Male abortion

Cpt_pineapple
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Male abortion

With all the talk about abortion, the topics seem to focus on whether or not the woman wants the baby.

 

But what about the father?

 

 

What if, for example, the mother wants to keep it but the father does not? Should the father have to pay child support if he doesn't want it?

 

 

What if the mother wants to have an abortion and the father wants to keep it and is willing to take care of it?

 

 

 

 

 


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:What if,

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

What if, for example, the mother wants to keep it but the father does not? Should the father have to pay child support if he doesn't want it?

Mother trumphs Father. As for support, thats for the parents to decide, and failing that, the courts.

 

 

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

What if the mother wants to have an abortion and the father wants to keep it and is willing to take care of it?

 Mother trumps Father

 

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Cpt_pineapple wrote:What if,

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

What if, for example, the mother wants to keep it but the father does not? Should the father have to pay child support if he doesn't want it?

 

He should have pulled out or/and used some from of birth control.  Or had her sign some sort of legal documentation that stated he wouldn't pay child support if the unfortunate happened before they started their relations.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

What if the mother wants to have an abortion and the father wants to keep it and is willing to take care of it?

Mother has to carry the new organism and is the only support ~9 months.  This is her responsibility, it is her body.  Why should a man have any say as to what happens in her body?

Sounds made up...
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Magus wrote:Or had her sign

Magus wrote:

Or had her sign some sort of legal documentation that stated he wouldn't pay child support if the unfortunate happened before they started their relations.

That doesn't work. There have been cases in which people have tried this and the women later decided that they did want child support and courts made the man pay up. You can not write contracts that contradict pre-existing law. So you can't exempt yourself from child support laws through contracts with the mother.

How about this though: change child support laws so that if the father advocates abortion and the mother refuses, he is exempted from child support. That way if the woman wants to keep a child against his will, she'll be doing it without his financial backing.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
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Jormungander...How about

Jormungander...How about this though: change child support laws so that if the father advocates abortion and the mother refuses, he is exempted from child support. ...[/quote wrote:

I'm inclined to agree that this is an equitable and
ethical arrangement.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: What

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

What if, for example, the mother wants to keep it but the father does not? Should the father have to pay child support if he doesn't want it?

Yes. It should be no surprise to any sexually active person (at least in the western world) that sex makes babies. This is why abstinence-only sex education is so ridiculous. If a female is properly using a birth control pill and a male is properly using a condom, the chances of conception are negligible. Therefore, no abortion required.

 

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

What if the mother wants to have an abortion and the father wants to keep it and is willing to take care of it?

Of the four possible combinations of parental reaction to a pregnancy (both parents want, mom wants dad doesn't, dad wants mom doesn't, neither wants) this one is probably the least frequent.

But if this is the case, the woman still gets to choose. She's the only one who has the equipment for gestation and birth. And many a man has said he'll help take care of a baby, only to bail once the screaming ball of fury arrives. Even if he signed a contract saying he'd take care of it, he could still bail.

 

 

 

 

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Jormungander wrote:How about

Jormungander wrote:

How about this though: change child support laws so that if the father advocates abortion and the mother refuses, he is exempted from child support. That way if the woman wants to keep a child against his will, she'll be doing it without his financial backing.

are you kidding?  it took two to get in that situation in the first place...


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I actually agree with

I actually agree with Jormungander.

 

 

 

 

geirj wrote:

 

Yes. It should be no surprise to any sexually active person (at least in the western world) that sex makes babies. This is why abstinence-only sex education is so ridiculous. If a female is properly using a birth control pill and a male is properly using a condom, the chances of conception are negligible. Therefore, no abortion required.

 

 

 

Couldn't that same logic be applied to an argument against abortion?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Magus wrote:He should have

Magus wrote:

He should have pulled out or/and used some from of birth control. 

The ultimate easier said than done statement.

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Cpt_pineapple wrote:geirj

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

geirj wrote:

Yes. It should be no surprise to any sexually active person (at least in the western world) that sex makes babies. This is why abstinence-only sex education is so ridiculous. If a female is properly using a birth control pill and a male is properly using a condom, the chances of conception are negligible. Therefore, no abortion required.

Couldn't that same logic be applied to an argument against abortion? 

The fact that with proper pre-emptive measures it's unlikely to be needed? What does that have to do with it?


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

Couldn't that same logic be applied to an argument against abortion?

 

In what way?

 

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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geirj wrote:Cpt_pineapple

geirj wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

Couldn't that same logic be applied to an argument against abortion?

 

In what way?

 

 

Maybe I read it the wrong way, but I read it as "you should have though of it"

 

But anyway, there are enough abortion topics on the board.

 

 

 

 


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Sodomy doesn't get anyone pregnant.


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ClockCat wrote:

Sodomy doesn't get anyone pregnant.

      It does indeed avoid children but it still sounds like a lifetime pain in the ass.

 

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Cpt_pineapple wrote:Male Abortion

 Abortion would be mandatory if males got pregnant,and we would still be overpopulated. We should all be glad to live in a country that allows abortion's. There are way to many children as it is that are not wanted,having an abortion is always the woman choice.

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The Doomed Soul wrote:Mother

The Doomed Soul wrote:
Mother trumps Father

I agree with Jormungander, but uuuuhhhh, this just sums up the whole issue in our court system.

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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 One of the things that put

 One of the things that put me onto studying human instinct was vasectomies.  Just for shits and giggles, next time you're in a room with a bunch of men, ask them what they think of vasectomies.  Most of the men will agree that they're a great idea if you don't want kids.  Once you've established that, ask the men who've already had kids, or who lead a swinging bachelor lifestyle, or whatever, if they have one themselves, or are planning to get one.

You know the response, of course.  Even men who know for sure they don't want kids have a very deep seated aversion to having a vasectomy.  They can't really explain it.  It just is.  

It's really quite silly to not get one.  (And yes, I have had one.)  You can get a hundred men to swear on all that's holy that everything will be alright afterwards, and that all the plumbing will work just like it did before, and so forth, and men still don't want to do it.  I wonder sometimes how many people in the world are alive because of an "oops" that could have been avoided if their dad had just gotten snipped when he knew he didn't want (any more) children.

Anyway, to respond somewhat to the OP, I had a scare a few years ago with a girl who said she was on the pill.  I came to doubt her honesty, and it turns out, she really, really, really wanted to have a baby, and was lying to me.  Luckily, I got wise to what she was doing and didn't knock her up.  I realized at that time that as long as there was the potential for me to accidentally get someone pregnant, that I was not in control of my own destiny.  The fact is, it's a woman's body, and in the end, a man should not be able to force a woman to have an abortion.  Children cost money.  If the government pays for children, you pay for children.  There's no getting around it.  Somebody's got to pay, and the sperm donor is the most obvious first choice.

In other words, my opinion is that men have control of their own sperm.  If they don't want to pay for a baby, they should either get a vasectomy, wear a condom, carry spermicidal foam in their back pocket, or whatever else they need to do to keep their sperm out of any wandering eggs.  Vasectomies, while not 100% effective (they do fail, occasionally), are far and away the best option for men who don't want babies.

 

 

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I believe the invention of a

I believe the invention of a condom, came about when a man realised, that being a eunik was a terrible idea...

 

Apperantly, this mans invention still has not made it onto the main stream market

 

BAD HAMBY! your supposed to discuss such measures infront of the Council of Men first!

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I would think that it's due

I would think that it's due to guys aversion to anything near their nuts, ever watch America's Funniest Videos?

 

 

 


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Well, as I see matters,

Well, as I see matters, there are a few possibilities. However, before I get onto those, let me state that I am in favor of men being able to have abortions when they decide to have them. All that they need to do is get pregnant and then we will be having a proper discussion over this idea.

 

To my mind, it is of little importance whether it is the state or the father who is making the call. If a woman can be forced to carry a child that she does not want, then there is a form of slavery going on here.

 

Granted that Christians have strange ideas about reproduction. However, a different society that had different strange ideas about reproduction could, in theory, require mandatory defloration after a girl's first period. Would that be any better than disallowing abortion? I tend to think not.

 

So this brings us to the question of: “if the potential father wanted the potential mother to have an abortion, could he force her to do so”?

 

That is a much harder question. One point is that it takes both people to get into the situation. The woman chose to take the dick with no pills or condoms involved. If the woman does not want to engage in reproduction slavery, then she should be willing to take reasonable measures to avoid the situation. On that point, she probably should be willing to take the responsibility on herself and forget child support.

 

However, it does take two people to start the situation. So the potential father could have used a rubber. Or he may have taken the woman's word at faith that reproduction was not going to happen.

 

Honestly, I think that this needs to be decided on a case by case basis.

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on a darker note... If a

on a darker note...

 

If a man really wanted an abortion, i suggest he check his regions laws, to figure out if a good swift cunt punt will land him with a murder charge, or just assault >.>

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 There are plenty of

 There are plenty of natural abortifacients that can be slipped surreptitiously in the breakfast oatmeal.  Of course, you still need to check your local laws.  It's going to be illegal, to be certain.  The question is how illegal.  The thing is, you at least avoid the tagged on assault and battery charge.

And no, I'm not going to tell you any of them because I think doing such a thing is pretty rotten.  Like I said... vasectomy is the ultimate cure for needing abortions.

 

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Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I would think that it's due to guys aversion to anything near their nuts, ever watch America's Funniest Videos?

 

 

 

 

I don't have any such aversion. I promise.

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Magus wrote: Cpt_pineapple

Magus wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

What if, for example, the mother wants to keep it but the father does not? Should the father have to pay child support if he doesn't want it?

 

He should have pulled out or/and used some from of birth control.  Or had her sign some sort of legal documentation that stated he wouldn't pay child support if the unfortunate happened before they started their relations.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

What if the mother wants to have an abortion and the father wants to keep it and is willing to take care of it?

Mother has to carry the new organism and is the only support ~9 months.  This is her responsibility, it is her body.  Why should a man have any say as to what happens in her body?

I find the hypocrisy disturbing. On one hand, the man is being held 100% responsible for pre-conception birth control or else he is court mandated to support the child for 18-26 years (because, statistically, he has a 7% chance of gaining custody if he seeks it). Yet the woman is entitled to post conception choices the man isn't, and she is solely entitled to those choices simply because she has 9 months of support?

 

Now, that said, I don't think a man should have the right to enforce a pregnancy, nor to force an abortion. But I believe he should have the right to "abort" his responsibilities and obligations, so long as it is done in time to allow the woman to make an informed choice for her future. Again hypocrisy rears its head when women cry "why should a man be able to shirk his responsibility?", the answer obviously is, because woman also has that choice. the question "why should a woman be required to shoulder the responsibility alone?" to which the answer is, because she made that choice, knowing full well the man had aborted his responsibilities. if a man aborts his fatherhood, the woman still has the choice to abort herself or adoption, leaving her with no responsibility as well. Why is it that a woman is legally and morally entitled to enforce , without his choice, an 18-26 year financial obligation (which is inherently biased against men), equivalent to extortion, onto a man for an act that she is equally responsible for, but has post conception options, yet, it is somehow unreadable for a man to absolve himself of the obligation (as the woman can choose to), leaving the woman still having a choice

 

shelleymtjoy wrote:

are you kidding?  it took two to get in that situation in the first place...

Why then does only one get a choice regarding their future? if both are responsible for the situation, both should be given equal choice for their respective futures.

butterbattle wrote:

The Doomed Soul wrote:
Mother trumps Father

I agree with Jormungander, but uuuuhhhh, this just sums up the whole issue in our court system.

 

It also demonstrates clear female chauvinism (look it up)

Hambydammit wrote:

In other words, my opinion is that men have control of their own sperm.  If they don't want to pay for a baby, they should either get a vasectomy, wear a condom, carry spermicidal foam in their back pocket, or whatever else they need to do to keep their sperm out of any wandering eggs.  Vasectomies, while not 100% effective (they do fail, occasionally), are far and away the best option for men who don't want babies.

 

In otherwords, surgery and self-mutilation is the best equivalent solution to what is inherently granted to woman by legal right to abort? and still isn't 100%, by your own admission. Seems a little one sided.

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
 

To my mind, it is of little importance whether it is the state or the father who is making the call. If a woman can be forced to carry a child that she does not want, then there is a form of slavery going on here.

 

is 26 years of effective wage slavery not also slavery? is it acceptable because men are the victims?

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
 

So this brings us to the question of: “if the potential father wanted the potential mother to have an abortion, could he force her to do so”?

 

not the issue at hand. No-one is advocating forcing the woman to have an abortion, they are advocating the man absolving himself of any rights or responsibilities to the child, early enough in the pregnancy to allow the woman to decide if she wish's to abort herself (or give to adoption if she opposes abortion) or if she will choose to keep the child knowing full well that support from the father will not be an option. no choice is being denied from the mother, instead, a post conception choice would ALSO be given to the father, granting a shift towards equity (men still wouldn't have the choice to keep a child against the wish's of the woman, but at least he wouldn't be forced to keep a child he himself didn't want, you know, the thing you decree as slavery when applied to women but "expected" when applied to men).