Accusations of Racism? Nah... Nothing to it...

Hambydammit
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Accusations of Racism? Nah... Nothing to it...

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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I was reading about this in

I was reading about this in the Globe.  It's interesting to read of Jimmy Carter bringing it up and then read a professor at McGill (I believe), tell us that the accusations are unfounded.  There is racism.  How much?  Anyone's guess.  I don't believe it can be quantified in terms of population.  The majority is probably more nuanced than Hamby's blatant examples.  I'm not, American, though.

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 Racism is almost always

 Racism is almost always nuanced these days.  The first (and most ironic) problem with identifying racism is that it can only happen between races.  

For instance, George W Bush was often portrayed as a monkey, but it wasn't racism because white people were drawing the cartoons.  Racism was not an option.  Bush's monkey-toons were meant to call attention to what was perceived as his rather primitive intellect.  White people have never been portrayed as monkeys to degrade them as "less than human."  Black people have almost constantly been portrayed as monkeys since the first slave ships hit America soil, and it was precisely because they were seen as less than human.

So the same act has two very different meanings.  Whether the author of a specific Obama-Monkey is a racist or not is unfortunately not an issue.  Both blacks and whites in America are culturally aware of the Black-Monkey connection and its racist significance.  An Obama-Monkey is racist.

I'm sure EXC will jump into this conversation at some point, and though I won't agree with him, he'll be on the right track.  Racism is evolutionary.  We have genetic predispositions towards our close relatives, and before world travel, whites and blacks simply didn't occupy the same space.  So, if you're white and that guy over there is black, he's not your relative, nor is he part of your tribe.  He's an outsider.

Racism is also very subtle.  When the cashier at a convenience store stiffens slightly when a group of young black men in "urban apparel" walk in, is he doing that because they're black or because most robberies in his area are committed by blacks?  What's the real difference between those two reasons?  They're both essentially "Because they're black."  I suppose if we want to get really technical, it would only be racist if the clerk would not react exactly the same if white people committed almost all robberies, and it was a group of white men.  But... how could we possibly know?

So, we do what we can.  We guess racism when someone reacts in a way that seems over-the-top, and the object of their displeasure happens to be another color.  

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I don't think it's racism is

I don't think it's racism is first anymore. The Republican party has a black chairman, we don't conservatives quitting the party over this. Rush Limbaugh goes out of his way to put on black conservatives, we don't see conservatives boycotting him over this. The racism that there is comes after they don't like your politics. So maybe that's progress that politics now trumps race.

But it is ridiculous the accusations of racism by people on the left. Just a sign that they can't win their arguments with logic.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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Hambydammit wrote:For

Hambydammit wrote:

For instance, George W Bush was often portrayed as a monkey, but it wasn't racism because white people were drawing the cartoons.

But Bush actually looked like a monkey. It wasn't a stretch. With Obama, the comparison isn't visually apt, so you know someone's making a different reference.

Hamby wrote:
Racism is also very subtle.  When the cashier at a convenience store stiffens slightly when a group of young black men in "urban apparel" walk in, is he doing that because they're black or because most robberies in his area are committed by blacks?

Come to think of it, I get funny any time I see people in "urban apparel", and it seems popular with a whole range of skin pigmentations in Toronto. Except I'm basically thinking "loser." It's not really the same as in the states, where "ghetto" seems to mean "the place where black people live" instead of "poor area".

Chris Rock may have had a point when he said that despite the number of white dentists living in his neighbourhood, in order for a black dentist to live there, he would have to invent teeth.

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EXC wrote:I don't think it's

EXC wrote:

I don't think it's racism is first anymore. The Republican party has a black chairman, we don't conservatives quitting the party over this. Rush Limbaugh goes out of his way to put on black conservatives, we don't see conservatives boycotting him over this. The racism that there is comes after they don't like your politics. So maybe that's progress that politics now trumps race.

But it is ridiculous the accusations of racism by people on the left. Just a sign that they can't win their arguments with logic.

It's amazing, Hamby, isn't it, how wrong you were?

EXC, don't those signs look suspiciously racist?  Were you even going to make an argument at all?  Or was your only point to let us know that pointing out the racism there is a sign that the 'left' can't win arguments with logic?  Where's yours?

Call a spade a spade.  There is racism directed at Obama.  You're not really going to deny it, are you and merely call pointing it out 'ridiculous' and a 'sign that they [the left] can't win their arguments' are you?

I'm not sure anyone is even trying to say that there aren't genuine concerns with Obama's health care reforms by pointing out the racism.  Is it politically motivated to draw attention from that?  Perhaps.  The racism has, after all, always been there.  Has the Conservative party ever tried to draw attention from something by a similar tactic?  Yes.  That's politics.  What exactly is your point or are you just making inane remarks for fun?

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 Thomathy, I forgot the

 Thomathy, I forgot the number one rule of being EXC.  The only facts that ever apply benefit the conservative agenda.

 

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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

 Thomathy, I forgot the number one rule of being EXC.  The only facts that ever apply benefit the conservative agenda.

Conservative agenda my ass. At this point, we're talking about a group of people who couldn't plan their way out of a wet paper bag. At least with "liberal agenda" or even "gay agenda" the phrase is conceivably plausible. "Conservative agenda" is like "baby war" or "tuna philosophy". Pointing the always blathering Ann Coulter at something hardly constitutes an agenda.

Anyway, I thought EXC wasn't a conservative, he's like mish-mash of stuff. Aren't you, EXC? You said something like that before.

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HisWillness wrote:"gay

HisWillness wrote:
"gay agenda" the phrase is conceivably plausible.
Not only conceivably plausible, but real.  I won't ever deny the existence of my agenda.


 

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


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Thomathy wrote:EXC, don't

Thomathy wrote:


EXC, don't those signs look suspiciously racist? 

I never said they weren't racist. The problem you have in saying their agenda is racist is that they don't attack black conservatives. Same as leftist that call anyone that opposes government run health care "racist". In fact the left attacks black conservatives as "not really being black".

I just want you to understand the real motive behind it all. People that can't formulate a logical argument play the race card on both the left and right.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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:o

EXC wrote:

I don't think it's racism is first anymore. The Republican party has a black chairman, we don't conservatives quitting the party over this.

 

Actually, yes there is. A huge number of the conservatives have jumped ship to be "independents". The people registered Republican is incredibly small right now.

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HisWillness wrote:Anyway, I

HisWillness wrote:

Anyway, I thought EXC wasn't a conservative, he's like mish-mash of stuff. Aren't you, EXC? You said something like that before.

I pretty much only believe things with evidence. I don't believe in fairy tales like extreme wealth redistribution can be economically sustained. So to people that believe whatever political propaganga, it seems like mish-mash.

But you believe a mish-mash as well. On the one hand you believe the leftist propaganda that private insurance companies make massive amounts of easy money selling policies and then denying coverage. Yet you don't come to America and become a multi-billionaire by selling insurance. Why? You have cognitive dissonance, when it comes down to it, you don't really believe this leftist propaganda.

But it's like your religion so you must go along with it. I'll believe that you actually believe when I see you starting a health insurance company. Why is it up to government to solve the health insurance problem, why can't you do it and get rich in the process?

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EXC wrote:HisWillness

EXC wrote:

HisWillness wrote:

Anyway, I thought EXC wasn't a conservative, he's like mish-mash of stuff. Aren't you, EXC? You said something like that before.

I pretty much only believe things with evidence. I don't believe in fairy tales like extreme wealth redistribution can be economically sustained. So to people that believe whatever political propaganga, it seems like mish-mash.

But you believe a mish-mash as well. On the one hand you believe the leftist propaganda that private insurance companies make massive amounts of easy money selling policies and then denying coverage. Yet you don't come to America and become a multi-billionaire by selling insurance. Why? You have cognitive dissonance, when it comes down to it, you don't really believe this leftist propaganda.

But it's like your religion so you must go along with it. I'll believe that you actually believe when I see you starting a health insurance company. Why is it up to government to solve the health insurance problem, why can't you do it and get rich in the process?

 

EXC, hasn't this been explained to you before? At least several times...I take it you don't understand business, or investing that well.

 

The startup costs are insanely high for this kind of business. It is comparable to starting up an automotive company. You won't be able to find people to invest in it, because it is too expensive and too risky, especially when you would be at the whims of already existing companies that dominate 80% or more of their markets. It just isn't something plausible, short of government intervention to break up the stranglehold the insurance companies have within their states.

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EXC wrote:Thomathy

EXC wrote:

Thomathy wrote:


EXC, don't those signs look suspiciously racist? 

I never said they weren't racist. The problem you have in saying their agenda is racist is that they don't attack black conservatives. Same as leftist that call anyone that opposes government run health care "racist". In fact the left attacks black conservatives as "not really being black".

I just want you to understand the real motive behind it all. People that can't formulate a logical argument play the race card on both the left and right.

An interesting take.  Even though I never said anything about an agenda.  I don't deny the 'race card' being played by both the left and the right.  Wait, are you even going to acknowledge what I actually wrote or is this your modus operandi; you know, to just respond to what others write with a something irrelevant to what they wrote?

For shits and giggles,

Thomathy wrote:
Call a spade a spade.  There is racism directed at Obama.  You're not really going to deny it, are you and merely call pointing it out 'ridiculous' and a 'sign that they [the left] can't win their arguments' are you?

Just to be clear, there is racism directed at Obama, right?  And that's not cool, right?

 

BigUniverse wrote,

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EXC wrote:HisWillness

EXC wrote:

HisWillness wrote:

Anyway, I thought EXC wasn't a conservative, he's like mish-mash of stuff. Aren't you, EXC? You said something like that before.

I pretty much only believe things with evidence. I don't believe in fairy tales like extreme wealth redistribution can be economically sustained. So to people that believe whatever political propaganga, it seems like mish-mash.

But you believe a mish-mash as well. On the one hand you believe the leftist propaganda that private insurance companies make massive amounts of easy money selling policies and then denying coverage. Yet you don't come to America and become a multi-billionaire by selling insurance. Why? You have cognitive dissonance, when it comes down to it, you don't really believe this leftist propaganda.

But it's like your religion so you must go along with it. I'll believe that you actually believe when I see you starting a health insurance company. Why is it up to government to solve the health insurance problem, why can't you do it and get rich in the process?

Can't you ban someone just for being an asshole, Hamby?  (I bet you've been tempted. Eye-wink)


 

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


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 Quote:Can't you ban

 

Quote:
Can't you ban someone just for being an asshole, Hamby?  (I bet you've been tempted. Eye-wink)

I actually love having EXC around.  Everytime someone accuses us of atheist-elitism -- that is, asserting that atheists are naturally more rational or better thinkers than theists -- I point smugly at EXC and say QED.

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

 

Quote:
Can't you ban someone just for being an asshole, Hamby?  (I bet you've been tempted. Eye-wink)

I actually love having EXC around.  Everytime someone accuses us of atheist-elitism -- that is, asserting that atheists are naturally more rational or better thinkers than theists -- I point smugly at EXC and say QED.

 

 

Hmm ... I'll take that as my morphine.


 

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


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Hamby!!!!

Hambydammit wrote:

 

Quote:
Can't you ban someone just for being an asshole, Hamby?  (I bet you've been tempted. Eye-wink)

I actually love having EXC around.  Everytime someone accuses us of atheist-elitism -- that is, asserting that atheists are naturally more rational or better thinkers than theists -- I point smugly at EXC and say QED.

 

 

 

 

       Are you trying to tell me that atheists   are NOT  elitists???  Now I have to go and cry--sob and hide in my mothers arm pit.   Boy talk about killin'dreams,  eh?

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Hamby!!!!

Hambydammit wrote:

 

Quote:
Can't you ban someone just for being an asshole, Hamby?  (I bet you've been tempted. Eye-wink)

I actually love having EXC around.  Everytime someone accuses us of atheist-elitism -- that is, asserting that atheists are naturally more rational or better thinkers than theists -- I point smugly at EXC and say QED.

 

 

 

 

       Are you trying to tell me that atheists   are NOT  elitists???  Now I have to go and cry--sob and hide in my mothers arm pit.   Boy talk about killin'dreams,  eh?

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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Here's the comment I left on

Here's the comment I left on the blog

 

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Whilst true that some critics of Obama are racists, blog posts like these are stupid and redundent.

The GOP chairman is right, not all critizism of Obama is racist just because there are some racist critics out there.

I mean wouldn't critisizing the GOP be racists since it's chaired by a black person?

 

 

 

 


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Conservatism has been

Conservatism has been steadily degenerating in the US public sphere. Today they look more like a mad dog with glen beck's loud and obnoxious head sticking out of it's ass, than an actual political movement. They seriously need help filling the ranks with real conservatives, rather than extreme right populists.

Europe is really not much different at the moment. Conservative values have evidently evaporated from the public discourse and practice and have been replaced by hateful one-liners. It's as if no position is worth taking, if it doesn't harm someone.

Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:I mean

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
I mean wouldn't critisizing the GOP be racists since it's chaired by a black person?

How can you conflate criticism of a party chaired by a black person with (obvious) racism directed at Obama?  Why would genuine criticism of the GOP be racist?  No one is claiming that genuine criticism of Obama is racist.  It's not.  There is racist sentiment out there, however, directed at Obama.  Perhaps it's redundant (?) to make note of it ...

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


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Thomathy wrote:No one is

Thomathy wrote:

No one is claiming that genuine criticism of Obama is racist. 

There is where you are wrong. I have heard geniune criticisms of Obama denounced as racism. I have actually heard it happen. Announcing that your opponent in some political matter is a racist is a great way of shutting down all meaningful political discussion. Now all discussion is on whether they are racist or not; rather than on Obama's failings or successes.

There are racists out there and there are people who paint all critics of Obama as racists as a rhetorical tactic to try and silence them. Both are bad.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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But Obama is a black president

 

And the fact America voted in a black president amazed me. The chances this would happen where I am are zero.

Well done USA.

But I agree with Hamby. Taking political dissatisfaction directly to racial slur is racist pure and simple.

P'raps the thing I liked most about Obama is that when he re-did his presidency swear-in he lost the bible.

Nice one.

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Thomathy wrote:Cpt_pineapple

Thomathy wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
I mean wouldn't critisizing the GOP be racists since it's chaired by a black person?

How can you conflate criticism of a party chaired by a black person with (obvious) racism directed at Obama?  Why would genuine criticism of the GOP be racist?  No one is claiming that genuine criticism of Obama is racist.  It's not.  There is racist sentiment out there, however, directed at Obama.  Perhaps it's redundant (?) to make note of it ...

 

 

On the link the blog author posted a quote from the GOP chairman

 

Michael Steele wrote:

"Voicing opposition to the president’s policy proposals is not being a racist. It is being an American.... As an African American, I know what racism is and that is not racism."

 

He then posted those pictures implying that Steele was defending actions like that.

 

I in no way see the GOP chair defending actions like that. From what I see from the quote of the chairman, he's saying that objecting to Obama's health care plan or social security, or foreign policies isn't racists.


I don't care if you are a Democrat or Republician or independent, the chairman is right [in the context above].

 

 

 

 


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Hambydammit wrote: I

Hambydammit wrote:

 I actually love having EXC around.  Everytime someone accuses us of atheist-elitism -- that is, asserting that atheists are naturally more rational or better thinkers than theists -- I point smugly at EXC and say QED.

 

Well, it's easy to show how irrational you are Hamby. When I ask questions or make a counter argument about your positions, you respond with anger and refusal to explain your position. It's just supposed to be obvious what an idiot I am and then you make up strawman attacks about me not being compassionate when I try to choose the lesser of two evils.

To me it's an interesting study to see how similar the leftist propaganda has deluded the thought processes of the so called "rational responders". So go ahead and continue the name calling and the insults, this is because you don't have a rational basis for your beliefs, you're just the product of leftist political indoctrination. I'm attacking your beliefs which make you feel comfortable, so you must respond with anger, that's all you have.

You become just as irrational in your anti-racism as any racist. You've become the mirror image of what you hate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7MQrL_ABE0&feature=fvsr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7QQ5pO7_A

 

Your lame excuses as to why you don't start an insurance company or non-profit co-op to provide health coverage is equivalent to what I experienced with Christian believers. The Christians tell me that prayer works, that prayer heals people from disease. So, I tell them "then let's go to the cancer hospital and pray and do a double blind study on it's effectiveness". I get the excuse that God can't be tested, prayer can't be used for profit, we can't do experiment, I just have to believe they are right without evidence.

The massive big government solutions you've been indoctrinated with are the same. They can't be done on a small scale and experimentally verified. You must ignore all unintended consequences. The greedy insurance companies can make massive profits but you can't get together with other leftists and start a non-profit provider that has the rules you want. The massive cost advantage you claim to believe in just somehow wouldn't make it easy to start one. Just lame excuses, but no-one is stopping you. Insisting we must not have freedom but force.

Everything must be forced on people by gun carrying government agents. This hardly sounds like a philosophy of rational cooperation between citizens for the common good. But then again, you're phony about being peace-loving just like you're phony about your compassion(with other people's money of course). You could never start a charity or co-op to take care of people in need, everything must be done by men and with guns. You can believe your delusion that your politics is peaceful and compassionate, I'm not.

WHY MUST EVERYTHING BE DONE WITH DEADLY FORCE IF IT IS SO RATIONAL????????

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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:3

EXC isn't worth talking to I think.

 

He asks the same questions, again and again...even after you answer them 4, 5 times he still repeats like a parrot. If not in one thread, in another. And another.

 

It is like trying to teach someone that has a learning disability. Which he may very well have, but that does not excuse him..many people I have met with a learning disability try to understand at least, where he just blatently ignores whatever is in front of him so he can say the same thing again.

 

 

It is an interesting study on people buying into the propaganda and fear tactics from some extremists though. I wonder if he is scared of RFID chips being implanted into him to mark him for FEMA death camps.

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Hambydammit wrote:I actually

Hambydammit wrote:
I actually love having EXC around. Everytime someone accuses us of atheist-elitism -- that is, asserting that atheists are naturally more rational or better thinkers than theists -- I point smugly at EXC and say QED.

I would add that he's a perfect example of the RRS NOT censoring opposing viewpoints. He follows the rules as well as most posters and makes effort with each of his posts, regardless of the veracity of his claims. There are a few trolls that love to claim that the RRS censors opposing viewpoints, he is the proof that it's BS, and that they don't have even EXC's skills and capabilities.

He's also a good sounding board to figure out what the right wing agenda thinks about any particular issue. He calls himself a rationalist, but he responds exactly the way O'Brian and Rush would. It's obvious where he stands.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:He calls

Vastet wrote:
He calls himself a rationalist, but he responds exactly the way O'Brian and Rush would. It's obvious where he stands.

Not really. I don't believe in right wing concepts like the right to breed, right to own land, water rights, mining rights, fishing rights, right to drive a polluting car, etc... These are usually some kind of God ordained rights to have some natural resource that cuts out others people ability to use these resources. For this, I am called a communist and a left wing radical.

I don't believe in rights of any kind. This concept of absolute rights is just as much BS as absolute morality. Where can rights possible come from if there is no god? The best we can do is have social contracts, where each party agrees gives and each receives.

The way I see things, there is an equal an opposite reaction or a yin-yang in the realm of politics, race, economics, etc... The assertion of welfare rights is a reaction to the assertions of natural resource rights. We have this Obama love fest as a reaction to racism of the past, then we have the old racism as a reation to the love fest and promise of welfare rights.

Leftists seem to have 'sins' just like religious conservatives have sins. People seem to think people can be shamed into not being a racist when it is a natural phenomena, it has been advantageous throughout evolutionary history to be racist, greedy, sexist, xenophobic and belligerent. So I don't think it going to help to treat these things as 'sins'. Eliminate the root causes.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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I cant argue the images

I cant argue the images posted here.

I can ask that how much of this is a majority considering that A MAJORITY voted Obama into office?

One thing that irked me on a local message board was a black OP contributor was his attack on SNL for making fun of Obama.

 

Lets consider South Park first before looking at Saturday Night Live.The thing about South Park that people miss is that it is not pro division, or pro anything, but "lets laugh at each other".  If the creators of South Park hated atheists, why would they show up to a TAM meeting after depicting us in the cartoon literally shitting out of our mouths?

Even before they got to us atheists, from the very first season Cartman was calling Jews every name in the book. The intent was not to say, "Kill jews", but to make a character out of the dipshits who are real bigots.

SNL could hardly be called the bastion of the right wing, much less a show with a KKK card.

So when this local journalist objected to Obama being poked fun at, I TOOK ISSUE!

SNL since the 70s has poked fun of EVERY president. Even without talking politics it had Edie Murphy as a black version of Mr Rogers and Stevie Wonder (A BLIND MAN) in a fake add selling a camera?

Does bigotry exist? YES! Is the right wing selling fear? YES!

But we do not need, as atheist, or humans of any label, to assume that all who think we are going to burn in hell, or express such opinions would do what Hitler did or what Bin Laden did.

Censorship is the road to fascism, no matter who wants to use it as a tactic, including us atheists.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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"I don't believe in rights

"I don't believe in rights of any kind. This concept of absolute rights is just as much BS as absolute morality. Where can rights possible come from if there is no god? The best we can do is have social contracts, where each party agrees gives and each receives."

Ah. Well, I've never considered fiction to have any bearing on reality. When I speak of Rights, I refer to the "Social Contracts" you refer to. I don't recognise religion or it's self sustained illusion of authority on anything. When I say something is or should be a right, I speak only of our species and how we can treat each other better, for the betterment of all of us.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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I think this election

I think this election SHOULDN'T surprise anyone. The reason it does surprise us is not because of the founders, but because of the the public.

The reason this election finally happened was because some wise people put an anti-trust law THE FIRST AMENDMENT in. They also played politics at the time knowing that sudden change in any direction would be a disaster.

Many, not all were abolitionists. Jefferson in particular would have, if it had been socially acceptable at the time, WOULD have endorsed a qualified black man or woman for public office.

The founders took into account in writing the Constitution that change is shocking when sudden. They also took into account that of competition. It is not up to the majority  to blindly be given rights to the minority, or vice versa, it is up to everyone  to speak up and participate. I am not talking about race or religion, but any given group at the time that felt to be the underdog, or one who feels their rights have been intruded on.

The Constitution does not favor the majority or minority, but it cannot listen to a citizen who doesn't speak.

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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ClockCat wrote:EXC isn't

ClockCat wrote:

EXC isn't worth talking to I think.

 I like having EXC on the forum.  Sometime it seems that forums are just a gathering of sycophants, yes men, or people who just go along with group-think.   I like that he challenges some of the more opinionated among us ( yes, I also have opinions ).  I don't agree with a large portion of what he embraces but it is nice to see that not every atheist is cut from the same old left wing / progressive / liberal cloth. 

   For those who claim to embrace tolerance, well...put up or shut up. 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )


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Vastet wrote:"When I speak

Vastet wrote:
"When I speak of Rights, I refer to the "Social Contracts" you refer to.

A contract is when parties agree to trade something of similar value for the net benefit of each party. So how is income tax and welfare entitlements any kind of contract? Income tax is just take money from people even if they have not taken anything of similar value. If I work 3 month or 12 month a year, I pay way different tax but get the identical benefits. Same with entitlements, there is no requirment to give anything in return.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

EXC isn't worth talking to I think.

 I like having EXC on the forum.  Sometime it seems that forums are just a gathering of sycophants, yes men, or people who just go along with group-think.   I like that he challenges some of the more opinionated among us ( yes, I also have opinions ).  I don't agree with a large portion of what he embraces but it is nice to see that not every atheist is cut from the same old left wing / progressive / liberal cloth. 

   For those who claim to embrace tolerance, well...put up or shut up. 

 

 

Are you suggesting that saying someone may not be worth talking to is in some way intolerant? Sticking out tongue

 

I never said he should be banned, or that he shouldn't be free to express his opinion. I just find it a little bit...trollish when someone asks the same questions time after time, no matter how many answers they are given, and instead of talking about the answers presented goes back to the same questions in another thread.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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ClockCat wrote: Are you

ClockCat wrote:

 

 Are you suggesting that saying someone may not be worth talking to is in some way intolerant? Sticking out tongue

 

I never said he should be banned, or that he shouldn't be free to express his opinion. I just find it a little bit...trollish when someone asks the same questions time after time, no matter how many answers they are given, and instead of talking about the answers presented goes back to the same questions in another thread.

    Sorry CC I wasn't trying to be holier than thou.  I just used your previous post as a jumping off point to make my little speech.  I know EXC is tenacious and he goes against the flow of the majority ( as I perceive it ) but I welcome him as an example to simple-minded Christians to indicate that there is no such thing as an atheist worldview.  Our views as atheists are as diverse as they could possibly be. 

   He is certainly a member who exists as a counter-point to many of the prevailing opinions here and he likes to mix it up.  It's all good.

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )


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"A contract is when parties

"A contract is when parties agree to trade something of similar value for the net benefit of each party. So how is income tax and welfare entitlements any kind of contract? Income tax is just take money from people even if they have not taken anything of similar value. If I work 3 month or 12 month a year, I pay way different tax but get the identical benefits. Same with entitlements, there is no requirment to give anything in return."

Quite wrong. Those who pay higher taxes get many benefits that the poor (who pay little or no taxes) do not. They have greater access to police, their roads are in better shape, they have more sway with officials, they are closer to fire and health response, they are even kept seperate from the poor by barriers; both subtle and obvious.
By living in a nation which collects taxes, you get access to that which the taxes paid for. By paying more taxes, you get more benefits. It's simple math.
It may also shock you to learn that many of the people on welfare are former and future

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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taxpayers who literally paid

taxpayers who literally paid for the safety net that caught them. And because they haven't been forced onto the street by a layoff or injury or any number of things that can force one to seek social assistance, they have a good chance at returning to their previous wages once the crisis has abated. Employers don't hire bums, no matter what the right wing agenda would have you believe.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.