And God said: “I shall kill to save!”

julio
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And God said: “I shall kill to save!”

And right away he killed two dozens of innocent babies in Bethlehem.

Matthew 2:16.

When later he was asked:

“Did you not have a better plan?!…”,

he replied:

"Yes, yes! Yes, I have my Plan B, in case Plan A fails:

Total incineration of the universe

and make new heavens and a new Earth!”

And he laughed loud…

No gods with indirect messages to me.


Answers in Gene...
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Kind of makes one wonder

Kind of makes one wonder just how many even worse universes god had to go through before he got to one that is only so messed up that he can let one family escape his holy eraser (Lot and Sodom, Noah and the flood)?

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aiia
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But, but, but an omniscient

But, but, but an omniscient being does not make mistakes

Why do theists miss the obvious?


julio
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(As I posted this at another

(As I posted this at another forum)
Why did God not choose a better plan to avoid the killing of innocent babies by a brutal tyrant like Herod?
I've thought many times that Jesus could have been born somewhere else; or the magi not come to agitate Herod, etc.
On the other hand, the story is told in a false context, one of accretion. In other words, it does not ring true.
I am very, very skeptic about this “fable”, because I do not believe for a second that a God who prophesied about Jesus being the Prince of Peace would start off by KILLING innocent babies!

No gods with indirect messages to me.


RespectfulButBe...
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you're blaming the wrong guy

God gave us free will.  That leads to many bad things.  Would you prefer that we not have free will, then?  I know that I wouldn't.

Anyway, you are misquoting the Bible.  Herod killed all of the children in Bethlehem under two years of age.  It was a monstrous, horrific act, but God did not tell him to do it.  And Herod died shortly thereafter, so it's not as though God wasn't walking the beat.

Once an athiest, now a believer, and always ready to debate issues respectfully.


julio
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Well, that is an almighty

Well, that is an almighty little demiurge that needs to be condemned for a very mediocre plan. There was a better plan, without the magi interfering, or Jesus could have been born in another manger in Egypt or Australia! No god that KILLS innocent people to promote his “Holy Child” is going to escape a severe and just condemnation one day! Count on it.

No gods with indirect messages to me.


Brian37
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When you simply accept that

When you simply accept that "shit happens" both good and bad, it sets you up to observe both the good and bad to find answers.

When the theist(incert lable here) says, "Shit happens" and pawns it off on a god who doesnt take responsibility for what he creates or allows, then blames it all on us, is a fucking self centered monster.

The universe displays exactly what you would expect in a natural world void of superstition. Postulating such fantastical absurd claims doesn't nothing to solve the REAL threats against our survival.

Belief in Thor didn't make Edison invent the light bulb, anymore than protecting a zygote for purely dogmatic superstitious reasons will find cures for Parkensons or Alziemers.

BUT BRIAN we are headed down the fascist road where Hitler did experiments on people.  BULLSHIT! Secular pluralistic governments who maintain the right to dissent and watchdogs over goverment will not allow that to happen.

I am sick of morons who equate science to always being bad because of Sci Fi movies portraying scientists as always being "mad". Yet these same people want to teach that "poof" a rib was magically pulled out of an adult male and turned into a fully grown woman. They want to treat this crap as being on the same par as a sperm and egg. If anything is "mad" it is treating myth as being on the same par as provable reality.

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pauljohntheskeptic
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RespectfulButBelieving

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

God gave us free will.  That leads to many bad things.  Would you prefer that we not have free will, then?  I know that I wouldn't.

Anyway, you are misquoting the Bible.  Herod killed all of the children in Bethlehem under two years of age.  It was a monstrous, horrific act, but God did not tell him to do it.  And Herod died shortly thereafter, so it's not as though God wasn't walking the beat.

Again we have multiple choice legends from which to pick.

Matt - Has the unsupported by history account of the acts of Herod killing babies in Matt 2:16. Josephus and others have no problem discussing all the other crazed acts of Herod in his old age but yet doesn't bring up baby killing. And of course mom, dad and JC flee to Egypt.

Mark - Nada. JC just appears one day.

Luke - After the shepherds come to worship within the days required by the Law of the Lord JC was taken to the Temple 2:23-24. Simeon and Anna both have their ghost revelations upheld in 3:25-38. After the foreskin cutting in the Temple they returned to Galilee and their own city of Nazareth in 3:39.

John - Again there is nada about the event as in Matt or Luke. Instead in John 7: 40 it indicates like a good Fox News story, "some said, shall Christ come out of Galilee?" Fox loves to use, some people say, or some say, or people are saying and not indicate sources but construe the BS has basis. John is like that here. It goes on to say the Christ would come from the seed of David and out of the town of Bethlehem.

So Respectful, why do you not accept that JC and his family went immediately home to Nazareth as in Luke and accept the unproved assertion of baby killing not documented by Jewish writers of the time?

 

 

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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


Cali_Athiest2
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There is no evidence outside

There is no evidence outside the bible that herod had killed any infants. There were many historians documenting that part of the world when this alleged event occured, yet all remain silent on this. It's amazing that no one bothered to write this down into history until many decades later. If someone can show me a contemporary record written by a known historian then I may reconsider my position. Until then, it's as made up as the tower of babel or noah's flood.

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


julio
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Cali_Athiest2 wrote: There

Cali_Athiest2 wrote:

There is no evidence outside the bible that herod had killed any infants. There were many historians documenting that part of the world when this alleged event occured, yet all remain silent on this. It's amazing that no one bothered to write this down into history until many decades later. If someone can show me a contemporary record written by a known historian then I may reconsider my position. Until then, it's as made up as the tower of babel or noah's flood.

I do agree with your point, naturally. However, the event is sacred scripture preachers elaborate on at Christmas, as if they worshiped the greatest god in the cosmos!!…

No gods with indirect messages to me.