What is cheating?
Offline What do you think about steroids in baseball and other sports?
Why do people care if an athlete is strong because of steroids or because of genetics?
If science could make people big and strong safely, would this be OK? Must it only be genetics, diet and exercise(the old fashioned way) that is not cheating?
What if an athlete could get strong without hard training. What if they could get strong through a combination of stem cells, growth hormones and muscle stimulant, without effort? Is that not cheating?
What products can an athlete use that is not cheating, and what should be considered cheating?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Actually, I think this is a pretty good question. Or perhaps just, "Why is taking steroids considered cheating?"
I honestly don't really have an opinion on it, but I'd love to hear arguments from either side of the proverbial fence.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
Is it something like changing
someone's post?
As somebody who participated in sports during childhood [Soccor, Karate, Gymnastics, swimming], I would argue that the effort required to compete at these activities brings finesse to the sport. If somebody took a shortcut, that would undermine it. Which frankly is why I quit many of those activities.
I think it being ruled as that is more just an attempt to protect the athletes.
A lot of performance enhancing things are allowed, but some of them pose a danger to the health of the athletes. They go for every edge they can, so for the health of the sport you have to ban things that would harm the participants for performance gain, so that everyone is not using them and end up on news channels 20 years later giving extremely depressing PR about the sport now that they are suffering from longterm effects of drugs they were "forced" into taking to keep up.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
It all comes down to where the line is drawn. If you go outside the established rules (no matter how arbitrary), you are cheating. It's that simple.
I really don't give a fuck if they use steroids or not, but no one can make a serious argument that steroids are not an advantage against those that don't juice. If regulations forbid steroids and you use them anyway you are cheating.
If regulations don't rule it out, you are within your rights to use what ever it happens to be. If the officials don't like it they have to create new rules to exclude the unwanted behavior.
I really don't see how this is a complicated issue. When you participate in a sport professionally, you are subject to it's rules weather you agree with them or not. It's like any other job. If your boss tells you to do something, you do it. If your boss tells you not to do something, you don't do it.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
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Take 2 young children who decide to play the piano - they start at the same time, practice the same amount, have the same teacher...
Child 1 struggles with basic scales and rythym ~ child 2 moves through these exercises with little to no problem, they have that "IT" required to succeed at learning the instrument.
After about 3 months of lessons child 1 gives up and quits piano as child 2 continues to move through the lessons of progressive difficulty as if it is natural to him/her.
Same could be said about athletes - some have that "IT" some don't, no matter how hard they practice. With the $$$ involved in professional sports, it doesn't surprise me that performance enhancement drugs are used.
We would be hard pressed to find a pianist taking drugs to enhance their playing ability but a rocker on cocaine can last quite a bit longer through their bands' set...
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Cheating is breaking the rules of a competition regardless if they are good or bad rules.
A drug /technology enhanced athletics competition would certainly be an interesting sport it wouldnt be a very ethical one as the athletes would have to seriously compromise their health to win.
Now if you are libertarian you won't see any problem with that as they choose to accept the risks, me I strongly believe in society (for Americans government) protecting individuals from themselves and from others offering immoral choices
So it's only cheating if it's done without effort? But people that are fast, big and tall is mostly a function of genetics and not effort. The next thing that is coming is stem cells to grow muscles:
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/stem-cell-transplantation-prompts-muscle-growth-in-mice-with-muscular-dystrophy_10013631.html
This may be undetectable in any test for 'cheating'.
What if you have rich parents and they buy you a personal coach and very good equipment to train. Why is that not cheating against the poor kids that couldn't afford this? Aren't they taking a short cut?
My sister held her sons back a year so they'd be older than the kids they competed against. Is that cheating?
What if the parents got growth hormone so their kid would be good at sports like basketball. Maybe it's bad judgement if it could do harm. What if they went to Mexico and found a competent doctor so the risk was low? Is it cheating?
To me, people have a strange notion about what is cheating and what is not. Somehow things that are 'natural' are OK and others not. Where does this notion about 'fair' competition in sports and other endeavors come from? Why doesn't just winning matter?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
That's sort of what my initial reaction was... but then, contact sports don't exactly ban limb-dismantling bodychecks or tackles, and the organizations don't ban players from drinking or smoking, so once again we seem to be back at square one:
Why the special exception for steroids?
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
Girls are naturally flexable. Yet, I still had to work to do gymnastics. Genetics can only give you the potiental to do good.
No, they still have to put in the effort to acheive a certain skill level.
Yes, and rather unethical too.
Whether or not it's safe and has a low risk is irrelavent to whether it's cheating or not.
That is frequently what they use to determine the rules though. Steroid use wasn't a big deal until everyone was forced to use it, and the athletes were suffering for it. It put a very negative stigma on everyone involved, creating tragedies for people to watch.
If it doesn't harm the athletes, they probably won't care. If it ends up hurting the sport as a whole, they will ban it.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Actually the whole professional sport is simply wrong. Those people are walking a thin line and many will pay a price later in life.
As for steroids, if it wouldn't be harmful to the health, then I'd say it shouldn't be banned.
Actually the whole professional sport is simply wrong. Those people are walking a thin line and many will pay a price later in life.
As for steroids, if it wouldn't be harmful to the health, then I'd say it shouldn't be banned.
I am not a girl, but I am naturally flexable. I have not had to do any stretching to do the splits among other things, so how is that only potiental and not the talent?
Sounds made up...
Agnostic Atheist
No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.
So can I, most girls can, but I still fell flat on my face plenty of times. I didn't do it for very long, but it would have required considerable effort before I would have improved.
But you give no reason why it's cheating if genetics gives you an edge or science or your age. Why is getting an edge from genetics, good coaching, equipment sacred but other means are not? Why is something cheating? Steroids may be bad because there dangerous, but why are they cheating?
Where are the rules for deciding what is cheating?
Parents aren't breaking any rules holding their kids back. Is something only cheating if there is a rule against it? Why?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Would amphetamines be cheating?
Well the people that claim that cheating exists never provide a definition of cheating or a set of rational rules one should follow to determine if an action is 'cheating'.
So, I've concluded that 'cheating' is all pretty arbitrary base on one's feelings, kind of like morality.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
The problem with your argument is that games and sports have predefined rules of play, morality doesn't. Any action outside the rules of play is cheating.
I don't see why this is so complicated.
Take chess for example. The knight moves within a set of predefined choices.
Is there a reason? Not really. He could have had a different set of options.
Is it arbitrary? Yes. See above.
Is it cheating to move the knight in any other manner? Yes. Regardless of the knights movement being arbitrary, it is still part of the predefined and agreed upon rules.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
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