Religion in public policy

BostonRedSox
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Religion in public policy

I'm just curious.   Because quite honestly, there is really nothing else for atheists to bitch about besides religious views being made into laws.  Things like terrorist attacks are isolated incidents and the crimes of religion like the Salem Witch Trials happened many years ago and there's no real chance of that happening again today.  Moreover, many of the wars that have supposedly been in the name of religion actually had less to do with religion and more to do with property.  So you really can't indict religion today for these reasons.

My question is:  Exactly which laws in effect today are directly based on religious views?  The only ones that I can think of are laws against homosexual marriages and these are only state laws, not federal laws.

By the way, if you are going to respond, you need to give me a citation of the specific statute.   Otherwise, I am going to assume that you are just making it up. 

 


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BostonRedSox wrote:"Theism

BostonRedSox wrote:

"Theism is why we can't have nice things."

Like a penis in your anal cavity?

Like AIDS?

Like talking with a lisp?

Like wearing rainbow colored speedos?

 

No, more like a debate without someone getting pissy when they are wrong, resulting in them spewing hatred instead of educated ideas. Like those nice things.

Are you matshizzles uncle?

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence." - Bertrand Russell

Stewie: Yay and God said to Abraham, "you will kill your son, Issak", and Abraham said, I can't hear you, you'll have to speak into the microphone." "Oh I'm sorry, Is this better? Check, check, check... Jerry, pull the high end out, I'm still getting some hiss back here."


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BostonRedSox wrote: Let's

BostonRedSox wrote:

 

Let's remove the sex and add rationality into animals.  You think it is okay for a man to marry a dog?

 

 

Or, let's assume that christians care about the rights of others. You can assume anything you want but it's not the reality.

''Black Holes result from God dividing the universe by zero.''


BostonRedSox
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ClockCat wrote:Enjoy the

ClockCat wrote:

Enjoy the ride, bigot. Smiling

Then you're bigoted towards Christians.

The problems with gay marriages aren't strictly religious:

http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html

Read up.


Tapey
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BostonRedSox wrote:Tapey

BostonRedSox wrote:

Tapey wrote:

there are moral reasons why they are not allowed to marry pets. Its called animal abuse as marrage has a sexual componant. Also an animal cannot agree to get married.

Let's remove the sex and add rationality into animals.  You think it is okay for a man to marry a dog?

lol you are removing this from how they are to get the answer you want out of me? really come on. This is not how things are so it i irrelivant

 

BostonRedSox wrote:

Quote:
And about multiple wives... im fine with that, btw my president has three of them. But by the same token multipile husbands would also have to be allowed. Aslong as everything is above board e.g. no child abuse. although i would put the stipulation that everyone has to be fine with it including current wives. I see nothing wrong with it.

You are positing some moral absolutes (no abuse, consent, etc.)  I'm curious to know what your basis is for these universal moral rules.

they are called laws. basically what i am saying is i dont have any probem with multiple wives or husbands.

 

 

Abuse is common in this senario of multiple wives etc. so i am saying as long as they follow  abuse and consent laws it is fine.

btw im curious why do you take this thread off topic?

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


Tapey
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BostonRedSox wrote:ClockCat

BostonRedSox wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

Enjoy the ride, bigot. Smiling

Then you're bigoted towards Christians.

The problems with gay marriages aren't strictly religious:

http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html

Read up.

 

Just a snip fom the link

Quote:
The Bible alone, however, does not have to be used to demonstrate this understanding of marriage. The biblical viewpoint of marriage has been the universal understanding of marriage in every human civilization in world history. History argues against gay marriage.

sounds alot like slavery to me. From a historical view point sound ok really after all it was lke that for a long time. 

 

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


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BostonRedSox wrote:ClockCat

BostonRedSox wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

Enjoy the ride, bigot. Smiling

Then you're bigoted towards Christians.

The problems with gay marriages aren't strictly religious:

http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html

Read up.

 

Oh, okay. It's religion and irrational fear, caused by the religion.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

 

So the Netherlands have had it legal since 2001. Six other countries have made it legal since then, all doing fabulously well.

 

 

But hey, none of that matters to you right? A contract between two consenting individuals that does not involve you, somehow offends you! Well, not everyone believes or follows your religion, and not everyone is a bigoted prick that wants other people to have lesser rights.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


BostonRedSox
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ClockCat wrote:But hey, none

ClockCat wrote:

But hey, none of that matters to you right? A contract between two consenting individuals that does not involve you, somehow offends you! Well, not everyone believes or follows your religion, and not everyone is a bigoted prick that wants other people to have lesser rights.

I believe that if we can find a way to identify homosexuals early in their childhood, that we should set up special schools where we set them straight.  

Or maybe a doctor could invent some pill that will increase arousal around the opposite sex.


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:3

BostonRedSox wrote:

Anyway, all these points are moot.  We are not going to change the meanings of words just because a few fudge-packers whine and complain.

 

This is the #1 definition of "marriage":

"The social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc."

dictionary.com

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marriage

 

1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b: the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage

2: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected ; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities

3: an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry — J. T. Shawcross>

 

 

I bet you think open marriages are bad too, but they are legal and have always been popular through history.

http://marriage.about.com/od/lifestylechoices/g/openmarriage.htm

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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:o

BostonRedSox wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

But hey, none of that matters to you right? A contract between two consenting individuals that does not involve you, somehow offends you! Well, not everyone believes or follows your religion, and not everyone is a bigoted prick that wants other people to have lesser rights.

I believe that if we can find a way to identify homosexuals early in their childhood, that we should set up special schools where we set them straight.  

Or maybe a doctor could invent some pill that will increase arousal around the opposite sex.

 

Wow. Just wow.

 

You know what? You are really an abomination of humanity. Good job at that.

 

 

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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BostonRedSox wrote:"Theism

BostonRedSox wrote:

"Theism is why we can't have nice things."

Like a penis in your anal cavity?

Like AIDS?

Like talking with a lisp?

Like wearing rainbow colored speedos?

 

I think you're a closet case.

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


BostonRedSox
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ClockCat wrote:Wow. Just

ClockCat wrote:

Wow. Just wow.

You know what? You are really an abomination of humanity. Good job at that.

FAGGOT FAGGOT FAGGOT


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BostonRedSox

Another parody site ! Thanks for the link, man. This stuff is hilarious. 

Check out the related links. I never even knew there was a gay couple in the bible

http://www.gotquestions.org/David-and-Jonathan.html


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:3

BostonRedSox wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

Wow. Just wow.

You know what? You are really an abomination of humanity. Good job at that.

FAGGOT FAGGOT FAGGOT

 

How sweet. You are thinking of me.

 

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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BostonRedSox wrote:FAGGOT

BostonRedSox wrote:
FAGGOT FAGGOT FAGGOT

Someone needs a hug.


latincanuck
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California

Christian majority pushed their views into law against gays getting married, not that the law itself is religious per se as it doesn't have religious tone as say commanded by god, but that people that put the law into effect were using their religious views on it. As well your defintion of marriage, well that's just one defintion, here is another from wikipedia

Marriage is a social, religious,spiritual, or legal union of individuals. This union may also be called matrimony, while the ceremony that marks its beginning is usually called a wedding and the married status created is sometimes called wedlock.

Nothing stating there about man and woman, here is another one from webster dictionary

1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage

So it really depends on which dictionary your gonna use, now of course you can change the rules to your OP if you like, however we can bitch all we like, if it wasn't for people bitching homosexuality would still be illegal, slavery would be legal (which it is in some middle eastern and african countries, women could not vote, inter-racial marriages would not be legal, and WHOLE bunch of out dated laws would still be in effect today. People of non-religous beliefs can and have been fired from their work, been harrassed, been socially isolated, and at one point in history (1990's it was) a president of the USA that believes that the US is one of worlds free countries and that has freedom of speech for all, stated that atheist should not be considered as US citizens. WOW, imagine now if there wasn't people the could fight against such thinking, people just because they don't believe in a god could not be considered Citizens and have no protection legally from people harrasing them, the law putting them in jail etc, etc, etc. So yeah people of all groups and of all beliefs or lack of, have the right to bitch about whatever the fuck they want. You don't like it, to fucking bad.

As well beastiality and homosexuality are not even in the same boat, the animal cannot consent to sex nor to marriage, so your moronic statement has been noted. As for the mormons again, it's due to religious views, and all cases the women cannot have multiple husbands, if they could and it wasn't due to the fact of religious pressures, then go right ahead have  multiple wives and husbands, again I don't personally care as long as they follow the law of the land and do it among consenting adults. With that said the abuse is also high in mormon multiple marriages as well as abuse of children, if this wasn't the case then go right ahead, if it was legal in the state they reside in, if not, try to change it legally.

So far every group has the right to bitch about the laws and about society as a whole, christians do, muslims do, jews do, atheists do, humanists do, liberals, conservatives, communists, capitalists, socialists all complain about laws and society, it's the law abiding right to do so.

As for the stem cell research funding laws, umm last time I checked bush used his veto power against the bill for stem cell research, using the who pro-life arugment, of course this wasn't due to his religious views at all right? I mean this wasn't the same president that stated that he asked god want to do regarding Iraq and then invaded it? no it wasn't Bush and his allies in the religious right that opposed public funds stem cell research at all. Oh and a majority of people polled regarding this, actually where against Bush on this one, you can do the research on that if you like.

Oh and if you still don't believe that atheists don't have a right to bitch about religion, well here is something more you should read, http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml regarding bush and his reasoning to invade afghanistan and iraq, here is the statement

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

If you don't like that one, here is this one from the New York times http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html but hey  atheists have no right to bitch about anything. Your a fucking moron if you believe that.


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Ya know, as a native

Ya know, as a native Californian (not living there currently), I am INCREDIBLY angry at my state for Prop. 8. I'm even more angry at supposedly 'moral' theists who backed the anti-prop 8 campaign and won. Why? Was it through objective knowledge that a society where gay people can legally marry, with the same rights and priveleges as hetero people, will inadvertently lead toward social disaster? Or was it only through fear, bigotry and subjective dislike masquerading as inviolate laws of god?

Crazy thought, but I think it's the latter. And it really pisses me off that people like me- who are, believe it or not, generally content to let people believe whatever wacky shit they want to believe- have to stop prejudiced fucknuts like yourself from fucking up the world and sending us back decades, if not centuries, based on what you see as the absolutely best rules ever invented by human beings. Yes, the rules were invented. If they were inviolate, there wouldn't have been so many of them in abeyance currently.

So, in short, go back to your churches. Pray in your homes, in your bedrooms and secret places, and keep your personal preferences the FUCK out of the public sphere.

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If you don't believe your non-belief then you don't believe and you must not be an atheist.


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BostonRedSox wrote:ClockCat

BostonRedSox wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

But hey, none of that matters to you right? A contract between two consenting individuals that does not involve you, somehow offends you! Well, not everyone believes or follows your religion, and not everyone is a bigoted prick that wants other people to have lesser rights.

I believe that if we can find a way to identify homosexuals early in their childhood, that we should set up special schools where we set them straight.  

Or maybe a doctor could invent some pill that will increase arousal around the opposite sex.

Hmm, I don't know if I should laugh at how retartedly bigoted he is or be shocked at the fact that if this guy would be president, he'd actually propose this.

''Black Holes result from God dividing the universe by zero.''


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For posterity's sake... No

For posterity's sake...

No sack of shit could be this dumb.

I'm not biting.


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:3


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BostonRedSox wrote:Let's

BostonRedSox wrote:

Let's remove the sex and add rationality into animals.  You think it is okay for a man to marry a dog?

Ah, the slippery-slope.

The dog cannot consent to it. It cannot sign the marriage contract.

Just FYI, yes, I am disgusted by the thought of a man having sex with an animal, but it does not factor into my position. Being sentient, I have the ability to overcome my conscience and so do you.  

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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ClockCat wrote:*Vid on why I

ClockCat wrote:

*Vid on why I should ban same sex marriage*

 

 

I swear, you guys are going to make me snap a rib one of these days.

Damn, that was priceless.

 

I'm totally convinced. Same sex marriage must be banned, for the sake of potato patches everywhere!!!

Sticking out tongue

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


BostonRedSox
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ClockCat wrote:What, you

ClockCat wrote:

What, you want me to pull up bible verses the christians that disagree with you use now? Kay. Your disagreement doesn't make them any less christian though. Smiling After all, they have more faith(tm) than you!

James 5:14-15 (King James Version)

 

 14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

 15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Mark 16:18 (King James Version)

 

 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Matthew 21:22 (King James Version)

 

 22And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

John 15:7 (King James Version)

 

 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

I can't believe I missed this.

So which one of those passages says that a Christian ought not seek medical help from a hospital and just rely on faith healing?


BostonRedSox
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butterbattle wrote:Ah, the

buttergook wrote:

Ah, the slippery-slope.

The dog cannot consent to it. It cannot sign the marriage contract.

Just FYI, yes, I am disgusted by the thought of a man having sex with an animal, but it does not factor into my position. Being sentient, I have the ability to overcome my conscience and so do you.  

Yet the idea of eating a dog doesn't disgust you, does it?


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BostonRedSox wrote:ClockCat

BostonRedSox wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

What, you want me to pull up bible verses the christians that disagree with you use now? Kay. Your disagreement doesn't make them any less christian though. Smiling After all, they have more faith(tm) than you!

James 5:14-15 (King James Version)

 

 14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

 15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Mark 16:18 (King James Version)

 

 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Matthew 21:22 (King James Version)

 

 22And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

John 15:7 (King James Version)

 

 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

I can't believe I missed this.

So which one of those passages says that a Christian ought not seek medical help from a hospital and just rely on faith healing?

Well, you crazy christians usually use all of the ones I listed to say "faith heals" so you, as a "good christian" wouldn't need anything else.

Do you not have enough faith? Here, play with some snakes.

Oh. Cafateria christians don't trust their god. Thats right.

Well, you can argue with the other christians on who is the "true christian".

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


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BostonRedSox wrote:ClockCat

BostonRedSox wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

What, you want me to pull up bible verses the christians that disagree with you use now? Kay. Your disagreement doesn't make them any less christian though. Smiling After all, they have more faith(tm) than you!

James 5:14-15 (King James Version)

 

 14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

 15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Mark 16:18 (King James Version)

 

 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Matthew 21:22 (King James Version)

 

 22And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

John 15:7 (King James Version)

 

 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

I can't believe I missed this.

So which one of those passages says that a Christian ought not seek medical help from a hospital and just rely on faith healing?

They do rather strongly imply that a Christian should never need anything more than faith to heal them.

That straightforward interpretation has lead to people dying from medically treatable conditions. Faith kills.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

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ClockCat wrote: Well, you

ClockCat wrote:
Well, you crazy christians usually use all of the ones I listed to say "faith heals" so you, as a "good christian" wouldn't need anything else. Do you not have enough faith? Here, play with some snakes. Oh. Cafateria christians don't trust their god. Thats right. Well, you can argue with the other christians on who is the "true christian".

'Here, play with some snakes.' Love it!

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If you don't believe your non-belief then you don't believe and you must not be an atheist.


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BostonRedSox

BostonRedSox wrote:

buttergook wrote:

Ah, the slippery-slope.

The dog cannot consent to it. It cannot sign the marriage contract.

Just FYI, yes, I am disgusted by the thought of a man having sex with an animal, but it does not factor into my position. Being sentient, I have the ability to overcome my conscience and so do you.  

Yet the idea of eating a dog doesn't disgust you, does it?

Huh?

Oh, *slaps foreheard*, because I'm asian right?

Well, I've never eaten dog before, but I guess some members of the canidae family might be juicy.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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WTF?!? Second insult to BB

WTF?!? Second insult to BB that I've seen... damn.

BRS is some kinda wizard, I tell ya.