God is Real!

BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
God is Real!

 My name is Badway and I believe in God, Elohim, Allah or whatever you wish to refer to the higher Deity. I understand how easy it is to be atheist or even agnostic , especially in this day and time however, the evidence of Gods' existence is too overwhelming to push under the rug of disbelief. I'm not here to make enemies nor convert for as a believer in God I also believe in freewill for He Himself is the Author of it. The Bible is merely a book not in so much as a book of laws but a handbook on how to live and treat each other and nature itself. The book is an inspirational work of literary art written by various authors to report their divine relationship with their creator. The Bible does not conflict with the theory of evolution nor contradicts it but does emphasize our development as we understand it. Many of the stories in this book are parables and allegories meant to relate our minds to our experiences and learn the message that is to be gained from it. Many of these stories are not meant to be taken as fact which is usually the main reason "Christians" and non theists supporters debate almost ironically religiously. The belief in God is not religion nor the acceptance of Christ as their Lord and savior but yet man has made a religion of it. The Messiah preached against religion so The Christ and atheists are in agreement. In other words religion is wrong whether it be Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Wiccan, or Voodoo too name a few. I know many atheist will contend such facts as Zoroastorism being a precursor to Christianity and that some of it's precepts may have come from that including Islam as well. The Bible speaks of God's nemesis the devil as being the father of lies which stands to reason that all of our alleged knowledge of particular subjects may have been authored by the evil one himself. It is okay to question, I do it all the time, however it is not okay to deny your God or His love excuse me unlimited love for each and every one of you. I will respect all of you who wish to correspond with me but let it be known I am no expert on God's holy word or any other subject, I am a believer because of things in my life that have transpired and luck nor coincidence can justify it. Bless you all and good luck to all of you. Sincerely yours Badway...it's kind of funny though when you think about the word atheist..break it down and you have A Theist..I'd like to think that's a practical joke planted by your pick..either God or Devil but it's ironic no matter how you look at it..maybe more appropo would be non-theist...take care hope to hear from you...

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


Stosis
Posts: 327
Joined: 2008-10-21
User is offlineOffline
Ok, skimmed through that a

Ok, skimmed through that a little. I agree that religion is a much bigger problem than god-belief. It seems that with individuals acting alone, or in small groups, not too much harm can be done. I do, however, still think that any unjustified belief can be harmful because it deludes the individual.

 

Sorry I can't really say much. Would you mind reposting this with paragraphs to make it easier to read?


ClockCat
ClockCat's picture
Posts: 2265
Joined: 2009-03-26
User is offlineOffline
:I

 wall of text crits you for 9999.


Jeffrick
High Level DonorRational VIP!SuperfanGold Member
Jeffrick's picture
Posts: 2399
Joined: 2008-03-25
User is onlineOnline
Badway

 

 

         I'm curious could you elaborate on your  "evidence of gods existence".    I've  never seen any myself with over 40  years of looking.  And your charactor christos (which is a title not a name) never realy existed ,  it is just a conglomeration of several myths and maybe even a few real preachers, but no   one person named Jesu christos.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


Thomathy
SuperfanBronze Member
Thomathy's picture
Posts: 1861
Joined: 2007-08-20
User is offlineOffline
You need to do a bit better

You need to do a bit better to convince me to believe in your figment of the imagination.  I won't hold my breath.

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


EdwardNortonFan
Posts: 34
Joined: 2009-10-14
User is offlineOffline
"The Bible is merely a book

"The Bible is merely a book not in so much as a book of laws but a handbook on how to live and treat each other and nature itself. The book is an inspirational work of literary art written by various authors to report their divine relationship with their creator."

 

You mean aside from all the murder and punishment?


ClockCat
ClockCat's picture
Posts: 2265
Joined: 2009-03-26
User is offlineOffline
:|

 I can't believe I actually highlighted each line to read this unintelligible drivel. 

 

 

What a waste of my time. "I don't think Christianity is a religion, but believe God and his holy Bible and you should too because he <3s you."

 

 

Also, a basic study of language would help you understanding why "a" in front of a word that comes from latin, means "without". It means literally, "without god". (a - theos)

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
God is real

 First of all sir thank you for responding. Secondly, I never referred to the Christ or Messiah as Jesu Christos. Thirdly, in historic texts Jesus is mentioned throughout history. In Islam they not only believe that Jesus existed they also believe He had a supernatural birth. Is the image you see often of Jesus wrong? Yes, without any question. In fact, I often refer to the second commandment that forbids any iconic imagery representing anything of or relating to Heaven. That means no pictures, paintings, figurines, statues etc. Again it is not the Christians per se responsibility to prove His divine existence rather you to be able to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that He doesn't. Even Charles Darwin was said to have believed in God before he died. However I can never prove that anymore than I could prove the conspiracy to kill JFK or 911.

For a myth to exist it must entirely be fabricated or be without truth. However the Bible clearly outlines actual places, peoples, battles and various other events that have transpired. Isiah 44 clearly states " He sitteth upon the circle of the Earth" long before Columbus, Amerigo Vespucci and others who sat sail to see if the World was flat shedding light to the fact the Earth is round. It was this verse that inspired Columbus to set sail upon his fortuitous journey. I already stated there are stories in the bible not to be taken literally but meant as a learning tool to aid us in our spiritual growth and understanding. The evidence that you look for can't be explained. It is an inherent knowledge that can only be attained as if listening to a radio station and getting the proper reception by finely tuning your spiritual dial. Atheists argue that nothing can have no beginning and no end however we know that a number line has no beginning or end. God is the ultimate scientist and mathematician so something as basic as our number line proves that  indeed something can have no beginning or end.

What sustains you? Food, the will to live, water...what is it, are you merely here by chance. Think about that! In this vast expanse we happened as a fluke...so there must be other flukes of nature out there..what are the odds that we just happened from some cosmic explosion that over billions of years ended up putting us in just the right spot to cause all the right ingredients to form out of some intergalactic cesspool. Do you realize that if the Earth formed as the theory of the Big Bang suggests..it would highly be improbable if not impossible. The Earth as a hot massive rock with no atmosphere mind you supposedly was able to contain the massive steam that developed clouds that brought forth acidic rain that sprung forth life as we know it. Without getting into to much detail that appears more like a myth than intelligent design. Everything here on Earth no matter how insignificant we think it may be has a purpose. That's suggests a purposeful design as opposed to the notion we were constructed as intricate life forms out of something so choatic.

Nothing can be put into organized structure from chaos without something or someone to organize it. Does a cluttered room clean itself?

True, God may not be as we envision, but then again if He thought it to be important He would have made it the theme of His Word. The second commandment shows us it is not important to know what he looks like..after all we were made in His image. God is like a diamond. A diamond has many facets to it and each facet with it's own brilliance..we are those facets of brilliant color and together we bestow that magnificent image of God for we were created in the image of Him.   

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13689
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
A god exists "by whatever

A god exists "by whatever name"

So?

You have AMA peer reviewed material independently verified proving the existence of a disembodied magical super brain that has no cerebellum or neurons. An invisible entity with no body that floats everywhere and nowhere at the same time, meddling in human affairs, like a child with army men in a sandbox?

I can't even do a fraction today to save my life, but nowhere in my academic  history did we study the replication of such a being.

Here is a better explanation. Humans have always liked the idea of a fictional super hero saving them so they make them up and believe them to be fact.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
God is real

 To Edward norton fan...how are you? Do you suggest there be no punishment for murder? No reprimand for those who commit a wrong?

The God believe it or not mentioned in the Bible is a God of Love and He has shown us mercy through offering us salvation. Wouldn't you want to have eternal peace and joy? Wouldn't that be something worth fighting for, after all isn't that what were doing here on Earth fighting for happiness, and peace of mind. Remember, many of the rules and laws mentioned in the bible are as a result of Man living apart from God. When Cain slew Abel he was punished but there was no law to show him that killing is wrong. Would you rather live in a world that has no moral code or punishment for violating ones right to live. God doesn't interfere with someones will to commit murder or rape because God is not a slave master. That is a manmade concept! And so we suffer because someone did us wrong but through our spiritual walk we can overcome the darkness that has engulfed our lives. Let's say I'm wrong, and I die and there is no heaven or hell..nothing lost except that I led a decent life and was kind to others and so on but if you were to die never accepting God or Jesus and you found out that He was true and real but by then it was too late...in other words it is better to be safe than sorry....thanks for responding!

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13689
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
You are letting your "sense

You are letting your "sense of awe" cloud your judgment.

There is lots of beauty in nature. But there is far more nastiness and waste in reality. For every sperm that makes it to the egg, there are millions more that do nothing. For every acorn that buds into a tree there are thousands more that rot.

You look up at the pretty dots in the clear night time sky and say wow? But if you took the space shuttle into orbit and took your helmet off during a space walk YOU WOULD BE A DUMB ASS!

I get the warm fuzzies when my cat is perched on my chest at night purring with content, but IT IS NOT MAGIC!

My cat purring is as magical as taking a shit. BOTH are natural. Good and bad that happen are NATURAL. There is no need to insert Superman vs Lex Luthor to explain either.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
God is real

 Hi Brian 37 good to hear from you...thanks for responding! Sorry to hear you can't do a fraction to save your life..let's hope it doesn't come down to that..haha.  I know it's hard to believe in a Being that is so not 1,2 or even 3rd dimensional. Super heroes are not necessarily comic book derived. One was in New York in 2006. Late December I believe,  a black man, father of two daughters jumped into a subway terminal to rescue am white man who fell in suffering from a seizure. The man was fighting his Superhero of sorts and as the train was hurtling towards them both, at the last minute the gentle man forced the other guy down as the train passed over them coming to a stop. The screams of his daughters and others who witnessed the event echoed through out the terminal as onlookers watched in utter horror. And then a voice underneath the train cried out.."WERE ALL RIGHT, WERE OK" I don't know about you but I when I think about that I almost cry..almost I'm a man and men don't cry...okay I cried it was cool to know that A man risked his life for another in spite of  possibly losing his family and life...in an age where most black people would have just let the white guy get run over..he put all if any animosity or hatred aside and saved a life at risk of losing his own..to me that's a Super Hero and God has done the same for us with Jesus. He put His life on the line so not one but ALL can be saved and to me that's beyond Super Hero. Thanks bro  

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5861
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote: First of all

BADWAY wrote:

 First of all sir thank you for responding. Secondly, I never referred to the Christ or Messiah as Jesu Christos. Thirdly, in historic texts Jesus is mentioned throughout history. In Islam they not only believe that Jesus existed they also believe He had a supernatural birth. Is the image you see often of Jesus wrong? Yes, without any question. In fact, I often refer to the second commandment that forbids any iconic imagery representing anything of or relating to Heaven. That means no pictures, paintings, figurines, statues etc. Again it is not the Christians per se responsibility to prove His divine existence rather you to be able to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that He doesn't. Even Charles Darwin was said to have believed in God before he died. However I can never prove that anymore than I could prove the conspiracy to kill JFK or 911.

For a myth to exist it must entirely be fabricated or be without truth. However the Bible clearly outlines actual places, peoples, battles and various other events that have transpired. Isiah 44 clearly states " He sitteth upon the circle of the Earth" long before Columbus, Amerigo Vespucci and others who sat sail to see if the World was flat shedding light to the fact the Earth is round. It was this verse that inspired Columbus to set sail upon his fortuitous journey. I already stated there are stories in the bible not to be taken literally but meant as a learning tool to aid us in our spiritual growth and understanding. The evidence that you look for can't be explained. It is an inherent knowledge that can only be attained as if listening to a radio station and getting the proper reception by finely tuning your spiritual dial. Atheists argue that nothing can have no beginning and no end however we know that a number line has no beginning or end. God is the ultimate scientist and mathematician so something as basic as our number line proves that  indeed something can have no beginning or end.

What sustains you? Food, the will to live, water...what is it, are you merely here by chance. Think about that! In this vast expanse we happened as a fluke...so there must be other flukes of nature out there..what are the odds that we just happened from some cosmic explosion that over billions of years ended up putting us in just the right spot to cause all the right ingredients to form out of some intergalactic cesspool. Do you realize that if the Earth formed as the theory of the Big Bang suggests..it would highly be improbable if not impossible. The Earth as a hot massive rock with no atmosphere mind you supposedly was able to contain the massive steam that developed clouds that brought forth acidic rain that sprung forth life as we know it. Without getting into to much detail that appears more like a myth than intelligent design. Everything here on Earth no matter how insignificant we think it may be has a purpose. That's suggests a purposeful design as opposed to the notion we were constructed as intricate life forms out of something so choatic.

Nothing can be put into organized structure from chaos without something or someone to organize it. Does a cluttered room clean itself?

True, God may not be as we envision, but then again if He thought it to be important He would have made it the theme of His Word. The second commandment shows us it is not important to know what he looks like..after all we were made in His image. God is like a diamond. A diamond has many facets to it and each facet with it's own brilliance..we are those facets of brilliant color and together we bestow that magnificent image of God for we were created in the image of Him.   

It most definitely is the responsibility of someone claiming the existence of anything, especially something not plainly apparent as with ordinary objects like tables, real people, or the Sun.

Myths can certainly involve references to some known objects and events and persons and still be fiction, just like Spiderman who lives in 'real' cities in the USA, but is not real himself.

"Life, the Universe, and Everything" did not arise purely by chance, we don't claim that, although elements of chance were involved at every stage. 

Planets are highly probable things, we have discovered 100's of them going around the relatively small number of stars close enough for us to detect their planets. The probability of any one planet picked at random being suitable for life is very low, but since there are almost certainly at least 100's of billions in the Universe, the probability that none of them would be suitable for life is extremely low, precisely because of the random effects which determine their particular characteristics.

The Earth initially contained no water - that accumulated on it after it cooled sufficiently, from icy chunks in the surrounding cloud of dust and debris, ice that still exists in the far outer reaches of the solar system. We have observed how readily some representative stages in the formation of molecules critical for life can form spontaneously in the sort of conditions which could easily have existed on an early Earth, so we have good reason to believe it is not impossibly unlikely.

Organized structure can be observed emerging from randomness all the time, every time a highly structured crystal forms out of the randomly moving molecules of a liquid solution. The growth of an adult human being from a single cell also represents a massive increase in complexity of a structure without any need for divine guidance along the way - we have a pretty good broad undertanding of the chemical and other processes which control that.

Once some simple self-replication molecules formed, the principle of variation and differential survival allow more complex forms to develop step by step over the billions of years since that point. It only requires a flow of usable energy, readily avaiiable from the sun, to allow the growth of such complexity.

An infinitely complex sentient being would still require an explanation of how it came to be, even less explicable than simple life forms, so cannot be an explanation for how everything ultimately came to be. Far more plausible that 'everything' ultimately arose from the simplest state of matter/energy that could possibly exist, since we know there are no 'laws' which would stop such emergence from being possible.

So a God 'explanation' raises far more questions than it really answers, so it simply doesn't work in logic.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13689
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Are you willing to conduct a

Are you willing to conduct a "fall on the metro track" study to see how many people survive?

Lets get 1,000 volunteers to jump or be pushed onto the track calculating the same parameters as your given example and see how many survive.

Am I glad they survived? SURE! But there is no MAGIC to it. If they had been killed they would have been killed. Since that didn't happen THEY GOT LUCKY!

This is bullshit. This is just as absurd when people phrase a god for the survival of 1 in a plane crash where there are 200 plus on the plane. Then in another accident , for example 200 survive and only one person dies.

Shit happens, that is all there is too it. Good and bad are no more a result of an invisible magical brain than taking a shit is a result of a voodoo doll.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
God is real

 Wow brian i hope i didn't make you angry bro! First of all , why would I take my helmet off in space/ What does that have to do with anything? Do you not appreciate the wonders or admire them , obviously you admire the sound of your cats' purring but it is a wonderful moment that exists between you and your cat however your cat would purr on whoever took care of it...your cat would easily leave you if it found another source for its food and well being. Sad but true. The waste and nastiness of it all is brought about by us because as self centered materialistic pack rats we create our own filthy environment. I admire a porcupine but i don't play with it, the reason is obvious, or a fire  for that matter...getting burned is not fun...don't be upset...like I Stated earlier I'm not here to convince or convert just explain that God is real. Ask yourself Why do I refuse to Believe as opposed to Why I choose not too/ the latter is far more to easy to answer because to not not believe is a lazy attitude because you don't want to find out for your self you want us to do it for you...And God helps those who help themselves....and even some who don't...I've been homeless off and on since 1999 and yet He has sustained me. I've been out of work since December 29th of 2008 and I havent starved yet....I would say there is something divine about that. No job yet, I've been able to eat and my storage has been paid....I was just about to lose my storage 2months behind in rent and they getting ready to put it up for auction...And now out of the blue this lady is going to pay for it without me asking for it.....yes my friend Divine. Am i perfect no way but my Faith has carried me through and THAT is a good thing!!! 

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


NoDeity
Bronze Member
NoDeity's picture
Posts: 268
Joined: 2009-10-13
User is offlineOffline
Quote:Do you realize that if

Quote:
Do you realize that if the Earth formed as the theory of the Big Bang suggests..it would highly be improbable if not impossible.

Anything with a probability greater than zero eventually becomes almost inevitable.  Given the fact that the universe is unimaginably large, containing an unimaginably large number of stars, many of which have planets, and given the immense age of the universe, it shouldn't be surprising that a habitable planet would form somewhere and that life would develop on that planet. 

There's a lot we don't know about how all this happened.  When we don't know, the most honest and accurate answer is, "I don't know (yet)."  Not knowing is never a good excuse to leap to the supernatural or the divine for an explanation.

 

Quote:
Nothing can be put into organized structure from chaos without something or someone to organize it.

That's more-or-less true but "someone" (God) is not needed because "something" (natural physical law) is sufficient.  For example, consider what happens when you make ice cubes in your freezer.  A chaotic jumble of water molecules spontaneously forms itself into a highly ordered structure, not because of any intelligent intervention but because of the way the molecules connect with each other.

 

I'd be interested in knowing what you think is the one, single best reason to think that God exists, leaving out anything that boils down to "we don't know, therefore God".  The reason I ask for only one reason is that examining and explaining such things can take quite a bit of time.  When someone gives a long list of reasons, answering each and every one adequately can easily amount to writing a book and doubt that many of us have the time and inclination to tackle such a project here.  So, please give me the one best reason.

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote: First of all

BADWAY wrote:

 First of all sir thank you for responding. Secondly, I never referred to the Christ or Messiah as Jesu Christos. Thirdly, in historic texts Jesus is mentioned throughout history. In Islam they not only believe that Jesus existed they also believe He had a supernatural birth. Is the image you see often of Jesus wrong? Yes, without any question. In fact, I often refer to the second commandment that forbids any iconic imagery representing anything of or relating to Heaven. That means no pictures, paintings, figurines, statues etc. Again it is not the Christians per se responsibility to prove His divine existence rather you to be able to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that He doesn't. Even Charles Darwin was said to have believed in God before he died. However I can never prove that anymore than I could prove the conspiracy to kill JFK or 911.

For a myth to exist it must entirely be fabricated or be without truth. However the Bible clearly outlines actual places, peoples, battles and various other events that have transpired. Isiah 44 clearly states " He sitteth upon the circle of the Earth" long before Columbus, Amerigo Vespucci and others who sat sail to see if the World was flat shedding light to the fact the Earth is round. It was this verse that inspired Columbus to set sail upon his fortuitous journey. I already stated there are stories in the bible not to be taken literally but meant as a learning tool to aid us in our spiritual growth and understanding. The evidence that you look for can't be explained. It is an inherent knowledge that can only be attained as if listening to a radio station and getting the proper reception by finely tuning your spiritual dial. Atheists argue that nothing can have no beginning and no end however we know that a number line has no beginning or end. God is the ultimate scientist and mathematician so something as basic as our number line proves that  indeed something can have no beginning or end.

What sustains you? Food, the will to live, water...what is it, are you merely here by chance. Think about that! In this vast expanse we happened as a fluke...so there must be other flukes of nature out there..what are the odds that we just happened from some cosmic explosion that over billions of years ended up putting us in just the right spot to cause all the right ingredients to form out of some intergalactic cesspool. Do you realize that if the Earth formed as the theory of the Big Bang suggests..it would highly be improbable if not impossible. The Earth as a hot massive rock with no atmosphere mind you supposedly was able to contain the massive steam that developed clouds that brought forth acidic rain that sprung forth life as we know it. Without getting into to much detail that appears more like a myth than intelligent design. Everything here on Earth no matter how insignificant we think it may be has a purpose. That's suggests a purposeful design as opposed to the notion we were constructed as intricate life forms out of something so choatic.

Nothing can be put into organized structure from chaos without something or someone to organize it. Does a cluttered room clean itself?

True, God may not be as we envision, but then again if He thought it to be important He would have made it the theme of His Word. The second commandment shows us it is not important to know what he looks like..after all we were made in His image. God is like a diamond. A diamond has many facets to it and each facet with it's own brilliance..we are those facets of brilliant color and together we bestow that magnificent image of God for we were created in the image of Him.   

1. So you take Christ as a general title as Paul does? Paul's not talking about a real being either.

2. If you are lumping the Qu'ran in with historic texts, you have no concept of history.

3.  Even Answers in Genesis calls the Lady Hope story bat squeeze. Are you lying in the name of your God?

4. The Spider-Man comics are set in New York City. By your logic, there really is a superhero crawling up walls, shooting webs and stopping crime.

5. A circle is not a sphere - Neither you nor Isaiah have had geometry.

6. Natural selection is not chance (despite what Hovind, Comfort/Cameron, et al tell you)

7. The universe is not an orderly place - The anthropic principle is bull.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Renee Obsidianwords
High Level DonorModeratorRRS local affiliateSilver Member
Renee Obsidianwords's picture
Posts: 1388
Joined: 2007-03-29
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote: First of all

BADWAY wrote:

 First of all sir thank you for responding. Secondly, I never referred to the Christ or Messiah as Jesu Christos. Thirdly, in historic texts Jesus is mentioned throughout history. In Islam they not only believe that Jesus existed they also believe He had a supernatural birth. Is the image you see often of Jesus wrong? Yes, without any question. In fact, I often refer to the second commandment that forbids any iconic imagery representing anything of or relating to Heaven. That means no pictures, paintings, figurines, statues etc. Again it is not the Christians per se responsibility to prove His divine existence rather you to be able to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that He doesn't. Even Charles Darwin was said to have believed in God before he died. However I can never prove that anymore than I could prove the conspiracy to kill JFK or 911.

I am only going to respond to this first paragraph because I am supposed to be studying!  Sticking out tongue

I can't speak for Jeffrick, but I read his response to be a reference to Christ:

From the Encyclopedia of Worlds Religions-From the Greek word ‘christos’, meaning “anointed”; a title applied to Jesus, the founder of Christianity. The earliest followers of Jesus most likely spoke Aramaic, which was the language of Palestine in Jesus’ day. As a result, they would not have applied the Greek word ‘christos’, “Christ,” to Jesus. They would have used its Aramaic equivalent, which is usually rendered into English as messiah.-

OH MY GOD! Jesus was the founder of Christianity!!?

As for historic texts that mention Jesus, I would be curious as to which texts you are speaking of. If I don't believe a persons claim 100%, I tend to like a bit of proof behind said claim, so the names of the texts would be helpful.

And with the logic you used, don't tell me I have to prove the non-existence of these texts, geesh.

OH, and that brings me to my next point. If you state something to be true ~ you need to present points that help convince your audience to support your point or theory~so when you state that it is NOT a christian's responsibility to prove the existence of Jesus or God or whatever, you are mistaken as it is the Christian that claims the existence therefore they need to back that claim.

Slowly building a blog at ~

http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13689
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Quote:Wow brian i hope i

Quote:
Wow brian i hope i didn't make you angry bro! First of all , why would I take my helmet off in space/ What does that have to do with anything? Do you not appreciate the wonders or admire them , obviously you admire the sound of your cats' purring but it is a wonderful moment that exists between you and your cat however your cat would purr on whoever took care of it...your cat would easily leave you if it found another source for its food and well being.

Angry in what sense?

Angry in that I want to kill you? No? Hardly. I love chew toys.

Angry at the stupid claims you make? Absolutely.

If the bond between my cat and I were new, then yes, I would say that the ability for it to find a new source to find comfort would be phycologically easier for it. BUT older animals will have a harder time adjusting to new environments. Humans are not that different. Change is easy over longer periods. Sudden change is much harder on older animals than younger ones.

I am sure that if I gave my cat away it would for a period, look for me, but over time, if given the right attention would adjust. But the older he gets the harder that adjustment would be.

You missed my point which is simple.

The "awe" that I have for my cat purring is as natural as cancer. BOTH EXIST and are not the result of fictional beings, by any name.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
God is real

How are you today Bob nice to have you respond...wow I didn't think anyone would..this is fun bro.. 

when i talk about myths I refer to things that are not plausible. Spiderman, Batman are plausible figures because they are men and do nothing magical although comic books tend to have them performing some amazing stunts. This is merely labled fiction not myths.

The Earth had no water yet supposedly it created steam and in the vacuum of space how could the steam be contained if there was no atmosphere to contain it. No steam, no clouds, no water, no ice it's that simple. Without an atmosphere these events can't occur yet scientists or evolutionary  theorists claim it's possible like you being a direct descendant from a chimpanzee albeit a special chimpanzee because the others haven't evolved.

Random effects is putting it mildly, it takes a unique series of ingredients plus a position or better yet location, location, location.

If we were just a few degrees this way or that away we wouldn't be here so to me in my opinion that's pretty special of our existence.

Laws of intelligent design are there but we are too ignorant to understand them for the Master builder works in a different realm of physics. 

Me and you may agree 2+2 is four and base all of our mathematical principles around the obvious but even astrophysicists will concur there is a whole different set of logical principals that exist and we are nothing more than babes in the woods exploring our world but if we fail to open our eyes we will continue you to be blind no matter how adapted we are to our surroundings! take care bro

 

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13689
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote:How are you

BADWAY wrote:

How are you today Bob nice to have you respond...wow I didn't think anyone would..this is fun bro.. 

when i talk about myths I refer to things that are not plausible. Spiderman, Batman are plausible figures because they are men and do nothing magical although comic books tend to have them performing some amazing stunts. This is merely labled fiction not myths.

The Earth had no water yet supposedly it created steam and in the vacuum of space how could the steam be contained if there was no atmosphere to contain it. No steam, no clouds, no water, no ice it's that simple. Without an atmosphere these events can't occur yet scientists or evolutionary  theorists claim it's possible like you being a direct descendant from a chimpanzee albeit a special chimpanzee because the others haven't evolved.

Random effects is putting it mildly, it takes a unique series of ingredients plus a position or better yet location, location, location.

If we were just a few degrees this way or that away we wouldn't be here so to me in my opinion that's pretty special of our existence.

Laws of intelligent design are there but we are too ignorant to understand them for the Master builder works in a different realm of physics. 

Me and you may agree 2+2 is four and base all of our mathematical principles around the obvious but even astrophysicists will concur there is a whole different set of logical principals that exist and we are nothing more than babes in the woods exploring our world but if we fail to open our eyes we will continue you to be blind no matter how adapted we are to our surroundings! take care bro

 

Myth, fiction, fantasy, magic, god belief ARE ALL THE SAME CRAP!

The only difference is the importance people place on them. 

Praying to God is as useful as praying to lint or Spider Man.

The wise do not fear being wrong, but welcome being corrected.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote:How are you

BADWAY wrote:

How are you today Bob nice to have you respond...wow I didn't think anyone would..this is fun bro.. 

when i talk about myths I refer to things that are not plausible. Spiderman, Batman are plausible figures because they are men and do nothing magical although comic books tend to have them performing some amazing stunts. This is merely labled fiction not myths.

The Earth had no water yet supposedly it created steam and in the vacuum of space how could the steam be contained if there was no atmosphere to contain it. No steam, no clouds, no water, no ice it's that simple. Without an atmosphere these events can't occur yet scientists or evolutionary  theorists claim it's possible like you being a direct descendant from a chimpanzee albeit a special chimpanzee because the others haven't evolved.

Random effects is putting it mildly, it takes a unique series of ingredients plus a position or better yet location, location, location.

If we were just a few degrees this way or that away we wouldn't be here so to me in my opinion that's pretty special of our existence.

Laws of intelligent design are there but we are too ignorant to understand them for the Master builder works in a different realm of physics. 

Me and you may agree 2+2 is four and base all of our mathematical principles around the obvious but even astrophysicists will concur there is a whole different set of logical principals that exist and we are nothing more than babes in the woods exploring our world but if we fail to open our eyes we will continue you to be blind no matter how adapted we are to our surroundings! take care bro

 

1. If plausibility is your benchmark you just called your God a myth. Do you see where you did that?

2. Ever heard of comets? Big balls of ice that collided with the still forming earth and brought water with them? Most common molecule in the universe? Is it just easier to believe that God spoke it into existence?

3. And the myth that Yahweh created it all is less random? The Bible gives no indication that he placed things specifically. The anthropic principle is a post hoc fallacy (feel free to correct my terms guys).

4. Reason opens eyes - faith closes them. Why do you keep yours closed?

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


EdwardNortonFan
Posts: 34
Joined: 2009-10-14
User is offlineOffline
God is your imaginary friend.

" Let's say I'm wrong, and I die and there is no heaven or hell..nothing lost except that I led a decent life and was kind to others and so on but if you were to die never accepting God or Jesus and you found out that He was true and real but by then it was too late...in other words it is better to be safe than sorry..."

 

The argument you are using is a logical fallacy called Pascal's Wager. You won't get anywhere with me using this "logic". Why would a god (the Christian god) make himself into a human, come down to earth, suffer and die a mortal death only to rise again as god to save us from himself? It makes absolutely no sense. He could just forgive us and be done with it, right? And why in the world would a creator need to be worshipped by a bunch of apes? Ridiculous. Ludicrous.

I need not look to the bible for morals. I am a humanist. Look it up on wikipedia. The bible has more "sin" and suffering and murder than any book in history, and more people have died in the name of god than any other reason in history.

There is no god, there is no afterlife. This is all we've got, so I like to make the best of it while I'm alive. Doing good only because you want to be rewarded by some imaginary friend is absurd. And I won't even go into all the other "words of god" or books like the Quran or the Book of Mormon...

 


EdwardNortonFan
Posts: 34
Joined: 2009-10-14
User is offlineOffline
"...evolutionary  theorists

"...evolutionary  theorists claim it's possible like you being a direct descendant from a chimpanzee albeit a special chimpanzee because the others haven't evolved..."

 

Are you really denying that we are apes? Really? You have nothing but the bible, which is only ONE book written by men hundreds of years ago, as any evidence of your god. But, we have the whole scientific community behind us with evolution. Have you heard of Lucy or Ardi?


BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
God is real

 Hi, Hi gadfly, thanks for your input..hope you are doing well!

1. I'm referring to the obvious person we call the Messiah..Jesus! For a fictional character name one other fictional character in human history that has had so much written, debated, fought over, died for, killed for, had music and movies written for than Him. Me do think there must be something to such an alleged ambiguous figure in our history!

2. Islam came after Christianity. I was trying to point out that Muhammed when developing the Koran or Qu'ran as you put it as he recieved it from the Arch Angel Gabriel that it mentions Jesus and His birth as well as acknowledge it as being supernatural. Muslims believe He existed they just don't believe he is the last great prophet. They reserve that for Muhammed!

3. What?

4. I was showing the difference between myth and fiction...although highly unrealistic it is not impossible for a man to invent a suit that allows him to scale walls or a device that can shoot a web....does silly string sound familiar to you..and there are vigilantes who do just that and stop  crime...

5. I said Isiah44 says "He sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the Earth"I didn't say sphere and if there is a translation that suggest that you should at least show your reference point of that..but in the end it's moot because the point I was making was that that scripture caused pause to wonder whether or not the world was flat..and if memory serves me well there are other references that the world was round so it is what it is!

6. And you mentioned Natural selection because.....If you beleive that we evolved from primates that's fine..but just because it can walk like a duck and act like a duck doesn't necessarily make it a duck....evolution is possible no question but not a rose evolving into a daffodil or a lynx into a lion that my friend just doesn't and hasn't happened naturally anyway...

7. Order by whose definition, on the contrary there is order in the universe just not as linear as you'd expect. The birth of a star, galaxy, stars in alignment at a certain time of the year, orions belt, big dipper, etc. all have a design to it if not uniformed but a design nonetheless.

thanks bro take care

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


Jeffrick
High Level DonorRational VIP!SuperfanGold Member
Jeffrick's picture
Posts: 2399
Joined: 2008-03-25
User is onlineOnline
Badway.

 

 

 

             I'm assuming your post #7 was directed at me, please correct me if I am wrong.

 

       I  used the term Jesu christos because in the original version of the NT that's how the TITLE would be written. I was trying to emphasize the TITLE  not a name.  For this fictional charactor you call Jesus christ, Messiah, savior, son of god etc. I have been known to use  Jesu, Jesus, Joshua Bar Joseph, Yushua Bar Yusef and even Jesus H.Christ, any and all of these terms (yours and mine) have been used meny times throughout history.   Please don't get bent out of shape because I used a term you are not familier with!!  Try reading about your hero somewhere else above and beyond the bible, in at least one part of the Koran the title is rendered as Yssa Bn Yssif (sic).

  

       Joshua and Joseph were extremly common names, so common in fact that our modern English rendering would be John Doe  or even John Smith.  Which to us means unknown, unnamed, i.e.  unreal. Read the writtings of Saul of Tarsus (St.Paul) he so often refers to "The Christ" (no first name), the chosen, the annointed etc.  Paul came accross a sect of Jews who believed the "Annointed Savior" Had already arrived.  That sect dated back to early in the first century BCE (i.e. the birth of G.J.Caeser--100BCE).   Paul was a Greek speaking  Roman citizen with a Jewish religion and Hebrew ancesters.   One day, not expecting anything special Saul fell down in an epillectic siezier (or Bi-polar episode) and woke up as PAUL and decided the christians were right.

 

        Paul didn't believe there was a real Joshua the annointed, he made that clear enough in his writtings, (re-read your bible).  Paul simply converted into an already existing cult of Jews.  Now try  to imagine how different our world would be today if Paul had been a nice boy and  taken his medication.

 

         Columbus (Cristobel Colon) did not consult the bible before heading west. He had 20 years experience sailing up and down the African coast & Iberia,  he knew about the Easterly trade winds south of the Canary Islands and the Westerly trade winds north of the Canary Islands  and he believed -- based on his navigational science that the world was a sphere (not a circle!!!)   Amerigo Vespucci came along in the NEXT generation and happen to have his name attached to a map at the right time in the right place.  Otherwise we would now be living in  the new world of Norte Cristoba & Sud Cristoba.

 

        Further to that;  Proof & evidence of  any god is on you to supply.  Myself and other atheists DO NOT have to prove ZERO.  If you believe there rely is something out there;  YOU get to prove it.

       

        Darwin DID NOT convert on his death bed, rumors abound about that nonesense,  all have been disreputed.

 

        There is not a whole lot of mother natures' chaos that has been controlled,  scientists have been able to explain so much of the natural world that it may seem like humans are in control but we are not.  Mother nature can be a real Muthah-fuchah sometimes.

 

         Better yet let me quote Astrophysasyst Dr.Neil deGrasse Tyson (he has black skin btw) "Humans are a fluke of nature, we shouldn't be here,  99 point 999% of the universe will kill you. I could drop you buck naked on 2/3 of this planet and you will be dead in ten minutes. How can any human being claim this world was made for us?"

 

 

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


EdwardNortonFan
Posts: 34
Joined: 2009-10-14
User is offlineOffline
 "Better yet let me quote

 "Better yet let me quote Astrophysasyst Dr.Neil deGrasse Tyson (he has black skin btw) 'Humans are a fluke of nature, we shouldn't be here,  99 point 999% of the universe will kill you. I could drop you buck naked on 2/3 of this planet and you will be dead in ten minutes. How can any human being claim this world was made for us?'"

I love to watch Dr. Tyson on t.v.! He's awesome.

 

 


Jeffrick
High Level DonorRational VIP!SuperfanGold Member
Jeffrick's picture
Posts: 2399
Joined: 2008-03-25
User is onlineOnline
thanks Lisa

EdwardNortonFan wrote:

 "Better yet let me quote Astrophysasyst Dr.Neil deGrasse Tyson (he has black skin btw) 'Humans are a fluke of nature, we shouldn't be here,  99 point 999% of the universe will kill you. I could drop you buck naked on 2/3 of this planet and you will be dead in ten minutes. How can any human being claim this world was made for us?'"

I love to watch Dr. Tyson on t.v.! He's awesome.

 

 

 

 

             You and everyone else here (listening badway?) can get his BIG HITs  on youtube. Just type in his name on google.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5861
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote:How are you

BADWAY wrote:

How are you today Bob nice to have you respond...wow I didn't think anyone would..this is fun bro.. 

when i talk about myths I refer to things that are not plausible. Spiderman, Batman are plausible figures because they are men and do nothing magical although comic books tend to have them performing some amazing stunts. This is merely labled fiction not myths.

The Earth had no water yet supposedly it created steam and in the vacuum of space how could the steam be contained if there was no atmosphere to contain it. No steam, no clouds, no water, no ice it's that simple. Without an atmosphere these events can't occur yet scientists or evolutionary  theorists claim it's possible like you being a direct descendant from a chimpanzee albeit a special chimpanzee because the others haven't evolved.

Apparently you didn't read my post. The water came from icy chunks that eventually formed in the cooler parts of space. Only needs be cool enough for ice to form, even in a vacuum. We know that there are a lot of chunks of ice in the outer parts of the solar system. They have been observed. This is fact, (unlike God). From time to time, one of them falls in as a comet, and we have can verify they are largely ice.

You don't need an atmosphere to hold the water or anything else on the earth, its held by the same thing that holds the atmosphere, namely gravity.

Quote:

Random effects is putting it mildly, it takes a unique series of ingredients plus a position or better yet location, location, location.

If we were just a few degrees this way or that away we wouldn't be here so to me in my opinion that's pretty special of our existence.

Laws of intelligent design are there but we are too ignorant to understand them for the Master builder works in a different realm of physics. 

There is no such thing as the 'Laws of Intelligent Design'.

There is a vast range of conditions of temperature and everything else in different parts of this enormous Universe. It would be virtually impossible for there to be nowhere that wasn't suitable for some form of intelligent life, and that is where we evolved, and that is what we see as 'here'.

Quote:

Me and you may agree 2+2 is four and base all of our mathematical principles around the obvious but even astrophysicists will concur there is a whole different set of logical principals that exist and we are nothing more than babes in the woods exploring our world but if we fail to open our eyes we will continue you to be blind no matter how adapted we are to our surroundings! take care bro

There is no "whole different set of logical principals that exist". Who built the Master Builder??? Emergence of complexity from simplicity is an observed fact, intelligent super beings creating universes is not.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3718
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
Hello BADWAY, welcome to the

Hello BADWAY, welcome to the forum.

BADWAY wrote:
but not a rose evolving into a daffodil or a lynx into a lion

Organisms can certainly gradually evolve into something significantly different given enough time, a varying amount of time depending on the circumstances. The entire genome is subject to mutation, so it's not like changes in characteristics would halt at an invisible wall.

However, the theory of evolution does not claim, specifically, that the rose that exists today evolves into a daffodil or a lynx into a lion. Yep, you are holding one of the most prevalent misconceptions of evolution. The species that you have named are, on an evolutionary scale, cousins. They branched off from a common ancestor.

BADWAY wrote:
all have a design to it if not uniformed but a design nonetheless.

What does a "design to it" mean if not that it was "designed?" Do you mean it's complex? Then, use the right word, and just say it's complex. What, do you have a "gut feeling" that it's designed? Does the universe "seem" "nice" and "tidy?" 

Don't be annoying and continue committing vague, non sequitur semantic fallacies after they've already been pointed out to you.  

Be precise. Say what you really mean.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 3663
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
  Hello BADWAY.  Welcome

  Hello BADWAY.  Welcome to the forum.


BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
God is real

 Hello again Norton fan,

thanks again for responding!

God use to walk here with Adam in the cool of the day and through out the old testament God was often rejected even when He performed miraculous awesome powers but still man would deny or reject Him. Imagine your a newly freed slave from Egypt who is on an Exodus from the pharoah. You've been led to a place where it appears your back is against the wall and your trapped between a huge body of water and the pharoahs men quickly coming upon you to go and you know that there is no hope either way your going to die....but God who delivered you out of Egypt that you prayed too your losing faith quick...after all how could He do this to you....(HE WOULDN'T BRING YOU THIS FAR TO DROP YOU OFF HERE) so he does something that no one else could do and part this body of water to allow you passage across and once upon the other side as pharoahs men are crossing , God let's the waters go and drowns the Pharoahs men then after seeing that and waiting for the land of paradise you question Him again and so you turn  to building a false god of gold but it does nothing. I say this because through out biblical history where God once was known to man and had a kinship with him that after the constant turning away He realized that many have seen and have rebuked Him so God being the loving Father He is said basically look guys I'm going to make it easy for you. If you can believe that a man can be born both of the spirit and flesh and that he can abide by the laws and show the hypocrites the errors of their ways and perform miracles before your very eyes like turning water into wine and causing the dead to rise and the blind to see not only that but beleive He came to die for your sins and rise from the tomb....if you can believe that then salvation can be yours...Like I stated earlier i'm not here to make you angry...I have not condemned you are ridiculed you or blasted you I'm merely speaking of my faith that can't be wavered by rhetoric. I know it would be easy to quote scripture verbatim but i'm not here to judge you...I don't and won't. I have issues of my own that burden me....my own sins...but my faith has carried me through my darkest times..and even now..thank you for your time

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
God is real

 Hi Bob, first of all I wish I knew why everyone is so angry towards me..I haven't cursed or blashemed or even judged anyone for their beliefs i am just merely expressing my belief in a Higher power. I did read your post.

1. Where did the icy chunks come from? Obviously they were bits of some cosmic collision that parts contained water. But these blocks of ice are already frozen. The Earth was molten hot at one point according to science. And it would take more than gravity to keep steam from leaving the ..oh that's right there was no atmosphere...so in the vacuum of space it would not have had time form a layer thick enough to contain any escaping gases....but even if it could being that the Earth was a rock in space cold space it would have cooled very rapidly since it is a planet and not a star that can self contain it's massive heat energy. The Earth would have needed an atmosphere to contain it's gases and then  your theory can have validation but the Earth had none according to the BBT unless they changed it.

By the way Norton fan it's spelled Astrophysicist....

i'm going to sleep now but it has been fun...Thank you guys and I wish you all the best

I know you'll hate this but I mean this with all sincerity...May God bless and keep you...peace!

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote: Hi Bob, first

BADWAY wrote:

 Hi Bob, first of all I wish I knew why everyone is so angry towards me..I haven't cursed or blashemed or even judged anyone for their beliefs i am just merely expressing my belief in a Higher power. I did read your post.

1. Where did the icy chunks come from? Obviously they were bits of some cosmic collision that parts contained water. But these blocks of ice are already frozen. The Earth was molten hot at one point according to science. And it would take more than gravity to keep steam from leaving the ..oh that's right there was no atmosphere...so in the vacuum of space it would not have had time form a layer thick enough to contain any escaping gases....but even if it could being that the Earth was a rock in space cold space it would have cooled very rapidly since it is a planet and not a star that can self contain it's massive heat energy. The Earth would have needed an atmosphere to contain it's gases and then  your theory can have validation but the Earth had none according to the BBT unless they changed it.

By the way Norton fan it's spelled Astrophysicist....

i'm going to sleep now but it has been fun...Thank you guys and I wish you all the best

I know you'll hate this but I mean this with all sincerity...May God bless and keep you...peace!

This isn't anger or hatred - not even close. I consider this fun.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


KSMB
Scientist
KSMB's picture
Posts: 702
Joined: 2006-08-03
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote:Hi Bob, first

BADWAY wrote:
Hi Bob, first of all I wish I knew why everyone is so angry towards me..I haven't cursed or blashemed or even judged anyone for their beliefs i am just merely expressing my belief in a Higher power. I did read your post.

No one is angry at you. We just think you believe in nonsense and are not afraid to tell you that. That is not the same thing as anger.

BADWAY wrote:
1. Where did the icy chunks come from? Obviously they were bits of some cosmic collision that parts contained water. But these blocks of ice are already frozen.

I hope Bob forgives me for repeating what he already said, but icy chunks are very numerous in the outer parts of the solar system. Like he said, all you need is enough material (from the circumstellar protoplanetary disk) and low enough temperature, and you get chunks of ice. Oh, and in case it wasn't obvious, the outer parts of the solar system are really cold.

BADWAY wrote:
The Earth was molten hot at one point according to science. And it would take more than gravity to keep steam from leaving the ..oh that's right there was no atmosphere...so in the vacuum of space it would not have had time form a layer thick enough to contain any escaping gases....

Don't be silly, Earth and its planetary twin Venus are clearly large enough to retain an atmosphere. Why do you think they even have atmospheres today? Magic? The original atmosphere could easily been caused by volcanic activity, which would have been quite substantial at the molten stage.

BADWAY wrote:
but even if it could being that the Earth was a rock in space cold space it would have cooled very rapidly since it is a planet and not a star that can self contain it's massive heat energy.

Sure, if by "very rapidly" you mean a timescale of many billions of years. The Earth is still cooling, and will continue to do so. The surface is now cool enough to be a crust, but the crust is still floating on the molten layers under it. That's why we have earthquakes and volcanoes. The last part of your statement here makes absolutely no sense. Why shouldn't planets contain heat energy?

BADWAY wrote:
The Earth would have needed an atmosphere to contain it's gases and then  your theory can have validation but the Earth had none according to the BBT unless they changed it.

Calling redundancy department. An atmosphere by definition contains gases, and I already addressed the case of the Earth up there. Also, you are conflating the Big Bang theory with formation of the solar system. Remarkable conflation when you think about it, since those two are separated in time by 8 billion years or so. But that's ok, you're not the first christian to make such a rookie mistake. That's why we're here, to dispel such misconceptions. I suggest an actual book on astronomy. Your local library will have many of those, and I guarantee you will be as fascinated with the subject as I am!


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13689
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote: Hi Bob, first

BADWAY wrote:

 Hi Bob, first of all I wish I knew why everyone is so angry towards me..I haven't cursed or blashemed or even judged anyone for their beliefs i am just merely expressing my belief in a Higher power. I did read your post.

Stop the "poor me" motif. As I tried to explain to you which you don't seem to get, DON'T TAKE THIS PERSONALLY,

Yes we are angry, just like Galileo must have been when the church said, "The earth is flat and that's the end of it".

We get claims like yours all the time. We get claims from other people of other religions. We've even had a "new ager" named Captain Pineapple who used to believe that the universe was a giant consciousness. She has since given up on that claim.

Remember that you came here. Also remember that we are not attacking YOU personally. You might be the nicest person in the world, non of us have personally met you. WE ARE NOT JUDGING YOU. We are judging the claims you make.

And also treat us as individuals. You will find some will take a more library approach and others don't mind the verbal boxing ring. But in any case whomever you are dealing with here ARE individuals. And non of us are judging you the person. WE are judging the claims you make here, nothing more.

So please stick to responding to our counter arguments and provide evidence for the claims you make. Do not take our blasphemy personally because it is NOT about you. Your claims are not special to us any more than the claims of a Muslim or Hindu.

Please learn to separate the two issues, otherwise you are going to be miserable here.

1. You, the person are a separate issue than

2. The claims you make(ON ANY SUBJECT, not just god claims)

M-Kay?

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5861
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote: Hi Bob, first

BADWAY wrote:

 Hi Bob, first of all I wish I knew why everyone is so angry towards me..I haven't cursed or blashemed or even judged anyone for their beliefs i am just merely expressing my belief in a Higher power. I did read your post.

We get impatient with anyone who seems unable to understand or accept clear arguments which show how wrong your assumptions and statements are, and just repeats the same nonsense over and over.

Quote:

1. Where did the icy chunks come from? Obviously they were bits of some cosmic collision that parts contained water. But these blocks of ice are already frozen.

They condensed out from the cloud of gas that the Solar System formed from, in those parts that were cold enough. I think I already said this.

Quote:

The Earth was molten hot at one point according to science. And it would take more than gravity to keep steam from leaving the ..oh that's right there was no atmosphere...so in the vacuum of space it would not have had time form a layer thick enough to contain any escaping gases....but even if it could being that the Earth was a rock in space cold space it would have cooled very rapidly since it is a planet and not a star that can self contain it's massive heat energy. The Earth would have needed an atmosphere to contain it's gases and then  your theory can have validation but the Earth had none according to the BBT unless they changed it.

By the way Norton fan it's spelled Astrophysicist....

i'm going to sleep now but it has been fun...Thank you guys and I wish you all the best

I know you'll hate this but I mean this with all sincerity...May God bless and keep you...peace!

 

To repeat, 'steam' is still just a gas, like all the others in an atmosphere, so if there is enough gravity to gather and retain an atmosphere, water vapour will be retained just like all the other gases in that atmosphere.

Again - the atmosphere is retained by gravity. It will slow the rate at which gases forming at the surface escape to space, but the atmosphere itself , which includes all the gases in it (water vapour is just one component of the earth's atmosphere. just another gas) is retained by gravity. 

How else can I put it - the atmosphere is simply the accumulation of all the gases which would otherwise just dissipate into space without the gravity of the planet. Without some input from icy comets and meteors hitting the planet, and/or gases coming from the evaporation of water and other substances already on the surface, and emissions from volcanoes, the atmosphere would eventually all disappear.

The rate at which any body, whether star, planet, moon or asteroid, loses heat depends purely on its surface temperature, and the thickness and composition of any atmosphere it has, and its size.

The rate at which a body changes its temperature depends on the rate of heat loss compared to the rate at which it generates heat internally, if at all.

Stars generate a lot of heat internally, planets and smaller bodies generate little or none.

The Earth gained its atmosphere from a combination of gases formed from reactions inside it, and volatile substances such as water (ice) falling onto it from space.

You really need to study much more science before you attempt to comment on these things.

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


EdwardNortonFan
Posts: 34
Joined: 2009-10-14
User is offlineOffline
Free your mind.

"God use to walk here with Adam in the cool of the day..."

 

No, he didn't. Your god only exists in your mind. Free your mind. Let go of the dogma.


nigelTheBold
atheist
nigelTheBold's picture
Posts: 1868
Joined: 2008-01-25
User is offlineOffline
God?

What is this "god" of which you speak? Do you have a description and/or definition?

I am curious to learn more of this god.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
God is real

 Okay, I get it ......nooooooooooooooooooopppppeeee I don't..lol

I love you guys really....

First let me reiterate that when I first started this forum I clearly stated I am no expert on Astronomy or God himself however God is Real to me for several reasons.

But let me ask you this...

Can we agree that both sides may be wrong or at least not know enough to say that without a doubt either of us knows the complete truth?

I can concede that like the scripture states there are things of this world we don't understand and probably may never quite fully.

Do you believe anything is possible? Bigfoot, ufo's, loch ness monster are not these entities likely to exist?

Do you believe in esp or ghosts?

Can you explain death experiences where people died and saw a great bright light and could see angels or loved ones then were revived to tell there tale?

Was it a hallucination of sorts? Have you died and come back to life to say you saw the same thing and you could (rationalize what you saw)?

Do you believe in life on other planets either lower, equal or higher than ourselves?

Could the be possibly a whole set of mathematics that we haven't discovered yet that could propel us into other dimensions?

No one will argue science, I won't, but, I believe Science just reinforces the possibility of a creator?

You get angry because all your life you were told you would burn in Hell if you sinned. And no one likes to be threatened with punishment for exploring your human nature.

But God has always been about free will, and doesn't judge you for being human, His judgement if you will is against those who won't believe for whatever reason. I haven't heard or read one Atheist or agnostic who said that the Bibles precepts of how to live and love one another or the wisdom of proverbs as being wrong or illogical. To try and do that would reinforce the negative connotation that your just wanting to rebel against God and have no reason other than to practice self fullfilment with prejudice!

Nobody has really asked me why I believe in God? Aren't you the slight bit curious?

I was not raised up in the church nor did we pray at the table before we ate our supper. In fact my mother didn't teach me about God, NO ONE DID! I inherently knew..and as I grew older there were things that transpired in my life that when I reflected on it and analyzed it it could only be Divine intervention that was present. I won't tell my story unless you ask. But God is real and I wish it was as easy as boiling water but it isn't. Nothing worth having ever is. Yes there hypocritical Christians, I know because i am one. I'm worse off than you guys but i still believe because He sustains me and i don't know why for i am not worthy. None of us are, however God loves us that much that He is willing to forgive us and deliver us from our iniquity.

If we went back far in time....where we regressed to the beginning of civilization, man, apes, amphibians, fish, amoebas, Earth, stars one by one dissapearing until there was nothing. Absolutely nothing before the first star, planet or even atom ever existed my question would be ....How did the first molecule begin? Nothing just happens with out something to set it in play. What's the law...pardon my bastardization of this principle but..... when an object at rests stays at rest unless something moves it, and an object in motion stays in motion til something stops it...albeit, friction, gravity, whatever. Something had to occur for the first molecules to begat the universe as we know it..er think we know it...If you could answer that question you would be the world's richest man or at least smartest. Scripture explains this but keep in mind the men who were writing these books didn't have the words to accurately depict things they witnessed or heard. So it is understandable for one to say the Book of Genesis is vague well duh ! We didn't have Steven Hawking there to witness the event as it unfolded or Carl Sagan but even these men have contended intelligent design as well as many present day scientists. They won't go on record as denying a creator though they may deny the religion involving that being.

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
God is real

 We were made in the image of God...Elohim a Hebrew term that can be referred either as a noun in singular form or plural...

therefore God resembles us for we were made in His image. The scripture says Let US make man in OUR image which shows why we are so different for there is more to God than a man with a beard. I believe and maybe wrong however I believe the 24 elders mentioned in Revelation also make up the body of God along with the Holy Spirit and the Messiah (Emmanuel..meaning God is with us) and they represent all of our different nationalities. God is not what you see but what leads you when you are blind! He is the calm during your storm!

He is the good you extend to others even if it becomes a sacrifice to you. He is your will to continue to live! He is your desire to endure and press on! He is your comforter, peace, your teacher and your guide! He is the order of things and rises up out of chaos! He is the extension of goodwill where once there was none then there were plenty. I.E. 911 The people who came together all over North, South and abroad putting aside their differences, prejudices, hate and hostilities to help with the rescue and aid. You may look at this and Hurricane Katrina and say Why would a God allow this to happen? the key word is ALLOW, He is not a slave master again it's free will and the scripture says look not into the whirlwind I'm not there or something to that affect. But look at the greater good that transpired from these events. People offering there homes as shelter. People all over coming to help pull people out of the water and offer food and nourishment as well as aid.

On the surface things may seem tragic but the greater good that comes from such tragedy is what God is all about. Mans HUMANITY to MAN in a world of inhumanity.

 

 

 

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


Gauche
atheist
Gauche's picture
Posts: 1565
Joined: 2007-01-18
User is offlineOffline
Is it your general approach

Is it your general approach to the seemingly insoluble questions you face or problems which appear to be admitting of no solution to seek an explanation in mythology?

Is it only christianity that holds the solutions to all unanswered questions and intractable conundrums or is it all myths? What happens when there are accounts in ancient stories that conflict with each other or with contemporary scientific explanations?

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


Thomathy
SuperfanBronze Member
Thomathy's picture
Posts: 1861
Joined: 2007-08-20
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote:Can we agree

BADWAY wrote:

Can we agree that both sides may be wrong or at least not know enough to say that without a doubt either of us knows the complete truth?

No.  I don't even know what that means.  You invent something that you believe in that explains things you otherwise wouldn't be able to.  That's not the same as looking at this figment of your imagination, seeing it as just that, and showing your belief the door.

Quote:
I can concede that like the scripture states there are things of this world we don't understand and probably may never quite fully.
...

Quote:
Do you believe anything is possible? Bigfoot, ufo's, loch ness monster are not these entities likely to exist?

Do you believe in esp or ghosts?

Can you explain death experiences where people died and saw a great bright light and could see angels or loved ones then were revived to tell there tale?

Was it a hallucination of sorts? Have you died and come back to life to say you saw the same thing and you could (rationalize what you saw)?

Is anything possible?  Sure.  Does that mean that anything is worth believing only for that?  It's possible that we're entirely wrong about gravity.  As there is never 100% certainty regarding anything (with certain caveats), that leaves, sometimes an infinitesimal, possibility that we're wrong.  You have invoked an argument from ignorance and a god of the gaps argument.  They're not valid.

Quote:
Do you believe in life on other planets either lower, equal or higher than ourselves?
No.  It's possible, of course.  There's actually good reason to think that other planets have life.  I don't know what you mean by 'lower, equal or higher,' though.

Quote:
Could the be possibly a whole set of mathematics that we haven't discovered yet that could propel us into other dimensions?
I'm not sure that question even makes sense.

Quote:
No one will argue science, I won't, but, I believe Science just reinforces the possibility of a creator?
You're asking yourself a rhetorical question?  Never mind.  I don't see how you could come to that conclusion.

Quote:
You get angry because all your life you were told you would burn in Hell if you sinned. And no one likes to be threatened with punishment for exploring your human nature.
I'm not angry.

Quote:
But God has always been about free will, and doesn't judge you for being human, His judgement if you will is against those who won't believe for whatever reason. I haven't heard or read one Atheist or agnostic who said that the Bibles precepts of how to live and love one another or the wisdom of proverbs as being wrong or illogical. To try and do that would reinforce the negative connotation that your just wanting to rebel against God and have no reason other than to practice self fullfilment with prejudice!
So, you're a Christian and you don't make any sense.  Just to clear up the mess of that paragraph you wrote, the gist is:

BADWAY Making Sense wrote:
God is about free will, doesn't judge us for being human unless you don't believe in god.  Atheist and agnostics don't argue that the precepts of how to live in the bible are either wrong or illogical because that would reinforce the negative connotation of atheists and agnostics that they're only rebelling against god and have no reason to other than for self fulfilment with prejudice

I got that, right?  Okay.  You're imagination sucks.  Further, I happen to both find certain precepts of how to live in the bible wrong and illogical.  For instance, stoning kids who disobey their parents.  I find that precept of how to live wrong.  Does that reinforce some negative connotation (you must have meant negative from the atheist or agnostic perspective) that I am only rebelling against god for no reason other than for self fulfilment with prejudice?  And what does that mean, 'self fulfilment with prejudice'?  That doesn't make sense to me.

Quote:
Nobody has really asked me why I believe in God? Aren't you the slight bit curious?
Not really.  Humour me, please.  Why do you believe in god?

Quote:
I was not raised up in the church nor did we pray at the table before we ate our supper. In fact my mother didn't teach me about God, NO ONE DID! I inherently knew..and as I grew older there were things that transpired in my life that when I reflected on it and analyzed it it could only be Divine intervention that was present. I won't tell my story unless you ask. But God is real and I wish it was as easy as boiling water but it isn't. Nothing worth having ever is. Yes there hypocritical Christians, I know because i am one. I'm worse off than you guys but i still believe because He sustains me and i don't know why for i am not worthy. None of us are, however God loves us that much that He is willing to forgive us and deliver us from our iniquity.
I'm sorry I asked.  Oh, that wasn't the whole story?

Quote:
If we went back far in time....where we regressed to the beginning of civilization, man, apes, amphibians, fish, amoebas, Earth, stars one by one dissapearing until there was nothing. Absolutely nothing before the first star, planet or even atom ever existed my question would be ....How did the first molecule begin? Nothing just happens with out something to set it in play. What's the law...pardon my bastardization of this principle but..... when an object at rests stays at rest unless something moves it, and an object in motion stays in motion til something stops it...albeit, friction, gravity, whatever. Something had to occur for the first molecules to begat the universe as we know it..er think we know it...If you could answer that question you would be the world's richest man or at least smartest. Scripture explains this but keep in mind the men who were writing these books didn't have the words to accurately depict things they witnessed or heard. So it is understandable for one to say the Book of Genesis is vague well duh ! We didn't have Steven Hawking there to witness the event as it unfolded or Carl Sagan but even these men have contended intelligent design as well as many present day scientists. They won't go on record as denying a creator though they may deny the religion involving that being.
Wow!  Okay, the universe ...never mind.  Big Bang.  The Big Bang was the inception of the universe.  The universe didn't exist before the Big Bang.  That doesn't mean nothing did.  It means that this universe, space-time and all the is within it, didn't exist as it does. 

You don't know any better than anyone else what was there before the universe.  In fact, you know much less than some people who have actually studied cosmology.  I don't believe that your bible qualifies you to talk about cosmology with any sort of authority.  God-did-it is not a reasonable conclusion to draw from ignorance.  That's you invalid god of the gaps argument again.  You should stop that.

Now, Genesis is a wholly incorrect detail of the beginning of this universe.  It is as incorrect as any other ancient creation myth, from the Sioux to the Greek.  It's not just that Genesis is vague and your argument that they didn't have the words to explain it is ridiculous.  They could have invented the words, just like we've had to invent words to describe everything we care to talk about.  If the writers of Genesis were rigorously describing the inception of the universe, they could have done a much better job.  The Mayan had a near perfect calendar and the Egyptians had very good mathematics that are correct even today.  They didn't record these things poorly or inaccurately because there were no modern cosmologists or theoretical mathematicians to give their concepts or new discoveries names, they came up with words and symbols to describe what they had discovered.

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


EdwardNortonFan
Posts: 34
Joined: 2009-10-14
User is offlineOffline
"We were made in the image

"We were made in the image of God..."

 

So, god is an ape?


nigelTheBold
atheist
nigelTheBold's picture
Posts: 1868
Joined: 2008-01-25
User is offlineOffline
EdwardNortonFan wrote:So,

EdwardNortonFan wrote:


So, god is an ape?

Well, yes and no. Apes are the image of god. Really, he looks like an ape, but isn't; inside, he is made of tofu, spinach, and tika masala sauce. Not only is god real, and we are made in his image, but he is quite delicious.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
g

 Wow Thomathy you almost did it ...you almost made me go W.T.....but ha ha I won't.

So you can't admit you might be wrong so you must be perfect. The authority of all authorities. You're a genius. I'm blown away. I should worship you. You have all the answers because you can't be wrong. Can you?

I didn't invent anything so there goes that statement. 

 

My imagination..hmmmm...so I made up God, I wrote the Bible, I created the Solomons temple, the Dead Sea Scrolls, Torah,...the Great flood,

yep you got me it was me I did all this.....boy you are reaching!

Now you contradict yourself...You said you couldn't be wrong or admit to possibly being wrong then you turn right around and said Sure, anything is possible...even you being wrong...hmmm which is it?  Can you or can't you, at least i'm man enough to admit my shortcomings in the area of God, astrophysics, evolution among other things..even humble. I'm not so arrogant to say otherwise.

I asked is it possible for life on other planets,then you say "No. It's possible of course" which is it bro your more confusing than an hermorpadite on the dating game for ambiguous heterosexuals!!!

So your saying it doesn't make sense  that there maybe a whole of different mathematical principles that could put us in a whole other dimensional realm like 4th or 5th dimensions or parallel universes. Why, because of your inability to accept anything is possible...oh yeah that's right you said Sure it's possible....whatever bro....good thing your not on the show You're smarter than a 5th grader...zowie..zing!

Oh and sorry i meant to say is, to be able to practice self fullfilment without prejudice. Meaning, you would rather go on living your life the way you see fit without reservation or reprimand, fear of answering to a higher authority than yourself so it it would be far easier to just deny God and His existence because that's a mental battle you don't want to be burdened with...in other words feeling guilty for doing something deemed morally unacceptable. My Bad. I should have worded it better but I was pressed for time. Sorry

So what was there before the BBT, Thomathy? You suggested there may have been something there prior to the Big Bang....do you have a clue? I asked Thomathy what, when there was nothing , that created the first molecule? I didn't mention universes I said if you went back far enough in time before the BBT there had to be something that created the molecule that replicated and formed a nucleus that formed an atom that........................................................................................Can you answer that? I'm not here to debate science but show that God's creations are in fact quite scientific. Dispel that without rhetoric!

Yes , okay they could have invented words like gjhdkflsuy to describe an event but it wouldn't have made sense to create mumbo jumbo that know one could relate too....it would have just made it that more confusing...Why speak over someones head if your trying to teach people something unless you want to confuse them and the Devil is the author of confusion...where God is the Author of Wisdom and Truth albeit complex and hard to grasp.!  Even the pictographs, or heiroglyhics were consistent with there understanding as it relates to their culture. A drawing, or pictograph is a lot easier to explain because it is a visual concept as opposed to comprehending a literal one.

For example if I told you i saw a ufo and described or even wrote about it it wouldn't have as much impact unless I drew you a picture to show you what I saw. Sure you could use your imagination. But I don't want you to create something that wasn't there in your own perception..in other words lean unto your own understanding, so I must convey the image on paprys, paper, stone whatever to explain visually what words alone could not articulate!

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


BADWAY
Theist
BADWAY's picture
Posts: 142
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
God is real

Norton Fan

 Wow....I am impressed, you spelled God with a capital G in quotations then to be cute and describe Him with a lower case g....yes you all are confused...no question...but I love you anyways....

I get that you look in the mirror and you can see similarities between you and an ape....I'm sorry your going to hate me for this but if this is your picture i would have to say you are an attractive woman and i see nothing in your eyes, your smile or hair that would cause me to suspect your ancestors swung from trees. When you walk past a tree do you pause and get the inclination to hang upside down by your tail and grunt while scratching your armpit......sorry I never had that inclination...I don't even really like bananas...i bet you adore them!! haha

But enough with the bantering and sarcasm really. Your attempts at wit underwhelm me! I hope your not a stand up comedian. I hope that your smile is not after hearing yourself talk....But it doesn't change the fact that I think your a beautiful woman and it is the ugliness of atheism that taints your radiant glow....If your married I hope you and yours the best if not I hope you find someone who loves not for who you are but in spite of.!

"They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...I must be going to Heaven because I don't have any good intentions.".BADWAY


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote: Wow Thomathy

BADWAY wrote:

 Wow Thomathy you almost did it ...you almost made me go W.T.....but ha ha I won't.

So you can't admit you might be wrong so you must be perfect. The authority of all authorities. You're a genius. I'm blown away. I should worship you. You have all the answers because you can't be wrong. Can you?

I didn't invent anything so there goes that statement.

Thomathy, may I borrow the chew toy? Thanks.

Where was there ever a mention of Thomathy's infallibility? He said that some of things you listed were possible because anything is possible. Even God may be possible. The God of the Bible who you worship is definitely not because he's a human created self-contradictory being.

 

Quote:

My imagination..hmmmm...so I made up God, I wrote the Bible, I created the Solomons temple, the Dead Sea Scrolls, Torah,...the Great flood,

yep you got me it was me I did all this.....boy you are reaching!

Nah, I can't give you that much credit. You don't have enough imagination to think of that stuff. That's why you borrowed their myths. Come to think of it, that's why they borrowed the myths of other cultures to build theirs.

Quote:

Now you contradict yourself...You said you couldn't be wrong or admit to possibly being wrong then you turn right around and said Sure, anything is possible...even you being wrong...hmmm which is it?  Can you or can't you, at least i'm man enough to admit my shortcomings in the area of God, astrophysics, evolution among other things..even humble. I'm not so arrogant to say otherwise.

I asked is it possible for life on other planets,then you say "No. It's possible of course" which is it bro your more confusing than an hermorpadite on the dating game for ambiguous heterosexuals!!!

No, you asked if he believed it was possible for life to exist on other planets. He said he didn't believe in it but it is possible. Please think before you post and read it afterwards.

Quote:

So your saying it doesn't make sense  that there maybe a whole of different mathematical principles that could put us in a whole other dimensional realm like 4th or 5th dimensions or parallel universes. Why, because of your inability to accept anything is possible...oh yeah that's right you said Sure it's possible....whatever bro....good thing your not on the show You're smarter than a 5th grader...zowie..zing!

No, he said your question didn't make sense. Now that you've asked the question in a slightly better form let me try. there may well be undiscovered maths that can do what you claim. What does that have to do with your "I don't know so God must have done it" argument again?

Quote:
Oh and sorry i meant to say is, to be able to practice self fullfilment without prejudice. Meaning, you would rather go on living your life the way you see fit without reservation or reprimand, fear of answering to a higher authority than yourself so it it would be far easier to just deny God and His existence because that's a mental battle you don't want to be burdened with...in other words feeling guilty for doing something deemed morally unacceptable. My Bad. I should have worded it better but I was pressed for time. Sorry

The "Atheists just want to live without accountability" sounds silly from a follower of a religion that has an infinitely forgiving God. As a Christian, you have carte blanche to do whatever you desire without penalty as long as you act really sorry for it, ask Jesus for forgiveness and promise to never do it again (until you want to). We poor atheists have to live with the responsibility of out actions in society and their affects on others. Nice of your God to let you be immoral twits like him, huh?

Quote:

So what was there before the BBT, Thomathy? You suggested there may have been something there prior to the Big Bang....do you have a clue? I asked Thomathy what, when there was nothing , that created the first molecule? I didn't mention universes I said if you went back far enough in time before the BBT there had to be something that created the molecule that replicated and formed a nucleus that formed an atom that........................................................................................Can you answer that? I'm not here to debate science but show that God's creations are in fact quite scientific. Dispel that without rhetoric!

We don't know yet. You don't either. Why does that scare you into giving the Canaanite deity you're borrwing credit?

Quote:
Yes , okay they could have invented words like gjhdkflsuy to describe an event but it wouldn't have made sense to create mumbo jumbo that know one could relate too....it would have just made it that more confusing...Why speak over someones head if your trying to teach people something unless you want to confuse them and the Devil is the author of confusion...where God is the Author of Wisdom and Truth albeit complex and hard to grasp.!  Even the pictographs, or heiroglyhics were consistent with there understanding as it relates to their culture. A drawing, or pictograph is a lot easier to explain because it is a visual concept as opposed to comprehending a literal one.

For example if I told you i saw a ufo and described or even wrote about it it wouldn't have as much impact unless I drew you a picture to show you what I saw. Sure you could use your imagination. But I don't want you to create something that wasn't there in your own perception..in other words lean unto your own understanding, so I must convey the image on paprys, paper, stone whatever to explain visually what words alone could not articulate!

You mean unlike the words that the writers of the Bible used to create your God out of their imagination for you?

Your God doesn't want us to use our own understanding - don't you read your holy book? Proverbs 3:5 states "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." That must be why theists like gods so much - they don't have to think except to remember how to ask forgiveness.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote:Norton

BADWAY wrote:

Norton Fan

 Wow....I am impressed, you spelled God with a capital G in quotations then to be cute and describe Him with a lower case g....yes you all are confused...no question...but I love you anyways....

I get that you look in the mirror and you can see similarities between you and an ape....I'm sorry your going to hate me for this but if this is your picture i would have to say you are an attractive woman and i see nothing in your eyes, your smile or hair that would cause me to suspect your ancestors swung from trees. When you walk past a tree do you pause and get the inclination to hang upside down by your tail and grunt while scratching your armpit......sorry I never had that inclination...I don't even really like bananas...i bet you adore them!! haha

But enough with the bantering and sarcasm really. Your attempts at wit underwhelm me! I hope your not a stand up comedian. I hope that your smile is not after hearing yourself talk....But it doesn't change the fact that I think your a beautiful woman and it is the ugliness of atheism that taints your radiant glow....If your married I hope you and yours the best if not I hope you find someone who loves not for who you are but in spite of.!

And as we know, Christianity treats women SO well... You really don't read your Bible or go to church do you?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


EdwardNortonFan
Posts: 34
Joined: 2009-10-14
User is offlineOffline
I didn't spell god with a

I didn't spell god with a capital "g". I used YOUR quote, then responded to it. Thanks for the flattery, but you are an ignorant person. I appreciate your kindness, though. It's quite unexpected coming from a fundie like yourself. You really need to read about evolution and educate yourself. We ARE indeed apes, there is no argument against it. It is a FACT.


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13689
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
BADWAY wrote:Can we agree

BADWAY wrote:
Can we agree that both sides may be wrong or at least not know enough to say that without a doubt either of us knows the complete truth?

NO.

What can be said about the nature of the universe is that there will be things we have, as a species, yet to discover, and even more the species will never know WHEN it goes extinct, just like the other 99% of life that once lived on this planet.

That gap in knowledge science has yet to fill should not constitute inserting the absurdity of a giant super brain with magical powers and no physical body.

We know what a human brain looks like. We also know that humans are capable of using that brain to make up stories and fool themselves into believing them to be fact. This psychological trap has existed since throughout our evolution.

AND, someone once said, "If horses had gods, their gods would look like them".

Human gods used to reflect nature, such as storms, volcanos, earthquakes, animal migration. Eventually the gods they made up became more human like and polytheistic, and then progressed to monotheism.

You have merely fallen for an emotional trap because the idea of a super hero appeals to you. While understandable merely from a psychological standpoint in human evolution, when better information comes out about the nature of reality, the wise seek it.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37