This is what happens when you think Christian Music is cool

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This is what happens when you think Christian Music is cool

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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All Christian music or just

All Christian music or just the crud that masquerades as metal?

I will grant you that Christianity does try to create a soldier mentality which gives a lot of them war boners.

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This is like the 80's power

This is like the 80's power rock music.

Did you ever notice how Christian music lags behind mainstream music by about 5-15 years?

What happens is there is a new music trend, at first it is devil music because it is more popular than religion with teenagers and it is enouraging them to take drug and have sex(hormones apparently have little to do with it). This stance is popular with the parents of teens. Then it's  if you can't beat 'em join 'em. And so hard rock, acid rock, rap, grunge, metal, etc... all become acceptable forms of Christian music after it they are already widely popular.

 

Hell they've got Christian Reggaeton and Christian gangster rap now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRne8by7nOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8icjwtToyg

I wonder when they grab their crotch is that considered masterbation and a sin?

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i'm assuming by "christian

i'm assuming by "christian music" we're talking about what's typically referred to as "contemporary christian" and all its pop/metal/hip-hop offspring as well as the absolutely revolting "praise and worship" genre, which consists of taking a few bible verses, writing an inane chorus, and setting it to frat boy-level acoustic guitar strumming and often the ubiquitous djembe.  then thousands of tards raise their hands adoringly.  (shudder)  the funny thing is, even way back in my days as a campus christian i always felt like i must be taking crazy pills or something.  why can't anyone else see this is utter shit?

HOWEVER, i hope you're not including gospel music and all its predecessors, such as spirituals, sacred harp singing, quartets, the old baptist method of "lining out a hymn," etc., etc., because almost all of modern popular music traces its origins to this music.  i don't care how militantly atheistic a person is, anybody who would say that rosetta tharpe, mahalia jackson, the staples singers, the blackwood brothers, the oak ridge gospel quartet, the blind boys of alabama, shirley caesar, dottie peoples, sounds of blackness, or rance allen suck in any musical sense is just a moron.

oh, and by all means, let's not forget the woefully underestimated influence of traditional ashkenazic jewish cantors, as well as klezmer. 

"I asked my father,
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with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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Nah... I'm just talking

Nah... I'm just talking about "Contemporary Christian."  Gospel is excellent Smiling

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And this is what happens

And this is what happens when Christians make cool music:

 

 

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They're Christians?  It

They're Christians?  It doesn't say so on their Wiki page.

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Metallica has at least one

Metallica has at least one christian in it, and they made awesome tunes too.

15 years ago. Sad

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Hambydammit wrote:

Hambydammit wrote:

They're Christians?  It doesn't say so on their Wiki page.

 

Yah, you really ought to remember that wiki is only useful as a starting page and not as an actual authority. In this case however, the bass player happens to be His Excellency the Reverend Sir Joey DeMaio, Grand Cross Knights of Malta, Medal of Merit of the Order, Minister of Youth for the Sovereign Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, Knights of Malta, Federation of the Autonomous Priories.

 

Ever since the time of Napoleon, the role has been all pomp and ceremony but on technical grounds, he is one of the highest ranking officers of the Roman Catholic Navy.

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 Well ok, but that doesn't

 Well ok, but that doesn't make it Christian music.  I looked at several videos, and couldn't find any Jesus is Lord stuff.  

Seems like it's mostly fantasy mythical stuff.

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Oh Hamby!   I was not

Oh Hamby!

 

I was not even trying to lay a trap here but you found one anyway. Having found it you put you foot in and wiggled until it went off. Please reread my earlier post. I never claimed that it was “good christian music”.

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Answers in Gene Simmons

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And this is what happens when Christians make cool music:

What better way to tell people you're impotent than "We are fighting with power and steel".

These guys are musicians. What they're actually fighting with is their drummer, who forgot his wallet in New Mexico somewhere, and the sound guy, who isn't giving the singer enough mids stage left.

 

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:3

My hero. Oh wait, this is about religious music. TOO BAD.


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Quote:Oh Hamby!   I was not

Quote:

Oh Hamby!

 

I was not even trying to lay a trap here but you found one anyway. Having found it you put you foot in and wiggled until it went off. Please reread my earlier post. I never claimed that it was “good christian music”.

Oh Snap.

Nice one.

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I think James LaBrie is some

I think James LaBrie is some kind of semi-religious something.  There's that song about the spirit carrying on, and for some reason, I think he wrote the lyrics.  I dunno if Petrucci is religious or not.  I know he's a fucking demon of a guitar player.  I find his playing much easier to listen to than Joe Satriani or Steve Vai.  I know that much.

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ClockCat wrote:My hero. Oh

ClockCat wrote:
My hero. Oh wait, this is about religious music. TOO BAD.

Wow. Someone sure has listened to a lot of Zappa's Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar. That guy managed to even make it less interesting by having a sub-par drummer.

If that guy's your hero, you'll need some Zappa, stat. The most religious thing about that clip is that it's so boring that it makes the baby Jesus cry. At least you didn't punish us all with some Yngve Malmsteen or Al "I Think I'm a Typewriter" DiMeola.

Speaking of crap, I found a way to illustrate why Neil Peart sucks. First, listen to Vinnie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u51BJySRfVI

(Wow, awesome.)

Then Alex Acuna:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdke8gkSeVc

(Holy shit, it's like the man is made of groove.)

And now Niel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2usjj46Ek

(Uh ... when does the music start?)

Feel like something's missing in that last one? Yeah. That would be "talent", "groove", "human feel", and "musicality".

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Hmmm... bashing your own

Hmmm... bashing your own again?

Will, you really do seem to have some serious Canada issues going on.  Anyway, a couple of things to make clear.  First, saying that Petrucci is easier to listen to than Satriani or Vai is a LONG way from saying he's a hero.  Personally, I like any song by Dream Theater.  Any one.  The second one... I'm tired of it.

Second, Vinnie is made of cool.  I saw him play with Sting, and even that sterilized jazz-pop genre couldn't stop the flow of cool.  Vinnie is just... cool. 

I don't really know what to say about Neil.  He's one of those dudes that I want so badly to like that I probably have no way of maintaining objectivity.  I'll admit it.  I like his lyrics.  I think he's found a lot of ways to say really cool things to a lot of angst-ridden teenage boys, and that's good.   Sometimes we adults forget that Rush is music for teenagers.  Yeah, it's melodramatic and over the top, and the lyrics aren't going to pass for great literature, but they hit the mark as far as the target audience goes.

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Hambydammit wrote:Hmmm...

Hambydammit wrote:
Hmmm... bashing your own again?

I thought Neil left Canada. Maybe I'm thinking he should have.

Hambydammit wrote:
Will, you really do seem to have some serious Canada issues going on.  Anyway, a couple of things to make clear.  First, saying that Petrucci is easier to listen to than Satriani or Vai is a LONG way from saying he's a hero.

Well yeah. That's like saying plain toast is a little better than plain oatmeal.

Hambydammit wrote:
Second, Vinnie is made of cool.  I saw him play with Sting, and even that sterilized jazz-pop genre couldn't stop the flow of cool.

It's so true. I'm pretty sure he sleeps through those concerts. Wouldn't you want to be getting paid triple scale to sleep through a concert? The guys in Sting's band are so good that they could probably hold a phone interview through the entire thing without missing a cue.

Hambydammit wrote:
I don't really know what to say about Neil.  He's one of those dudes that I want so badly to like that I probably have no way of maintaining objectivity.  I'll admit it.  I like his lyrics.  I think he's found a lot of ways to say really cool things to a lot of angst-ridden teenage boys, and that's good.

He does the lyrics, does he? I always felt like Rush was a kind of Led Zeppelin minus the fun. And groove. And then sterilized with bleach. And run over by a giant rampaging condenser microphone. Yeah, that pretty much sums up Rush for me.

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I don't understand how

I don't understand how anyone could dislike John Petrucci.

 

 

Anyway. Have some apocalyptica.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because this video makes me laugh inside.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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ClockCat wrote:I don't

ClockCat wrote:

I don't understand how anyone could dislike John Petrucci.

 

I don't dislike him, I just fell asleep a few minutes into his arpeggio demonstration.

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fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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Quote:It's so true. I'm

Quote:
It's so true. I'm pretty sure he sleeps through those concerts. Wouldn't you want to be getting paid triple scale to sleep through a concert? The guys in Sting's band are so good that they could probably hold a phone interview through the entire thing without missing a cue.

That's so true.  Sting has pretty much hired the best available talent for every solo album he's done. 

This dude played on Soul Cages.  (You have to get through the first 55 seconds to get to the coolness.  Wait for it...)

 

 

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t

Hambydammit wrote:
This dude played on Soul Cages.

Well familiar with Manu Katche. He also did that huge groove on Peter Gabriel's "Shaking the Tree", if you remember that one. I didn't even know what the song was about for the first little while, I was so distracted by how awesome the drum sound was.

You can hear in that clip what a fan of Steve Gadd and Tony Williams that guy is. He's like Vinnie without the coke habit.

PS - what's your instrument, Hamby?

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fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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Quote:Well familiar with

Quote:
Well familiar with Manu Katche. He also did that huge groove on Peter Gabriel's "Shaking the Tree", if you remember that one. I didn't even know what the song was about for the first little while, I was so distracted by how awesome the drum sound was.

Oh, I'm very well familiar with it.  There is much love.  (I'm particularly fond of the live video from that tour, where Paula Cole sang Sinead O'Connor's parts.)

Quote:
PS - what's your instrument, Hamby?

Piano, primarily, but I can work a bass pretty damn well, too. 

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:3

What do you call someone that hangs around with musicians?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A drummer. 

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:3

What is the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?

 

 

 

You only have to punch the information into the drum machine once. 

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Now you've gone and done

Now you've gone and done it.  Don't blame me for the consequences.

What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend?  Homeless.

How do you make a drummer's car more aerodynamic?  Take the Papa John's sign off the top.

What did the drummer get on his SAT's?  Drool.

How can you tell if the drum riser is level?  Drool comes out of both sides of the drummer's mouth.

How do you know a drummer's at the door?  The knocking speeds up, and he can't figure out when he's supposed to come in.

This one's for you, Will:  How many drummers does it take to change a light bulb?  At least a dozen.  One screws it in while the rest stand around geeking out about how much better Neil Peart would have done it.

Did you hear the one about the drummer with a college degree?  Me either.

 

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Quote:What is the difference

Quote:
What is the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?

The machine keeps good time and doesn't try to fuck your girlfriend.

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How many drummers does it

How many drummers does it take to change a lightbulb?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

None, they have a machine for that now.

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Hambydammit wrote:Quote:What

Hambydammit wrote:

Quote:
What is the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?

The machine keeps good time and doesn't try to fuck your girlfriend.

Correction: ... and isn't fucking your girlfriend.

Man. Guitar players and singers are always so jealous because they get lots of hugs, but the girls always want to do the drummer. Huh.

Also, you guys are just bitter because there are only maybe a couple dozen really good drummers in the world, and the rest you could replace with a computer program.

But those good drummers ... man, they make the track sound SO GOOD. Damn them!

How many guitar players does it take to cover a Stevie Ray Vaughn tune?

That would be all of them.

How do you get a guitar player to play softer?

Put sheet music in front of him.

How do you get a pianist to play softer?

Take the sheet music away.

What did the sound engineer say to the singer?

"That sucked; come on in."

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fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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Quote:How do you get a

Quote:

How do you get a pianist to play softer?

Take the sheet music away.

I think that's the first pianist joke I've ever heard.  The thing is, in music school, every instrumentalist needs pianists to accompany them on their jury exams, concerts, etc.  The thing is, you just don't want to piss off the pianist.  If he bails the day before your exam, you're fucked, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Nobody jokes about the pianists.  Nobody...

 

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HisWillness

HisWillness wrote:

Hambydammit wrote:

Quote:
What is the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?

The machine keeps good time and doesn't try to fuck your girlfriend.

Correction: ... and isn't fucking your girlfriend.

Man. Guitar players and singers are always so jealous because they get lots of hugs, but the girls always want to do the drummer. Huh.

Also, you guys are just bitter because there are only maybe a couple dozen really good drummers in the world, and the rest you could replace with a computer program.

But those good drummers ... man, they make the track sound SO GOOD. Damn them!

How many guitar players does it take to cover a Stevie Ray Vaughn tune?

That would be all of them.

How do you get a guitar player to play softer?

Put sheet music in front of him.

How do you get a pianist to play softer?

Take the sheet music away.

What did the sound engineer say to the singer?

"That sucked; come on in."

i have to side with will on this one.  it took my band FOREVER to find the right drummer, but now that we've got him, everything sounds soooo fucking good.  he's so in demand he's never been out of work, so it's pretty much a badge of honor that he wants to play with us.  as far as typical popular music (rock, country, etc.) bands go, i can't imagine anything more difficult to find than a good drummer.  when you do find him, he'll usually be a jazz drummer.

oh, and he's almost 60, single, and the amount of tail he gets is just obscene.  i've never seen him with a woman over 45, and they're always beautiful.  once i swear to god he ran off with a chick in her late 20's at most.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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Hmmm... there seems to be

Hmmm... there seems to be some confusion.  There's no question -- never has been -- that keyboard players are a bitter lot.  The only thing we get from being a keyboard player is lots of work.  No pussy.  Just lots of gigs.  Playing weddings for other guys who are getting pussy.  Any keyboard player who gets pussy gets it because he has something else going for him.

Drummers get pussy because they're drummers.  Lead singers, too.  Oh, and guitarists.  And bassists.  The thing is, it's just not sexy to either sit behind a keyboard or stand behind it and play shit that nobody hears anyway because the damn sound guy never turns the keyboard player up in the mix.   But the keyboard player is usually the guy who booked the gig.  And got the insurance for the van.  And wrote the music.  And showed the bass player how to tune his instrument.

It's a thankless job.

BUT... nobody makes jokes about the keyboard player, because then they'd have to do all that work themselves.  That's all I was saying Smiling

As far as good drummers, I'm with you.  There are about ten.  That's it.  A good friend of mine has a PhD in bass, and he and I do a jazz duo thing sometimes.  We pretty much decided after one duo show that we don't need no stinking drummers.  We do better without them, since we both have a good sense of time and space in music.

The reason I learned to play bass is that I got fucking sick and tired of having to teach bass players their parts.  (Keyboard players have been playing bass with their left hands their whole life.  Bass is an easy transition.)  Bad bass players ruin good music.  Even good bass players ruin good music.  Generally, when I see a six string bass, I run for the hills.  The bass is NOT a lead instrument, no matter what Les Claypool says.

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Hambydammit wrote:Hmmm...

Hambydammit wrote:

Hmmm... there seems to be some confusion.  There's no question -- never has been -- that keyboard players are a bitter lot.  The only thing we get from being a keyboard player is lots of work.  No pussy.  Just lots of gigs.  Playing weddings for other guys who are getting pussy.  Any keyboard player who gets pussy gets it because he has something else going for him.

Drummers get pussy because they're drummers.  Lead singers, too.  Oh, and guitarists.  And bassists.  The thing is, it's just not sexy to either sit behind a keyboard or stand behind it and play shit that nobody hears anyway because the damn sound guy never turns the keyboard player up in the mix.   But the keyboard player is usually the guy who booked the gig.  And got the insurance for the van.  And wrote the music.  And showed the bass player how to tune his instrument.

It's a thankless job.

BUT... nobody makes jokes about the keyboard player, because then they'd have to do all that work themselves.  That's all I was saying Smiling

As far as good drummers, I'm with you.  There are about ten.  That's it.  A good friend of mine has a PhD in bass, and he and I do a jazz duo thing sometimes.  We pretty much decided after one duo show that we don't need no stinking drummers.  We do better without them, since we both have a good sense of time and space in music.

The reason I learned to play bass is that I got fucking sick and tired of having to teach bass players their parts.  (Keyboard players have been playing bass with their left hands their whole life.  Bass is an easy transition.)  Bad bass players ruin good music.  Even good bass players ruin good music.  Generally, when I see a six string bass, I run for the hills.  The bass is NOT a lead instrument, no matter what Les Claypool says.

i understand you, hamby, even though we have no keyboard in our band.  our band leader is in fact our bass player, and he's the only one of us with classical training.  he usually ends up showing the lead guitarist what to play.  he's also firmly against a bass having more than 4 strings.  still, he's also guilty of doing the lead thing, and sometimes i just wish he'd stay low on the neck and keep the fuckin' time, since when i play i take my cues almost exclusively from the bass.

by keyboard player i'm assuming you're not talking about a frontman on piano, because ray charles, jerry lee, dr. john, fats domino, etc., all got major tail.  i also agree that drums are often superfluous.  i love the last few johnny cash albums that had no drums and used the bass notes on a piano like a percussive instrument.

i do have to say i've heard one very excellent 6-string bass player.  i'm not sure of his name, but he belongs to the little known welsh group ffynnon, who combine traditional celtic folk songs with a sort of jazz fusion sound.  they usually consist entirely of two-part female harmony, keyboard, and six-string bass.  they sing in welsh, english, breton, and various english country dialects.  as far as i know, they have only one album listed on amazon, but i've been a big fan of them since 2004.  worth checking out.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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What has 3 legs and an

What has 3 legs and an asshole?

 

A drum stool.


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Well, nobody will get

Well, nobody will get any argument from me on the rather low number of drummers worth playing with.

 

My band dumped our drummer because he was just not willing to act as part of a group. The last time we had one, well he claimed that he was in treatment for some condition that caused chronic pain. The problem we had was that seems to mean that he feels justified in taking large doses of something that slowed him down.

 

Too many times, I would get to his apartment to pick him up for rehearsals and he would not be willing to join us because he had taken his meds early and was not up to playing. When we did get him to show up, he would start out reasonably and then play slower and slower as his medication kicked in. Finally, he would call quits after about two hours.

 

So we finally dumped his ass and started looking for a new drummer. We still got together to play every Saturday and usually for about twice as long as when we had the druggie drummer. After a couple of months and a few attempts to get a replacement, we found that we had just drifted into a drummerless act.

 

That much being said, I have also had a couple of guitarists who just have this thing going on that they are somehow the best thing since I don't know what and everyone else has to bend over to accommodate them. I could tell you stories but they would go way too long for a short post.

 

Suffice to say that if you want to be in a band with me, you had better act like you are not the only person on the planet. That and you had best be willing to accept the fact that in response to every problem that I have faced over the years, I have accumulated enough gear that I can self produce and it is reasonably portable.

 

Hell, I have had sufficient issues over the years that I am willing to provide cabling if need be. That in response to the last guitarist I played with. He had what can only be described as a magical auxiliary dick. Basically, it was a pair of matching transformers. One converts a standard instrument plug to a balanced line, which would actually be fine for a long stage run of cable. However, he combines that with another that converts the XLR output back to quarter inch so that he can use a standard instrument cable to go to his amp. Combined, it was about eight inches long and it looked like a dick hanging off the back of his guitar. If you try to tell him just how stupid it looks, he will dig in his heels and claim that it is “electrically correct” to connect to an amp that way.

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Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

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Hambydammit wrote:We pretty

Hambydammit wrote:

We pretty much decided after one duo show that we don't need no stinking drummers.  We do better without them, since we both have a good sense of time and space in music.

If you do a recording and need to fill in the drum part, I'd be happy to put down a track for you. It won't be Steve Gadd, but it certainly won't be Neil Peart. I kind of gave up doing music professionally, as it's just a drag, but I do it for fun all the time.

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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Gahhhh. I tried a Neil

Gahhhh. I tried a Neil Peart fan after I got rid of the druggie. In his world, loud is the new accurate.

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Answers in Gene Simmons

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Gahhhh. I tried a Neil Peart fan after I got rid of the druggie. In his world, loud is the new accurate.

 

What happened to a drummer integrating with the band?

Have they been trained that "the drummer is the driving force" for so long that they think they're the feature?

That's why I model my playing more after Ringo - not the most technically proficient but he could fit in with anyone.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Musicians integrating

Musicians integrating with other musicians? You speak strange words friend.

 

One version of my band was me with a keyboard and guitarist. We were all playing with our small amps (like <= 30 watts). Then we let another guy connect with us and he showed up with a monster rig. A 300 watt head, two 3x10 cabs and an Ibanez axe with eight pickups and a Floyd Rose tremolo.

 

Not that there is anything wrong with that gear but if you want to play that stuff with other people, there are certain requirements. One of the big ones with him was that it was too much trouble for him to keep the hex key in his case. So everyone else had to tune flat because of the locking nut.

 

Another is that he had a drum machine that he played through his amp. Not even so much as a rack mount or table top box mind you. This was a little thing that would fit in a shirt pocket and would play the same four beats over and over. Trust me, that would have been annoying if it were backing the Ramones.

 

But seriously, I have pretty much ended up just playing in my living room because I am tired of dealing with that crap.

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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Musicians integrating with other musicians? You speak strange words friend.

 

One version of my band was me with a keyboard and guitarist. We were all playing with our small amps (like <= 30 watts). Then we let another guy connect with us and he showed up with a monster rig. A 300 watt head, two 3x10 cabs and an Ibanez axe with eight pickups and a Floyd Rose tremolo.

 

Not that there is anything wrong with that gear but if you want to play that stuff with other people, there are certain requirements. One of the big ones with him was that it was too much trouble for him to keep the hex key in his case. So everyone else had to tune flat because of the locking nut.

 

Another is that he had a drum machine that he played through his amp. Not even so much as a rack mount or table top box mind you. This was a little thing that would fit in a shirt pocket and would play the same four beats over and over. Trust me, that would have been annoying if it were backing the Ramones.

 

But seriously, I have pretty much ended up just playing in my living room because I am tired of dealing with that crap.

 

"simplify" has been my keyword for a long time.  my electric rig has always been a '52 reissue tele through a miced fender blues junior tube amp.  don't ever try to sell me a fucking pedal, except perhaps a digital delay.  i keep my overdrive switch on, my volume and tone knobs on maximum, i'm always on bridge pickup, and my sound guy knows when to turn the gain up or down.  that's it, that's all i need, and it fucking works.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


iwbiek
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on a related note, our

on a related note, our current bandleader is the only bass player i've ever allowed to play a fretless bass guitar with me, just because he really is fucking good.  i recall i once played a gig in a bar several years ago, while i was still in college, with just myself on acoustic guitar, a lead player on acoustic, and there was supposed to have been a bass player.  keep in mind we were playing mostly folk and country (kris kristofferson, townes van zandt, billy joe shaver, that kind of stuff), not jazz or anything like that.  i didn't know the bass player that well anyway (my buddy had recommended him), and he shows up with a fretless, five strings no less.  i told him not even to bother plugging in: i had my thumb and fingerpicks with me and i'd play my own goddamn bass notes.  and i did.  i mean, what the fuck?  i'd never bring my steel string martin and try to play a gig with manuel barrueco or some shit like that.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen