Hey guys, new to the forums!

achillease
Posts: 4
Joined: 2009-04-23
User is offlineOffline
Hey guys, new to the forums!

Hey guys, what's up? Known about the site for a while but have never really ventured here before. Decided I'd jump aboard, and see how she sways on this side of the interseas!

Anyway, reasons for being here aren't entirely greetings based. =)

I have been seeing a girl now for a while, we're in love. Blah blah blah long story short: she's a christian, used to be quite a strong one(glossolalia and the like). Anyhow, things are cool and all, but I'm a bit worried about how they may turn out in the future as a result of our differing opinions on the subject and have decided I would like to try and challenge her beliefs.

While I feel confident when it comes to actual discussion, I am finding it hard to think of a way to very gently make her think/question/enter discussion about. I don't want to seem hostile, I want it to feel like the questions are entirely from her won thought processes; while this may be an ideal scenario, I believe you understand what I'm asking.

Any advice? All is welcome! And, again, greetings! =)

 

p.s. Apologies if this is in the wrong forum.

 


Renee Obsidianwords
High Level DonorModeratorRRS local affiliate
Renee Obsidianwords's picture
Posts: 1388
Joined: 2007-03-29
User is offlineOffline
Welcome to the forums!I am

Welcome to the forums!

I am assuming she has brought religion up before (this is how you know her beliefs) Did you let her know you are atheist? How did she react?

Have you ever heard the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
That may come off as 'turning a blind eye' but if you love her and she you why ruin that?
A couple things to consider - *how would you raise your kids with regards to religion(if you plan on having any)  *would you make your atheism known to her family?

There are several members on here who are married to someone that holds a belief in a god. Hopefully they will have some insight.

Good luck!

Slowly building a blog at ~

http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/


achillease
Posts: 4
Joined: 2009-04-23
User is offlineOffline
 Hi Renee!Indeed, she does

 Hi Renee!

Indeed, she does know I'm an atheist. She doesn't have a problem with it herself, she still loves me. If it were to be left at that, then I wouldn't be even considering trying persuade her opions toward being congruent of mine.

However, there are several issues which have arisen, one which I believe will be a source of contention later on(should it get to that point.) The issues we've discusses so far:

1) Marriage. Initially I voiced my opinion that I feel the ceremony is unimportant to a lifelong relationship; this - as you can imagine - was not what she wanted to hear, asked me If I could think about my position on it. I did think about it, and informed her that I could get married to someone who found it important - important to someone I love, important to me - and that I never meant marriage was completely out of the question, just that I felt it unimportant.

I also expressed my distaste for a religious wedding, I mean, people that would damn me to hell would be giving blessing to a part of my life! However, I aquiesced on this point, as I felt it really didn't matter that much to me.

Thing is, after explaining and satisfying her on both points she didn't express any guilt or sadness in the compromises I have said I would make. She is not inherently selfish, I believe her faith has clouded her judgment.

2) She would rather a certain pair of grandparents not find out about my beliefs(even though they would eventually, it's inevitable), as they would not be particularly happy: they make comments about her piercings, dying her hair etc. This discussion came about after telling her about my mother askings me to keep my thoughts quiet for my grandparents sake. I told her I would wish she not do the same to me - keep me silent - but she went ahed and expressed her fear. Again, I aquiesced; again, there was merely relief from her side, no words of sorry to me. I believe her faith has once again clouded her judgement.

3) While it may seem I have aquiesced a lot, and probably shouldn't have, it was for a reason. Kids. If it ever got to that stage, I would like my kids to have no in-depth religious teachings provided to them, just basic instructions on all major beliefs so that they may better understand their peers. This was briefly mentioned, and she wasn't entirely happy. Hasn't been mentioned since.

She has gay friends, but does not believe they should be married, and does not think they will get to heaven. She believes I am going to hell, doesn't think she can change my mind, but still loves me. She used to be very religious, but does not go to church anymore other than holidays and has said more than once she believes christians to be hypocrites.

She gets stressed quite easily. I think the obvious dissonance could be a major part of it.

I don't think it would make sense to just leave it, I could be wrong though, which is why I'm asking for your perspective =)


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964976
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
glossolalia can now be

glossolalia can now be overcome with a 10 to 14 day 400mg dose of Avelox.

Ok. Stuff like life changing decisions and you're asking dummies on the Net?

I'm not saying anything more.
You got my best advice.


achillease
Posts: 4
Joined: 2009-04-23
User is offlineOffline
Well that was helpful. I'm

Well that was helpful. I'm simply asking for non confrontational ways I could approach my girlfriend to discuss the topic, I'm not going to go try every suggestion. If I find any of them to have any merit I will think about it logicaaly and how it would work in regards to the dynamic of our relationship.

I've never bothered trying to confront someone on their beliefs before, so I'm hoping someone has had past experience they can share.

Where exactly do you see any negatives in simply asking?


EXC
atheist
EXC's picture
Posts: 4108
Joined: 2008-01-17
User is offlineOffline
achillease wrote:She has gay

achillease wrote:

She has gay friends, but does not believe they should be married, and does not think they will get to heaven. She believes I am going to hell, doesn't think she can change my mind, but still loves me. She used to be very religious, but does not go to church anymore other than holidays and has said more than once she believes Christians to be hypocrites.

I'm assuming by Christian you mean she still loves God and Jesus or does she just fear them because they can send her to hell?

But don't you think it's strange that she would 'love' someone that would torture you and her gay friends just for being who you are and honest about what you believe? And why doesn't she believe she'll go to hell for premarital sex and dating a non-Christian since the bible prohibits this?

achillease wrote:
She gets stressed quite easily.

Yes, I've noticed that about Christians. Apparently, it's OK to go through life stressed out. God only gets really pissed about sex and not giving money.

Obviously the stress is about internal conflict. I don't think she really believes, but is confused thanks to fear and indoctrination. Her stress is just a manifestation of this conflict. My own theory.

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


FreeHugMachine
FreeHugMachine's picture
Posts: 152
Joined: 2009-04-02
User is offlineOffline
I think a mutual effort to

I think a mutual effort to study religion, as a couple, could work.  With your input on studying the Bible, other religions, and maybe a few serious church sermons... you can have her start questioning her faith.  If she loves you, even though you are an atheist, she can't be that fundamental on Christianity.  My best guess would be to start slowly and act unbiased about any of it.  Act like you just want to learn/understand more but ask serious questions as much as you can in a kind way.  I've found that when it comes to becoming an atheist, studying religion is the best path.

 

My girlfriend (of 2 years) took forever to label herself atheist even though she was... she just hated being catagorized.


achillease
Posts: 4
Joined: 2009-04-23
User is offlineOffline
EXC wrote:I'm assuming by

EXC wrote:

I'm assuming by Christian you mean she still loves God and Jesus or does she just fear them because they can send her to hell?

Why she still latches on to her faith is not a question I can answer, I haven't asked her about her beliefs simply because I have enjoyed the relationship so far, and did not want to jeopardize it. However, I honestly believe she has, or is questioning her faith and that the main reason she holds on to it is because of her family and friends, the majority of which are religious to some extent...even the gays, afaik.

Even thinking this, I still am not quite sure how to gently approach her about it, hence the question in the first post.

 

EXC wrote:

But don't you think it's strange that she would 'love' someone that would torture you and her gay friends just for being who you are and honest about what you believe? And why doesn't she believe she'll go to hell for premarital sex and dating a non-Christian since the bible prohibits this?

Again, I'm not sure why she can believe or follow God, but I believe it has more to do with her family and friends: she comes from a rural are, traditional family values and that.

I believe I could adequately discuss and divert her thoughts on these matters once we had a meaningful conversation on the matter, but I'm just afriad I come at her head-on she'll just dodge the matter and we'll go back to our normal happy routine which involves no discussion of religion.

EXC wrote:

Yes, I've noticed that about Christians. Apparently, it's OK to go through life stressed out. God only gets really pissed about sex and not giving money.

Obviously the stress is about internal conflict. I don't think she really believes, but is confused thanks to fear and indoctrination. Her stress is just a manifestation of this conflict. My own theory.

I wholeheartedly agree. I feel the possible alienation of friends and family, coupled with other stress in her life drive her back to god. She stays stressed, but find that state of mind preferential to any major upheaval in her social life. Perhaps simply engaging her in why she gets easily stressed could be a good route to a discussion on her beliefs? Hmm.

 

 


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964976
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
achillease wrote:Well that

achillease wrote:

Well that was helpful. I'm simply asking for ...

I didn't respond to initiate a debate. Do as you please with my best advice. It's your life and your decision to ignore that advice.

Regards -T2-


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3945
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
Welcome to the forum!We're

Welcome to the forum!

We're glad to have you here.

achillease wrote:

1) Marriage. Initially I voiced my opinion that I feel the ceremony is unimportant to a lifelong relationship; this - as you can imagine - was not what she wanted to hear, asked me If I could think about my position on it. I did think about it, and informed her that I could get married to someone who found it important - important to someone I love, important to me - and that I never meant marriage was completely out of the question, just that I felt it unimportant.

I also expressed my distaste for a religious wedding, I mean, people that would damn me to hell would be giving blessing to a part of my life! However, I aquiesced on this point, as I felt it really didn't matter that much to me.

Thing is, after explaining and satisfying her on both points she didn't express any guilt or sadness in the compromises I have said I would make. She is not inherently selfish, I believe her faith has clouded her judgment.

This is, of course, entirely my opinion, but I would advise against marriage until this "conflict" has been mostly sorted out. I believe most relationships between Christians and atheists conclude with either one partner converting/deconverting or the relationship ending due to their worldviews being irreconcilable. If the latter occurs when you are married, everything will be drastically more complicated.

achillease wrote:
2) She would rather a certain pair of grandparents not find out about my beliefs(even though they would eventually, it's inevitable), as they would not be particularly happy: they make comments about her piercings, dying her hair etc. This discussion came about after telling her about my mother askings me to keep my thoughts quiet for my grandparents sake. I told her I would wish she not do the same to me - keep me silent - but she went ahed and expressed her fear. Again, I aquiesced; again, there was merely relief from her side, no words of sorry to me. I believe her faith has once again clouded her judgement.

Hmmm, I don't think this is as much of a problem with her faith as it is a problem with her grandparents. Clearly, pressure from her family (her friends?) and the fear of them knowing that she is with an atheist, or even that she might become an atheist, is a factor. I think time will take care of some of these issues.   

achillease wrote:
3) While it may seem I have aquiesced a lot, and probably shouldn't have, it was for a reason. Kids. If it ever got to that stage, I would like my kids to have no in-depth religious teachings provided to them, just basic instructions on all major beliefs so that they may better understand their peers. This was briefly mentioned, and she wasn't entirely happy. Hasn't been mentioned since. 

I don't think this would necessarily be a bad thing. An in-depth study of Christianity would grant them a better understanding of what they reject (assuming that they reject it), and as long as you also tell them your opinion on these topics, they should have no problem making their own decisions. 

Anyways, regarding your question in the OP, I'm not sure what to tell you, except that she's obviously struggling with these things constantly. Maybe she just needs to know that a person can love and be happy and live a fulfilling life without God.  

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3945
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
treat2 wrote:I didn't

treat2 wrote:

I didn't respond to initiate a debate. Do as you please with my best advice. It's your life and your decision to ignore that advice. Regards -T2-

Aren't you one of the dummies that you're advising him not to receive advice from?

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964976
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
butterbattle wrote:treat2

butterbattle wrote:

treat2 wrote:

I didn't respond to initiate a debate. Do as you please with my best advice. It's your life and your decision to ignore that advice. Regards -T2-

Aren't you one of the dummies that you're advising him not to receive advice from?

 

I knew I left myself wide open for that...

To answer your question:
I could be which is why I'm gonna "quit" posting in this topic.


HisWillness
atheistRational VIP!
HisWillness's picture
Posts: 4100
Joined: 2008-02-21
User is offlineOffline
achillease wrote:Where

achillease wrote:

Where exactly do you see any negatives in simply asking?

Don't mind treat2, (s)he's having fun with the site's environment, which is usually joking, sometimes ridiculous, and often mutually abusive. That said, welcome!

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


Vastet
atheistBloggerSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13234
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Welcome to the site! You

Welcome to the site! Laughing out loud

You don't want my opinion on this matter (trust me), so I won't offer it. Sticking out tongue

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964976
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
HisWillness wrote:achillease

HisWillness wrote:

achillease wrote:

Where exactly do you see any negatives in simply asking?

Don't mind treat2, (s)he's having fun with the site's environment, which is usually joking, sometimes ridiculous, and often mutually abusive. That said, welcome!

Ouch! That does it!

I'm telling!


Ken G.
Posts: 1352
Joined: 2008-03-20
User is offlineOffline
Hi !

     Welcome to the Machine. Now as far as advise goes,all I can say is buy her a few books like "Atheist Universe",    "The God Delusion" etc. if someone else gave you this advise first, ignore this thread.       

Signature ? How ?


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 16424
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
achillease wrote:Well that

achillease wrote:

Well that was helpful. I'm simply asking for non confrontational ways I could approach my girlfriend to discuss the topic, I'm not going to go try every suggestion. If I find any of them to have any merit I will think about it logicaaly and how it would work in regards to the dynamic of our relationship.

I've never bothered trying to confront someone on their beliefs before, so I'm hoping someone has had past experience they can share.

Where exactly do you see any negatives in simply asking?

I don't think there is a person here who would say, "Don't do it", meaning date her. BUT there can be unexpected things that will occur to differing degrees with relationships like this. Neither of you should expect the other to be something they are not. At the same time neither of you should be afraid of discussing or debating it.

HOWEVER, we are not you, and only you can gauge your comfort level  and her comfort level. We are not your relationship councilors If anything will help both of you in this, it would be not to expect the other to be a clone of each other. You don't have to be confrontational about it, but neither of you should always expect the other to submit to silence on the subject.

There is no "magic pill" for your situation and only you can determine what path you will take.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


Bulldog
Superfan
Bulldog's picture
Posts: 333
Joined: 2007-08-04
User is offlineOffline
Your girlfriend sounds a lot

Your girlfriend sounds a lot like my ex, except for the glossolalia bit.  I tried talking to her a few times early in our relationship about atheism and religion and she'd get a little testy.  What I eventually did while we were still in the dating stage was leave my Skeptical Inquirer and Humanist magazines laying about.  I knew she liked to read so I would make myself busy and she would start looking at the magazines out of boredom.  Eventually she started asking questions about atheism.  I answered her questions and discussed anything with her she wanted. 

When she asked pointed questions about my reasons for not believing in god I started out telling her that I read the bible and saw all the contradictions, etc.  At that time she didn't believe there were any contradictions or mistakes though I didn't press the issue.  I told her when she wanted to know more about that all she had to do was ask.  When she did ask I was more than eager to point them out.  within weeks she was doubting her belief in the bible and eventually in god.   She is now a proud atheist.  I'm not saying this will work for you or anyone else, it is simply what worked for me.  Don't pressure her for dialog, let her bring it up.

BTW, this had nothing to do with our divorce.  We were both cops and that will put a strain on any relationship.

"Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." Thomas Jefferson
www.myspace.com/kenhill5150


spike.barnett
Superfan
spike.barnett's picture
Posts: 1018
Joined: 2008-10-24
User is offlineOffline
achillease wrote:I am

achillease wrote:

I am finding it hard to think of a way to very gently make her think/question/enter discussion about.

Get her just above the heel... oh wait, never mind, that's you.

In all honesty, I wish I could help you out. I've challenged the beliefs of many theist and only ever converted one. I dated a witch once and it was probably the biggest nail in the coffin. Not saying it will cause anything in your relationship, that depends on if you guys can put up with each others differences. I couldn't put up with her using her "visions" to make life changing decisions, and she couldn't put up with my "robotic" logic. Not too long after I met an atheist girl who I have the pleasure of hanging out with tomorrow. So even if it does cause problems, it's the end the world.

Question to fellow atheist. Have you ever been called a robot by your S.O. for thinking logically and/or rejecting woo-woo?

 

edit: I forgot to welcome you.  Welcome to the forums!

After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.

The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
MySpace


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
spike.barnett

spike.barnett wrote:

achillease wrote:

I am finding it hard to think of a way to very gently make her think/question/enter discussion about.

Get her just above the heel... oh wait, never mind, that's you.

Ah, I get his username now. It's achill-ease. I first thought it was achille-ase, as in an enzyme that can cleave Achilles.

Quote:
Question to fellow atheist. Have you ever been called a robot by your S.O. for thinking logically and/or rejecting woo-woo?

I've been told that I 'think too much'. My response: "I wish other people would think more!"

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5939
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
natural wrote:Quote:Question

natural wrote:

Quote:
Question to fellow atheist. Have you ever been called a robot by your S.O. for thinking logically and/or rejecting woo-woo?

I've been told that I 'think too much'. My response: "I wish other people would think more!"

I've had that comment from a friend.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 16424
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
BobSpence1 wrote:natural

BobSpence1 wrote:

natural wrote:

Quote:
Question to fellow atheist. Have you ever been called a robot by your S.O. for thinking logically and/or rejecting woo-woo?

I've been told that I 'think too much'. My response: "I wish other people would think more!"

I've had that comment from a friend.

Funny you should mention that. Rodney, you have talked to him Bob, told me at work, "You over analize everthing". I responded that most people don't analize enough".

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


spike.barnett
Superfan
spike.barnett's picture
Posts: 1018
Joined: 2008-10-24
User is offlineOffline
natural wrote:Ah, I get his

natural wrote:

Ah, I get his username now. It's achill-ease. I first thought it was achille-ase, as in an enzyme that can cleave Achilles.

The spelling is different. I assumed it was a reference to religion's glaring weaknesses.

natural wrote:

I've been told that I 'think too much'. My response: "I wish other people would think more!"

Same here.

After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.

The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
MySpace


HisWillness
atheistRational VIP!
HisWillness's picture
Posts: 4100
Joined: 2008-02-21
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:Funny you

Brian37 wrote:

Funny you should mention that. Rodney, you have talked to him Bob, told me at work, "You over analize everthing". I responded that most people don't analize enough".

Ordinarily, I wouldn't point out a spelling mistake, but I'm pretty sure you mean "analyze", because "analize" would probably mean something completely ... um ... different.

Have you tried one of these?

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


greek goddess
Rational VIP!Science Freak
greek goddess's picture
Posts: 361
Joined: 2008-01-26
User is offlineOffline
natural wrote:I've been told

natural wrote:

I've been told that I 'think too much'. My response: "I wish other people would think more!"

I got that too haha! When I was about 11, I started confirmation classes (with the eventual goal of being "confirmed" in the Lutheran church, of course). We were encouraged to ask questions, and since we were forced to be there for 3 hours once a week, I figured I might as well get the answers to all the questions that had been plaguing me about the religion. If I was going to be accepted into the church, I'd better understand as much as possible, right?

Yeah, apparently that's not what you're supposed to do. Week after week I asked puzzlers like "Why does God permit evil?" and "Doesn't that contradict what God said in the readings from last week's homework?" Most of the time, these questions sparked discussion, or at the very least the teacher would manage to bullshit her way through an answer. But one week, exasperated with all the questions, she finally threw up her hands and said to me, "You think too much. You make this way more complicated than it is." Just one of many experiences that signaled that religion was not for me.

 

Anyways achillease, since my deconversion, I've dated only other atheists, so I have no personal experience with deconverting a significant other. However, your girlfriend reminds me a bit about myself. I was never as fundamental as she apparently has been in her beliefs, but I do remember feeling anxiety over trying to "make thngs fit." As a biology major, I had to do brain gymnastics to come up with a way to squeeze God into evolutionary theory, atomic theory, the laws of physics, etc. I tried endlessly to reconcile religious doctrine with what I observed in the real world, and sometimes worried over conflicting viewpoints expressed by guest speakers at my religious high school's chapel services. Once I let all that go and just realized it was all bullshit, it was like breathing a huge mental sigh of relief.

I second the "God Delusion" idea, since that book in particular was what finally convinced me to let go of religion for good. However, I don't think it would be courteous to just hand her the book "out of the blue." Rather, maybe next time she seems stressed out over something pertaining to religion, use that as a jumping off point to ask her why she continues with that tradition when it seems to cause more harm than benefit in her life. Use this discussion as an opportunity to find out exactly what keeps her in the grip of religion, and maybe try to address those issues. Then a couple days later, it would be appropriate to present her with "The God Delusion" or a book of its equal. Tell her that you've been thinking about your previous discussion, and you think maybe it would be helpful for her to see things from a different viewpoint, if she's open to that. Let her know you're willing to discuss any issues that might come up, or answer any questions she might have. This way, it appears that you're simply concerned about her well being, and are trying to provide help, instead of coming off as though you're attacking her.

Keep us updated on what you decide to do! And welcome to the forums!
 


treat2 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964976
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
I'm so glad to see 24

I'm so glad to see 24 responses to a life-altering question.

If the thread-poster hangs out for a bit more than a few days, maybe we can get the diversity of advice to over a hundred responses!

Give it "one" for the Gipper!


mrjonno
Posts: 726
Joined: 2007-02-26
User is offlineOffline
The the problem is most of

The the problem is most of the give is going to have to come from your lady friend.

You think she is wrong on something (religion) , not a big deal as it only directly effects her through it becomes different once children get involved

She thinks you will burn in hell but more importantly she will suffer in this life and the next if she doesnt try to prevent this. Thats the real issue


ClockCat
ClockCat's picture
Posts: 2265
Joined: 2009-03-26
User is offlineOffline
:>

I would not directly debate her in any way. Rather, I would simply ask questions every now and then that stir her to think on her own.

 

When she makes a statement related to doing something because of her religion, ask "Why?"

 

There is no need for confrontation. She will probably be stressed out for a bit from internal conflict, but it sounds like she has that already in her situation.

 

Most people are taught not to question their beliefs, so a simple question every now and then will encourage them to break the mold and can be the catalyst for her to reflect on her viewpoints.

Theism is why we can't have nice things.


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
There are two books which I

There are two books which I would recommend. One is The Mind of the Bible Believer by Edmund Cohen, and Why I Became an Atheist by John Loftus.

I would recommend reading them yourself first, before you try to give them to your girlfriend, as they will help you understand religion from the inside. Use your discretion about if and/or when to give them to her.

The first book, Mind of the Bible Believer, explains specifically how the Bible itself modifies they way people think and keeps them enthralled by religion. It really does change a person's view of the world, what is 'truth', what is 'love', etc.

The second book, Why I Became an Atheist, is like an anti-apologetics book, written by a former apologist who had his own personal journey to leave Christianity. It also looks at the Bible and adds in some ancient history to explain the origins of the Bible, why the stories are the way they are, and why they are very probably just superstitions.

This might help you see things from her perspective (more or less, depending on her particular beliefs), and may help you see ways to approach her without offending her.

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!