In the beginning, God DIVIDED the heaven and the earth

Anonymouse
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In the beginning, God DIVIDED the heaven and the earth

Just heard this on the radio : Seems the first line from genesis got translated wrong. Some old testament expert claims the correct translation of the original text is : God divided (not created) the heaven and the earth.

Could be old news, I'm not sure, but the expert mentioned she was going to use this discovery to try and get a dialogue going with creationists. Well, good luck with that.

Still, sounds interesting. Anyone else hear about this ?


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It wasn't by zero was it?  

It wasn't by zero was it?

 

 


Anonymouse
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Cpt_pineapple wrote:It

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

It wasn't by zero was it?

 

 

Found a link, but it's in dutch, sorry : http://www.ru.nl/onderzoek/instituten/overzicht/theology/persberichten/hoogleraar/

 

Edit : Well, I don't know what to make of this. Ellen van Wolde teaches old testament exegesis and a whole load of other stuff at the Radboud Universiteit Nijmegen. The rest of her qualifications seem impressive, but I wouldn't know.

She'll be talking about this in her inaugural speech tomorrow. If they post an english translation, I'll post a link.


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Anonymouse wrote:Just heard

Anonymouse wrote:

Just heard this on the radio : Seems the first line from genesis got translated wrong. Some old testament expert claims the correct translation of the original text is : God divided (not created) the heaven and the earth.

Could be old news, I'm not sure, but the expert mentioned she was going to use this discovery to try and get a dialogue going with creationists. Well, good luck with that.

Still, sounds interesting. Anyone else hear about this ?

OK, so where did they come from, if He didn't create them....

It is at least consistent that this God can't create something from nothing. He has to form Adam out of dirt, and Eve out of part of Adam.

So the Universe just always existed, God just rearranged a few things...

Has anyone told the fundies this?

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

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Anonymouse
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BobSpence1 wrote:Has anyone

BobSpence1 wrote:
Has anyone told the fundies this?

She's planning to, and in her line of work, she must have met some, so she should know what she's in for.

Anyway, according to that press release, it gets even better. If you follow the correct translation, and other bits of the original hebrew text, not only did god not create the heavens and the earth, but life itself was also there already. 

In the form of....erm....seamonsters. 

Oh, and apparently, there were other gods there as well.

She's gonna write a book about it : "Back to the beginning". This could get interesting.

 

Edit : The book seems to be the text of her inaugural speech, which you can download here ( http://www.ru.nl/oraties/ ). It's the first one on the list, but it's all in Dutch, so...yeah...

I skimmed a few pages, and it seems to be a rather dry linguistic explanation centering around the hebrew verb "bara". I might try to read the whole thing later, and see if there's anything worth translating in there.


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Found an english link for

Found an english link for this story : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6274502/God-is-not-the-Creator-claims-academic.html

There used to be a couple of bible experts on this board. I was wondering if they heard of this, and if this is in any way as big a deal as she claims it is. I've read some reactions from theologians, and they're not impressed because they say they already knew this.

From the article :

She concluded that God did not create, he separated: the Earth from the Heaven, the land from the sea, the sea monsters from the birds and the swarming at the ground.

"There was already water," she said.

"There were sea monsters. God did create some things, but not the Heaven and Earth. The usual idea of creating-out-of-nothing, creatio ex nihilo, is a big misunderstanding."

God came later and made the earth livable, separating the water from the land and brought light into the darkness.

She said she hoped that her conclusions would spark "a robust debate", since her finds are not only new, but would also touch the hearts of many religious people.

She said: "Maybe I am even hurting myself. I consider myself to be religious and the Creator used to be very special, as a notion of trust. I want to keep that trust."

A spokesman for the Radboud University said: "The new interpretation is a complete shake up of the story of the Creation as we know it."


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 Well Christians already

 Well Christians already disagree with each other over a multitude of theological issues,  what's one more schism going to matter ?  Perhaps, as it always has in the past, a new denomination will arise.  Better think of a new name.....er, the Dividertarians ?

www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/misanthropy

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I fnd it doubtfull that even

I fnd it doubtfull that even if she has the correct translation that it will be accepted. Christians love their creation event.

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


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Anonymouse wrote:Found an

 

Read the comments on the article.  That tells the whole story.

 

If this stands up to scrutiny, it might make a difference down the road.  It certainly won't change the mind of a a fundamentalist though.

My favorites (from the AN thread)

"In the beginning God created Heaven and Earth. The Bible says it. I believe it. End of argument!"

"Just another goof looking for her ball. She's giving a human perspective on creation. She is getting her name in lights so to speak. I don't buy into any of it for I believe in God and he has no beginning and no end. "

"another futile attempt to discredit Gods word, but Gods word is infailable & it says "one day EVERY KNEE will bow"....so try again!"

"No matter how deep human being think or study, you just cannot comprehend who God is, As far as I know is that God is the beginning and the end, He is the creator of heaven and earth. Pls for crying out loud don't get this thing twisted. "

"I cannot say enough to contradict her. From one word she has developed her own version of creation. So what is it now, the world according to this lame brain? I wonder if she understands the concept of how ridiculous she sounds when she is utterly rewriting genius. Sea-monsters and all that rot."

"Ok, well then, explain: Gen. 2:4 (NIV)- "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when the were CREATED. When the LORD God MADE the EARTH and the HEAVENS -nuff said."

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


Anonymouse
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mellestad wrote: Read the

mellestad wrote:

 Read the comments on the article.  That tells the whole story.

 

If this stands up to scrutiny, it might make a difference down the road.  It certainly won't change the mind of a a fundamentalist though.

My favorites (from the AN thread)

"In the beginning God created Heaven and Earth. The Bible says it. I believe it. End of argument!"

Lol, yeah, that's my favorite too. The bible doesn't say that. That's the whole point.



mellestad wrote:
"Just another goof looking for her ball. She's giving a human perspective on creation. She is getting her name in lights so to speak. I don't buy into any of it for I believe in God and he has no beginning and no end. "

"another futile attempt to discredit Gods word, but Gods word is infailable & it says "one day EVERY KNEE will bow"....so try again!"

"No matter how deep human being think or study, you just cannot comprehend who God is, As far as I know is that God is the beginning and the end, He is the creator of heaven and earth. Pls for crying out loud don't get this thing twisted. "

"I cannot say enough to contradict her. From one word she has developed her own version of creation. So what is it now, the world according to this lame brain? I wonder if she understands the concept of how ridiculous she sounds when she is utterly rewriting genius. Sea-monsters and all that rot."

"Ok, well then, explain: Gen. 2:4 (NIV)- "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when the were CREATED. When the LORD God MADE the EARTH and the HEAVENS -nuff said."

Well, in a way I can't even blame these idiots for those reactions. None of them have read the whole thesis, and the article does a poor job of presenting her arguments. (She actually does explain Gen 2:4 and all the rest of it)

I kinda feel sorry for her. The credo she wrote at the end of her thesis is actually rather touching. I might try to translate that bit at least.


mellestad
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I feel sad for everyone.

I feel sad for everyone.  If I were still a theist, reading something like that would make me feel ashamed.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


Anonymouse
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Sent the link to PZ Meyers.

Sent the link to PZ Meyers. Here are his two cents :

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/10/throw_out_your_bibles_and_free.php  (second topic)

 


mellestad
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Anonymouse wrote:Sent the

Anonymouse wrote:

Sent the link to PZ Meyers. Here are his two cents :

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/10/throw_out_your_bibles_and_free.php  (second topic)

 

 

Wow, he's a angry!  Lol.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.