Descartes Meditations on Belief.

Tapey
atheist
Tapey's picture
Posts: 1474
Joined: 2009-01-23
User is offlineOffline
Descartes Meditations on Belief.

If anyone is familiar With Descartes six days of meditatrion can you explain in Descartes mind what beliefs we are most justified for holding and why and what beliefs we are least justified for holding and why?

 

 

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
Yah, everything up to Cogito

Yah, everything up to Cogito Ergo Sum is fine.  After that, you have to watch the first Matrix movie.  If Morpheus is God, then the rest of it is fine.  If he is just some guy, then Descartes is lost past that point.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


Luminon
SuperfanTheist
Luminon's picture
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2008-02-17
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Yah, everything up to Cogito Ergo Sum is fine.  After that, you have to watch the first Matrix movie.  If Morpheus is God, then the rest of it is fine.  If he is just some guy, then Descartes is lost past that point.

Do you mean all is fine including Cogito ergo sum?
Because it is a basic meditational truth, that the identity nor existence doesn't cease with not thinking. Thought process is diffcult to calm down, but when it happens, the feeling of total presence is more intense than ever. This is why the mystics suggests, that "me" is not a stream of thoughts, it is an observing presence, which is usually covered by the thoughts.

I hope that his other works are better than that.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
Well yes, the cogito is

Well yes, the cogito is fine.

 

Past that you should know that I was into the occult for several years after I turned my back on xtianity.

 

What you are speaking of is only intermediate to much deeper levels of meditation. I will not tell you about that. I can't because you are not yet ready to understand where you can go.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3705
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
Tapey wrote:If anyone is

Tapey wrote:

If anyone is familiar With Descartes six days of meditatrion can you explain in Descartes mind what beliefs we are most justified for holding and why and what beliefs we are least justified for holding and why? 

Descartes goes from

1) The cogito/soul/mind

to

2) The existence of God

to

3) The existence of the material world.

The logic of Descartes' Meditations imploded between 1) and 2). Unfortunately, he wasn't aware of it. 

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
Yah, everything up to Cogito Ergo Sum is fine.  After that, you have to watch the first Matrix movie.  If Morpheus is God, then the rest of it is fine.  If he is just some guy, then Descartes is lost past that point.

Hmmm, my philosophy class just went over Descartes, and this is still bothering me. There is an alternate interpretation which leaves out the "Ergo," based on the reasoning that since the all-powerful demon can destroy our ability to reason, we cannot state, "I think, therefore I am," since that would utilize reason.

Additionally, Descartes concluded in Meditations Two that the evil demon was not all-powerful since it couldn't trick Descartes into thinking that he didn't think or exist. However, this refutation didn't seem to be warranted in the first place because if the evil demon that he proposed were truly all-powerful, then, certainly, it should be able to trick him into thinking that he was thinking even when he's not thinking. The way I worded that was probably internally inconsistent, but the bottom line is, if the evil demon could destroy our reasoning, then why couldn't it tamper with our most basic instincts? Why couldn't it trick us into believing that the Cogito was true, axiomatically?

Bleh...

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


Tapey
atheist
Tapey's picture
Posts: 1474
Joined: 2009-01-23
User is offlineOffline
 I don't understand either

 I don't understand either but I choose to draw the line at thinking a demon is causing me to think that im thinking while im not thinking.

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


Luminon
SuperfanTheist
Luminon's picture
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2008-02-17
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Well yes, the cogito is fine.

 

Past that you should know that I was into the occult for several years after I turned my back on xtianity.

 

What you are speaking of is only intermediate to much deeper levels of meditation. I will not tell you about that. I can't because you are not yet ready to understand where you can go.

 

I'm into occult like less or more for the most of my life, (natural inclination) and my parents have their 25 years of practice. In last years we perform a very specific group meditation which is extremely efficient and doesn't need a deep concentration, only a certain degree of focus to make it work, and then hold it. I don't deny that there are much deeper levels. However, I have no idea on what basis you consider my readiness. It is theoretically possible that your practice will be inferior to what I have available, especially if it has anything to do with astral nature.
I have also done and seen occult things, which theoretically might impress you. I say theoretically, because you didn't identify yourself by any way, what were/are you into exactly and how successfully. We might clarify that in a private message conversation, (to not disturb Descartes' ghost by spamming HIS place) if you wish. I certainly wish.

 

 

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.