GOD'S LOVE-HATE RELATIONSHIP WITH HUMANITY
Posted on: March 28, 2009 - 5:07pm
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GOD'S LOVE-HATE RELATIONSHIP WITH HUMANITY
I don't know if this question was asked in any previous threads, so please excuse me if it was:
Christians, please answer how is it not cruel and unjustifiable for a serial killer such as Jeffrey Dahmer to believe and be saved, while an innocent or moral nonbeliever (who did good all his/her life) is condemned by the christian god?
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If Dahmer repented for his sins and accepted Jesus as his lord and savior, then God will forgive him. But only provided that it is an act of contrition.
As far as the other hypothetical person, "good" and "moral" according to what standard? Your standard? Man's standard? Did this person ever lie, lust, cheat, steal, etc.? Did this other person repent and accept Jesus or did s/he continue to sin without any regret? If the latter, then s/he is going to Hell.
I don't see any problems here.
If God's standard is that Hitler can go to heaven by repenting before he dies while Thomas Jefferson went to hell, then I maintain that my standard is better than God's standard. So, unless you can prove that Yahweh exists, then, bluntly put, I don't give a damn what his hypothetical standard is.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
If it is any comfort to you, I highly doubt that Hitler or Dahmer would genuinely repent. They would most likely CLAIM to have repented because they fear Hell. But that's like the difference between being genuinely sorry or simply sorry that you got caught.
Anyway, Hitler rejected his Roman Catholocism early on. He may have used it to give a religious bridle to his hate-filled agenda, but he was definitely an atheist.
There are however many new Christians on death row that supposedly will be saved if they truly are sorrowful for their past sins while people such as Asimov, Sagan and Hawking will burn in Hell for their denial of God at least.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
According to the christian god's standard of morality for man, it is a sin to think lustful thoughts (for example) making it a thought crime. But that is bibletalk. Thinking "immoral" thoughts do not harm other people.
I am referring to moral ACTIONS;how we treat each other. Morality is about relationships between humans and other lifeforms-NOT supernatural gods. God has no use for morality since god is not human. Saying "god is good or just" or "what god says or does is good or just" is what believers think and project onto god. God can't really be explained or described since god is unknowable to humans. All believers and nonbelievers have are human standards tested by time and experience, based upon empathy and reason.
The other person is not a christian, neither repented and accepted jesus, so the bible condemns him/her to hell. He/she never harmed another in any way. You have not explained how saving Jeffrey Dahmer and condemning this morally good person is justice and not cruel, aside from repeating what the bible clearly implies. What standard allows a person to be sent to hell solely for nonbelief?
How do you know he was an atheist?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
So?
Dahmer could have been sincere and repented, accepting christ. That is my question. You can plug in any other murderer as I'm certain some were sincere. He was just an example.
*rubs palms all over your face*
I wuv youu.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Well I'm giving you the answer according to the scriptures:
If Dahmer makes an act of contrition and accepts Jesus as his lord and savior, then God will forgive him.
Those who do not accept Jesus are going to Hell.
So god's standards are "whoever believes, no matter how bad they are, they are forgiven. Right?
Please! Tell me how I can accept a dead man that may or may not have existed! I HAVE TO KNOW!
Will he be inside me?
Will I enjoy it?
Will he call me? Or is he one of those "one night fling" types?
I've never cuddled with a hypothetical zombie before...
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
No, not at all.
If someone claimed to have accepted Christ but went around killing people anyway, then that would make this person a hypocrite.
Did Jeffrey Dahmer in your example accept Jesus and stop behaving like he previous did? Or was he a hypocrite?
He stopped behaving badly after accepting jesus. But I was talking about what he did previous to his repenting.
Oh no a hypocrite! IN RELIGION? THAT IS UNHEARD OF!
*takes hat off* Good day sir. I say, good day.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Well then he is forgiven.
What's the problem?
ClockCat brings up a point, that christians CAN behave badly after repenting and accepting christ. To say this is not possible, is to put one's head in the sand. It does happen.
Shhh, you aren't supposed to talk about the loopholes. THE CRUSADES ARE HOLY...I mean INQUISITION...I mean...oh darnit.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Of course it will happen. Humans have a fallen nature. Salvation does not mean that you will never sin again.
You seem to think it a good thing to be sent to hell for unbelief even if one is not a bad person)....hmmmm.
Fallen. Tainted. ONLY WE HAVE THE CURE! Subscribe now.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Exactly.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
It does not matter what *I* think. I'm just telling you what the scriptures say. Obviously, it is not a popular message but Jesus did not come to the Earth to make friends.
"bad person" by what standard? Your standard may not be God's standard.
I will not fall for the bait and switch routine...sorry!
All one needs to do is say 5 Hail Marys and 5 Our Fathers and receive absolution from the priest and all is well.
The problem occurs if you die before you confess then you get to spend a while being purified.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
The same standard YOU live by everyday.
I thought the hypothetical Jesus came to stir up an uprising against the Roman Empire. For which he was crucified for being a traitor. Right? I mean, he supposedly did attack people in the temple. A moneychanger even!
Dirty traitors have to be put down. By the Roman Empire's standards. I don't see where any gods fit into it though....
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
I live by God's standard.
Remember if you are Mormon you have to be white to enter heaven.
But if you are holy enough you can turn white. Like Michael Jackson.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Just curious, which god is that?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
You can mock all you'd like, but you are going to Hell. I'll pray for you.
No you cannot, because it is up to god to punish and vengeance is his alone. His standards are different. You are to obey rulers and society just like the rest of us.
Are you Mormon?
Can you tell me what is the deal with the magic underwear? I'm really curious. I'd like to understand where that practice came from.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
No, I'm actually a real Christian.
(tm)?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
What is a real Christian? Are you Protestant? Baptist? Catholic?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
What does that mean? You are a 'true Christian' following the way of Jesus or do you follow a religion?
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
There are as many kinds of christians as sands in the sea, it seems.
You're an atheist because you like to diddle yourself. Whereas religious folks learn to not be controlled by lust.
I'm just curious as to what religion or denomination you belong to, since they all have vastly varying beliefs.
Are you a Jehova's witness?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Religious people don't masturbate?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
No, they just commit adultery.
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
...and every other conceivable crime.
the first post was questioning God's judgment. I think you automatically assume that God is supposed to think the way you do. God works in mysterious ways. There is countless demonstrations in Scriptures. So de-twist what you twisted. Lets start at this...
Do serial killers who commit the most terrible offense imaginable deserve to be saved more than honest 'truth soldiers' (atheists)?
the answer is its up to God. Job 28:28 is a good response also.
After you disagree with that scripture, I am guessing it is because you are a rational scientific truth soldier, right. Im calling you out. Im saying your intentions are not for truth. Im saying atheist intent is predetermined intent that left truth out a long time ago. You know why I say that? there is no sense when you talk with no value. Jesus Christ talks with value. It makes sense to the truth and the truth only.
Now that youve heard me say that, Im assuming your ready to ask how I know. My answer is because I read the truth. When you read a lie, you might become a skeptic. When you read a theory, you might become a ponderer. When you read a golf instructional guide, you might become a golfer. When you read the truth, then you will follow Jesus Christ.
I read the alleged truth and became a skeptic, Reading the Bible is the quickest way to become an atheist.
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
If you buy now for the low low price of 30% of your income, and a few hours every Sunday you can purify the invisible taint inside!
It gets the stain RIGHT OUT! Look at that!
Honestly, I never knew Jesus was so absorbant.
There should be more commercials for him! Like Shamwow!
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Dirty Mean SOD
Please resize your avatar. It is too large and is obscuring your post.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
ClockCat, you are just *precious.* Can I take you home with me? I promise I'll take reaaaally good care of you!
How do you do the "so and so wrote" thing where you outline quotes.
And also, you read scriptures and became a skeptic, did you?
"I read one fish two fish red fish blue fish" and became a skeptic as well. Things werent adding up. One fish said he was red and the other blue. that goes agianst the law of noncontradiction. unless there was some kind of underlying meaning to it all. Hmm, perhaps it was just to make kids laugh and learn. In that case, it would make a lot of sense.
Perhaps the Bible is trying to make you understand truth.
See what happens, the last time I bought in it was only 10% and 45 or 50 minutes. Too expensive, I'll just keep my free pass to heaven as a relapsed catholic heretic.
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.