are you supposed to know whom every dollar comes from or use it to further the agenda that the people giving you the money agree with you on?

 

REVLyle wrote:
He lied about barely knowing Rezco

So without a doubt, you can call this man a liar. You declare you know without a doubt the extent of his knowledge of Tony Rezco? Even then, does that mean that Obama would engage in racketeering?

Comparative: Because Ted Haggard was W. Bush's spiritual advisor should that mean that Bush bought meth from a gay masseur?

 

REVLyle wrote:
Obama lied about barely knowing Blagojevich

He never said he 'barely knew him'. When the pay-for-play scandal hit, he publicly showed dismay and said that if it was true, he didn't know Blagojevich as well as he thought.

Twist words much?

REVLyle wrote:
He is simply a pathological liar.

AND YOU ARE BEARING FALSE WITNESS!

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 3 - The Nobel prize.  Dude, you really need to cut back on the drugs.  Let me quote to you the opening sentence on the TIME article concerning the peace prize (remember they love him) -

The last thing Barack Obama needed at this moment in his presidency and our politics is a prize for a promise.   Read more: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1929395,00.html#ixzz0WheUtkQC

The article goes on to say . . . By now there are surely more callouses on his lips than his hands . . . and you will love this one . . . But even his fans know that none of the dreams have yet come true, and a prize for even dreaming them can feed the illusion that they have. PBO has done nothing in Israel, nothing in Iraq, nothing about Iran and nothing in Afganistan.  disarmament . . . you have got to be joking.  Who has put down any arms because of Obama?

No other president has laid out the kinds of goals that connect with people on a global basis.

Granted. I would like to have seen them wait, but it's done. Get over it.

Elie Wiesel wrote a book decades after WWII and received a Peace Prize for essentially forgiving the german people, but not forgetting what was done. he gets a peace prize because he forgives?

REVLyle wrote:
Point 4 - He has not closed Gitmo - He has talked about it . . . but the prisoners are still there.

Nobody wants them. Their own countries don't even want them back. Any empty apartments on your block?

REVLyle wrote:
Point 5 - His fictional tales about jobs gained and saved . . . another bunch of lies.  Let me give you just one example, but if you need me to, I can give you plenty more.  Obama's administration stated that they saved 935 jobs at the Southwest Georgia Community Action Council.  GET READY FOR THIS . . . The council only employs 508 people.  Ah yes, our honest president.

You say 'his fictional tales' and then say 'Obama's administration'. Which the fuck is it? Him or Robert Gibbs or someone else??

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 6 - Now I thought you guys hated Bush for domestic spying . . . and Obama was very critical of this issue as well.  BUT NOW, it seems OK with Obama and it seems ok with you guys as well.

It hasn't worked anyway. In case you have been in a cave somewhere, Nidal Malik Hasan was 'spied' upon and they did nothing.

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 7 - I am not sure where to start on Healthcare . . . but I hope you have the money for it, because if you don't you will go to prison - Obama would not even condemn that possibility.  That is not a conservative or liberal issue . . . it is a freedom issue.

You    are    a     dumbfuck.

I posted the section of the bill dealing with taxing uninsured people. DID YOU FUCKING SEE ONE FUCKING PART THAT SAID JAIL IN IT?????? DID YOU EVEN TRY TO READ IT? Did your parents have any other children that lived?

 

REVLyle wrote:
Point 8 - He shows no leadership.  Campaigning - A+    Leadership - F

Whatever. He could step out on the podium and do slapstick comedy wearing a Charlie Chaplin costume and come off as more intelligent than you have in this post.

REVLyle wrote:
Let me clarify one point.  I don't believe he is an idiot when it comes to everything in life.  I guess he might be good at law.  But he is an idiot when it comes to running our country, chosing his friends, and economics.  He has certainly proved that.

I know he has only been in office a year . . . but just wait - He will continue to prove he is way over his head.

It hasn't been a year.

He was the best choice. It was the first time I EVER voted in my life because there was actually someone to vote FOR instead of picking the lesser of two evils.

OH! And if you're a 'birther' too, let me remind you that McCain was born in Panama.

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