Philadelphia & Tri-State Area Atheists

thechristianpol...
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Philadelphia & Tri-State Area Atheists

On April 15th, 2009 a Christian ministry in Philadelphia, PA will be holding the "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be an Atheist" seminar at a private Catholic university. In this two hour discussion Dr. Frank Turek, Christian author and Associate Professor of Apologetics at Southern Evangelical Seminary, will give a presentation on why he believes God exists. The two topics of the evening will be "Does God Exist" and "Does Truth Exist" This is open to non-La Salle University students.

Dr. Turek asks for you to bring your "Toughest Objections" to his arguments and put him on the "hot seat." For unbelievers, this is your chance to put a renowned Christian apologist to shame. For Christians, this is a chance to strengthen your faith. Atheists, Agnostics, the merely Non-Religious, and Christians are welcome. People of all religious backgrounds are welcome.

Share this with your Christian, Atheist, or Agnostic friends!

Date: April 15, 2009

Time: 6 PM

Location: Chapel (College Hall Building) of La Salle University (Philadelphia, PA)

Price: Free

Parking: Chew Avenue (In front of Rite-Aid) (More info in directions link)

Directions: http://www.lasalle.edu/campusmap/directions/

Facebook Link: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=70235192027&ref=mf

 

 

Information on the speaker

Frank Turek

September 9, 2008 debated Christopher Hitchens on "Does God Exist?" at Virginia Commonwealth University

March 31, 2009 debated Christopher Hitchens on "What Best Explains Reality: Theism vs. Atheism?" [Review of Debate here]

-Post Debate Video Here

-Over 30 Videos from Dr. Turek Here


DanMullin
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Right off the bat, I gotta

Right off the bat, I gotta say that I have a problem with the title of this seminar.

 

What faith does it take to hold a skeptical position on a matter of which there is no evidence to support?


thechristianpol...
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Info Pic

Date: April 15, 2009

Time: 6 PM

Location: Chapel (College Hall Building) of La Salle University (Philadelphia, PA)

Price: Free

Parking: Chew Avenue (In front of Rite-Aid) (More info in directions link)

Directions: http://www.lasalle.edu/campusmap/directions/

Facebook Link: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=70235192027&ref=mf


thechristianpol...
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Sources

Hello DanMullin,

I'm new on here, but I'd like to know what are your sources to say there is no evidence for Christianity. And in fact, anyone who reads this, I'd like to know what are books do you read to determine that Christianity is false. I'm really interested in atheistic literature and philosophy. I practically live by the bible verse in Proverbs 18:17 "The first who states his case seems right, until another comes and cross-examines" (Complete Jewish Bible). Therefore, I am compelled to examine all sides of the argument.

So guys (and gals) what are your reads?


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There is abundant evidence

There is abundant evidence Christianity exists.  I don't think any atheist has said otherwise...

There is an abundant lack of evidence that the Christian god exists.  This lack of evidence is also seen in the tooth fairy, Islam, Zeus, and FSM.

Why do you believe in the Christian god when there are an abundant amount of other silly gods to believe on faith as well?  It would be safer if you tried to appease all of them at once (Pascal).  You could increase your odds of a chance of eternal bliss by doing so, if eternal bliss exists at all.

 

 

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thechristianpol...
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Atheist Library

Thanks for responding, I guess I should have been more clear.

I asked what books do you read? I want to read some highly recommended atheistic material. So what atheist books are in your library?


FreeHugMachine
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The bible, the koran, the

The bible, the koran, the bhagavad-gita (hindu) are all good books supporting atheism, especially in conjunction.

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thechristianpol...
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More cheap shots

FreeHugMachine wrote:

The bible, the koran, the bhagavad-gita (hindu) are all good books supporting atheism, especially in conjunction.

 

I asked for some real books like the "God Delusion" "Letter to a Christian Nation (which I own)" "The Blind Watchmaker" something scholarly. Or a deep philosophical work. I don't think any serious Christian will take that kind of response seriously. Isn't it possible that I could switch the 3 texts that you mentioned for the ones I just have (to support Christianity)?

FreeHugMachine wrote:

There is an abundant lack of evidence that the Christian god exists.  This lack of evidence is also seen in the tooth fairy, Islam, Zeus, and FSM.

Why do you believe in the Christian god when there are an abundant amount of other silly gods to believe on faith as well?  It would be safer if you tried to appease all of them at once (Pascal).  You could increase your odds of a chance of eternal bliss by doing so, if eternal bliss exists at all.

By the way FreeHugMachine, I think your first response was a very cheap shot and babyish attempt at a reductio ad absurdum. That type of analogy doesn't work with the Christian God. I recently heard that the difference between the Christian God and the other gods is that all those other gods are inside space-time and natural history, while the Christian God abides outside of it. Plus, I think that any god must reveal himself to humanity in order to establish some credibility. The Christian God does that. The Islamic god tries that (quite nastily) and his verification process is a complete failure. And as for Zeus and the thousands of other gods I must ask: are there any verification processes in their religions? If there aren't, then they aren't a safe bet to believe in at all.

Applying Paschal's wager to the other god's is nonsensical (and rather impious). It would be an achievement of the human mind to believe in all gods (or would it?). Not only that, try living out the principles of Islam, Buddhism, Filipino Catholicism (where they flagellate themselves and hang on crosses), all at one time. For to believe in all gods would mean having to follow them all too right? Impossible.


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Books to read

  There is just to many really good books about Atheism and Philosophy and Human migration (the peopling of the Earth) which shows you how humans adapted to different cultures and their religions.But I'll name a few that I have recently read: "The End of Faith" and "Letter to a Christian Nation" both by Sam Harris.Then you got "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and "The Demon Haunted World"by Carl Sagan,then there's "God is not Great"by Christopher Hitchens.and then there's"Common Sense and The Rights of Man" by Thomas Paine and the one that I'm reading now "DOUBT- a history-The Great Doubters and their Legacy from Socrates and Jesus to Thomas Jefferson and Emily Dickinson"by Jennifer Michael Hecht.and you also got Science Books and Philosophy books that shows you Human understanding . PS My sister in law goes to La Salle,I'll have to ask her if she will be attending this meeting.    PS,I also didn't know that you already read "The God Delusion and Letter to a Christian Nation" so let me give you another title of a book that I thought covered a lot about man and his innovations (Writing,Tools,Farming,Religions and Army"s) ." Guns,Germs and Steel:The Fate of Human Society's"by Jared Diamond (he explains what has occurred on all of the Continents in the past 100,000 years. A really good book   

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thechristianpolemicist

thechristianpolemicist wrote:

FreeHugMachine wrote:

The bible, the koran, the bhagavad-gita (hindu) are all good books supporting atheism, especially in conjunction.

 

I asked for some real books like the "God Delusion" "Letter to a Christian Nation (which I own)" "The Blind Watchmaker" something scholarly. Or a deep philosophical work. I don't think any serious Christian will take that kind of response seriously. Isn't it possible that I could switch the 3 texts that you mentioned for the ones I just have (to support Christianity)?

FreeHugMachine wrote:

There is an abundant lack of evidence that the Christian god exists.  This lack of evidence is also seen in the tooth fairy, Islam, Zeus, and FSM.

Why do you believe in the Christian god when there are an abundant amount of other silly gods to believe on faith as well?  It would be safer if you tried to appease all of them at once (Pascal).  You could increase your odds of a chance of eternal bliss by doing so, if eternal bliss exists at all.

By the way FreeHugMachine, I think your first response was a very cheap shot and babyish attempt at a reductio ad absurdum. That type of analogy doesn't work with the Christian God. I recently heard that the difference between the Christian God and the other gods is that all those other gods are inside space-time and natural history, while the Christian God abides outside of it. Plus, I think that any god must reveal himself to humanity in order to establish some credibility. The Christian God does that. The Islamic god tries that (quite nastily) and his verification process is a complete failure. And as for Zeus and the thousands of other gods I must ask: are there any verification processes in their religions? If there aren't, then they aren't a safe bet to believe in at all.

Applying Paschal's wager to the other god's is nonsensical (and rather impious). It would be an achievement of the human mind to believe in all gods (or would it?). Not only that, try living out the principles of Islam, Buddhism, Filipino Catholicism (where they flagellate themselves and hang on crosses), all at one time. For to believe in all gods would mean having to follow them all too right? Impossible.

1. Not a cheap shot. I became an atheist after reading the Bible. I was a Christian as long as I didn't bother with it.

2. The rest of your argument is a lovely case of special pleading. Keeping your God outside the rules you hold all the others to is the only way he make sense? Sounds like the way Yahweh operated in scripture - breakibg all the rules he'd sentence you to hell for.

As for revealing himself to humanity - if he has done so it has only been to selected humans. If he's not willing to reveal himself to all, that makes him an unconscionable bastard.

3. The inability to follow all gods is why Pascal's wager fails. The dichotomy Pascal tried to create is false because there are other gods to follow - it's not just Yahweh or nothing. Your whole theistic life comes down to hoping you made the right guess.

Oh and just in case you are interested - not all Filipino Catholics go through self crucifiction and flagellation - just a few more dedicated followers of the same Bible you have. 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


FreeHugMachine
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I should have noted that the

I should have noted that the reason I listed those three books is because I am currently reading (or re-reading in regards to the Bible) them in order to find more support my understanding of religion and its lack of coherency.  Like in the Gita where it is merely implied that a soul is a known factor which is undeniable and unkillable in order to allow for killing on Earth to be justified (sacred duty).  These kinds of ideas are supported on nothing but implied on authority to be true without question.  I don't deny exclusively that a soul could exist, only that if it did would be irrelevent to how I should live my life in that it is as unknowable as any other claim from ignorance.

 

I apologize that my statement seemed to be a cheap shot.  I admit I was attempting to knock down some arguments you might try to use preemptively.  So because it is claimed god exists outside of (comprehensible) reality by xtians, he is real on merit that he CAN NOT be proved?  You do realize that by giving attributes to the unknown is claiming knowledge of something that one CAN NOT claim knowledge of.

I actually have been listening to Theist vs. Atheist debates.  I would suggest that they are actually better than books because it "fairly" represents both sides, of course a skilled debater would cream someone who was not.  I wouldn't say the win/loss of the debate matters, only the ability for one to understand and accept/reject the statements made by both sides.

 

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You guys ever come to my

You guys ever come to my part of Canada, give me a shout. I'd be happy to show up and poke holes in the entire god argument.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Athiest reading material

Hello.

I know this topic is rather aged, but... I highly recommend "The Myth of Sisyphus" by Albert Camus. It is my favorite.