Why Music?

EXC
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Why Music?

First some background:

http://soundandmind.amsteg.org/index.php?p=39

http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=12795510

Why does music play this special role in our society and education system?

One of my problems with music is how it used by religion. When Dawkins or Hitchens makes the case for non-belief, they don’t need to use music to set the mood for someone to accept their arguments. When Christians make an alter call, they need the pipe organs or whatever music to set the mood.  I don’t think you can have religion without music. Christians need to music to keep them in their delusional state of mind.

It also annoys me how public schools create music and drama junkies. In my high school, they let 14 year olds decides what they wanted to take. So in a small school we had 4 years of choir, band and drama. We had no physics or advanced math and one year of chemistry. The band students got their instruments for free, the shop students had to pay for their stuff. Now, people wonder why the industrial heartland of America is an economic basket case.

I enjoy eating cheesecake, I enjoy music, I also enjoy silence sometimes. There are million other things to enjoy and pursue. Why don’t we have 4 years of karate, surfing, pot smoking or playing poker in public schools as an option? These people that think we need tons of music education for everyone are just like the potheads. I say go ahead and enjoy your drugged out delusional state, just don’t expect me to pay for it.

I know people claim it helps with learning, where there is scientific evidence to support this, OK use it. Other drugs can help with learning too, but there needs to be science to back it up before they are administered. Then there are the people that think everyone enjoys their music, so it must be cranked up loud.

I think the time has come to stop treating music as something special, spiritual thing or ‘the food of love’. It’s auditory cheesecake. A tool to keep people in delusional states of mind. It’s a way to use sound to stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain. If you just want you pleasure centers stimulated all the time, hook up electrodes to your nucleus accumbens.

 
 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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I personally have come to

I personally have come to the conclusion that the greatest application of music is in theatre (ie: movies/games/etc). Beyond that, it died in the late 80's/early 90's. Noone has seen it since.

MTV should be shut down, and anyone who ever worked for it should be shot. Same goes for MM, and CMT, and any other music tv station.

Byah! Laughing out loud

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Vastet wrote:MTV should be

Vastet wrote:

MTV should be shut down, and anyone who ever worked for it should be shot.

Don't you dare! John Stewart used to be a host.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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nigelTheBold wrote:Vastet

nigelTheBold wrote:

Vastet wrote:

MTV should be shut down, and anyone who ever worked for it should be shot.

Don't you dare! John Stewart used to be a host.

Time to see if Vastet is a man of own principle

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What?!Well....fine. I did

What?!

Well....fine. I did say shoot them, not kill them. I guess that will have to suffice.

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As a proud owner of 22 GB of

As a proud owner of 22 GB of obscure music, I can say, giving children this kind of drug will make their life much easier. If they are overweight or skinny, nerdy, wearing glasses, not liked at school, physically frail, emotionally sensitive and so on, there are only few joys in their life ahead of them. One of them is music. This ancient mind-altering tool was given a new dimension by modern technology. Now children can intoxicate themselves with their own endorphines in any moment they can plug at least one earphone in.And suddenly, the world is beautiful.
Now the composers equipped by their extreme skill and intricate electronics, can create hypnotic multi-layered sound patterns which will tell the brain to take a walk. This kind of addiction gradually causes a worse hearing, which in turn even more hinders an addict from social interaction. (they understand less of speech around)

For the scientific fans, my information is, that succession of development was reputedly like that:
language -> dance -> music. However, I have no idea how that's possible, to me it seems like the least probable order.
Also, another information of mine is, that most genial composers like Mozart saw the music as a vision of picture, which they afterwards expressed in music. How strange.
Next, the medieval church music used a different tone set, octaves, or whatever it is. It was more diffcult to compose, but it had much greater effect on people. One local man who studied the music wrote a book about it. In one chapter, he describes that his friend re-programmed an electronic organ system into the medieval setting. Mere one tone became so profound that hairs on his neck stood up.
The sound is a frequency. The world itself is made of frequencies. Esoteric sources says, that certain relationships between energy and matter, expressible as equations, will be possible to re-interptretate as sounds. These sounds will be possible to be played or pronounced, which will affect the matter and invoke energy. And so will be fulfilled the ancient notion of magic in form of words or chants, in a scientific way. Well, I love these predictions, sci-fi is hardly always so brave.

As it seems, the more pleasure comes from obscure stuff, the less is one able to tolerate the mundane junk by which we are flooded in radios, commercials and a majority of commercial music scene. But I think it's worth it. With a bit of training and the right moment, I can have an experience of mystical ecstasy or at least of deep euphoria.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tefzSUZbM7Q&fmt=18

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Luminon wrote:As it seems,

Luminon wrote:

As it seems, the more pleasure comes from obscure stuff, the less is one able to tolerate the mundane junk by which we are flooded in radios, commercials and a majority of commercial music scene.

You used the term obscure twice. Is it just that your tastes are rather odd, and thus only a few musicians sound good to you? Or do you find that being obscure makes music better?


 

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Obviously, you guys are not

Obviously, you guys are not musicians.

*grabs guitar and walks out of room*


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thatonedude wrote:Luminon

thatonedude wrote:

Luminon wrote:

As it seems, the more pleasure comes from obscure stuff, the less is one able to tolerate the mundane junk by which we are flooded in radios, commercials and a majority of commercial music scene.

You used the term obscure twice. Is it just that your tastes are rather odd, and thus only a few musicians sound good to you? Or do you find that being obscure makes music better?

Probably both reasons. All my music is rather complicated, contemplative, thoughtful, diverse or unusual by something. It has various degrees of loudness and tempo, but it's mostly far from anything what can be heard in radio or TV. In comparison, it's too long, has too strange sound effects, combines too many cultures and genres, etc.
There are big fan communities of these musicians and their live sessions but they're not so massively appreciated as Paul van Dyk or Paul Oakenfold, for example. The commercial scene is for a majority of people who can listen almost anything as long as it sounds "normal" enough, but musicians who aren't that much after money can do their stuff in higher quality, though not so frequently. For example, the sound engineer Ott published his legendary first album "Blumenkraft" after 20 years.
As for the musicians I like, they're not few, so far there's about 60 of them. Right now I explore the universe of Pitch Black [NZ], and then I'll prepare for what Eat Static can offer. The scene of electronic music is even more productive than I can use, but it takes some searching to find the gems.

 

 

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pablotar wrote:Obviously,

pablotar wrote:

Obviously, you guys are not musicians.

*grabs guitar and walks out of room*

Hear hear.

 

And to EXC: You know what David Brin says about selfrightious indignation? That it's a drug high.

 

I think that sums you up perfectly EXC

Well I was born an original sinner
I was spawned from original sin
And if I had a dollar bill for all the things I've done
There'd be a mountain of money piled up to my chin


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Nikolaj wrote:pablotar

Nikolaj wrote:

pablotar wrote:

Obviously, you guys are not musicians.

*grabs guitar and walks out of room*

Hear hear.

 

+1

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EXC
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Nikolaj wrote:And to EXC:

Nikolaj wrote:

And to EXC: You know what David Brin says about selfrightious indignation? That it's a drug high.

I'll actually agree with you. Everyone thinks their own way is best and morally superior. But I'm trying to be mature about making a rational argument for my cases. Whereas you just use feelings to base your positions. That music should be promoted in schools is based on your feelings about it, your socialist views are based on your morally superior compassion(with other people's money), not on how real economies work.

Why do you make the personal attacks or in the case of political arguments emotional appeals? Can't you make your case against me with facts and logic, based on how the universe works not how music makes you 'feel'? Isn't this 'rational' responders?

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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personal opinion

Music really is a personal opinion, my business partner and I disagree alot on music, for example he does not believe that rap, hip hop are a form of music, at the same time he dismisses reggea as a form of speaking music, but no really music, to him if it ain't rock it ain't music. Where for me I am open to all forms of music. My music library has everything from old school reggea (60's and 70's) as well as old school ska (Derrick Morgan for example), to tangos, rock, heavy metal, hip hop (T.I. right now I listen to alot), rap, techno, shit I listen to as much as I can, my personal belief that you cannot say your a music lover and discard other forms of music, what you are is a specific type of music lover then, like my partner is a rock music lover, not a music lover in the actual sense of loving music in all it's forms. However what is good and what is bad, is really just a matter of opinion when it comes to music, much like what is a sell out and what isn't a sell out in the music industry.


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pablotar wrote:Obviously,

pablotar wrote:

Obviously, you guys are not musicians.

*grabs guitar and walks out of room*

*glances at the guitars, amps, effects processors and drums around him and thinks about the little Garageband studio he's building downstairs*

Uh, does that count?

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pablotar
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thatonedude wrote:pablotar

thatonedude wrote:

pablotar wrote:

Obviously, you guys are not musicians.

*grabs guitar and walks out of room*

*glances at the guitars, amps, effects processors and drums around him and thinks about the little Garageband studio he's building downstairs*

Uh, does that count?

 

*looks at his converted soundproof trailer with all his instruments and  Logic studio and says YES!*

(This happens outside the room as I've already walked out, heh.)

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thatonedude wrote:  

thatonedude wrote:

 

pablotar wrote:
Obviously, you guys are not musicians.

 

*grabs guitar and walks out of room*

 

*glances at the guitars, amps, effects processors and drums around him and thinks about the little Garageband studio he's building downstairs*

 

Uh, does that count?

 

*Glances at about $14,000 worth of assorted gear and wishes that he did not live in such a small apartment*

 

That works for me.

 

Right now, I am trying to find a cure for my GAS. It might be a Prophet 08 or the new Native Instruments groove box.

 

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GAS? What is this gas? I

GAS? What is this gas? I know there's at least a thousand dollars difference between those two pieces of gear though.

Eden had a 25% murder rate and incest was rampant.


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pablotar wrote:GAS?

pablotar wrote:
GAS? What is this gas? I know there's at least a thousand dollars difference between those two pieces of gear though.

 

You are, of course, correct. This being a forum for other things, let me clue people into the musicians humor:

 

GAS stands for “Gear Acquisition Syndrome”. We all have it and it knows no end. Pretty much the Ferengi rules of acquisition are not a code of how to get stuff but rather a cock blocking limit on what stuff we can get.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
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I collect but can't play

Although I am no musician myself, can't play a note, I do love to collect guitars of all sorts, I have a small collection of about 25 guitars.....I don't buy any gear, but I get what you mean by need to aquire gear....well for me it's just stands and the guitars.....the actual pedals and any other gear I leave it up to my muscian friends to whom I loan my guitars to for certain shows.


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*Looks at games like Guitar

*Looks at games like Guitar Hero and pukes*

Figured I'd give you music fans a hand up, since I smacked you down previously. Sticking out tongue

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I've got GAS. It hurts right

I've got GAS. It hurts right where I keep my wallet.