Einstein was an Atheist! Proof: Einstein's "God letter"

Anonymous
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Einstein was an Atheist! Proof: Einstein's "God letter"

Topic: Einstein was an Atheist! Proof: Einstein's "God letter"

One year before his death Einstein privately rejected god and religion, as well.

Below is a link to a partial translation of Einstein's "God letter."

http://www.relativitybook.com/resources/Einstein_religion.html

Written 1 year before his death, a
private Einstein "God letter" recently sold for 400K, and reveals previously
witheld private views on God and Religion. Also see:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24668015/

However, with regard to his publicly stated religious views (while in the U.S.) Einstein would properly have been considered a Scientific Pantheist, rather than simply a Pantheist. "Scientific Pantheism" is a formal modern day branch of modern day Pantheism.

In short, Einstein privately was an Atheist! A man's private views expressed privately a year before his death offer greater insight into a man's truly held beliefs, than would have any public statements for mass consumption, spoken during a man's career.

What is VERY interesting to be aware of is that the referred to letter was
"deep sixed" for a half century! Someone wanted to be very certain that Einstein's Atheistic beliefs were not made known!

Einstein as an Atheist is a topic which I've debated at Religious Forums, and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever, thay even within an Atheist Forum, fervent and vehement opposition to be hatefully expressed for every possible reason under the sun and moon, as it always has been.


marcusfish
Superfan
marcusfish's picture
Posts: 676
Joined: 2007-05-11
User is offlineOffline
treat2 wrote: Einstein as an

treat2 wrote:
Einstein as an Atheist is a topic which I've debated at Religious Forums, and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever, thay even within an Atheist Forum, fervent and vehement opposition to be hatefully expressed for every possible reason under the sun and moon, as it always has been.

Why is it you feel this is an important topic? What does proof of Einstein's religious preference do for us (or against us)? I mean, I get that it's annoying to hear someone claim someone for "their side" when that person probably wasn't, but other than idle argument against misrepresentation, where does this topic lead us?

Just curious, it sounds like you have decided it is very important.


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Actually, it interests me

Actually, it interests me that Einstein's letter was "deep sixed" over a half century.

It also interests me that everyone including the Pope and other Theists, and the Press then and now still find this topic quite important.

Not unlike yourself, I find their interest, past and present, rather amusing.

As to the rest of it, you can
find recent posts on this site that also show deeply held beliefs as to what Einstein did or did not believe, with regard to gods,
and religion.

Lastly, Einstein was a fascinating character whose response to queries from the Press and the public was very clever. Rather than say what he privately said about god and religion, he played the game very well by publicly responding: "My God is the God of Spinoza."

A brilliant response!

Granted, no one knew who the hell Spinoza was, and what Spinoza's non-personal god meant, except for a select few.

However, as to any personal "importance", regarding the topic. I've no more an investment in it, than watching you vomit. Although
it would be more interesting
and ...

I REALLY liked your approach!
Well done. And EXACTLY the sort of "uninterested" response I fully nderstand the purpose of.

Any more spam you'd like to contribute?


Ken G.
Bronze Member
Posts: 1352
Joined: 2008-03-20
User is offlineOffline
treat2 wrote: Einstein was an Atheist !

    YES ! I have finely saw it ,in the words of the greatest mind.Thank's for the links,treat2. Ever since my first A.Einstein book that I read (Ideas and Opinions) I have always wanted to read in his own words about the term "GOD" . Thank's again. 

Signature ? How ?


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
The "Einstein God Letter"

The "Einstein God Letter" was deep sixed for 60 years.

The "Einstein God Letter" was sold at public auction for
$400,000.

$400,000. for a rather short letter is not insignificant, nor was it insignificant that the letter has been hidden.

Interestingly, not only was the name(s) of the original owner(s) not made known, but the buyer's name was also not made known (the buyer being anonymous is not unusual, but the original seller's names not made known IS.)

If anyone ha the slIghtest doubt as to the significance of Einstein's beliefs in god and religion, simply put up a post in a religious forum and claim the same.

EVEN THE IDEA that Einstein was an Atheist is STILL a reminder of assholes like the one above this post that are reay to pounce on any suggestion of Einstein not believing in god.

It remains highly important, even to asshole Atheists!

I forgot to LOL.


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Ken G. wrote:... Thank's

Ken G. wrote:
... Thank's again

The pleasure was entirely mine.


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
treat2 wrote:Topic: Einstein

treat2 wrote:
Topic: Einstein was an Atheist! Proof: Einstein's "God letter"

One year before his death Einstein privately rejected god and religion, as well.

Below is a link to a partial translation of Einstein's "God letter."

http://www.relativitybook.com/resources/Einstein_religion.html

Written 1 year before his death, a
private Einstein "God letter" recently sold for 400K, and reveals previously
witheld private views on God and Religion. Also see:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24668015/

However, with regard to his publicly stated religious views (while in the U.S.) Einstein would properly have been considered a Scientific Pantheist, rather than simply a Pantheist. "Scientific Pantheism" is a formal modern day branch of modern day Pantheism.

In short, Einstein privately was an Atheist! A man's private views expressed privately a year before his death offer greater insight into a man's truly held beliefs, than would have any public statements for mass consumption, spoken during a man's career.

What is VERY interesting to be aware of is that the referred to letter was
"deep sixed" for a half century! Someone wanted to be very certain that Einstein's Atheistic beliefs were not made known!

Einstein as an Atheist is a topic which I've debated at Religious Forums, and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever, thay even within an Atheist Forum, fervent and vehement opposition to be hatefully expressed for every possible reason under the sun and moon, as it always has been.

I can't edit the thread post to add a more comprehensive translation of the letter, but check this one out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/may/13/peopleinscience.religion


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

treat2 wrote:
Topic: Einstein was an Atheist! Proof: Einstein's "God letter" One year before his death Einstein privately rejected god and religion, as well. Below is a link to a partial translation of Einstein's "God letter." http://www.relativitybook.com/resources/Einstein_religion.html Written 1 year before his death, a private Einstein "God letter" recently sold for 400K, and reveals previously witheld private views on God and Religion. Also see: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24668015/ However, with regard to his publicly stated religious views (while in the U.S.) Einstein would properly have been considered a Scientific Pantheist, rather than simply a Pantheist. "Scientific Pantheism" is a formal modern day branch of modern day Pantheism. In short, Einstein privately was an Atheist! A man's private views expressed privately a year before his death offer greater insight into a man's truly held beliefs, than would have any public statements for mass consumption, spoken during a man's career. What is VERY interesting to be aware of is that the referred to letter was "deep sixed" for a half century! Someone wanted to be very certain that Einstein's Atheistic beliefs were not made known! Einstein as an Atheist is a topic which I've debated at Religious Forums, and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever, thay even within an Atheist Forum, fervent and vehement opposition to be hatefully expressed for every possible reason under the sun and moon, as it always has been.

The whole Einstein thing is just another public fetish. On the presumption Einstein was a physicist/mathematician of the godlike status he is accorded by the public he would certainly be the first to disclaim any expertise in a science other than physics and in any branch of physics unrelated to his specialty. Thus taking his opion on theism as of merit is lame to say the least.

As an example, the bulk of Newton's reseach and publications are on alchemy -- he was for it. It is no more rational to take Einstein's opinion of theism seriously than it is to take Newton's opinion on alchemy seriously.

It is even less credible extend an opinion on theism to a religion. Theism is neutral. Religion without pressure of society or law is neutral. Unfortunately we are talking about religions with the force of custom and law behind them.

That is why we are here. If theism were neutral and religion purely a matter of personal choice we might have an opinion but there would be no target. The issues would only come up in more generic groups like philosophy and sociology.

The fallacy of "he was smart so I am right" is obvious when considering Newton. There is no point to dragging Einstein into the discussion.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:The whole

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The whole Einstein thing is just another public fetish. ...

I think it would be more accurate to say that it "remains", rather than "is".

After all, we're talkin about
approximately a period of 3 generations i.e. 75 years.

That is hardly a "fetish" or fad.

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

...There is no point to dragging Einstein into the discussion.

I addressed the point of it above, and in previous posts.

BTW. This independent thread is not "dragging Einstein into the discussion" the
"discussion" IN THIS THREAD is that Einstein clearly was actually a "closet Atheist!,
not a Pantheist, as he claimed publicly.

Do you have any idea what would have become of
Einstein's career, had he admitted to actually being an Atheist?

The conclusion is obvious!

Perhaps it has not ocurred to you that Atheists have been and are rejected and persecuted to various degrees, in a wide variety of ways worldwide! THAT is no fad, nor fetish.

That you would like to deep six any discussion of this hidden letter shows very little understanding of the relevance of a variety of relevant facts which pertain to Atheists and their status, particularly those closet Atheists that are held in very high regard by world opinion but whose Atheism is DENIED by them.

On the other hand, you may be insipid rather than ignorant of the "conditions" Atheists find themselves in.

There was a reason and purpose that this letter was hidden over 50 years.

There was a reason and purpose that Einstein referred to Spinoza and constantly referred to God in his lectures at Princeton.

There is a reason and purpose that Einstein is still talked about today withregard to HIS OWN views on god and
religion.

I leave all of that for you to dis over when you grow up,
as I'm not here to spoonfeed
anyone's child.


The Doomed Soul
atheist
The Doomed Soul's picture
Posts: 2148
Joined: 2007-08-31
User is offlineOffline
urgh.... Treat, you remind

urgh.... Treat, you remind me of Mohammad so much, its sicking (former forum post)

In fact... you may even be Mohammad >.>

 

Commence witch hunt!

*grabs torch*

What Would Kharn Do?


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
The Doomed Soul

The Doomed Soul wrote:

urgh.... Treat, you remind me of Mohammad so much, its sicking (former forum post)

In fact... you may even be Mohammad >.>

 

Commence witch hunt!

*grabs torch*

Thanks!

On second thought, let's drag
Einstein's "God letter" into the Modulators dumbasshoe.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/may/13/peopleinscience.religion

Einstein was a closet Atheist, foos!

Here's an example of the interest and importance of Einstein's beliefs in god and religion to a Theist (i.e. the poster is a Theist). It was posted on this web site in another thread, only a few hours ago. (My PDA prevents me from certain lookups, such as a direct URL to that post. So, here it is as posted. Note the other posters that were equally interested in the topic.)
Here's the post:

Paisley wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

...here's one of the first things i found, from this article:

http://www.ctinquiry.org/publications/reflections_volume_1/torrance.htm wrote:

Einstein certainly held, as his constant appeal to God showed, that without God nothing can be known, but what did he really mean by his appeal to Spinoza? Once in answer to the question "Do you believe in the God of Spinoza?" Einstein replied as follows:

I can't answer with a simple yes or no. I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see a universe marvellously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's pantheism, but admire even more his contributions to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and the body as one, not two separate things.

I commend you on your diligent research.

"I'm not an atheist." That settles it. Einstein was not an atheist. However, Einstein appears to be wavering or backpedaling when he says "and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist" (emphasis mine). I THINK that maybe we can call him a pantheist based on his statement: "I believe in the God of Spinoza." The God of Spinoza is clearly a pantheistic one. Also, that Einstein extolls the virtues of Buddhism also lends support to the idea that Einstein embraced some form of pantheism. Moreover, it would appear to me that Einstein objection to quantum theory was not based on scientific grounds but religious ones (the God of Spinoza is a completely deterministic one and quantum theory is incompatible with determinism).1

1 "Eintein and God" by Thomas Torrance"


marcusfish
Superfan
marcusfish's picture
Posts: 676
Joined: 2007-05-11
User is offlineOffline
treat2 wrote:Any more spam

treat2 wrote:
Any more spam you'd like to contribute?

Damn dude, I responded to the topic you started, constructively.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but you clearly don't even want to have a conversation. You just want to be an asshole.

RRS guidelines be damned... you can go fuck yourself, treat.


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Moe spam. Read the links to

Moe spam.

Read the links to Eistein's God letter I posted in the thread and learn something, ya Jerk.


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

treat2 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The whole Einstein thing is just another public fetish. ...
I think it would be more accurate to say that it "remains", rather than "is". After all, we're talkin about approximately a period of 3 generations i.e. 75 years. That is hardly a "fetish" or fad.
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
...There is no point to dragging Einstein into the discussion.
I addressed the point of it above, and in previous posts. BTW. This independent thread is not "dragging Einstein into the discussion" the "discussion" IN THIS THREAD is that Einstein clearly was actually a "closet Atheist!, not a Pantheist, as he claimed publicly. Do you have any idea what would have become of Einstein's career, had he admitted to actually being an Atheist? The conclusion is obvious! Perhaps it has not ocurred to you that Atheists have been and are rejected and persecuted to various degrees, in a wide variety of ways worldwide! THAT is no fad, nor fetish. That you would like to deep six any discussion of this hidden letter shows very little understanding of the relevance of a variety of relevant facts which pertain to Atheists and their status, particularly those closet Atheists that are held in very high regard by world opinion but whose Atheism is DENIED by them. On the other hand, you may be insipid rather than ignorant of the "conditions" Atheists find themselves in. There was a reason and purpose that this letter was hidden over 50 years. There was a reason and purpose that Einstein referred to Spinoza and constantly referred to God in his lectures at Princeton. There is a reason and purpose that Einstein is still talked about today withregard to HIS OWN views on god and religion. I leave all of that for you to dis over when you grow up, as I'm not here to spoonfeed anyone's child.

As to what would have happened to him if he admitted to be an atheist, not nearly as much as if he had admitted that as an atheist he was not a Jew. His entire cheering section would have deserted him. The zionists who invented a people separate from the religion would not have offered him the presidency of Israel even though he condemned zionism.

As for trying to end this discussion, not really. I simply point out his opinion has no relevance to the subject, on that we appear to agree.

As to the letter being hidden I was unaware that the seller had announced an specific intention to keep it hidden. Lots of things remain in private collections and only see the light of day at decades long intervals. I see no way to draw any implication from it not being sold earlier unless clearly stated in quotation marks.

But in fact the translated part does not say he is an atheist. It merely gives his opinion of the OT and Judaism and the position taken by the recipient of the letter. It does not indicate he spent much time actually thinking things through. In fact his "identification" with Jewish thought shows a singular ignorance of the diversity of Jewish thought around the world and by inference appears to be a reference only to that of eastern Europe.

Without the assumption of it having been hidden (did I miss something?) I do not see anything new worth discussing.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
I've never lost a debate

I've never lost a debate with an educated person, but I can not debate a fool, such as yourself.


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

treat2 wrote:
I've never lost a debate with an educated person, but I can not debate a fool, such as yourself.
You must feel awful losing to an idiot who was not even debating but rather only reciting the facts against you baseless assumptions.


 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


EXC
atheist
EXC's picture
Posts: 3139
Joined: 2008-01-17
User is onlineOnline
treat2 wrote:Topic: Einstein

treat2 wrote:
Topic: Einstein was an Atheist! Proof: Einstein's "God letter" 

 

Which one, Elmo or Melvin?

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Thanks for proving what I

Thanks for proving what I stated in the thread post!


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

treat2 wrote:
Thanks for proving what I stated in the thread post!

You could have let this go. I did. But tell me why your first thought was that this is a debate and  that there has to be a winner? Competative debates I am familiar with are scored by judges. Those on the internet only have self-declared winners which you might hove noticed are less than worthless. They are merely a declaration of ego and dumbness.

Here is the link you cited in its entirety.

[blockquote]

Letter to Eric Gutkind (partial)
Albert Einstein (1954)
Translated from the German by Joan Stambaugh


...


... The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them.

In general I find it painful that you claim a privileged position and try to defend it by two walls of pride, an external one as a man and an internal one as a Jew. As a man you claim, so to speak, a dispensation from causality otherwise accepted, as a Jew the priviliege of monotheism. But a limited causality is no longer a causality at all, as our wonderful Spinoza recognized with all incision, probably as the first one. And the animistic interpretations of the religions of nature are in principle not annulled by monopolisation. With such walls we can only attain a certain self-deception, but our moral efforts are not furthered by them. On the contrary.

Now that I have quite openly stated our differences in intellectual convictions it is still clear to me that we are quite close to each other in essential things, ie in our evalutations of human behaviour. What separates us are only intellectual 'props' and `rationalisation' in Freud's language. Therefore I think that we would understand each other quite well if we talked about concrete things. 

With friendly thanks and best wishes 

Yours, A. Einstein.

[/blockquote]

The most I can see you can do is take the first three words "the word God" as meaning god and a Germanic excess of words or you need agree this is not about theism but about "the word god" and Judaism. If you have a third or fourth alternate please express them.

He refers to the bible as primitive legends and while the may include New and Old testaments it rapidly focusses upon the Old. If that is not enough the New may contain legends but in context cannot be described as primitive. Dumb, stupid, irrational, magical but not primitive. He is talking about Judaism only, not theism in general. I have no idea what his opinions were on theism in general but I do not find that opinion here.

The issue of the Jewish people to whom he "belongs" is poorly thought out. If he did in fact believe in this belonging it is unclear how he could identify with the Arabic speaking Jews who identified with Arabic culture while maintaining their only difference was their religion. I know some people are skilled at denying what is clearly written by Jewish Arabs but that does not change the fact.

He then goes on to say these Jews which more or less has to have been the Ashkenazi "are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power."It was citing that power which zionism would give a Jewish nation which caused him to reject and condemn zionism. Only a die-hard zionist could claim that has not been proven in spades. "Jews stole the land. The owners want it back." Evidence beyond a reasonable doubt the power exposed Jews to the cancers of power, in this case wholesale theft, mass murder and ethnic cleansing. And far from an error of the past on ongoing crime in killing to keep what was stolen, a crime which can never end until the private property is returned to the owners.

That is just the first paragraph. If you would like to go into the other two please feel free to start the discussion. If you want to call it a debate then I want neutral judges to create rules and judge by them and not just some kid declaring he won just because he thinks he got in the last word.

If you think you are up to it I am here until I am banned again.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
The letter speaks for

The letter speaks for itself.
The wording is not in the least bit cryptic, and I've no desire to debate it.

He as much said he was an Atheist, without directly saying it.

What I did predict in the thread post is exactly
what you're attempting.
You too, proved my point.

Thanks!


Holyheretic (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Einstein was an atheist - I dedicated a blog to the subject

   

For Einstein the Word God was Devoid of the Divine.

Most mortals believe in a "personal God", in heaven and souls, in idols and all kinds of sacred follies - - - and they also believe that Einstein believed in God. 

Not only Einstein's personal God had been dead all along. In fact God was never even alive according to Einstein. 

According to Einstein, God is "a product of human weakness". Einstein's quotes were used by dealers of delusions to confuse the common man to fool him about Einstein true religious beliefs. Einstein categorically rejected the supernatural. 

For further elucidation see my new blog: Einstein the Atheist

 

 http://einsteintheatheist.blogspot.com/

 

 


loril (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
The Concept of Atheism is as archaic as Theism

 It is amazing to me that so many well educated, open minded, sincere seekers of empirical truth still argue about weather there is or there is not a god. Einstein is once again leagues ahead of so many as he writes this letter. He is not writing of existence here he is writing of concepts and more specifically the idea that an anthropomorphic god exists that has human attributes and interacts with humanity as one person would with another. He is right when he out that Judeo-Christian scripture is so redacted that any essential information they may have originally contained may be entirely missing. When Einstein refers to the god of Spinoza he implies that the concept of god takes on the attributes that the perception of god gives it and that his own concept that reflects an impersonal and abstract god. Ironically, I believe Einstein eloquently points out that God blinks in and out of existence like an observable quantum particle or wave as each person conceives whatever god might or might not be .  The real catch in this letter seems to be the refutation that any one group of human beings is chosen in any preselective way. Weather chosen for good or ill being chosen implies a kind of specialness and that can be perceived as superiority. Clearly, it is that tendency toward the human concept of what god is that Einstein warns against in this portion of his letter. 

 

 


loril (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
The concept of god

 It is amazing to me that so many well educated, open minded, sincere seekers of empirical truth still argue about  It is amazing to me that so many well educated, open minded, sincere seekers of empirical truth still argue about weather there is or there is not a god. Einstein is once again leagues ahead of so many as he writes this letter. He is not writing of existence here he is writing of concepts and more specifically the idea that an anthropomorphic god exists that has human attributes and interacts with humanity as one person would with another. He is right when he out that Judeo-Christian scripture is so redacted that any essential information they may have originally contained may be entirely missing. When Einstein refers to the god of Spinoza he implies that the concept of god takes on the attributes that the perception of god gives it and that his own concept that reflects an impersonal and abstract god. Ironically, I believe Einstein eloquently points out that God blinks in and out of existence like an observable quantum particle or wave as each person conceives whatever god might or might not be .  The real catch in this letter seems to be the refutation that any one group of human beings is chosen in any preselective way. Weather chosen for good or ill being chosen implies a kind of specialness and that can be perceived as superiority. Clearly, it is that tendency toward the human concept of what god is that Einstein warns against in this portion of his letter.  there is or there is not a god. Einstein is once again leagues ahead of so many as he writes this letter. He is not writing of existence here he is writing of concepts and more specifically the idea that an anthropomorphic god exists that has human attributes and interacts with humanity as one person would with another. He is right when he out that Judeo-Christian scripture is so redacted that any essential information they may have originally contained may be entirely missing. When Einstein refers to the god of Spinoza he implies that the concept of god takes on the attributes that the perception of god gives it and that his own concept that reflects an impersonal and abstract god. Ironically, I believe Einstein eloquently points out that God blinks in and out of existence like an observable quantum particle or wave as each person conceives whatever god might or might not be .  The real catch in this  It is amazing to me that so many well educated, open minded, sincere seekers of empirical truth still argue about weather there is or there is not a god. Einstein is once again leagues ahead of so many as he writes this letter. He is not writing of existence here he is writing of concepts and more specifically the idea that an anthropomorphic god exists that has human attributes and interacts with humanity as one person would with another. He is right when he out that Judeo-Christian scripture is so redacted that any essential information they may have originally contained may be entirely missing. When Einstein refers to the god of Spinoza he implies that the concept of god takes on the attributes that the perception of god gives it and that his own concept that reflects an impersonal and abstract god. Ironically, I believe Einstein eloquently points out that God blinks in and out of existence like an observable quantum particle or wave as each person conceives whatever god might or might not be .  The real catch in this letter seems to be the refutation that any one group of human beings is chosen in any preselective way. Weather chosen for good or ill being chosen implies a kind of specialness and that can be perceived as superiority. Clearly, it is that tendency toward the human concept of what god is that Einstein warns against in this portion of his letter.  seems to be the refutation that any one group of human beings is chosen in any preselective way. Weather chosen for good or ill being chosen implies a kind of specialness and that can be perceived as superiority. Clearly, it is that tendency toward the human concept of what god is that Einstein warns against in this portion of his letter. 

 


JesusNEVERexisted
Superfan
JesusNEVERexisted's picture
Posts: 693
Joined: 2010-01-03
User is offlineOffline
So while Einstein wasn't a

So while Einstein wasn't a complete atheist he certainly seemed agnostic and the best part is he didn't believe in a Christian god!

Just like how Einstein said the Jewish religion is no better than any other I'm sure he would say there is no more proof of the Christian god than any other!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
Know your audience

After the basics of grammar and spelling the first rule is to know your audience.

Quote:
"but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."

While primitive and legend appear redundant it is a long rejected fallacy to assume our ancestors where childlike. Homer did not write for children. But the identification of the childish nature does in fact indicate the intended audience of the authors of these stories was children.
 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 3266
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
He's dead Jim. It doesn't

He's dead Jim. It doesn't matter any more.


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
So while Einstein wasn't a complete atheist he certainly seemed agnostic and the best part is he didn't believe in a Christian god!

Just like how Einstein said the Jewish religion is no better than any other I'm sure he would say there is no more proof of the Christian god than any other!

Pardon but his description as childish is not saying the OT religion is no better than. The very use of childish indicates his opinion is that it is inferior to other religions. And of course it is. We have plenty of examples of other religions confirming this.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

digitalbeachbum wrote:
He's dead Jim. It doesn't matter any more.

He may be dead but he lives on as do Honest Abe and Washington and the cherry tree.

A pacifist who makes exceptions isn't.

 

 

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 3266
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:
He's dead Jim. It doesn't matter any more.

He may be dead but he lives on as do Honest Abe and Washington and the cherry tree.

A pacifist who makes exceptions isn't.

The only thing that lives on his his mathematics and theories, every thing else is really opinion and pointless.

 

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
The bi question, treat2, is

The big question, treat2, is why does Einstein's possible atheism scare you so?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 3266
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
jcgadfly wrote:The big

jcgadfly wrote:

The big question, treat2, is why does Einstein's possible atheism scare you so?

Einstein rejected the label atheist, which he associated with certainty regarding God's nonexistence. Einstein stated: "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal god is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being." According to Prince Hubertus, Einstein said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."

http://books.google.com/books?id=6IKVA0lY6MAC&pg=PA516#v=onepage&q&f=false

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13759
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
It is a popular tactic for

It is a popular tactic for the theist to quote mine and twist the words of famous skeptics or questioners, even when we admit they did believe in some sort of god.

There is no way to claim Eintstien gave any lick of credibility to the claims of the Jewish god. He might have though of it as a quaint tradition at best, but childish in its fantastic claims.

But they do this with all sorts of famous people. Hawkins gets misquoted. Jefferson who believed in a deist generic god ALSO treated the bible as nothing but stories and Jesus as a mere man.

This is an evil tactic because it is used as a bait and switch. It ignores the attitude all of them ultimately had which was to value questioning, not to justify, but to verify.

To us it would not matter if "Einstien said he believed in the Jewish god." He still conveyed the attitude that it wouldn't matter what he claimed or personally believed, but what is credibly by independant verification.

Same with Jefferson. He valued more the bravery of inquery and skepticism no matter where it lead. He hated the idea that fear of being wrong should keep you stagnant in a position.

Being right in fact finding is not done through mining for justifications. Being right in fact finding means that a claim must have the shit kicked out of it through scrutiny and questioning. To all those I mentioned in this post, it was far more important to them to question and their personal beliefs were irrelevant to the value of testing something.

So the only way the theist can avoid this is to twist what they said so that they can go "therefor my pet god exists" Without acception those I mentioned would find this tactic vile, even Jefferson. Jefferson would say, "It doesn' matter what I think, it matters what I can prove".

In the case of Einstien, there is no dispute that he rejected the god of Abraham as a claim. This is a dead argument and has been reahashed over and over like roadkill.

In the case of Jefferson. his god would be at best, one that got the ball rolling, but was not the magic man of the bible.

In the case of Hawkins he has said "A god is not required".

Once you factor in that all of these people knew how to separate their opinions from what they could prove, and that the rigors of testing were ultimately what mattered, you take away this bait and switch tactic away from the dishonest people who mine for justificaition.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37