Pandorum embraces anti-atheist rhetoric *spoilers*

Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
Pandorum embraces anti-atheist rhetoric *spoilers*

***Major Spoiler Alert***

Just saw Pandorum today. It's a decent sci-fi horror, but ultimately I was disappointed by the central message. The movie ominously (for me at least) starts with a final message from Earth which ends "God bless, and God speed." I'm hyper-sensitive to god-language in films, especially science fiction films, so I was hoping this was just a minor slip of dialogue, but as we reach the climax of the film, it becomes apparent that it was not.

The central message of the movie is the old cliche: If we give up on god, all hell will break loose. Payton at one point says something to the effect of, "You think God is going to save us? God is dead! We're the kings now! Join my nihilistic/anarchistic/egocentric fantasy!" Then Bower says something to the effect of, "There will always be law, blah blah blah...."

It's so frigging disappointing to get the same cliche and populist messages over and over again. I expect it from most hollywood movies, but I tend to raise my expectations with science fiction. Sometimes you get a good rationalist message. Sometimes it's not all: Science is evil, nobody really knows anything, god is necessary, humanity is depraved, etc. Not often, but sometimes.

I also saw the movie '9' recently. Same basic problem. 'The Machine' is evil, and represents all the evils of 'arrogant' science, and only a 'soul' can save the world. Yadda yadda yadda.

You know, I always find it depressingly funny that all these anti-science, anti-rational, anti-atheist movies *depend* crucially on fantastical elements in the story in order to make it make *some* sort of sense. In '9', it depended on a magical device which could suck souls out of people and put them into machines.

In Pandorum, the whole movie depends on two un-realistic fantasy elements. First, the pandorum illness itself. This illness basically turns you into a psychopath bent on destroying everything. Gee, that's handy. All we have to do is give this imaginary illness to the one character representing Nietzsche, and suddenly our thesis falls into our laps without any creative work on the writer's part. Second, the mutants/aliens who 'evolve' more rapidly due to some magical gene therapy treatment thingy. Of course, we all know that 'evolution' logically implies the end result will be a psychopathic killing machine a la Alien. Bonus, this gives us the convenient excuse to have the chaotic kill-or-be-killed environment that permeates the movie, and further establishes that atheism implies nihilism and destruction.

These kinds of fantasy-element short-cuts are what ruin good science fiction. If you can't tell your story without making up some magical plot device to make it all 'make sense', then it's really no longer science fiction anymore, is it? It's more of a science fantasy. It's lazy, it's weak, and it's frustrating. I've got no problem with 'stretching' science, but it's got to remain realistic. Speculative, not just 'made up'. Otherwise, what's the freaking point?

Anyway, my verdict: Pandorum, mostly good, but ultimately a disappointment. Worth watching, but by no means a classic, IMO.

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


HisWillness
atheistRational VIP!
HisWillness's picture
Posts: 4100
Joined: 2008-02-21
User is offlineOffline
natural wrote:These kinds of

natural wrote:
These kinds of fantasy-element short-cuts are what ruin good science fiction.

Absolutely. I've seen a recent re-emergence of the deus ex machina used without irony a few times now, and it's so lazy. At least the ancient version of the plot device was a god literally raised out of the floor to save the main character. Even then, it was lazy, but it's good for a show.

My least favourite example would have to be movies like 28 Days Later. So ... there's this virus ... that allows you to run full-tilt and vomit blood for more than a day? No. That's stupid. Anyone who has even had a hangover knows that's stupid. Solution: wait indoors for three days, everyone infected is dead. Case closed.

On the other hand, I really enjoyed the last few years of the revived Doctor Who. Well-formed stories, cute story arcs, tons of scientific-sounding mumbo-jumbo, and the Doctor character serves as an entertaining and funny version of the deus ex machina.

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


ClockCat
ClockCat's picture
Posts: 2265
Joined: 2009-03-26
User is offlineOffline
:I

 I'm going to disagree with you on 9. I don't think that was 9's problem.

 

 

 

9 was just a terrible movie in it's own right, the fault can't solely be lain on portrayal of machines. Lack of plot, character development...and instead replacing them with visuals, does not make a good movie experience. Let alone the complete lack of a real ending....it felt so abruptly over with a cheesy cop-out I would of sworn Stephen King wrote it.

 

 

 

Scinema (I made a word!) as a whole is severely lacking in quality. How many movies have you seen this year you actually can recall? Movies with notable influence, that changed your viewpoints or forced you to reflect on things or ponder things you otherwise wouldn't have? Stories that are not only unpredictable, but masterfully planned....something that you can't put your finger on 5 minutes into the film and know that it is following "the formula" which will let you know exactly how the rest of the movie is going to play out, with exception of a few minor twists and turns?

 

 

Even Indian Jones was ruined. Something that was a classic film series about exploration and discovery of not only other cultures, but of mythologies and fears. Witnessing travel through iconic moments of time, through a man confused and trying to find his way through the problems..all while trying to do the right thing. Instead we have a man jumping in a refridgerator to survive a nuclear blast, and a note falling in his lap to tell him where to go. No interesting traps, or puzzles...instead a brief native population and aliens. ALIENS. Really? Who were the bad guys in that last movie anyway? I can't even remember because they were so insignificant. I don't even remember what they were after. 

 

 

At least I still have books. The new Codex Alera comes out in a month or so. That will keep me entertained for a good 6 hours of quiet, peaceful time.

 

That isn't even  mentioning all the other characters from various worlds that I find interesting, like Pug's from Midkemia. Movies be damned if they can't make as good a story as I get from books. I will take a plot over mindless explosions any day of the week. THATS RIGHT YOU HEARD ME MICHAEL BAY.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
Add Surrogates to the list

Add Surrogates to the list of massively disappointing science fiction movies. It's a computer virus that blows up your brains, yeah. BTW, the FBI has control of the entire world's technology with a simple Yes/No prompt on a computer screen. Oh, and Machines are Evil, don't forget.

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


Anonymouse
atheist
Posts: 1687
Joined: 2008-05-04
User is offlineOffline
Movies suck. The only good

Movies suck. The only good SF I saw recently was a TV-mini series : Torchwood, Children of Earth.

The only bit of the aliens you see are some slimy, aggresive tentacles, but damn, those things were fucking scary. The reason for them being there was even scarier, but what really freaked me out was the the way the government and the military dealt with the situation. It just struck me that, yes, that's exactly what they would do if that really happened, and it was more horrifying than any Alien movie ever was.

The only downside here is that the whole mini-series is also the third season of the Torchwood series (it's a doc who spin-off), so it helps to know who the characters are to get the full effect, but I still think this works as a stand-alone series.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/torchwood/


Thomathy
SuperfanBronze Member
Thomathy's picture
Posts: 1861
Joined: 2007-08-20
User is offlineOffline
I watched a decent animation

I watched a decent animation the other day.  Battle for Terra.  Bit cheesy, yeah, but it was a nice take on environmental responsibility.

Otherwise ...there weren't any films I thoroughly enjoyed other than for their action/effects.  Jennifer's Body is truly funny, however.  There were a few other film fest (TIFF) movies I liked, but I can't think of their names presently.

I agree that 9's problem wasn't with the machines' portrayal.  It was supposed to be a cautionary tale.  It failed miserably.  I'm fairly certain that the short film on which the feature length is based must have been better only because it didn't have to expand on a plot that didn't really exist and didn't have to develop literally one dimensional characters for one hour and a half.

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


Anonymouse
atheist
Posts: 1687
Joined: 2008-05-04
User is offlineOffline
ClockCat wrote: That isn't

ClockCat wrote:

 

That isn't even  mentioning all the other characters from various worlds that I find interesting, like Pug's from Midkemia. Movies be damned if they can't make as good a story as I get from books.

Is that the wizard from the riftwar books ? Old people keep telling me I should read those. It would have to be at least as good as the Song of Fire and Ice books (Can't wait for the HBO series. It will be awesome), or I'm not going to bother.


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
Well natural,

Well natural, everything that you found in Pandorum was there. However, I did not find any of it to be so overplayed as you did. Yah sure, the last message from Earth closed with the word “godspeed”. Really though, it was sent only a couple of hundred years ahead of our time. If whomever sent it was of the bent to say such a thing, then big fat hairy deal.

 

Past that, I found it to be fairly standard as a hack and slash type of movie but set on a spaceship. Entwined with that, of course, were the remaining plot threads (figuring out what was actually happening/had happened, how/if they could be fixed and so on).

 

I did find the cannibal guy to be rather less than necessary though. Really, would it have been so hard to fire up a computer terminal in the earlier scene where they were in the bio lab/repository and just access the ship's log? Instead, the log had to have been saved by someone and recorded onto what amounted to an old style vinyl record. I find that rather less likely as someone would have to have had an idea of just how to make such a recording in the first place.

 

Apart from that, I must add that I read the plot on wikipedia before I saw the movie and even so, I really did not see major plot elements coming up ahead of time. That alone made it worth something more than the usual movie fare, where even without advanced knowledge, one can often tell where a movie is going before it actually goes there.

 

Overall, I would say that it was a fun movie but one that probably will not amount to much. I will give it 4/10 stars.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


Brian Jeffery (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Absolutes

I think anyone that speaks in absolutes misses the boat.  The universe is vast and mostly still a mystery.  To imply we "know" anything for certain is arrogant - whether you are a religious fundamentalist or an atheist.


MichaelMcF
Science Freak
MichaelMcF's picture
Posts: 525
Joined: 2008-01-22
User is offlineOffline
**Maybe Spoilers**  To be

**Maybe Spoilers**

 

 

To be honest I think you're being waaaaaaaaaaaaay too twithcy on language and reading way too much into Pandorum in regards to any "anti-atheist sentiment".  I watched it the other night and that's not the message I got at all. 

At most I think the message is that without a functioning society or any form of social tether we find that morality becomes less absolute - a point I find it hard to disagree with.  The closest it comes to an "anti-atheist" point is the same "anti-science" point that it's easy to come across in all science fiction and even then I think it's clutching at straws: pandorum afflicts the hero when he's isolated onboard man's greatest acheivement and he's only free of the condition and truly awake when back in a natural world.  In that instance I would also tie the "forced evolution" thing into that bracket as well.  Man shouldn't fuck with nature because terrible things happen when we intervene.

I don't even see the evolved aliens as being an indictement of evolution.  All we know about them is the bodies were conditioned to adapt through the power of MAGIC.... ahem... SCIENCE (TM) and they've done just that.  Evolved in a scenario where it was kill or be killed.

In other words I thought it was an ok sci-fi horror which carried the same standard messages on humanity and hubris that you'll find in a million other things.

 

Forget Jesus, the stars died so that you could be here
- Lawrence Krauss


Tapey
atheist
Tapey's picture
Posts: 1474
Joined: 2009-01-23
User is offlineOffline
ClockCat wrote: That isn't

ClockCat wrote:

 

That isn't even  mentioning all the other characters from various worlds that I find interesting, like Pug's from Midkemia. Movies be damned if they can't make as good a story as I get from books. I will take a plot over mindless explosions any day of the week. THATS RIGHT YOU HEARD ME MICHAEL BAY.

 

Pug and the never ending story.... good books but dam you gotta know when to start a new story. I just lost interest half way through the series. Same with the Wheel of time series. Same with all these epic RAWR fantasy i made a 30 book series  type things, they get old. 3 books per series should be the rule more then enough time to tell a good griping story without leting it get stale.

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


Thomathy
SuperfanBronze Member
Thomathy's picture
Posts: 1861
Joined: 2007-08-20
User is offlineOffline
Tapey wrote:Pug and the

Tapey wrote:

Pug and the never ending story.... good books but dam you gotta know when to start a new story. I just lost interest half way through the series. Same with the Wheel of time series. Same with all these epic RAWR fantasy i made a 30 book series  type things, they get old. 3 books per series should be the rule more then enough time to tell a good griping story without leting it get stale.

Half way through Wheel of Time?  You might as well read the last book (which will be published in two separate tomes) when it comes out.  Give your self some semblance of closure.  I stuck through all the books.  My eyes may have bled.

You want a good series that will definitely end and has good story line?  Malazan Book of the Fallen.  Starts with Gardens of the Moon.  It's ten books and they'll be done by 2011.

Wheel of Time.  Goddamn that fat, dead bastard.

 

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


Tapey
atheist
Tapey's picture
Posts: 1474
Joined: 2009-01-23
User is offlineOffline
I gave up on the Wheel of

I gave up on the Wheel of time at I think end of book 6 or 7. Its the one where Rand becomes king of illian or something I cannot remeber, long time ago. I may pick up where i left off at some point I did enjoy it, maybe i will get back into it, i have all the books that are out just havn't bothered to pick up the next one.

 

10 books is a little to many for a series imo, they normally are just meandering by then but i will take a look at them.

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


Thomathy
SuperfanBronze Member
Thomathy's picture
Posts: 1861
Joined: 2007-08-20
User is offlineOffline
Tapey wrote:10 books is a

Tapey wrote:
10 books is a little to many for a series imo, they normally are just meandering by then but i will take a look at them.
These books don't meander.  Each one is an entire story unto itself.  These are big books (1000+ pages in Trade) with fully padded plots, intriguing sub-plots and excellent character development with an interconnectivity that blends the tales wonderfully together.  The back story is impressive and what I think is the most masterful aspect of the writing is that the stories span a world telling separate and connected tales that culminate or will culminate in a great convergence.  (Convergence is, if a cliched plot device, the basis of Erikson's story telling.)

Quote:
I gave up on the Wheel of time at I think end of book 6 or 7.
Yeah.  You gave up, which was smart.  My comment about the fat, dead bastard wasn't just for fun.  Robert Jordan died before he finished writing the series.

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


Tapey
atheist
Tapey's picture
Posts: 1474
Joined: 2009-01-23
User is offlineOffline
Yeah im aware that he died,

Yeah im aware that he died, I stoped reading after he died and before it was anounced that someone would finish it. No doubt part of the reason i stoped, beyond the fact that it was at the weakest point of the series imo. I mean why continue if it is never going to be finished? Well thanks for recommending that series i shall find a copy of the first book and see if it is to my liking.

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


ClockCat
ClockCat's picture
Posts: 2265
Joined: 2009-03-26
User is offlineOffline
:3

Anonymouse wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

 

That isn't even  mentioning all the other characters from various worlds that I find interesting, like Pug's from Midkemia. Movies be damned if they can't make as good a story as I get from books.

Is that the wizard from the riftwar books ? Old people keep telling me I should read those. It would have to be at least as good as the Song of Fire and Ice books (Can't wait for the HBO series. It will be awesome), or I'm not going to bother.

 

Yes. It is a good series. Be aware however that several sagas in the world of Midkemia move to other characters, and at a later date from previous titles. It is a developing world, and some characters end up staying...while most do not.

 

However, it has gotten back to it's roots with the latest saga, and are back to dealing with the characters that introduced me to the series. Start with Magician. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Magician-Apprentice-Riftwar-Raymond-Feist/dp/0553564943/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255164806&sr=1-2

 

Theres a link. Raymond Feist does a good job, even if he frequently leads you off on a false path of thinking how it will develop with tricky foreshadowing.

 

Which you don't see until after the event happens. Then you smack yourself in the face for thinking about the situations all in the wrong way, and predicting an entirely different outcome.

 

However, I find Jim Butcher to do an even better job of this. I'm hooked on the Codex Alera series right now. The main character, Tavi, is on a world where (from what I can gather, speculating here) citizens from Rome somehow fell through a portal or something and developed instead of technologically, on symbiotic creatures of this new world. They tie in both Roman military, honorary titles, and logistics/siege weaponry...everything. The only thing that was confirmed was that the humans on this planet were not originally from there. Anyway, Tavi is basically the only person that can't use these symbiotic creatures, so he has to compensate by use of his mind. He is generally treated as an invalid, but repeatedly proves himself capable.

 

As for wheel of time, Robert Jordan is a good writer. He is very detailed. Unfortunately, he gets into great details about things that don't concern the story or anything of real interest. He can go pages describing a wall, or a meadow, castle, building...etc. 

 

Also, I DESPISE his depiction of women. I want to strangle them. I remember getting to a section with the women..and then skipping ahead, glancing at the end of that section, and moving on. I recall doing this more than once.

 

They are just badly made characters. Now Perrin, Matt and Rand are all interesting in their own respective ways. Rand less so than Matt and Perrin.

 

I would say Matt is probably the best designed character in that series.

 

 

 

Anyway, I would suggest Codex Alera first, as it is a shorter romp. http://www.jim-butcher.com/ should have some information on it, as well as prologues into the books so you can read a little first.

 

After that I'd move to the riftwar books. They are fun, and there are characters from them that are so well fleshed out you can't forget them. Jimmy the Hand was probably the most infamous one.

 

 

 

I could recommend a large number of other series...I have a great love of fantasy books. I generally find character development, plot, and believability of character actions to be the most important things.

In other words, characters that are thoughtful and surprise you with things that you might not have considered in their place. There is nothing worse to me than watching a character panic, and the solution is right in front of them.

 

That is one reason why most horror films I don't see how anyone can find frightening. The characters are not believable, they are only there as a matter of convenience most of the time for someone else to fulfill a role. 

 

I don't find that good entertainment unless the movie is so bad it is laughable. Of course, your preferences may vary. What I like you might not!

 

 

Fire and Ice I found to be pretty good. I would say, I give it a 7/10. The boxes thing was priceless, as well as the "pure" people.

Codex Alera I give an 8/10. I am repeatedly surprised by Jim Butcher's talent at storytelling. (If you want a more modern-themed fiction there are the Dresden Files he writes as well)

Wheel of Time I give a 4/10. 6/10 without the female characters dulling it up by not doing anything entertaining but gossiping with each other. 

Riftwar I'd say starts at a 9..then drops to a 6. It goes from 6-7 until the latest saga where it comes back up to an 8. (it's like 30 or so books) Expect a lot of intrigue in these books. They revolve around it.

Chronicles of Amber I'd give a 7-8. The first book is kind of terrible, but then it gets progressively better and better. 

Wizard of Earthsea series (from the 60s ad 70s) I give a 5-6. It's a good story. The Sci Fi movie doesn't really do it justice. There is little intrigue though honestly, it is pretty much a straight-cut story, with pretty predictable characters.

The Innocent Mage, and the Awakened Mage (Kingmaker, Kingbreaker) I would give a 7/10. It is only two books, but pretty enthralling for a short story.

 

There are so many others...I would suggest Kingdom for Sale, and a whole slew of other good books and series. I don't really know where to start. 

 

 

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


Anonymouse
atheist
Posts: 1687
Joined: 2008-05-04
User is offlineOffline
ClockCat wrote:Start with

ClockCat wrote:
Start with Magician.

I think I will. Thanks for the link and the mini-review. I suppose a book that's been around for such a long time, and has such an iconic title, should have something going for it.

Still, if this turns out to be crap like Wheel of Time or Wizard's first rule, I shall be vexed.

This Jim Butcher fella sounds talented. Heard good things about the Dresden Files.

ClockCat wrote:
Robert Jordan is a good writer.

...uhm.........Is not !

ClockCat wrote:
Also, I DESPISE his depiction of women. I want to strangle them.

Me first !

"Hey, Nynaeve ! Let's strip down to our shifts !"

"Yeah, let's ! And I'll just stand here and pull my braid !"

"Let's do BOTH !"

"Weeeeeee !!"

ClockCat wrote:
Now Perrin, Matt and Rand are all interesting in their own respective ways.

Actually, I want to strangle them too.

ClockCat wrote:
I could recommend a large number of other series...I have a great love of fantasy books.

Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman books ? How about Terry Pratchett ?  If you don't like him, please don't tell me. People who don't like Pratchett are scum. 

ClockCat wrote:
That is one reason why most horror films I don't see how anyone can find frightening. The characters are not believable, they are only there as a matter of convenience most of the time for someone else to fulfill a role.

I guess most of those movies are more about creating an atmosphere than telling a good story.

ClockCat wrote:
Of course, your preferences may vary. What I like you might not!

Meh, I don't like movies anymore. Got burned too many times and they never give you your money back when it sucks.

ClockCat wrote:
Wizard of Earthsea series (from the 60s ad 70s) I give a 5-6. It's a good story.

That one I read and liked. Not too long, which is always good. The Miyazaki movie wasn't too bad either.

ClockCat wrote:
There are so many others..

...And too little time. And I'm behind on comicbooks as well. Being a geek is hard work.


Tapey
atheist
Tapey's picture
Posts: 1474
Joined: 2009-01-23
User is offlineOffline
Magician was actually the

Magician was actually the book that got me into reading, it is a very good book, i cannot imagen someone not liking it. Then again people have differant tastes. It is far better than any of the Wheel of time stuff. Just ignore that the main charicter has the worst name in all of history "Pug", maybe that is just me though who is annoyed by that name.

 

Robert Jorden was a good writer, i like how he writes he just got some very bad ideas. I 100% agree about the woman in the books, tbh they were pretty much just steriotypes and annoying ones at that. I quite liked Perrin but god matt annoyed me some times, atleast he was interesting most of the time. Rand was ok, good in the begining and boring by the time i stoped reading.

 

 

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


ClockCat
ClockCat's picture
Posts: 2265
Joined: 2009-03-26
User is offlineOffline
:3

Tapey wrote:

Magician was actually the book that got me into reading, it is a very good book, i cannot imagen someone not liking it. Then again people have differant tastes. It is far better than any of the Wheel of time stuff. Just ignore that the main charicter has the worst name in all of history "Pug", maybe that is just me though who is annoyed by that name.

 

 

Some call him Milamber.
 

 

 

Oh, and Pratchett is hilarious. 

 

 

I have a number of discworld books around here. 

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


ClockCat
ClockCat's picture
Posts: 2265
Joined: 2009-03-26
User is offlineOffline
:o

Anonymouse wrote:

ClockCat wrote:
Start with Magician.

I think I will. Thanks for the link and the mini-review. I suppose a book that's been around for such a long time, and has such an iconic title, should have something going for it.

Still, if this turns out to be crap like Wheel of Time or Wizard's first rule, I shall be vexed.

This Jim Butcher fella sounds talented. Heard good things about the Dresden Files.

 

ARGH.

 

OK I made a mistake.

 

I mixed up the wizard's first rule series with fire and ice. Wizard's first rule gets that rating.

 

How did you not like that series? The last few books were fairly well done I thought. It didn't start out the smoothest, but it progressed pretty quickly.

 

Anyway, on to George R.R. Martin's Song of Fire and Ice...I FUCKING HATE IT.

 

IT IS TERRIBLE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hate it because I want to read the next one and there is no real release date. It took 5 years for the last book..and it's already been 4 years since the last one.. It was 2 years between the first two!  I'm convinced he just wants to make me suffer. I think I dreamed about that damn frozen wall after reading about it again and again and again so much through that last book.

 

I have to say, he is a good writer. But I hate that it takes forever for a new book. 

 

 

 

There are some books that I go through like drinking something. I went through this series like that, and then was left with nothing and no conclusion, as well as no time frame for the next drink. I go through the Codex series as well like this, but  Jim Butcher releases a new novel in the series yearly. I can't stress how happy that makes me, especially with no diminished quality whatsoever. He also manages to continue writing Dresden novels. I'm not sure how he does all of it at once. 

 

 

He originally planned for Codex Alera to be a 3 book series, but he ended up having to split the story up into more books as he wrote it. One month two weeks until the last book, book six....

 

 

*glee*

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


Anonymouse
atheist
Posts: 1687
Joined: 2008-05-04
User is offlineOffline
ClockCat wrote:I mixed up

ClockCat wrote:

I mixed up the wizard's first rule series with fire and ice. Wizard's first rule gets that rating.

 

How did you not like that series?

One book was enough for me. That lady with her magic pain-stick.....that was kinda creepy, the way it just went on and on.... He spent waaaay too much time on all that torture stuff.

ClockCat wrote:
Anyway, on to George R.R. Martin's Song of Fire and Ice...I FUCKING HATE IT.

  

ClockCat wrote:
I hate it because I want to read the next one and there is no real release date.

Ah right. Yeah, that does suck. Dude gets you hooked and then he cuts you off. Oh well, at least we're getting the HBO show. That'll probably be done before the next book comes out.