Antitheist definition.

EXC
atheist
EXC's picture
Posts: 4111
Joined: 2008-01-17
User is offlineOffline
Antitheist definition.

There seems to be confusion about the meaning of this term. You can read the current definition on wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitheism 

 

I listened to a debate with Christopher Hitchens, he described himself as an antitheist. Meaning that if there was a God like the Christian God, he would be find this to be a horrific situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5INo7W2P-Jk

 

It seems this is quite different than opposing the teaching and practice of theism here on earth. I know most people that are one are also the other. But, I think there needs to be a clear distinction between the two.

A rational minded person can't be an atheist only because the prospect of there being a god is bad. We would be like the Theist that "believe what they want to be true" by "not believing what we don't want to be true". It should be clear that we don't believe because of evidence, not because we "hate god".

A satanist might be consider an antitheist because they oppose god while still believing there is a god. With the definition Hitchens gave, they'd be both a theist and antitheist at the same time. I think he made a mistake giving this definition because it plays into the propaganda that atheists "hate God".

 

Here is post in the dispute section about the confusion:

 

  • Antitheism is the opposition of the belief in god.
  • Atheism is the lack of the belief that God even exist.
  • Antireligion is the opposition of religon.
  • Irreligion are those who have no religion.
  • ****** is the opposition of god.

The difference should be noted! Monkey Brain 19:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Read the article. Antitheism has more than one possible meaning: it can either refer to opposition to the "actual" God, or opposition to belief in god (i.e., "anti-theism", opposition to theism). -Silence 22:18, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
hah, you're correct. things should be clearer though. So do you or anyone know what the term for opposition of God is?
There is no generally agreed term. --Dannyno 20:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Read the article. Antitheism has more than one possible meaning: it can either refer to opposition to the "actual" God, or opposition to belief in god (i.e., "anti-theism", opposition to theism). -
Silence 22:18, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
hah, you're correct. things should be clearer though. So do you or anyone know what the term for opposition of God is?
There is no generally agreed term. --Dannyno 20:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
I don't see a problem with a

I don't see a problem with a satanist being an anti-theist.  If somebody believes in the biblical god, he presumably believes that Satan is not a god.  However, since a Satanist also presumably believes that Satan is in the right and God is in the wrong, he is against the worship of God -- theism.  I think the problem you're seeing with Hitchens statement is that there's a slight equivocation on the term.  In my book, belief in the existence of a deity makes you theist.  You don't have to practice religion or even like the deity you believe in.  You just have to believe it exists.  By this definition, a Satanist is a theist.  However, if we narrow the usage a little bit, so that theism is the practice of trying to do what you believe a deity wants you to do... well, that's a little muddy.

Admittedly, this is a stretch.  I don't think most modern satanists (I think that accounts for what... about twenty five people now?)  actually believe in God and Satan.  The three or four satanists I've talked to in recent years seem to believe in a philosophy more than an actual being.  In any case, from a strictly hypothetical point of view, sure.  Satanists are anti-theist, and I don't see how to avoid calling them theists either.

We also have to realize that one could be an atheist without being an anti-theist.  There are clearly some people who believe that practicing religion is good for humanity even though they don't believe there are really any gods out there.  The myth that religion is good for morality has a long and glorious history, and there are certainly nonbelievers who buy into it.

I'm certainly an anti-theist, but I've always had a clear distinction between atheism and anti-theism.  Atheism is the result of properly applying the scientific method to the universe.  Anti-theism is more of an inexact position since theism manifests in so many ways.  As Cpt_Pineapple will quickly point out, a blanket declaration against any and all theism is not as easy to justify as atheism itself.  I try to keep those two conversations completely separate just to make sure that no cheeky theists will accuse me of being atheist because of my anti-theism.  Quite the contrary is true.  I was an atheist for several years before the accumulation of evidence convinced me that theism is inherently bad for humans.

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


darth_josh
High Level DonorHigh Level ModeratorGold Member
darth_josh's picture
Posts: 2650
Joined: 2006-02-27
User is offlineOffline
I'm anti-theism, but

I'm anti-theism, but pro-theist. I still have hope for the person to become devoid of the belief.

Hate the sin not the sinner, my brothers. lol.

Long time ago now...

"Hate the -ism, not the -ist." - bygone RRS poster

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.


EXC
atheist
EXC's picture
Posts: 4111
Joined: 2008-01-17
User is offlineOffline
Hambydammit wrote:I think

Hambydammit wrote:

I think the problem you're seeing with Hitchens statement is that there's a slight equivocation on the term.  

No, I see a big a equivocation . I understand that it would be horrific to have the God of bible continually controlling and watching us. But the average fundamentalist is just going to read the title of his book 'God is not Great' and hear him say he thinks having God rule the universe would be horrific. Then they say, see "all atheists hate God", just like the bible says. And never understand that we can't hate something we don't believe exists.

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


Jeffrick
High Level DonorRational VIP!SuperfanGold Member
Jeffrick's picture
Posts: 2446
Joined: 2008-03-25
User is offlineOffline
Satanists.

 

 

       Hamby I am going to disagree with you on your first paragraph only. Defining satanists as anit-theist seems a bit awkward. Because Satan is as much a part of the theology of the bible as God & Moses etc. and it gets a dishonorable mention in the new testament has well.  A Satanist can be anti god  but not anti-theists.

 

 

 

        Satan even gets the upper hand on god by leading the old coot around by the nose just to screw over one pathetic believer in the book of Job. God is a wuss seems to  be the lesson of Job.   The staunchest believers in satan today of course are the christian fundies,  Satan is their  raison d'etre otherwise there is nothing to be saved from.  God is still a wuss since the devil is stronger and god can't do anything about it.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?