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Question for Theist

 Ok, It is obvious from reading the bible that god regards man as sinners. It seems like we can't do anything right without him. It also seems that after Jesus the miracles in the bible come to a hault. So if knowing god and jesus is so important then why would god leave it up to man to take care of it for him?

"Take all the heads of the people
and hang them up before the Lord
against the sun.” -- Numbers 25:4


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marshalltenbears wrote:So if

marshalltenbears wrote:

So if knowing god and jesus is so important then why would god leave it up to man to take care of it for him?

 

it's not really important. It's only important if you believe in christian mythology.


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Ciarin

Ciarin wrote:

marshalltenbears wrote:

So if knowing god and jesus is so important then why would god leave it up to man to take care of it for him?

 

it's not really important. It's only important if you believe in christian mythology.

Sorry, the post was meant for christians. I should have stated that. 

"Take all the heads of the people
and hang them up before the Lord
against the sun.” -- Numbers 25:4


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Ciarin

Ciarin wrote:

marshalltenbears wrote:

So if knowing god and jesus is so important then why would god leave it up to man to take care of it for him?

it's not really important. It's only important if you believe in christian mythology.

I think the question was pretty obviously supposed to be addressed from a Christian standpoint. You've made it abundantly clear that you're a polytheist, so for the sake of argument why not just give your two cents for once instead of making the "not all theists are christians" point again?

And marshall I've wondered the same thing, if we're so shitty why does God want our worship so bad? Couldn't he create better subjects to worship him? And why create us with specific penchants for various activities and then label them sinful?

"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."


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When the title of the thread

When the title of the thread says "Question for Theists" I'm going to answer. How about you stop saying "theist" when you really mean "christian"? Everytime you fuckers use "theist" for "christian", it tells me at least one of two things. 1, you think all theists are christians(or are like christians), and 2, you use the word theist because you don't want to come off like you only argue about christianity.

 

Most atheists I've spoken with give the impression that there are only 2 choices, you're either christian or you're atheist(in fact I go to a debate room specifically called christian vs atheist), and that's how they phrase every question or argument. Probably because the majority of theists are christian, so there's no need to argue about other religions. But every time you ask a question about God(as in capital G), you give credence to the christians and support their belief that it's either their god or nothing. And it's funny when you try to bring up the argument to them "why don't you believe in Thor or Zeus or Isis, etc?" because you almost never phrase an argument as if there were other gods that people could believe in. You only talk about their god, and you call him God rather than saying "the christian god". I've seen atheists start a thread with "Theists: prove God exists" and I'd ask which god, and they get annoyed because OBVIOUSLY they meant the CHRISTIAN GOD, the only god they care  about apparently.

 

If all you people care about is talking about christianity and their god, then stop saying THEIST whe you really mean CHRISTIAN. Cause I will answer to Theist every single time, whether you meant christian or not.

 


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Ciarin wrote:When the title

Ciarin wrote:

When the title of the thread says "Question for Theists" I'm going to answer. How about you stop saying "theist" when you really mean "christian"? Everytime you fuckers use "theist" for "christian", it tells me at least one of two things. 1, you think all theists are christians(or are like christians), and 2, you use the word theist because you don't want to come off like you only argue about christianity. Most atheists I've spoken with give the impression that there are only 2 choices, you're either christian or you're atheist(in fact I go to a debate room specifically called christian vs atheist), and that's how they phrase every question or argument. Probably because the majority of theists are christian, so there's no need to argue about other religions. But every time you ask a question about God(as in capital G), you give credence to the christians and support their belief that it's either their god or nothing. And it's funny when you try to bring up the argument to them "why don't you believe in Thor or Zeus or Isis, etc?" because you almost never phrase an argument as if there were other gods that people could believe in. You only talk about their god, and you call him God rather than saying "the christian god". I've seen atheists start a thread with "Theists: prove God exists" and I'd ask which god, and they get annoyed because OBVIOUSLY they meant the CHRISTIAN GOD, the only god they care  about apparently. If all you people care about is talking about christianity and their god, then stop saying THEIST whe you really mean CHRISTIAN. Cause I will answer to Theist every single time, whether you meant christian or not.

You forgot the last option.

3. The question is about Christianity but is open to theists of any kind

Polytheism has fallen by the wayside, especially in America, so the posters who deal with Christians on this forum and in their daily lives on an hourly basis are more likely to have arguments to address with them specifically. Other theists are allowed to give input of course, but if they have a question about the Christian faith, why is it wrong to ask it? 

And I fail to see how it's their problem if you're the one going to a forum entitled specifically "Christian vs Atheist." That would be like me going to a forum called "Wiccan vs Judaism" and asking why my deist beliefs were unheard. (I'm not a deist, just an example).

"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."


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marshalltenbears wrote: Ok,

marshalltenbears wrote:

 Ok, It is obvious from reading the bible that god regards man as sinners. It seems like we can't do anything right without him. It also seems that after Jesus the miracles in the bible come to a hault. So if knowing god and jesus is so important then why would god leave it up to man to take care of it for him?

Take care of what for Him?  I don't understand your question.


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croath

 

 

 

          There is no god and the charactor Jesus never really existed.  One must read the story book from the point of view of the people who wrote  the stories.  THEY wanted strict obedience to their athority otherwise they would have to go off and find a real job.  Imagine todays "holy"  people;  if they were not sucking money out of true believers what would they do for money? 

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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Conservative pundit circuit?

Conservative pundit circuit?


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maybe

crazymonkie wrote:

Conservative pundit circuit?

 

 

           I bet they don't make near as much money,  " con  with guilt"  sound worse then their grandmothers,  now that is how to  make money without working an honest  job.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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Oh, I dunno. Zakir Naik

Oh, I dunno. Zakir Naik seems to be doing pretty well for himself. Lying fucktard that he is.


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Zakir, MD

                 Zakir Naik believe it or not is a medical doctor;  it surprised me too!!    He could make a decent living without being indecent,  but chooses not to.   What would Ray Comfort do  or jimmy Swaggart those jackasses don't know anything but their congames.

 

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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Wow, an MD?!? I thought it

Wow, an MD?!? I thought it was like EE Smith's doctorate (crop science, as I recall).


croath
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Jeffrick

Jeffrick wrote:

          There is no god and the charactor Jesus never really existed.  One must read the story book from the point of view of the people who wrote  the stories.  THEY wanted strict obedience to their athority otherwise they would have to go off and find a real job.  Imagine todays "holy"  people;  if they were not sucking money out of true believers what would they do for money? 

 

It was actually time travelling atheists who wrote the Bible.  In the future, they are the sole holders of knowledge, and retain their power over the population precisely because of the deluded beliefs of the masses - beliefs that they created through the Bible.

But seriously, did you have anything interesting to say, or just unfounded assertions?


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cervello_marcio wrote:You

cervello_marcio wrote:

You forgot the last option.

3. The question is about Christianity but is open to theists of any kind

 

That option is usually specified and doesn't happen in general.

Quote:

Polytheism has fallen by the wayside, especially in America,

No it hasn't. Wicca is the fast growing religions in the US(link).

 

Quote:

so the posters who deal with Christians on this forum and in their daily lives on an hourly basis are more likely to have arguments to address with them specifically. Other theists are allowed to give input of course, but if they have a question about the Christian faith, why is it wrong to ask it?

 

Did I say it was wrong? Nope. I even said most christians are theists and so that's why most questions are geared towards them. The problem here is that you say theist when you really mean just christian.

 

Quote:

And I fail to see how it's their problem if you're the one going to a forum entitled specifically "Christian vs Atheist."

 

It's a chatroom and I don't mind debating in there. It's just an exmaple of how atheists view their arguments regarding theism, as if we're all christian.

 

Quote:

That would be like me going to a forum called "Wiccan vs Judaism" and asking why my deist beliefs were unheard. (I'm not a deist, just an example).

 

The chatroom is labelled atheist vs christian but people of any religious or non-religious background debate in there. It's mostly christian of course, but sometimes a jew will get in there, or more often muslims. I'm usually the only pagan in the room. For some reason I keep having to tell the christians I'm not atheist. It's on paltalk, in the christian section if you ever want to check it out. "Atheist vs Christian Debate Now".


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Ciarin wrote:That option is

Ciarin wrote:

That option is usually specified and doesn't happen in general.

I couldn't disagree more.

C wrote:
No it hasn't. Wicca is the fast growing religions in the US(link).

Broken link. Lol.

C wrote:

Did I say it was wrong? Nope. I even said most christians are theists and so that's why most questions are geared towards them. The problem here is that you say theist when you really mean just christian.

Your opinion=/=fact

C wrote:

It's a chatroom and I don't mind debating in there. It's just an exmaple of how atheists view their arguments regarding theism, as if we're all christian...The chatroom is labelled atheist vs christian but people of any religious or non-religious background debate in there. It's mostly christian of course, but sometimes a jew will get in there, or more often muslims. I'm usually the only pagan in the room. For some reason I keep having to tell the christians I'm not atheist. It's on paltalk, in the christian section if you ever want to check it out. "Atheist vs Christian Debate Now".

Notice that the religious people on this site get a theist badge, not a christian one. Regardless of your personal beliefs, you are part of a bigger group on this site. Stop complaining about it. Not all the atheists here are secular humanists, but you don't see the nihilists complaining every time someone makes a thread about what gives their life meaning. 

BECAUSE IT'S CALLED "ATHEIST VS CHRISTIAN"

 

 

 

"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."


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cervello_marcio wrote:Ciarin

cervello_marcio wrote:

Ciarin wrote:

That option is usually specified and doesn't happen in general.

I couldn't disagree more.

 

k

 

Quote:

C wrote:
No it hasn't. Wicca is the fast growing religions in the US(link).

Broken link. Lol.

 

It seems to be working for me. Are you sure this link doesn't work? http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm

 

Quote:

C wrote:

Did I say it was wrong? Nope. I even said most christians are theists and so that's why most questions are geared towards them. The problem here is that you say theist when you really mean just christian.

Your opinion=/=fact

 

No one said my opinion was fact. I'm not stating my opinion here. I'm relaying to you my experiences that atheists tend to say theist when they really only mean christian. If I were to state my opinion I'd say something like you guys suck for thinking we're all christian.

 

Quote:

Notice that the religious people on this site get a theist badge, not a christian one.

Notice that I have to indicate that I'm not christian in my signature, and even then some think I'm a christian on here. You should also notice that not all religious people are theists and not all theists are religious.

 

Quote:

Regardless of your personal beliefs, you are part of a bigger group on this site. Stop complaining about it. Not all the atheists here are secular humanists, but you don't see the nihilists complaining every time someone makes a thread about what gives their life meaning.

 

I am part of a bigger group, I didn't indicate otherwise. And because I'm part of a bigger I like to make sure you people are aware that not all of us are christian, because you seem to forget it sometimes.

Quote:

BECAUSE IT'S CALLED "ATHEIST VS CHRISTIAN"

 

This forum is called atheist vs theist.


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Ciarin wrote:It seems to be

Ciarin wrote:

It seems to be working for me. Are you sure this link doesn't work? http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm

Got it. Doubling every 30 months, nice. I was wrong. 

C wrote:

No one said my opinion was fact. I'm not stating my opinion here. I'm relaying to you my experiences that atheists tend to say theist when they really only mean christian. If I were to state my opinion I'd say something like you guys suck for thinking we're all christian.

No, you are stating an opinion, because you can't speak to someone's intent. But this is just semantics. Moving on.

Quote:

Notice that I have to indicate that I'm not christian in my signature, and even then some think I'm a christian on here. You should also notice that not all religious people are theists and not all theists are religious.

Theism: belief in god or gods

Religious: believing in a superhuman controlling power/powers, esp. a personal god or gods

Quote:

I am part of a bigger group, I didn't indicate otherwise. And because I'm part of a bigger I like to make sure you people are aware that not all of us are christian, because you seem to forget it sometimes.

So...you didn't read what I wrote. Everyone is different in their own special way, I know.

Quote:

This forum is called atheist vs theist.

Context clues.

Ciarin wrote:

"in fact I go to a debate room specifically called christian vs atheist"

"The chatroom is labelled atheist vs christian"

"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."


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Ciarin wrote:Everytime you

Ciarin wrote:

Everytime you fuckers use "theist" for "christian", it tells me at least one of two things. 1, you think all theists are christians(or are like christians), and 2, you use the word theist because you don't want to come off like you only argue about christianity.

I understand that this frustrates you, but as far as I can tell, it's completely unintentional and/or unconscious. Personally, I always try to use the right terms. But, when you're debating philosophy on the Internet and someone mentions "God," chances are, it's safe to assume they're referring to an all-powerful, creator God. Atheists don't do this because they're morons that think all theists are Christians, and those Christians in the chat room didn't suspect you were an atheist because they're morons that think all non-Christians are atheists; they do this out of habit and convenience. Getting people on online, especially those that don't share you opinions, to explain their worldview is a chore.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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cervello_marcio wrote:No,

cervello_marcio wrote:

No, you are stating an opinion, because you can't speak to someone's intent. But this is just semantics. Moving on.

 

 

Except I'm told they meant christian. So it's not my opinion.

 

Quote:

Theism: belief in god or gods

Religious: believing in a superhuman controlling power/powers, esp. a personal god or gods

 

Some forms of buddhism are atheist. There are atheist pagans.

 

Quote:

Context clues.

Ciarin wrote:

"in fact I go to a debate room specifically called christian vs atheist"

"The chatroom is labelled atheist vs christian"

 

 

 

Yea, you didn't read what I wrote. The name of the chatroom is just an example.

 

 

 


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Ciarin wrote:Except I'm told

Ciarin wrote:

Except I'm told they meant christian. So it's not my opinion.

Let's go to our atheist in the field...

ButterBattle wrote:

I understand that this frustrates you, but as far as I can tell, it's completely unintentional and/or unconscious. 

Quote:

Some forms of buddhism are atheist. There are atheist pagans.

Then they are not religious. There, that was easy. What is it that people who don't want to be accountable for their religion say? "I'm spiritual." Look at it like that.

Context clues.

Ciarin wrote:

Yea, you didn't read what I wrote. The name of the chatroom is just an example.

Actually I did read what you wrote. I was referring to that chatroom specifically. Wanna know why? Because it was the one we were talking about. 

"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."


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cervello_marcio wrote:Ciarin

cervello_marcio wrote:

Ciarin wrote:

Except I'm told they meant christian. So it's not my opinion.

Let's go to our atheist in the field...

ButterBattle wrote:

I understand that this frustrates you, but as far as I can tell, it's completely unintentional and/or unconscious. 

yep. Still not my opinion.

 

Quote:

Quote:

Some forms of buddhism are atheist. There are atheist pagans.

Then they are not religious. There, that was easy. What is it that people who don't want to be accountable for their religion say? "I'm spiritual." Look at it like that.

 

Well, that's too bad cause they are religious. There, that was easy.

 

Quote:


Actually I did read what you wrote. I was referring to that chatroom specifically. Wanna know why? Because it was the one we were talking about. 

We were also talking about this forum. The NAME of the chatroom is an example of the mindset I'm criticizing, that chatroom actual had more than just atheists and christians in it and the content of what was debated was a lot more than just christianity vs atheism. So I have no complaints about being in that chatroom, so when you said "That would be like me going to a forum called "Wiccan vs Judaism" and asking why my deist beliefs were unheard", your analogy was flawed. Get it yet?

 


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Ciarin wrote:Except I'm told

Ciarin wrote:
Except I'm told they meant christian. So it's not my opinion.

cervello_marcio wrote:
Let's go to our atheist in the field...
 

butterbattle wrote:
I understand that this frustrates you, but as far as I can tell, it's completely unintentional and/or unconscious.
 

Ciarin is correct. Sometimes, when atheists say theist, they actually mean Christian.

marshalltenbears wrote:
Question for Theist

marshalltenbears wrote:
Sorry, the post was meant for christians. I should have stated that.
 

See?

However, they don't actually think that all theists are Christians. They do this out of simple absent-mindedness and/or convenience. Otherwise, instead of apologizing, marshalltenbears would have said something like, "WTF! How can you be a theist and not a Christian!?!11"

Ciarin wrote:
Some forms of buddhism are atheist. There are atheist pagans.

cervello_marcio wrote:

Then they are not religious. There, that was easy.

Dictionary definitions that I've seen do not imply that you must be a theist to be religious. The definition that I usually use is "an institutionalized system of attitudes, beliefs, and practices held with ardor and faith." Under this definition, additional systems of belief, such as Stalinism, non-theistic Buddhists, 9/11 truthers, etc., can, arguably, be considered religions. Plus, some theists, like deists or pantheists, aren't necessarily religious.    

Besides, 'god' is only one type of unjustifiable, supernatural claim among many. I don't see why it should be given a monopoly on "religion." 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religious

1: relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>

2: of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances <joined a religious order>

3 a: scrupulously and conscientiously faithful 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion 

1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness

4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare