People who call themselves open minded must be willing to accept that they're wrong

Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Posts: 5492
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
People who call themselves open minded must be willing to accept that they're wrong

I've heard this on the boards as well as on the show last Wensday.

 

 

So I'd like to take a little poll.


When have you been wrong and how did you find out you were wrong?

 

I can't answer this question since I've never been wrong Sticking out tongue

 

Okay, okay

 

A bunch of years ago, I was thought that human consciousness was some out of body experience, but I came to the conclusion that I was wrong myself, from the study of psychology and physics. I denied it at first, but the more I thought about it, the less it made sense. To me it just seemed so obvious that it was something else, but apparently not.

 

 

 

 

 

 


shelley
ModeratorRRS local affiliate
shelley's picture
Posts: 1859
Joined: 2006-12-26
User is offlineOffline
I did not realize that free

I did not realize that free will is an illusion.  I learned otherwise from a combination of a discussion with a member of Beltway Atheists and one of Hamby's essays.


nigelTheBold
atheist
nigelTheBold's picture
Posts: 1868
Joined: 2008-01-25
User is offlineOffline
Back when I was a young

Back when I was a young physics student, I thought very much like Paisley does: that quantum uncertainty provided the basis for potential free will. I argued with some philosophy professors about it for a while. My physics advisor finally showed me the error of my ways, by showing that quantum uncertainty came from our mathematical model. Our model is statistical in nature, but so are models off other stochastic processes: the flow of liquids, plasma physics, weather, and so on. This doesn't mean the underlying principles contain uncertainty as a fundamental principle; but the only way to model it mathematically (as opposed to computationally) is via statistics.

This was years ago, of course. But once it was explained to me that we don't know yet know the nature of the quantum universe, I realized there was no way to make claims about it, until such time as we have more information.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


Vastet
atheistBloggerSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13234
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
There's really only one

There's really only one thing that comes to mind. Which is not to say I've only been wrong once(this site has at least a few examples of it), merely that this was the only time I put a lot of effort into being wrong, and had a 10 page debate on the subject only to be crushed by a single quote.

It had to do with the characters of Final Fantasy VIII. For those of you who never played the game, don't bother finishing reading this post. You won't get it. For those of you who didn't like the second greatest installment in the series, after Final Fantasy VI(originally released in NA as FFIII), you can go fuck yourselves. Sticking out tongue

The background of the characters in the game was very fuzzy, intentionally so. The main character Squall, imaged in my avatar, had a strange relationship with a girl called Ellone which he called "sis". I had deduced that they were blood relatives through many varied and scratchy sources throughout the game. Squaresoft really liked their gamers to have to think their way through things, which I much appreciated. Anyway, long story short, they weren't actually blood relatives. I had somehow missed a very specific line by Squall's father Laguna in a flash back scene that nullified all my work. Without that line, my case was solid. Once it came out in the discussion, I was done and said as much.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
In my line of work, I'm

In my line of work, I'm proven wrong several times per day. I write a bit of code, compile and test, and oops, there's a bug. I thought it would work, but it doesn't.

Writing software will pretty much humble anyone who thinks they are purely logical.

On the big philosophical things, I tend to admit when I don't know something, so it's not often I've picked a position and then been proven wrong. It's more that I don't pick a position until I'm quite sure I'm right. And I tend to stick with what science reveals, so again I'm only wrong when the best theories turn out to be wrong.

One big thing recently that I'll readily admit I was wrong about is the importance of emotions in the well-being of a person. I used to try to eliminate all emotions, as I attributed bad decision-making to 'emotional reasoning'. I still hold that emotions are not a good way to make logical decisions, but I no longer think it's a good idea to try to eliminate your own emotions for that reason. All that does is lead to mental illness, IMO.

That was probably the most difficult thing I've had to face about being wrong. It led to a major change in my life, and was a very painful transition. But definitely worth it.

I was wrong in my fear of homosexuality. Maybe 'wrong' is the wrong word, because it was really ignorance that caused it. When I finally made friends with someone who happened to be homosexual, I learned that they're not different at all, except in one preference, and the fear completely vanished. I guess I used to think there was something 'weird' about them (aside from just the different sexual preference), but I didn't really know what.

I had a similar realization about race. I had considered myself a 'non-racist white person'. Now I realize that 'race' has no actual basis and is just a cultural concept, and so I now only consider myself a human who happens to have white skin (technically not white, just a lesser degree of pigmentation), just like I happen to have brown hair and brown eyes.

For me, it is more the personal things that I've been wrong about, and usually because of some fear that was ingrained in me for years. The bigger things, I've just learned not to pretend to know what I don't know, and to trust reliable ways of knowing such as science. Instead of jumping to conclusions and later being proven wrong, instead I am in a constant state of learning and discovery of what we currently know to the best of our ability.

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


Archeopteryx
Superfan
Archeopteryx's picture
Posts: 1037
Joined: 2007-09-09
User is offlineOffline
Just the other day I was

Just the other day I was re-reading a paper I wrote as a college freshmen in which I was arguing that imitation is a great way for writers to improve. In the very first sentence, I stated, very matter of factly, very certainly, as if it were just common knowledge, that imitation is how children learn to speak.

 

*wince*

 

I'll keep that a secret from my Linguistics mentors.

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


Proper Gander
Proper Gander's picture
Posts: 83
Joined: 2007-11-05
User is offlineOffline
I once thought there was

I once thought there was nothing wrong with religion and that people should let others believe whatever they want without interfering. Then I met theists.

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy."


DamnDirtyApe
Silver Member
DamnDirtyApe's picture
Posts: 666
Joined: 2008-02-15
User is offlineOffline
 I once thought that the

 I once thought that the second story of the parking garage of my gym was actually the first story, due to an optical illusion.  Hopefully I'll never do that again.

"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell


pauljohntheskeptic
atheistSilver Member
pauljohntheskeptic's picture
Posts: 2517
Joined: 2008-02-26
User is offlineOffline
 Early in my career as an

 Early in my career as an electrical design engineer I gave the project team exactly what they had specified only to find out it wasn't what they required. This resulted in a mass field engineering change which caused the company president to remember my name for years. My error was not thinking for the project team as teams have no brains. After this I tried to limit my errors to easier to upgrade fuckups. All engineers take chances when we design and think yeah that won't happen only for it to occur far worse than you ever envisioned.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


HisWillness
atheistRational VIP!
HisWillness's picture
Posts: 4100
Joined: 2008-02-21
User is offlineOffline
 I wouldn't even know where

 I wouldn't even know where to start. Like natural, I used to be a programmer, and a programmer is wrong nearly all the time. The answer to the question, "How long do you think that's going to take?" is almost always wrong.

There was this time I thought I was in love with a total bitch. I wasn't. I was just hot for her.

When I was a kid, I thought "for all intents and purposes" was "all intensive purposes".

There are too many.

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


Archeopteryx
Superfan
Archeopteryx's picture
Posts: 1037
Joined: 2007-09-09
User is offlineOffline
HisWillness wrote:There was

HisWillness wrote:

There was this time I thought I was in love with a total bitch. I wasn't. I was just hot for her.

 

Oh man. Been there!

 

 

 

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3945
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple wrote:When

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

When have you been wrong and how did you find out you were wrong?

Jeez, I could fill a book with this topic.

Before I got to Leviticus in the Bible, for some reason, I was positive that homosexuality wasn't condemned in the Bible.

I thought there was no coherent scientific hypothesis for the origin of life.

One time, when I was little and riding in a car, I wondered why we never drove on the other side of the road. *facepalm*

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
 Most recently, I

 Most recently, I discovered that it's "say your piece," not "say your peace."  For years, I've thought it was another way of saying, "Say what you have to say to be at peace."

If you go into the Way Back File, there are tons of things -- I was an evangelical Christian for twenty years, after all.  I believed evolution was false.  I believed the flood happened.  I never believed the world was six thousand years old, but I thought that the story of Adam and Eve was a metaphor which, if properly read, could reconstruct even billions of years of history.  (I still don't quite understand how I believed that.  Age and knowledge are good.)

In the first election I was old enough to vote in, I voted Republican.  I'm not telling you which Republican.

I used to believe that humans were meant to be monogamous -- even after I learned that evolution was true.

I used to believe in free will.

I used to believe in trickle down economics

Until I was exposed to the drug culture, I believed the Beatles were singing about a State Trooper.  (Kudos to anyone who has a clue what I'm talking about.)

I used to believe that love and sex were inseparable.

Until a couple of weeks ago, I thought that firing an employee for stealing from the company safe would be sufficient to invalidate claims for unemployment.  Then I got hit with a notice that I have to pay her a hundred dollars a week for thirteen weeks to thank her for stealing from me.  It's under appeal, but the legal system is a son of a bitch, and she stole less than a hundred dollars.

I used to believe that eating sushi was particularly risky, but I've learned  that you're much more likely to get food poisoning from cooked chicken than raw fish.

Anyway, that's a short list.  I'm happy to report that the incidence of me being proven wrong has been steadily decreasing since I devoted myself to the study and consistent application of science and logic.

 

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


KSMB
Scientist
KSMB's picture
Posts: 702
Joined: 2006-08-03
User is offlineOffline
When I went to middle

When I went to middle school, I was thoroughly convinced that religious people just told each other they believed but didn't actually believe. That they kept up the appearance of belief to fit into their social group. We had started to learn about world religions in Swedish school and I just couldn't believe that people actually believed such crazy stories. Seemed to me much more likely they wanted to fit in somewhere. Unfortunately, I was wrong.


Luminon
SuperfanTheist
Luminon's picture
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2008-02-17
User is offlineOffline
I had been recently wrong

I had been recently wrong with objections to parenting by homosexuals, I thought that upbringing of a child may not be optimal with homosexual couple. I was proven wrong by scientific studies on that. Now it actually makes a greater sense to me, because such a couple would get the child because they really want, not because of a contraception failure. Also, it's much better than leaving the child in care of the state.

Also, I had been very wrong in my understanding of people's psychology, back in the school days. I once had a serious delusion, that being passive means to be harmless and safe. Neither of that was true. In a violent and non-intellectual environment of local schools, I got attacked physically and emotionally, and others were not helped physically and emotionally for that reason as well.  My unawareness destroyed some real, some potential friendships. I was like a half-conscious person, hiding away from the cruel world. I had to battle my unawareness, indifference, and fear, a lot of fear. It's all better now, though still far from perfection. I'm working on it, that's important.

And... I had been proven wrong on many mathemathical tests. I'm rather a philosopher, linguist, writer, graphic, musical listener, and so on.
Of course, there is much more of things I could mention, but I lack both time and memory right now.

natural wrote:

In my line of work, I'm proven wrong several times per day. I write a bit of code, compile and test, and oops, there's a bug. I thought it would work, but it doesn't.

Writing software will pretty much humble anyone who thinks they are purely logical.

Yeah, several years of game development taught me that as well. Sometimes I give up on complete understanding of a program I wrote myself and I just modify it intuitively to achieve the results Smiling (it's mostly with artistic programs, not usually)


Btw, your self-correcting achievements are very nice, congratulations.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


Badbark
Posts: 94
Joined: 2008-01-14
User is offlineOffline
I used to believe in the

I used to believe in the bible, but then I read it.


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
As someone who is abysmally

As someone who is abysmally bad at math, I once very smarmily told an instructor, a school administrator, a parent and a step-parent that with the advent of calculators there was no point in teaching or learning how to do complex math by hand.

As someone who was (well, still is Sticking out tongue) rather lazy, and disinterested in doing homework, I convinced myself that attaining a high school diploma was unimportant, that university was a waste of time and largely just a cash cow for elitists and that having credentials proved absolutely nothing.

As someone naive of history, I was convinced that a utopian society was perfectly attainable so long as we just 'fixed' certain things.

 

I consider those my biggest three blunders up to this point. Of course, there are countless other errors I make on a daily basis, from typos to

incorrect assumptions / interpretations... but those are more or less to too numerous  to count. Sticking out tongue

 

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
 Quote: but those are more

 

Quote:
 but those are more or less to numerous to count. Sticking out tongue

That should read: "but those are more or less too numerous to count.

 

(I'm just trying to help.)

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
And Big Brother always

And Big Brother always appreciates your help.

 

As a demonstration of His appreciation, citizen, He is even going to increase your current weekly treated water ration from 3 Litres to 1 Litre. How gracious of Him!

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Posts: 5492
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
You mean from 1 litre to 3

You mean from 1 litre to 3 litres.

 

I want a kitten.

 

 

 

 

 


Topher
Topher's picture
Posts: 513
Joined: 2006-09-10
User is offlineOffline
 A few things...- I once

 A few things...

- I once accepted for a brief period (< 6 months) that 9/11 conspiracy idea (after watching Loose Change). After reading about it further and discussing it online I had no choice but to drop it.

- After watching that Moon hoax show I was drawn into that, but again, after discussing it online I simply couldn't accept it any longer.

- Man made climate change. Although I accepted climate change was a reality, I doubted human involvement.

All of this (at least the first two) was before I considered myself a skeptic and atheist. Years ago before I had any interest in this I was interested in things like UFO, big foot, rods, etc etc. Not being skeptically minded I was gullible to say the least.

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" -- Carl Sagan


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5939
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Just a note - I would be

Just a note - I would be happier if the title of the OP was "...accept that they might be wrong."

I honestly can't think of a clear example, at least with regard to significant beliefs about the world, ie, other than all the day-to-day mistakes one makes.

I normally take in ideas conditionally, as currently the best available information, and adjust the details whenever I come across new information - I can't readily bring to mind any major reversal of a position strongly held, since I only hold positions strongly when the accumulation of evidence has been overwhelming, such as the manifest absurdity of virtually any idea of 'God' as other than a metaphorical or allegorical concept.

So in a sense I change my mind all the time, it just requires new information which is sufficently compelling and consistent with my basic sense of the way the world seems to work, as I have observed though my life experience.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Balkoth
Posts: 118
Joined: 2008-11-25
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple wrote:You mean

I was raised Roman Catholic.  Enough said on that front.

I used to absolutely hate alchohol in any shape or form due to alcohol related issues within my family when I was younger.  I'm still not fond of it and don't drink, but I've managed to get away from a knee-jerk emotional reaction...I think.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

You mean from 3 litre to 1 litres.

 

I want a kitten.

Big Brother would like to point out his appreciation for echoing an earlier comment, but is disturbed that due to mechanical difficulties, your post seems to be different from the direct quote.  He would appreciate it if you changed your decrease from 1 to 3 to the proper increase from 3 to 1 to help citizens.

Big Brother would never decrease your water ration from 1 to 3 litres.  Big Brother cares.


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Posts: 5492
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
BobSpence1 wrote:Just a note

BobSpence1 wrote:

Just a note - I would be happier if the title of the OP was "...accept that they might be wrong."

 

Well, in order to accept that you might be wrong, would imply that if you were wrong, you'll admit it.

 

I accept that I might be wrong on everything, doesn't mean that I'm right.


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
Quote:Until a couple of

Quote:
Until a couple of weeks ago, I thought that firing an employee for stealing from the company safe would be sufficient to invalidate claims for unemployment.  Then I got hit with a notice that I have to pay her a hundred dollars a week for thirteen weeks to thank her for stealing from me.  It's under appeal, but the legal system is a son of a bitch, and she stole less than a hundred dollars.

...I do not wish to derail a thread, so perhaps we could create another one for this tangent (or take it to PM), but I'm very curious:

 

Why does every employer have and attempt to enforce the 'no theft' rule, typically discharging employees after a single offense (however minor)? By no means am I a thief, but this seems like a very oddly naive rule: I mean, surely you don't honestly believe that the one girl in question is the only one who has ever stolen from your business?

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Topher
Topher's picture
Posts: 513
Joined: 2006-09-10
User is offlineOffline
BobSpence1 wrote:I normally

BobSpence1 wrote:
I normally take in ideas conditionally, as currently the best available information, and adjust the details whenever I come across new information - I can't readily bring to mind any major reversal of a position strongly held, since I only hold positions strongly when the accumulation of evidence has been overwhelming, such as the manifest absurdity of virtually any idea of 'God' as other than a metaphorical or allegorical concept.

So in a sense I change my mind all the time, it just requires new information which is sufficently compelling and consistent with my basic sense of the way the world seems to work, as I have observed though my life experience.

"A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence" -- David Hume

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" -- Carl Sagan


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5939
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

BobSpence1 wrote:

Just a note - I would be happier if the title of the OP was "...accept that they might be wrong."

 

Well, in order to accept that you might be wrong, would imply that if you were wrong, you'll admit it.

 

I accept that I might be wrong on everything, doesn't mean that I'm right.

Of course.

I just see my words as a better way to express the thought - in many situations, the rights and wrongs of the different ideas are not known absolutely, can often not be established definitively, whereas "...must be willing to accept that they're wrong" implies that the issue has been settled.

The idea should apply even when you can't prove that they are wrong, which is much of the time.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Jormungander
atheistScience Freak
Jormungander's picture
Posts: 938
Joined: 2008-07-15
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple wrote:You mean

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

You mean from 1 litre to 3 litres.

It is a 1984 reference. They learn that their saccarin rations are being increased to a smaller amount that they were originally. I don't remember exactly, but their coffee might have gotten a similar 'increase.'

It seems you will need to go to minijust and revieve a double plus ungood reeducation. Don't worry, after Room 101 you too will love Big Brother and understand that 1>3 and 1<3.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Posts: 5492
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
Jormungander wrote:It is a

Jormungander wrote:

It is a 1984 reference. They learn that their saccarin rations are being increased to a smaller amount that they were originally. I don't remember exactly, but their coffee might have gotten a similar 'increase.'

It seems you will need to go to minijust and revieve a double plus ungood reeducation. Don't worry, after Room 101 you too will love Big Brother and understand that 1>3 and 1<3.

 

 

I read that book in grade 11 and all I can remember is that the mirrors on the wall or something had cameras in them.

 

 

 

 

 


Rich Woods
Rational VIP!
Rich Woods's picture
Posts: 868
Joined: 2008-02-06
User is offlineOffline
Being wrong. It's what I do

Being wrong. It's what I do best.


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Posts: 5492
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
Another thing recently

Another thing recently crossed my mind after re-reading Bob's post.

 

 

I highly doubt that  everybody "weighs the evidence" on every single little thing they do. The amount of people with no irrational thoughts is 0.

 

So the "I don't believe until the evidence is overwhelming" is rather unlikely unless you're the Rain man.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3945
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple wrote:So the

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

So the "I don't believe until the evidence is overwhelming" is rather unlikely unless you're the Rain man.

I don't see how the rain man.............reference does not compute.

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5939
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple wrote:Another

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Another thing recently crossed my mind after re-reading Bob's post.

I highly doubt that  everybody "weighs the evidence" on every single little thing they do. The amount of people with no irrational thoughts is 0.

So the "I don't believe until the evidence is overwhelming" is rather unlikely unless you're the Rain man.

I, too, observe that people rarely reach conclusions by carefully 'weighing the evidence', it does take some effort to train oneself into doing this more regularly.

I didn't, and normally don't, use the term 'belief' to describe my current state of understanding of the world. Rather I prefer to think of 'working assumptions' to describe the mental models I hold in my mind of how the world (including other people) appears to behave and what affects what. These assumptions are qualified by the confidence I have that they seem to 'work', ie how well they allow me to make successful predictions about the consequences of various actions, mine and others.

I simply say that these assumptions become closest to belng like a 'belief' when the evidence I have encountered and considered appears to me as 'overwhelming'.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
 Humans are built to take

 Humans are built to take mental shortcuts, and all of us certainly do accept a lot of things on insufficient or faulty evidence.  The real question is whether or not we consistently attempt to use empiricism and the scientific method.  Actually, I guess the real question is whether we prioritize well enough to make sure we reason through the important stuff.

If you tell me there are free chicken wings at Wild Wing Cafe during the football game tonight, I'm quite likely to just go there without calling first to double check.  If it's true, I get free wings.  If not, I'll go next door to someplace I like better and pay regular price.  Either way, no biggie.  On the other hand, if you tell me that I can save money by switching to Geico, I'd do well to investigate the claim, especially before cancelling my current insurance.  If I'm wrong and don't do my research, I could pay more for years.

Also, like Bob said, when one thoroughly adopts rationalism, one realizes that we are always working with "the best we can do at the moment."  With luck, we treat our conclusions with a level of skepticism appropriate to their level of empirical support.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


Nordmann
atheist
Nordmann's picture
Posts: 904
Joined: 2008-04-02
User is offlineOffline
My most common fault with

My most common fault with regards getting it wrong is my assumption, upon meeting erudite people who I like, that they are naturally atheistic. I still do it. I'm mostly right, but that just makes those occasions when I'm wrong all the more alarming - and often very funny.

I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy