Body Image, perfect breasts, and popular misconceptions

Hambydammit
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Body Image, perfect breasts, and popular misconceptions

 As I was browsing through the website Greek Goddess linked in this thread, I found some interesting (if nonscientific) information about what is considered attractive in Hollywood.  

Quote:
What size bra does the average woman wear? According to the book How Big is Big: The Book of Sexual Measurements, published in 1982, meaning the numbers are a bit outdated, the percentage of women who wear each cup size is given in the following table.

 
Cup Size
  
Percentage
of Women
 
 
 
A15
B44
C28
D10
Other3

At that time, the average bra size was a 36B. Many articles on the internet say the most common bra size is now a 36C*. Some bra manufacturers are reported to be saying this, but they are tight lipped about their sales figures. I wasn't able to locate a scientific reference that substantiates this claim. Today, women are more likely to be overweight, so you would expect the average cup size, and band size, to have increased at least a little. For now, lets assume the percentages given above are somewhat close to what women wear today.

So, the average woman has what many women consider small breasts.  Isn't that interesting?  Also, there appears to be a misconception of the representation of women in Hollywood:

Quote:
FHM magazine ran a survey to determine the sexiest woman in the world for 2007. Here is a list of the women who placed in the top 10, and their respective bra size.

 

Eva Longoria Eva Longoria
1. Jessica Alba - 34B
2. 
Keeley Hazell - 32E
3. 
Eva Longoria - 34A 
4. 
Adriana Lima - 34C
5. 
Scarlett Johansson - 34C 
6. 
Hayden Panettiere - 32B 
7. 
Cheryl Tweedy - 36C 
8. 
Angelina Jolie - 36C 
9. 
Emily Scott - 34C
10. 
Elisha Cuthbert
 - 34C

 

 

So, with the exception of Keeley Hazell, who despite being an E cup, is still a 32, nearly every one of the celebrities considered most attractive are within one or two sizes (depending on your interpretation of normal as regards the change since 1982) of the average.

Or, check this out:

Quote:
Top Actress By Total Box Office Gross of all Movies

RankActorBra SizeNo. FilmsAvg B.O. Gross
1Natalie Portman34B10$131,649,658
2Keira Knightley32AA10$103,069,339
3Rachel McAdamsA7$98,839,631
4Cameron Diaz34B21$84,517,934
5Dakota FanningChild Actor9$82,052,743
6Shannon Elizabeth36D7$81,567,271
7Julie Andrews34B19$80,523,262
8Carrie FisherA or B18$79,289,759
9Julia Roberts34B28$75,101,052
10Jada PinkettA15$71,899,097
Based on movies in which actress played a starring role.

 

Top Paid Actresses in 2006:
RankActorBra SizePay
1Nicole Kidman34B$16-17 million
2Reese Witherspoon32B/C?$15 million
3Renee Zellweger34B$15 million
4Drew Barrymore34C$15 million
5Cameron Diaz34B$15 million
6Halle Berry36C$14 million
7Charlize Theron36B$10 million
8Angelina Jolie36C$10 million
9Kirsten Dunst32B$8-10 million
10Jennifier Aniston34B$8 million

 

Not only do we say we like "small breasts" better, we pay women with them better.  So this isn't just idle gossip.  Money makes the world go round, and we have given a hundred and three million dollars to the girl with AAs.  (I put scare quotes on "small breasts" because apparently, they're not small.  They're average.

For those of you who have read my stuff on evolutionary psychology, remember how I've said often that humans find the most beauty in the things that are most average?  If you take a hundred faces and use a computer to "average" them into a composite, nearly everyone will find the result attractive, if not spectacularly interesting.  We find gross deviations from the norm to be unattractive more than attractive.  Should we be surprised that the actresses we find most attractive are the ones that also have average sized breasts?

Finally, isn't it damn interesting how our perceptions of reality can often be so very wrong from the reality that is right in front of our faces?  I'm wondering how many times I've listened to a girl with average breasts complain that they're too small and that men like bigger breasts.   Isn't it curious that the numbers don't back up that assertion?  Even buxom Angelina Jolie is only a 36C.

Anyway, there isn't really a huge point to this.  I just found it really interesting.  After all, it is about boobs.

 

 

 

 

 

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I've said many times that I

I've said many times that I like small breasts: the smaller the better. This is not strictly true, but I've said it because I want to provide a counterweight to all this: "men like them bigger"-nonsense.

I like average breasts.

And if they deviate from the average I prefer they do so to the smaller side, because the bigger they are, the more likely they are to sag when the wonderbra comes off, or to be fake.

I don't intend to hypocritially pretend to be some touchy-feely guy who says: "I only care what's on the inside".

As a matter of fact I DO care what on the inside, but ofcourse I like beauty as much as anyone.

But that means I don't want BIG breasts, I want BEAUTIFUL breasts.

Now it may not be good for a woman's selfasteem to say flatly: "I like them beautiful", but at least it's true, and so, it's at least better than giving her low selfesteem based on the lie: I like them big".

 

I've seen way too many beautiful breasts ruined by that vile lie. For example Christina Aguilera's.

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Hamby I think the first

Hamby I think the first table is what's screwing up your formatting. Try again, perhaps??

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I prefer them on the smaller

I prefer them on the smaller side. Sure the big ones look good in a wonder bra, but when the jello mold comes off, they either lose all shape or tend to look like a couple of softballs hanging in a pair of tube socks.

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Perkiness is everything.

Perkiness is everything. Virtually any size is good if they are perky. Unfortunately the larger they are, they droopier they are. Think of it as a balance between being large enough to look good in bras and being small enough to look good out of them.

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Hambydammit wrote:Anyway,

Hambydammit wrote:
Anyway, there isn't really a huge point to this.  I just found it really interesting.  After all, it is about boobs.

I must say I am quite surprised by some of those numbers.  Most of the women involved I thought were a cup size or two larger than what was given there.  It really shows either the affect of the camera or the makeup/pushup bra work done by the clothing/makeup departments.  Most men I know say B & C is perfect, bigger is too big but it's not surprising there's a stigma behind going bigger.

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Like a couple of others

Like a couple of others here, I prefer smaller breasts. Huge ones just turn me off.

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 Quote:Hamby I think the

 

Quote:
Hamby I think the first table is what's screwing up your formatting. Try again, perhaps??

The formatting appears fine to me, so I wouldn't know what I was changing.  Feel free to tinker with it if you need to.

 

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Hambydammit wrote: Finally,

Hambydammit wrote:
Finally, isn't it damn interesting how our perceptions of reality can often be so very wrong from the reality that is right in front of our faces?  I'm wondering how many times I've listened to a girl with average breasts complain that they're too small and that men like bigger breasts.   Isn't it curious that the numbers don't back up that assertion?  Even buxom Angelina Jolie is only a 36C.

Anyway, there isn't really a huge point to this.  I just found it really interesting.  After all, it is about boobs.

Hamby, I wonder if the desire for small breasts might also be a function of the body types they are attached to. Most of the small breasts I've seen were attached to smaller, more slender women. All of the women on those lists provided are slender. Some of the most sought after women are the famous tennis players, gymnasts, dancers, and actors (who are notoriously physically fit).

So I wonder if body type is really what we're looking at, and cup size is just a byproduct?

 


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 Quote:So I wonder if body

 

Quote:
So I wonder if body type is really what we're looking at, and cup size is just a byproduct?

I suppose it could be.  I know that when men are shown pictures of just breasts without any context clues about the size of the woman they're attached to, smaller beats bigger, but that's probably because smaller breasts tend to be more "youthful" looking... i.e., they don't sag.

What we need, I guess, is a body type study comparing petite girls with big breasts, petite girls with small breasts, bigger girls with big breasts and bigger girls with small breasts.

It doesn't really add any useful information to the universe, but if I'm going to find a chubby girl attractive, she's probably got smaller breasts.  I really just don't know what to do with them when they're huge, and I don't find them all that pleasant to look at.

 

 

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As long as everything else

As long as everything else is well put together, breasts are just icing on the cake to me.  Well, not exactly.  Icing's the only part of cake that I actually enjoy.  But you know what I mean.  The nicest pair I've had direct contact with were very perky, very round C's, but unfortunately there were also cankles involved.  I'm not saying I didn't have a good time, but it was so incongruous, I was really distracted.

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in before over-bearing

in before over-bearing feminist... whats my door prize?


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 Quote:in before

 

Quote:
in before over-bearing feminist... whats my door prize?

Hmmm... maybe you could slap her and put her in her proper place when she does come in?

Actually, the webpage I got this info from was clearly a site devoted to improving women's self image, and I have a hard time imagining feminists objecting to any of it. 

 

 

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Hambydammit wrote:Actually,

Hambydammit wrote:

Actually, the webpage I got this info from was clearly a site devoted to improving women's self image, and I have a hard time imagining feminists objecting to any of it. 

Given our previous discussions, I'm going to imagine that I count for this one.  I don't see anything to object too.  Smiling  

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Quote:Hamby, I wonder if the

Quote:

Hamby, I wonder if the desire for small breasts might also be a function of the body types they are attached to

I would suspect that this is the case. Remember, humans are attracted to symmetry and proportion. If a body is highly out of proportion, it looks distended and unattractive. Thus, if we were to predict the results of such an investigation, I would suspect that for a woman with a smaller figure, smaller breasts would be preferred otherwise she would look oddly out of proportion. Conversely, for a woman with more voluptuous figure, larger breasts would be preferred otherwise she would look oddly out of proportion. This is the same reason that if a skinny girl gets breast implants, it is unlikely to be found very attractive because it looks distended.

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 Quote:Remember, humans are

 

Quote:
Remember, humans are attracted to symmetry and proportion.If a body is highly out of proportion, it looks distended and unattractive.

The other side of this, though, is that there's a hypothesis floating around stating that men like bigger breasts because they are more accurate than small breasts for determining age and health.  Small breasts can stay perky naturally well into a woman's forties or maybe even fifties, but if a woman has large (unaltered) breasts that stand up straight, she's pretty much got to be in her late teens or early twenties.

I'm not a big fan of this hypothesis, primarily because it seems like the whole "men like big boobs" thing is largely a myth.  Even so, there's still a lot of research to be done before we can say anything remotely conclusive.  Too many of the studies I've seen are riddled with bias and assumptions.

 

 

 

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Quote:The other side of

Quote:

The other side of this, though, is that there's a hypothesis floating around stating that men like bigger breasts because they are more accurate than small breasts for determining age and health

I remember that hypothesis. I dismissed it on the grounds that it was over-speculative.

 

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 Quote:I remember that

 

Quote:
I remember that hypothesis. I dismissed it on the grounds that it was over-speculative.

Yeah.  I've noticed that the only articles I've read mentioning this hypothesis never link it to studies.  It's kind of like the one stating that men like women with long hair because long hair is an accurate judge of a woman's health for several years.  It might be true, but I just haven't seen enough evidence that men as a sex really do predominantly prefer long hair, or that they really do differentiate between healthy and unhealthy women by judging hair.

 

 

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I've dated a few women who

I've dated a few women who had perfect breasts. Just perfect. Of course, those women all had different cup sizes. So ...

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HisWillness wrote:I've dated

HisWillness wrote:

I've dated a few women who had perfect breasts. Just perfect. Of course, those women all had different cup sizes. So ...

That's a great point!

My wife is right between c and d, she's tall and thin and they fit us perfectly!

 

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What is it about this thread

What is it about this thread that makes me always want to have Google open in the other tab?

 

Hooray for boobies indeed.

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 I really thought about

 I really thought about ranting about how you're all sexist perverts who shouldn't be basing anything about a woman on her bra size just to be the first one to do it. I couldn't though. I agree with everything you've said and haven't read anthing even slightly offensive about it. I can't wait to see what some other angry women are gonna write though. I'll keep checking back


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This is interesting!I don't

This is interesting!

I don't find myself wishing I had more or less in the boob department but I hear women
constantly complaining that they aren't big enough. Mostly because of the way certain
articles of clothing fit them. The girls with smaller breasts complain that shirts don't fit right in the chest (too much room) Then there are the girls with bigger breasts complain that they have to go up a size to accommodate the girls.

If the bra industry has an understanding of what their 'average' size is I wonder how that affects the clothing industry ( any textile majors out there?)

In my opinion all of the women listed above are beautiful regardless of their cup size. Smiling

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Renee Obsidianwords wrote:In

Renee Obsidianwords wrote:

In my opinion all of the women listed above are beautiful regardless of their cup size. Smiling

 

I agree. I put a pretty face before everything else. But even when we move onto talking about the sexiness of specific body parts, I'm a foot/leg person before I'm a boob person. =]

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 In general, "butterfaces"

 In general, "butterfaces" don't fare all that well regardless of breast size.  Typically, the problem with a butterface is going to be symmetry or disproportionate features, and we absolutely care more (in general) about pretty faces than boob size.

Oh, ok... I'll tell you.  A butterface is a girl of whom southern men say, "Everything 'bout her's smokin' hot... butterface..."

 

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 That's not just southern

 That's not just southern men, my friend.


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 Where I'm from, we refer

 

Where I'm from, we refer to that as "paper bag ugly", as opposed to regular ugly.

 

The term refers to how easy it would be to have sex with her if she only had a paper bag over her head.

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 Cruel, but often true.

 Cruel, but often true. Also, a paper bag over her bad attitude.

Actually, while we're at it, a paper bag over her stupid. That would be good.

Apparently, it's not just the face for me.

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HisWillness

HisWillness wrote:

Apparently, it's not just the face for me.

...or the boobs.

 

Damn you Will, you male chauvinist!

 

You insist your women be both smart and friendly and have a hot face and body!

 

How dare you!?!

 

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HisWillness wrote: Cruel,

HisWillness wrote:

 Cruel, but often true. Also, a paper bag over her bad attitude.

Actually, while we're at it, a paper bag over her stupid. That would be good.

Apparently, it's not just the face for me.

There aren't enough paper bags to cover everybody's stupidity...

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HisWillness wrote: Cruel,

HisWillness wrote:

 Cruel, but often true. Also, a paper bag over her bad attitude.

Actually, while we're at it, a paper bag over her stupid. That would be good.

Apparently, it's not just the face for me.

 

Here's your shopping list:

 

1. Paper Bag

2. Ball Gag

3. Chloroform (last resort)

 

Now you're all set!

 

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Archeopteryx wrote:Here's

Archeopteryx wrote:


Here's your shopping list:

 

1. Paper Bag

2. Ball Gag

3. Chloroform (last resort)

 

Now you're all set!

You know what you are sir?

Do you!?!

A romantic, that's what *you* are.


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marcusfish

marcusfish wrote:

Archeopteryx wrote:

 

Here's your shopping list:

 

1. Paper Bag

2. Ball Gag

3. Chloroform (last resort)

 

Now you're all set!

You know what you are sir?

Do you!?!

A romantic, that's what *you* are.

 

    

 

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Nikolaj wrote:Damn you Will,

Nikolaj wrote:

Damn you Will, you male chauvinist!

You insist your women be both smart and friendly and have a hot face and body!

and be a six-foot-tall strawberry blonde with blue-green eyes named Lila.

Sigh.

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.

Hambydammit wrote:

At that time, the average bra size was a 36B. Many articles on the internet say the most common bra size is now a 36C*. Some bra manufacturers are reported to be saying this, but they are tight lipped about their sales figures. I wasn't able to locate a scientific reference that substantiates this claim. Today, women are more likely to be overweight, so you would expect the average cup size, and band size, to have increased at least a little. For now, lets assume the percentages given above are somewhat close to what women wear today.

If we were to attribute it to obesity we would expect 36B to go to 38C or 40C.

But when it comes with male preference I presume I speak for the majority when I say two.

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 Nony, it's an average,

 Nony, it's an average, kiddo.  The average could easily move to a 36C.  That doesn't mean that every individual 36B boob in the world grew to a 36C.  It means that when you took all the boobs in the survey, the average cup size was C and the average band size was 36.  

In fact, this number makes sense if it is obesity because females tend to store excess fat in the hips, breasts, and face before anywhere else.  The band size is a measure of the circumference of the chest under the breasts.  The ribcage is one of the last places a female is going to store excess fat, so we would expect it to stay approximately the same if there were say, a 5 or 6% increase in body fat.  The breasts themselves, on the other hand, would be expected to grow, and this would be reflected in the cup size, which has gone from a B to a C.

 

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Hambydammit wrote: Nony,

Hambydammit wrote:

 Nony, it's an average, kiddo.  The average could easily move to a 36C.  That doesn't mean that every individual 36B boob in the world grew to a 36C.  It means that when you took all the boobs in the survey, the average cup size was C and the average band size was 36.  

In fact, this number makes sense if it is obesity because females tend to store excess fat in the hips, breasts, and face before anywhere else.  The band size is a measure of the circumference of the chest under the breasts.  The ribcage is one of the last places a female is going to store excess fat, so we would expect it to stay approximately the same if there were say, a 5 or 6% increase in body fat.  The breasts themselves, on the other hand, would be expected to grow, and this would be reflected in the cup size, which has gone from a B to a C.

When men get fat they get fat in the waist first. When women get fat they get fat all over like blowing up a balloon. I am sure you have noticed this. If married I know you have heard about it. If larger breasts are attributed to obesity then one expect all other circumferential measurements to increase.

Or there is an estrogen analog in our food which increases breast size and lowers male sperm count.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

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Hambydammit
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 Quote:When men get fat

 

Quote:
When men get fat they get fat in the waist first. When women get fat they get fat all over like blowing up a balloon. I am sure you have noticed this. If married I know you have heard about it. If larger breasts are attributed to obesity then one expect all other circumferential measurements to increase.

Or there is an estrogen analog in our food which increases breast size and lowers male sperm count.

Christ on a pogo stick, Nony.  Is this how you do all your logic?  

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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HisWillness
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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

 

Quote:
When men get fat they get fat in the waist first. When women get fat they get fat all over like blowing up a balloon. I am sure you have noticed this. If married I know you have heard about it. If larger breasts are attributed to obesity then one expect all other circumferential measurements to increase.

Or there is an estrogen analog in our food which increases breast size and lowers male sperm count.

Christ on a pogo stick, Nony.  Is this how you do all your logic?  

I thought the wife bit was funny. And xenoestrogens really are leeching into bottled water. They have been for ages.

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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 Sorry, Will.  It just

 Sorry, Will.  It just offends my scientific sensibilities deeply when someone tries to argue like that:

A: Statistic X, Y, Z, likely cause/correlation L

B: Yeah, but wives get fat... and there's shit in the water.

That's not an argument.  It's just tossing shit out there.  Yeah, maybe there's a correlation between chemicals in drinking water, but that's not an argument unless somebody's looked at it scientifically.  It's just speculation, and it doesn't address the initial claim, nor does it address my very valid point that the last place women are going to put on fat is around the ribcage, which is where the band is measured.  Women have gotten fatter since the 80s.  Significantly.  Is anyone going to honestly suggest that it hasn't had an effect on breast size?  Really?

 

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Hambydammit wrote:Sorry,

Hambydammit wrote:
Sorry, Will.  It just offends my scientific sensibilities deeply when someone tries to argue like that:

That's not an argument.

Very true. I'm poking you with the virtual stick, I'm sure you realize.

Hambydammit wrote:
It's just tossing shit out there.  Yeah, maybe there's a correlation between chemicals in drinking water, but that's not an argument unless somebody's looked at it scientifically.

Oh ho! What, we need data or something? What are you, some kind of Data Nazi? All I have to say is that the Juice is getting some xenoestrogens in it, and you know we have to get rid of the Juice.

...

Is this mic on?

Hambydammit wrote:
Women have gotten fatter since the 80s.  Significantly.  Is anyone going to honestly suggest that it hasn't had an effect on breast size?  Really? 

I blame the juice. A_Nony_Mouse definitely blames the juice.

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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 You like a da juice? You

 You like a da juice? 

You like a da juice?

I'll get you some juice.  Da juice is a good!

 

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A_Nony_Mouse
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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

 

Quote:
When men get fat they get fat in the waist first. When women get fat they get fat all over like blowing up a balloon. I am sure you have noticed this. If married I know you have heard about it. If larger breasts are attributed to obesity then one expect all other circumferential measurements to increase.

Or there is an estrogen analog in our food which increases breast size and lowers male sperm count.

Christ on a pogo stick, Nony.  Is this how you do all your logic?  

Logic? Socratic logic might appeal to you. The rest of us actually count the teeth in the jaw of an ass.

Upon actually observing the difference between the sexes in the way they get fat and, should you care, looking at how size charts for clothing work for women, you will discover the same thing.

I also take it you are not married and have not heard the plaintif wail of the female when clothes don't fit all over.

To make it simpler, how many women with "beer bellies" only have you seen?

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Hambydammit wrote: Sorry,

Hambydammit wrote:

 Sorry, Will.  It just offends my scientific sensibilities deeply when someone tries to argue like that:

A: Statistic X, Y, Z, likely cause/correlation L

B: Yeah, but wives get fat... and there's shit in the water.

That's not an argument.  It's just tossing shit out there.  Yeah, maybe there's a correlation between chemicals in drinking water, but that's not an argument unless somebody's looked at it scientifically.  It's just speculation, and it doesn't address the initial claim, nor does it address my very valid point that the last place women are going to put on fat is around the ribcage, which is where the band is measured.  Women have gotten fatter since the 80s.  Significantly.  Is anyone going to honestly suggest that it hasn't had an effect on breast size?  Really?

Observation says it affects band size also. Breasts are primarily mammary ducts with the same layer of fat women have all over. There is no particular reason women would get fatter in the breasts before anyplace else. Women's skin is only slightly softer than than of men. Mainly what you feel is the layer of fat under the skin that makes it feel softer.

This is all old stuff. I am surprised you folks are not aware of it.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

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www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:The rest

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

The rest of us actually count the teeth in the jaw of an ass.

 

We what?

 

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The Doomed Soul

The Doomed Soul wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The rest of us actually count the teeth in the jaw of an ass.
We what?

We count. It is an esoteric art one step below, we baron.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml