Maine Gay Marriage Vote

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Maine Gay Marriage Vote

 Sad

 

http://newsok.com/dejection-fills-ballroom-after-gay-marriage-vote/article/3414563

Dejection fills ballroom after Maine gay marriage vote

By JOHN CURRAN, Associated Press Writer

Published: November 4, 2009

PORTLAND, Maine — Cecelia Burnett and Ann Swanson had already set their wedding date. When they joined about 1,000 other gay marriage supporters for an election night party in a Holiday Inn ballroom, they hoped to celebrate the vote that would make it possible.

Instead, they went home at midnight, dejected and near tears after a failed bid to make Maine the first state to approve same-sex marriage at the ballot box.

"I'm ready to start crying," said Burnett, a 58-year-old massage therapist, walking out of the ballroom with Swanson at her side. "I don't understand what the fear is, why people are so afraid of this change.

"It hurts. It hurts personally," she said. "It's a personal rejection of us and our relationship, and I don't understand what the fear is."

With 87 percent of precincts reporting, gay-marriage foes had 53 percent of the vote in a referendum that asked Maine voters whether they wanted to repeal a law allowing same-sex marriage that had passed the Legislature and was signed by Democratic Gov. John Baldacci.

"The institution of marriage has been preserved in Maine and across the nation," said Frank Schubert, the chief organizer for Stand for Marriage Maine, which lobbied for the repeal.

For the gay rights movement, which has gained a foothold in New England, it was a stinging defeat. Gay marriage has now lost in every state — 31 in all — in which it has been put to a popular vote. Gay-rights activists had hoped to buck that trend in Maine, framing same-sex marriage as a matter of equality for all families in a campaign that used 8,000 volunteers to get out the message.

Five states have legalized gay marriage — Iowa, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire and Connecticut — but all did so through legislation or court rulings, not by popular vote.

Portland resident Sarah Holman said she was torn, but decided — despite her conservative upbringing — to vote in favor of letting gays marry.

"They love and they have the right to love. And we can't tell somebody how to love," said Holman, 26.

While the gay marriage opponents claimed victory, Jesse Connolly, campaign manager for No on 1/Protect Maine Equality, held off conceding until early Wednesday, when he issued a statement vowing to continue to press the issue.

The fight for marriage equality will continue, he told supporters at the Holiday Inn ballroom, where a buffet table included a three-tiered wedding cake — with two grooms standing side by side, two brides standing side by side and the inscription: "We all do!"

"We're not short-timers. We're here for the long haul and whether it's just all night and into the morning, or it's next week or next month or next year. We will be here. We'll be here fighting. We'll be working. We will regroup."

For Burnett and Swanson, the July 10 wedding date — and a reception cruise on Casco Bay — is off.

 

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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And???

 

 

 

     I grew up in Maine,  now what is the question?   My curiousity is peaked.

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:<

this

 


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yeah i heard about that. I

yeah i heard about that. I think the problem is that the people who vote are the people who feel strongly about it. What reason does a straight person who thinks gays should be allowed to marry have to vote? Either way the person isn't affected. sure some will vote but lets face it it won't be the majority.

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WoW!

ClockCat wrote:

this

 

 

 

             I am surprised  since the state legislature passed an equal rights law and some gay weddings were performed in Maine.  btw gay weddings will still be legal untill January 6, 2010.  I hope lots of gays take advantage of that loop hole ASAP!!

 

 

              Likah ge-at moovin'yeah faggots,   o-ahr  e-else, yoo   betch-ah,  sho-nuff!!!.   Nowah   ahll yous  outtah statahs pleesh act cept my 'pologies for sucha stoopud ideah as  the Mainer votahs. { act promptly gay couples to wed as soon as possible. My appologies to any and all non-Mainers who are offende by this vote.}

 

 

             Howsha state law gonnah deal  witsa  current lawful marrys sinsah dah vote?   {How will Maine state law deal with all the several - now legal- marriges - now on the legal registry?}

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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ClockCat wrote: FuckYou

ClockCat wrote:

 

Fuck

You know there will be people that see that and think: "Gay Marriage taught in school = My kids will be turned gay"

Sometimes I hate people.  Eye-wink 

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Is this homophobia or the

Is this homophobia or the old fashioned hetero fear of committed relationships?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Here is what i don't

Here is what i don't understand...

 

If people voted to bring back slavery would it come back? NO! Discrimation is not allowed. How is denying marrige to gay people not discrimmination?

 

edit to fix crappy grammer

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


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Red faced. "sniffs"

 

 

 

                 I just saw the videos of the pro-hate campaign;  I feel nothing but shame and  apollogize profusely. I never voted in Maine {19+ years I lived there}  but that is not an excuse for how my neighbors voted.  I was so proud when the legislature voted for equal rights  now I am shamed.

 

 

                btw  the vote WILL over-ride the legislature but it can not take effect untill January 6, 2010.

 

 

                The next chance for sanity will be the first Tuesday of November in 2011.  Let us all hope for the best.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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Religious can't consider

Religious can't consider themselves married unless they have approval from the all powerful Mr. Invisible and their church.

We must all become slaves to the government. We are not allowed to consider ourselves married unless we get the approval of the all powerful government, to whom give our lives by letting them take all our income and decide our heathcare. Unless we get that piece of paper from the government we can't be whole people.

How about banning all marriage strait and gay?

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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SORRY!!!

 

 

 

          My fathers two best friends  Earl  and Frank  were gay,  I didn't know it then  but I realized it later as an adult,   Frank and Earl never met each other. They were just two guys who were gay in the same small town in central Maine and mom & dad didn't give a rats ass, nor did anyone else in Brewer.  I am schocked that anyone in Maine would get so opinionated over who someone else is sleeping with.  My home town is the same home town that Joshua Lawrence Chamberlin (the civil war hero} grew up in.    How could such a FUCKING (I rarley use that word) indecency happen at MY HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

         Appologys all around.

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VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

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EXC wrote:

Religious can't consider themselves married unless they have approval from the all powerful Mr. Invisible and their church.

We must all become slaves to the government. We are not allowed to consider ourselves married unless we get the approval of the all powerful government, to whom give our lives by letting them take all our income and decide our heathcare. Unless we get that piece of paper from the government we can't be whole people.

How about banning all marriage strait and gay?

 

What good will this do when they can't get benefits in every other nation on the planet?

 

Or for that matter, have benefits when a couple that is from elsewhere comes to the U.S.?

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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ClockCat wrote: What good

ClockCat wrote:

 

What good will this do when they can't get benefits in every other nation on the planet?

 

Or for that matter, have benefits when a couple that is from elsewhere comes to the U.S.?

Why the hell is it anyone's business (especially the government) who I'm fucking or who I'm living with? Just treat everyone as individuals with the same rights single or married.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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 Click here to find your local MPBN station

 

The race is tight and this is a great opportunity for our voice to be heard. Remember, there are real, negative consequences to legalizing same-sex marriage that the listeners and viewers can learn from your questions and comments!

Here are some pointers and messages to remember when calling in:

 

  • Make your comment brief and to the point
  • Remember that LD 1020 is their bill, they had every opportunity to expressly prohibit gay marriage from being taught in schools but they did not
  • The state Department of Education admits there is nothing prohibiting schools from teaching about same-sex marriage
  • There is already the infrastructure to advance gay issues in the schools including the Gay Straight Alliance that operates in schools across Maine, and the Gay Lesbian School Education Network
  • If Question 1 fails, homosexual marriage will not become equal to traditional marriage because traditional marriage will be totally eliminated. Marriage will be genderless. It will exist solely for the benefit of adults

Call and email early for a better chance at getting in the queue! Tune in to make sure your voice is heard on this critical issue.

 

from http://www.standformarriagemaine.com/?p=568

 

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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EXC wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

 

What good will this do when they can't get benefits in every other nation on the planet?

 

Or for that matter, have benefits when a couple that is from elsewhere comes to the U.S.?

Why the hell is it anyone's business (especially the government) who I'm fucking or who I'm living with? Just treat everyone as individuals with the same rights single or married.

 

So please explain how you will go about abolishing marriage in every country on the planet.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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???

 

 

 

           Has no one heard mt apollogise!!!!!!!!!!!

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

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ClockCat wrote:So please

ClockCat wrote:

So please explain how you will go about abolishing marriage in every country on the planet.

I suppose it would have to start with teaching children critical thinking skills.

Then you ask them as adults to justify why a couple needs to have their relationship be certified by God, church or state. Ask them why it's OK to grant rights to 'married' couples and not to 'single' couples. Ask them why we shouldn't just treat everyone as individuals, why does the government need to have a special catagory for 'married' people that discriminates against those that are not 'married'.

If this could be done, then this ridiculous idea that god, church or state needs to certifiy one's relationships with other people could be eliminated.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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EXC wrote:Religious can't

EXC wrote:

Religious can't consider themselves married unless they have approval from the all powerful Mr. Invisible and their church.

We must all become slaves to the government. We are not allowed to consider ourselves married unless we get the approval of the all powerful government, to whom give our lives by letting them take all our income and decide our heathcare. Unless we get that piece of paper from the government we can't be whole people.

How about banning all marriage strait and gay?

<WISE ASS MODE ON>

Be careful about advocating that too strongly - you might not be able to find anyone to carry on your lineage.

<WISE ASS MODE OFF>

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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EXC wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

So please explain how you will go about abolishing marriage in every country on the planet.

I suppose it would have to start with teaching children critical thinking skills.

Then you ask them as adults to justify why a couple needs to have their relationship be certified by God, church or state. Ask them why it's OK to grant rights to 'married' couples and not to 'single' couples. Ask them why we shouldn't just treat everyone as individuals, why does the government need to have a special catagory for 'married' people that discriminates against those that are not 'married'.

If this could be done, then this ridiculous idea that god, church or state needs to certifiy one's relationships with other people could be eliminated.

 

 

So I assume you have the funding and clout to "re-educate" the entire planet? How do you plan to start these "re-education" centers? And gain approval of them in every nation?

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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Jeffrick wrote:

 

 

 

           Has no one heard mt apollogise!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

You are forgiven for calling that place home, but the state is not for being homophobic to the point it needs to take away other people's rights.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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Hehe there are a few gems in

Hehe there are a few gems in here

 

50 Best reasons Gay Marriage is wrong!

1. Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, birth control and air conditioning.

2. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

3. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

4. Marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all: women are property, matches are arranged in childhood, blacks can't marry whites, Catholics can't marry Jews, divorce is illegal, and adultery is punishable by death

5. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

6. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

8. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

9. If we look to the word of God, His punishment for sexual immorality is equal to that of murder. Therefore, teaching kids to tolerate homosexuality is equal to teaching them to tolerate murder.

10. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy (insurance, government, tourism, banking, retail, education, and social services), suburban malls, or longer life spans.

12. Gay marriage should be decided by people not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.

13. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a “seperate but equal” institution is always constitutional. Seperate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as seperate marriages for gays and lesbians will.

14. There is no separation between religious marriage and legal marriage, because there is no separation of church and state.

15. Devout, faithful Anglicans should never accept same-sex marriage, because it is an affront to the traditional family values upheld by Henry VIII and his wife, Catherine of Aragon, and his wife, Anne Boleyn, and his wife, Jane Seymour, and his wife, Anne of Cleves, and his wife, Catherine Howard, and his wife, Catherine Parr. They all knew the meaning of marriage and none of them lost their heads over the matter.

16. Married gay people will encourage others to be gay, in a way that unmarried gay people do not.

17. Legalizing gay marriage will lead to legalizing dog marriage. This can be inferred from the history of other political initiatives for gender equality. For example, when American women got the right to vote in 1920, it led to terriers voting in 1925, and when Title IX was passed in 1972 to prevent sex discrimination in any federally-funded school, resulting in the creation of athletic opportunities for girls, it led to Bichon Frises on the basketball court during the Reagan administration.

18. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to legislative change in general, which could possibly include the legalization of polygamy, incest, medical marijuana, and unmuzzled pit bulls. Because we don’t know what might come down the next slippery slope, we should never change any law.

19. Legal marriage will inspire gays to mimic straight traditions, such as spiritual commitment ceremonies and celebratory parties, which is currently impermissible for them to do and which they have never done before.

20. Marriage is designed to protect the well-being of children. Gay people do not need marriage because they never have children from prior relationships, artificial insemination, surrogacy, or adoption.

21. Civil unions are a good option because "separate but equal" institutions are always constitutional. In fact, compared with marriage, civil unions are so attractive that straight people are calling dibs on them.

22. A man should not be able to marry whomever a woman can marry, and a woman should not be able to marry whomever a man can marry, because in this country we do not believe in gender equality.

23. If gays marry, some of straight people's tax dollars would end up supporting families whose structure they may find morally objectionable. Clearly, it is more just to continue taking gay people's tax dollars to support straight families, who are going to heaven regardless of what anyone else thinks of them.

24. Gays should hold off on the marriage question until society is more accepting of them, because they are not part of society.

25. The people's voice must be heard on this issue. Therefore, we must have a vote on a federal constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage, because we can't think of any other way to discuss the issue.

26. Each state should decide for itself whether gay marriage will be recognized, because there is no "full faith and credit" clause that requires states to recognize each other's institutions.

27. Gay marriage attempts to replace natural heterosexual instinct with a cultural institution. Morality demands that we subordinate institutionalized commitment to raw, unfettered, biological impulse.

28. Gay marriages could very well suffer maladies like domestic violence and substance abuse. That's why we invented the Quality Control department to pre-approve the righteousness of all marriage applicants.

29. Those who support gay marriage aim to overthrow the dominant culture, as evidenced by their enthusiasm to participate in it.

30. If the state performs gay marriages, Christians might become more liberal and divide into more mutually opposed parties. Since the government is an arm of the church and is responsible for keeping the peace in Christian leadership councils, it should not get involved with gay marriage.

31. After gay marriage was legalized in Scandinavian countries in 2004, more heterosexual couples realized they wanted to live together and bear children without marrying first. Banning gay marriage is a good way to prevent this practice, as is banning independent thought and mandating straight marriage by age 21.

32. Heterosexual marriage was invented in the Biblical book of Genesis. Written somewhere between 1500 and 500 BCE, Genesis came as a great relief to people in many cultures, such as China, who, prior to 1500 BCE, sat around waiting for the Mesopotamians to invent the family unit.

33. Gay marriage would allow more partners and children to sign onto the family breadwinner's healthcare plan. Given that 44 million Americans do not have health insurance, it is safe to say that health insurance is not an American value.

34. The possibility of getting a gay marriage might encourage some married heterosexuals to divorce and seek a gay union instead. These marriages were obviously happy and successful, and the justices who provide gay second marriages should be charged with alienation of affection.

35. Gay marriage may hurl the populace into existential crisis and cause spontaneous divorces. Divorce triggers our moral hemorrhaging, but we will keep it legal. It is easier to seek the criminalization of gay marriage than the criminalization of divorce, particularly because most of us have had a few divorces.

36. Gay marriage is tainted because some of the applicants might be divorcees marrying for the second time. We oppose remarriage, and would like to ensure that no one marries more than once; therefore we will oppose the entire institution of marriage, to ensure that no one ever marries at all. That casts the net wide enough to catch all the would-be second-timers.

37. The people have the right to demand to vote on a Massachusetts constitutional amendment against gay marriage. There is no reason for proposed amendments to go through the state Legislature first, as is constitutionally required, because the Legislature doesn't spend all that many paid hours sitting around discussing the legal ramifications on behalf of ordinary citizens who are too busy with their own jobs to figure out everything at stake.

38. The arguments for gay marriage are flawed because Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry has made inconsistent statements about gay marriage, and he is known for his consistency on other issues.

39. Married gay couples will find it easier to adopt children, who might then be bullied and teased by other children for who their parents are. This reflects poorly on the judgment of gays who adopt children with the risk that their child could possibly be teased. It does not, of course, imply anything about the responsibilities of heterosexual parents, whose children only pick up rocks for geological interest and couldn't have been listening when their parents made those comments about their neighbors.

40. Children of married gay couples might suffer bullying and teasing more often than children of unmarried gay couples, because playground bullies are sensitive to the nuances of contract law.

41. It is reasonable and fair to institute "civil unions" that provide all the rights and responsibilities of marriage, but we cannot apply the holy, mystical word "marriage" to this contract. Deriving from the Latin maritare, "marriage" evokes the dignity of the typical Roman man who engaged in licentious sex with both sexes until he reached middle age, at which time he maritared a teenage girl to bear his children.

42. According to the three proposed "compromise" Massachusetts constitutional amendments defeated by the Legislature on Feb. 11 and 12, 2004, the best way to "protect the unique relationship of [heterosexual] marriage" is to institute civil unions that are in every way identical to it.

43. God created the institution of marriage, just after he created 2.9% APR automobile financing, student loans, HMOs, and divorce.

44. We must defer to the President's opinion on gay marriage, since the Republican party was given its authority by God. As it is written: "Republican and Democrat created He them." Paul elaborated: "Democrats, submit to the Republican."

45. In San Francisco, where renegade officials have married same-sex couples for the past several weeks, experts suggest that the city may suffer an earthquake in about ten years. Geological experts, that is. But good Christians don't recognize the opinion of Earth scientists, who falsely claim the Earth is 4.5 billion years old; they get their seismic information from their preachers, who say the earthquake's coming next week.

46. Allowing same-sex marriage could increase gay public displays of affection, because marriage has historically been proven to stimulate couples' interest in sex.

47. Making civil marriage available to same-sex couples could spur the wedding industry, and businesses would sure hate to pay taxes on all that profit.

48. Straight men are opposed to gay marriage because they would prefer that gay men try to be straight and compete with them for access to women, trimming down the pool of eligible dates to make courtship more challenging and exciting.

49. The country can't afford to provide benefits for any more married couples. That's why President Bush would never consider spending $150 million on programs that encourage more straight people to get married.

50. Gay marriage is wrong because children might be led to think that it is right and that would clearly be wrong.
 

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


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I'm with you Clock Cat.

I'm with you Clock Cat. Don't lose hope yet. Here in Washington it looks like almost marriage is going to pass by a narrow margin. Wisconsin passed gay rights bill and in Houston the mayoral race is apparently going to a run off, and one of the top contenders is openly gay. In Houston! 

The bigots are a dying breed that only manage to pass their violations of human dignity and religious freedom by the narrowest of margins. Meanwhile future generations are growing up knowing gay people and understanding that they're not the monsters some people try to paint them as.

This isn't over.

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but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
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Like California, outside

Like California, outside money and outside crazies outspent and outpushed the opponents of the referendum in the propaganda, like the ads posted. The Portland archdiocese and Focus on the Family and its sub groups poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into the campaign. The vote was close, but in the end, the religious right won a victory in Maine yesterday.

Although, we did pass a new law for medical marijuana!

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The Catholic Church spent

The Catholic Church spent $550,000 to get this crushed. I think it's time they lose their tax-exempt status.


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rab wrote:

Like California, outside money and outside crazies outspent and outpushed the opponents of the referendum in the propaganda, like the ads posted. The Portland archdiocese and Focus on the Family and its sub groups poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into the campaign. The vote was close, but in the end, the religious right won a victory in Maine yesterday.

Although, we did pass a new law for medical marijuana!

 

Why do Maine pot smokers hate gays?

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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ClockCat wrote:rab

ClockCat wrote:

rab wrote:

Like California, outside money and outside crazies outspent and outpushed the opponents of the referendum in the propaganda, like the ads posted. The Portland archdiocese and Focus on the Family and its sub groups poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into the campaign. The vote was close, but in the end, the religious right won a victory in Maine yesterday.

Although, we did pass a new law for medical marijuana!

 

Why do Maine pot smokers hate gays?

They're not doing it right*!

 

 

 

 

 

 

*When properly administered marijuana eliminates all anger, its a fact.


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How can you 'teach' gay

How can you 'teach' gay marriage?  ...... : /


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It's all part of the gay

It's all part of the gay agenda.  Have faith.

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Thomathy wrote:

It's all part of the gay agenda.  Have faith.

 

 


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This is why gay marriage was

This is why gay marriage was overturned in Maine:

http://www.bangordailynews.com/external/Question1/Vote2009GraphicFINAL.pdf

Maine is very much a rural state. You can see that support for gay marriage is concentrated in larger population centers.

 

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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geirj wrote:

This is why gay marriage was overturned in Maine:

http://www.bangordailynews.com/external/Question1/Vote2009GraphicFINAL.pdf

Maine is very much a rural state. You can see that support for gay marriage is concentrated in larger population centers.

 

 

In other words, bigotry thrives where they don't have to see the people suffering as a result.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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ClockCat wrote:So I assume

ClockCat wrote:

So I assume you have the funding and clout to "re-educate" the entire planet? How do you plan to start these "re-education" centers? And gain approval of them in every nation?

I don't have a plan to "re-educate" anyone. It's kind of like religion, you don't have a plan to eliminate religion and "re-educate" people with atheism.

All I can do is ask people to give a rational justification for having the government sanction marriage or ask people why they need a piece of paper from the government to call themselves married. It can't be done, so hopefully more people will realize this and dump this silly debate over gay marriage. Unless you have a slave mentality, you don't the government to allow you to marry.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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EXC wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

So I assume you have the funding and clout to "re-educate" the entire planet? How do you plan to start these "re-education" centers? And gain approval of them in every nation?

I don't have a plan to "re-educate" anyone. It's kind of like religion, you don't have a plan to eliminate religion and "re-educate" people with atheism.

All I can do is ask people to give a rational justification for having the government sanction marriage or ask people why they need a piece of paper from the government to call themselves married. It can't be done, so hopefully more people will realize this and dump this silly debate over gay marriage. Unless you have a slave mentality, you don't the government to allow you to marry.

 

So you want to deny gays the right to marry because...you don't like marriage?

 

Way to go. What a perfect excuse for trying to hide bigotry. I bet you can get all of the religious right on that train.

 

 

 

Pro tip: preventing one group access to the civil institution of marriage is a dick move. This is true even if you don't like marriage.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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ClockCat wrote:So you want

ClockCat wrote:

So you want to deny gays the right to marry because...you don't like marriage?

 

I don't like the idea of anonymous government bureaucrats controlling my life. So I don't like them telling me I must go to their doctors or telling me I'm not married unless they say so.

You don't get it. I'm an unabashed hedonist. So if being married is what gives you a thrill, go for it(gay or strait). If being single is what makes you happy, go for it. I just don't need church or state to tell me when I'm married or approve of my relationship. The hole gay marriage debate is ridiculous because it just shows what sheep people really are. So what I don't like is this sheepishness and lack of independence that leads to people being slaves to religion, government or the healthcare industry.

I have my own opinions about marriage and monogamy. Unfortunately relationships have been poisoned by things like religion and traditions that have little use in modern society.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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EXC wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

So you want to deny gays the right to marry because...you don't like marriage?

 

I don't like the idea of anonymous government bureaucrats controlling my life. So I don't like them telling me I must go to their doctors or telling me I'm not married unless they say so.

You don't get it. I'm an unabashed hedonist. So if being married is what gives you a thrill, go for it(gay or strait). If being single is what makes you happy, go for it. I just don't need church or state to tell me when I'm married or approve of my relationship. The hole gay marriage debate is ridiculous because it just shows what sheep people really are. So what I don't like is this sheepishness and lack of independence that leads to people being slaves to religion, government or the healthcare industry.

I have my own opinions about marriage and monogamy. Unfortunately relationships have been poisoned by things like religion and traditions that have little use in modern society.

 

So why are you trying to dick over one small subgroup of people exactly? Sorry, I don't quite understand how you reason "I don't like the civil institution of marriage so gays shouldn't be able to get married."

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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ClockCat wrote:So why are

ClockCat wrote:

So why are you trying to dick over one small subgroup of people exactly? Sorry, I don't quite understand how you reason "I don't like the civil institution of marriage so gays shouldn't be able to get married."

There is no reason any government need to sanction anyone's relationship gay or strait. The government has no business having any interest in whom anyone has a person relationship. The only exception I could see is if a couple decides to bring a child into the world that could potentially become a responsibility and burden to others.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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EXC wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

So why are you trying to dick over one small subgroup of people exactly? Sorry, I don't quite understand how you reason "I don't like the civil institution of marriage so gays shouldn't be able to get married."

There is no reason any government need to sanction anyone's relationship gay or strait. The government has no business having any interest in whom anyone has a person relationship. The only exception I could see is if a couple decides to bring a child into the world that could potentially become a responsibility and burden to others.

 

 

 

Ahhh. So here it is. You believe your bigotry is okay because you are now claiming marriage has something to do with children.

 

Got it. 

 

It doesn't make you any less of a dick. Or right, for that matter. 

 

You don't want gays to get married because they can't produce children. Are you against gay adoption too?

 

What about straight couples that can't have children, will you rail against them too?

 

Since that is never going to comes up as an issue, you conveniently will never have to. Yeah, I can see all the religious right jumping on this train.

 

By the way, good job at hiding your reasoning in the other threads before. At least now you are being honest.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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ClockCat wrote:Ahhh. So here

ClockCat wrote:

Ahhh. So here it is. You believe your bigotry is okay because you are now claiming marriage has something to do with children.

Got it. 

 

No. You completely misunderstand me. I don't believe in bigotry against anyone strait or gay. Single or 'married'. You however seem to be OK with bigotry against single people.

I don't believe in the right to breed, especially if I'm forced to pay to raise other people's children with things like their healthcare. So their needs to be some regulation of couples and singles that choose to have children, gay and strait. I have no problem with gay people adopting, cloning or inseminating as long as they don't expect me to pay for their little ones. 

 

ClockCat wrote:

You don't want gays to get married because they can't produce children. Are you against gay adoption too?

What about straight couples that can't have children, will you rail against them too?

 

Only if they bring children into the world that become my burden. Gays can have children now with cloning and insemination.

 

ClockCat wrote:

Since that is never going to comes up as an issue, you conveniently will never have to. Yeah, I can see all the religious right jumping on this train.

 

I'm against their god given rights to breed, own land and wage war. I hardly think the religious right would be my in corner. I'm opposed to anything being a unconditional right that imposes and burden, restriction or obligation on others.

But if someone can't be happy without a piece of paper from the state saying they're married, that's their problem, not mine. What I am getting out of supporting their slavish need to get government approval?

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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EXC wrote:

But if someone can't be happy without a piece of paper from the state saying they're married, that's their problem, not mine. What I am getting out of supporting their slavish need to get government approval?

 

What are you getting out of blocking gays from having access to marriage? Really?

 

Are you just posting here to troll and say "I don't care about your plight"? 

 

Is it fun to get in the way of other people's pursuit of happiness, even when it has nothing to do with you?

 

Do you enjoy watching one couple not share all the same legal rights as the next couple, because you don't agree with the legal rights?

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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ClockCat wrote:What are you

ClockCat wrote:

What are you getting out of blocking gays from having access to marriage? Really?

 

Are you just posting here to troll and say "I don't care about your plight"?

I'm not blocking them from doing anything. I just don't see the role of government is to hand out pieces of paper with magic words just to make happy.

This reminds of the slavery days when the master had to approve of his Negros marriage in order for them to married. But I guess this is what I should expect from someone that has no problem handing over all his liberty, income and personal choice to the government.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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SSBBJunky wrote:How can you

SSBBJunky wrote:

How can you 'teach' gay marriage?  ...... : /

I live in California. During the Prop 8 campaign the 'Yes on 8' (so 'no' on gay marriage) people spread the lie that if Prop 8 failed then children would be taught in school that gay marriage is a good thing. So there have actually been extremely expensive and successful political campaigns in my state based on the lie that children will be taught about the rightness of gay marriage if Prop 8 fails. I suppose it would be possible to teach in school that gay marriage is just the same thing is straight marriage, but no one had planned on doing that anyways. But lies and expensive advertisement campaigns won the vote so Prop 8 passed.

Yay for politics and a system in which the majority can, by popular vote, strip rights away from an unpopular minority and get rid of state constitutionally protected marriage rights. The founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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EXC wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

What are you getting out of blocking gays from having access to marriage? Really?

 

Are you just posting here to troll and say "I don't care about your plight"?

I'm not blocking them from doing anything. I just don't see the role of government is to hand out pieces of paper with magic words just to make happy.

This reminds of the slavery days when the master had to approve of his Negros marriage in order for them to married. But I guess this is what I should expect from someone that has no problem handing over all his liberty, income and personal choice to the government.

 

Because obviously allowing the option for gays to marry has everything to do with handing over liberty, income, and personal choice to a government. And obviously it has something to do with slaves. 

 

Not two people that may want to be legally recognized as married, along with the social connotations that make them one unit, two people tied together. Nope, not that. Not at all.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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Jormungander wrote:

SSBBJunky wrote:

How can you 'teach' gay marriage?  ...... : /

I live in California. During the Prop 8 campaign the 'Yes on 8' (so 'no' on gay marriage) people spread the lie that if Prop 8 failed then children would be taught in school that gay marriage is a good thing. So there have actually been extremely expensive and successful political campaigns in my state based on the lie that children will be taught about the rightness of gay marriage if Prop 8 fails. I suppose it would be possible to teach in school that gay marriage is just the same thing is straight marriage, but no one had planned on doing that anyways. But lies and expensive advertisement campaigns won the vote so Prop 8 passed.

Yay for politics and a system in which the majority can, by popular vote, strip rights away from an unpopular minority and get rid of state constitutionally protected marriage rights. The founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

 

I agree. Two wolves and a sheep in democracy, having a vote of what is for dinner.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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Jormungander wrote:The

Jormungander wrote:

The founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

The same founding fathers that went along with slavery as an institution because it was a tradition that needed to be accomodated. Treated some people as only 3/5 of a person. Kind like what society does to single people today.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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EXC wrote:The same founding

EXC wrote:

The same founding fathers that went along with slavery as an institution because it was a tradition that needed to be accomodated. Treated some people as only 3/5 of a person. Kind like what society does to single people today.

I suspected that someone would bring up slavery. Every time someone brings up a good idea that the founding fathers had, the standard dismissal is "but they had teh slavery!!!!1 lol. who cares what they think?" I get the feeling that the implied argument is "the founding fathers had this one bad thing (poor treatement of blacks), so therefore every idea they ever had is bad and you shouldn't be bringing them up." They had some good ideas and they had a horrible problem with regards to their ambivalence about slavery. I'm still going to point out their good ideas and their lack of aggressive opposition to slavery doesn't negate their other better actions and ideas.

So sure, they owned slaves and only half-heartedly supported the ending of the institution of slavery. That was very wrong of them. Also, on a seperate note, they meant for things to be set up so that a simple majority couldn't vote away basic rights. That was a great idea and we should be following it today. Non sequiturs about slavery won't change that.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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Jormungander wrote:SSBBJunky

Jormungander wrote:

SSBBJunky wrote:

How can you 'teach' gay marriage?  ...... : /

I live in California. During the Prop 8 campaign the 'Yes on 8' (so 'no' on gay marriage) people spread the lie that if Prop 8 failed then children would be taught in school that gay marriage is a good thing. So there have actually been extremely expensive and successful political campaigns in my state based on the lie that children will be taught about the rightness of gay marriage if Prop 8 fails. I suppose it would be possible to teach in school that gay marriage is just the same thing is straight marriage, but no one had planned on doing that anyways. But lies and expensive advertisement campaigns won the vote so Prop 8 passed.

Yay for politics and a system in which the majority can, by popular vote, strip rights away from an unpopular minority and get rid of state constitutionally protected marriage rights. The founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

 

I'm still baffled every time I hear about rights being put to a popular vote. If they were as gung ho on this idea back in sixties as we are today, we'd still have government endorsed legal segregation in some states. No doubt. This practice is a horrible idea no matter how you look at it. 

Rill


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Jormungander wrote:So sure,

Jormungander wrote:

So sure, they owned slaves and only half-heartedly supported the ending of the institution of slavery. That was very wrong of them. Also, on a seperate note, they meant for things to be set up so that a simple majority couldn't vote away basic rights. That was a great idea and we should be following it today. Non sequiturs about slavery won't change that.

Our disputes have all become what is a right? The founding fathers essentially went along with the 'right' to own Negro slaves. Marriage is essentially a privilege. It creates a special class of people that have privileges and rights that single people don't have.

So if I may use the slavery analogy. This would be like during the slavery era asking people to support the right for Chinese people own Negro slaves as well as white people. How can you call marriage a right if it denies these same privileges to single people? So if you're going to dig up the founding fathers, let's not repeat the same mistake they made.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca