Should Insurance Companines Be Chargned for Patient Deaths

Stosis
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Should Insurance Companines Be Chargned for Patient Deaths

A thought just occurred to be. If, in American, someone with insurance is denied coverage because a procedure is deemed unnecessary by their insurer and they die or their condition worsens, then why are the insurance companies not only sued but fined into bankruptcy. As I see denying, an otherwise qualified, customer life saving or anti-debilitating treatment should be the same as killing or injuring them yourself. If a company wants to say that a procedure is "cosmetic" or whatever lame excuse they come up with then they should have to put themselves on the line and defend their actions in a court of law.

 

The reason I say that the company should be charged is because I don't want the low level clerks who made the decision according to company policy to be charged and as we all know that is how things work in America.

 

Also, why does do you fail so much, America.

 

PS: everyday

PPS: If companies are already fined for such conduct then why haven't the fines been increased substantially?


darth_josh
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In the present system, if

In the present system, if such an instance occurs then the insurance companies increase the premiums to all of their policy holders. THAT is the way of things.

When people without health insurance MUST see a doctor and then do not pay the bill, the doctors raise the prices for all of their other patients.

When shareholders of healthcare companies demand greater profits AND the healthcare facilities have raised their charges AND the expense gets added to insurance premiums, you have the situation we have now. Health insurance premiums have not doubled in 10 years THEY HAVE QUADRUPLED. And typical coverage was 90%-10% no co-pay. Now, it is 80%-20% with co-pays. Meanwhile, wages in the same sector have barely increased 50%.

Even with the proposed public option or single payer plan, the same problem occurs over time.

One wonders how the proletariat would do things if put in power. Hmmm.

 

 

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darth_josh wrote:In the

darth_josh wrote:

In the present system, if such an instance occurs then the insurance companies increase the premiums to all of their policy holders. THAT is the way of things.

When people without health insurance MUST see a doctor and then do not pay the bill, the doctors raise the prices for all of their other patients.

When shareholders of healthcare companies demand greater profits AND the healthcare facilities have raised their charges AND the expense gets added to insurance premiums, you have the situation we have now. Health insurance premiums have not doubled in 10 years THEY HAVE QUADRUPLED. And typical coverage was 90%-10% no co-pay. Now, it is 80%-20% with co-pays. Meanwhile, wages in the same sector have barely increased 50%.

Even with the proposed public option or single payer plan, the same problem occurs over time.

One wonders how the proletariat would do things if put in power. Hmmm.

Why do you have the idea that healthcare is anything but a mitigation of a calamity and as such is supposed to incur a cost on the society? It costs a certain amount of resources to keep a certain health standard and we get happier, healthier and more dependable work force for our spent resources. You can go to any modern western country in the world, except the US, to see how this model works.

If you put another 30% of cost for profit, marketing & lobbying on top of the original cost, add to that a clear interest to deny coverage, what do you think the resulting benefit to the society is? I am not an expert, so I would say an outstretched middle finger. An expert would say -45.000 American lives per year: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/18/deaths.health.insurance/index.html

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darth_josh wrote:One wonders

darth_josh wrote:

One wonders how the proletariat would do things if put in power. Hmmm.

expropriate the shit out of the private insurers' purses.  put that money back into the now-wholly nationalized healthcare system.

of course there would be a whole buttload of logistics issues, and a lot of private jets would have to be firmly grounded and a lot of private accounts firmly frozen, but that's the basic idea.

thanks, darth.  you made me hum the internationale for the first time in weeks.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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aiia
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iwbiek wrote:darth_josh

iwbiek wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

One wonders how the proletariat would do things if put in power. Hmmm.

expropriate the shit out of the private insurers' purses.  put that money back into the now-wholly nationalized healthcare system.

If this happens who then in their right mind would be an insurer?  Soon there would be none and the government will BE the 'insurer'.

 

 

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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darth_josh wrote:One wonders

darth_josh wrote:

One wonders how the proletariat would do things if put in power. Hmmm. 

I can visualize an increase in the current trend. It has been established the smoking contributes to lung cancer and heart trouble which cost billions of dollars. Solution? The government bans smoking. The slipery slope has been rooted.

What will the future be like?:

Millions of skateboarders end up in the emergency room costing billions. Solution? Ban skate boarding.

10's of thousands of skiers need to be hospitalised for broken legs costing billions. Solution? Ban sking.

Being over weight causes a multitude of health problems costing billions. Solution. Ban candy bars. Another solution? Fine anyone who is 10lbs or more over weight and double the fine every 10lbs and institutionalize anyone who is 400lbs or more.

Exposure to too much sun contribute to skin cancer. Solution? Ban sun bathing.

It has been proven that lack of exercise contributes to ill health. Solution? Everyone will need to take a physical endurance test. If you do not pass you will be given something like a parking ticket.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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Stosis wrote:As I see

Stosis wrote:
As I see denying, an otherwise qualified, customer life saving or anti-debilitating treatment should be the same as killing or injuring them yourself. If a company wants to say that a procedure is "cosmetic" or whatever lame excuse they come up with then they should have to put themselves on the line and defend their actions in a court of law.

 

Well, you seem to be making a false distinction here. If someone is considering cosmetic surgery, then they ought not to be looking for an insurance company to foot the bill in the first place. Hopefully if someone asked for bigger titties at the expense of others they would be laughed out of the office.

 

If America is full of fail on this one it is because people have figured out how to sue an insurance company because they have been denied bigger titties in the first place.

 

In any case, that is of no actual relevance to anyone being denied important treatment that could save their life. Rather more likely is that they have exceeded a lifetime coverage limit or the treatment at hand is unlikely to improve whatever condition they have.

 

If a case like that comes to court, well the insurance provider would have a defensible position to work from. Please note that I am not saying that the insurance company should automatically win, rather, that the case is simply going to be complicated enough that it is not trivially reducible to they should automatically lose. In the mean time, insurance companies will have yet another expense to deal with, namely the cost of the extra law suits that you are proposing and everyone's cost go up yet again.

 

iwbiek wrote:
and a lot of private jets would have to be firmly grounded and a lot of private accounts firmly frozen, but that's the basic idea.

 

Yah, the old soak the rich move. One reason that this would never work is simply because after the first time it happens, all of the remaining insurance companies are simply going to cash out of the business before it is their turn to get soaked. Really, we get one pass at this, wreck the system and what is the new system that can seamlessly replace the old system without loss of coverage for anyone?

 

Don't tell me that a government backed system can ever hope to do that. Sure, given time such a system could be implemented but the rub is that there simply is no such system ready to fill the gap right now.

 

The basic fact is that whatever is broken in our current system can be fixed. Just not instantly. In five years? Probably. Today? No.

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Jeffrick
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Old saying.

 

 

         Here in Ontario Canada we have a government run scheme called OHIP (Ontario Health Insurence Program) anyone with a job has it, those without a job may or may not be covered.  At the moment I have NO job but my wife does so I am covered. I am covered by privete health insurence aside from OHIP, meny in Ontario are.  OHIP garuntees the basics of health care,  but nothing SPECIAL if you need long term care ( Cancer, HIV, disabilities, mental illness) you will end up in a long line of 'red tape' and "wait your turn",  but you will get served.

 

           My privete insurence supplemental to OHIP means that I will have less 'red tape' and shorter "waits" in line.  I have been 'lucky'  with my health,  I know meny who can not say that.  I have no major health problem, ever; and I still have my teeth (at age 54) my parents (from New Brunswick)  had full dentures in their early 30's. All  my dental coverage is from privete schemes.

 

 

            The point I  am trying to make here is that a government run scheme,   with privete suppliments is the best way to go.  A government Insurence ONLY, runs into that old saying.    If government insurence has to compete with privete insurence then you get better results,  the government runs head long into the free market scheme of things;   they have to compete  NOT dictate!!

 

 

          The 'Old saying' btw is "Those who can DO,  those who can't TEACH,  and those who are completly incompitent, become CIVIL SERVANTS".   or to quote Mark Twain  "They aint civil and they aint no service."

 

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Questions...

Please answer a few questions I have:

1. Why do people buy insurance that doesn't provide the coverage they want in the first place? Was this because their employer didn't select a good company? Was it a lack of critical thinking skills because of a failed education system?

2. If all the private insurance companies are so bad and make massive profits, why don't the leftists/socialists/communists get together and start a non-profit co-op that provides the exact coverage they want? Who is stopping them in the "land of the free"? Why can't the proletariat start their own insurance company run by the proletariat for the proletariat?

3. If ordinary people(i.e. the proletariat) are too incompetent to select an insurance carrier that provides the coverage they want, how are they then competent to vote and select politicians and/or communist party leaders?

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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aiia wrote: If this happens

aiia wrote:

 

If this happens who then in their right mind would be an insurer?  Soon there would be none and the government will BE the 'insurer'.

 

 

preeeeetty  much. 

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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aiia
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iwbiek wrote:aiia wrote: If

iwbiek wrote:

aiia wrote:

 

If this happens who then in their right mind would be an insurer?  Soon there would be none and the government will BE the 'insurer'.

 

 

preeeeetty  much. 

 

Is this good?

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


iwbiek
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aiia wrote:iwbiek wrote:aiia

aiia wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

aiia wrote:

 

If this happens who then in their right mind would be an insurer?  Soon there would be none and the government will BE the 'insurer'.

 

 

preeeeetty  much. 

 

Is this good?

well, hop on over to the "teabaggers" forum for the comments of those who currently live under various forms of nationalized healthcare (including myself).

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


aiia
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iwbiek wrote:aiia

iwbiek wrote:

aiia wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

aiia wrote:

 If this happens who then in their right mind would be an insurer?  Soon there would be none and the government will BE the 'insurer'. 

preeeeetty  much. 

 Is this good?

well, hop on over to the "teabaggers" forum for the comments of those who currently live under various forms of nationalized healthcare (including myself).

The answer to my question is not there

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


iwbiek
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aiia wrote:iwbiek wrote:aiia

aiia wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

aiia wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

aiia wrote:

 If this happens who then in their right mind would be an insurer?  Soon there would be none and the government will BE the 'insurer'. 

preeeeetty  much. 

 Is this good?

well, hop on over to the "teabaggers" forum for the comments of those who currently live under various forms of nationalized healthcare (including myself).

The answer to my question is not there

then look for it elsewhere, sariputra.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


aiia
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iwbiek wrote:aiia

iwbiek wrote:

aiia wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

aiia wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

aiia wrote:

 If this happens who then in their right mind would be an insurer?  Soon there would be none and the government will BE the 'insurer'. 

preeeeetty  much. 

 Is this good?

well, hop on over to the "teabaggers" forum for the comments of those who currently live under various forms of nationalized healthcare (including myself).

The answer to my question is not there

then look for it elsewhere, sariputra.

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Jeffrick wrote:Here in

Jeffrick wrote:

Here in Ontario Canada we have a government run scheme called OHIP (Ontario Health Insurence Program) anyone with a job has it, those without a job may or may not be covered.  At the moment I have NO job but my wife does so I am covered.

You are mistaken. Residence is the only pre-requisite for healthcare in every Province and Territory of Canada. If you have a 3 month+ address in Ontario, then you qualify for OHIP automatically. And if you don't, it is merely an inconvenience to deal with after the fact, as you may have to fight the Provincial gov't of your Province of residence to get them to pay for it. However, you automatically win any such fight via Federal law. The only reason Provinces even try is that many people are easily conned and ignorant of Federal law, and some costs vary between Provinces, with the home Province not being required to recognise excess cost in the visited Province.

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