Oh? What's your theory, Brian?

I don't think Obama will be any friend to the religious right, that's for sure.

Atheism is still political suicide, so it doesn't surprise me that Obama drops the G-bomb liberally.

I don't have an applause track handy, but if I did, I'd be playing it right now.

True enough. We're just gossiping, though. It's not a formal statement.

Aw. No reason to be mean. We aren't all fickle.

So far the only evidence is his word saying he is Christian. He also used a quote from 1 Coriithians in his speech. 

He is taking a quite different approach even if he is Christian, tolerance and understanding. He gets that he is the President of all Americans including atheists that supported him or as he says non-believers.

Exactly. I agree with you.

 I'm more of the opinion that the Obama's are Christians in the same sense that most people in Scandinavia are.  Get baptized, get married in the church, have a cross on your flag, declare yourself to be a Christian for the purpose of census-taking... but that's about it.  Both of them are very well educated and very bright, so it seems unlikely that they could have gone to Jeremiah Wright's wacky daishiki church for as long as they did without most of their tongues stuck firmly in cheek.  In my experience, the average working class African American is about as comfortable with persons indifferent (much less, hostile) to religion as he is with homosexuals, so any attempt to be a community leader in Chicago's black community and not to be a member of a black church would have been like trying to start a fire with a pile of wet newspaper.  There's a line in the new testament menacingly referring to persons who act religiously so that they might be "seen among men" or some such; that sounds about right in this case.

I'll add to the case of his parents by saying that while it's likely that his mother was an atheist, his father being one doesn't matter, because he was never around the kid.

I think nearly every theist is a closet atheist. Even Rick Warren, he basically only "believes" because it  is a better bet(and he gets more fame and money). From his debate with Sam Harris:

So he looked at Pascal's wager and thinks he can fool the almighty about believing even though he can't fool us mere mortals.

Michelle Obama is either a bad actor or she has a hard time lying to herself.

That certainly is true, but there are cracks in that theocratic thinking in that Keith Elleson swore in on a Koran once owned by Thomas Jefferson. Pete Stark, is an atheist who took the oath and is in our congress.

The point is it doesn't have to stay that way. The Consitition is on our side if we raise our voices in the same way prior minorities struggled to become part of the political mainstreem. Christians wont do that for us, we have to do it ourselves.

It may shock some here that there have been open atheists, even on our Supreme Court. But most people dont know that because there is a collective ignorance of the Constitution.

If you look at the times of when the Constitution was written, and even that the founders used those superflous words that are not manditory, they were doing what they had to to remain politically viable. I have no doubt that even though they did it as strictly a display, I can see how forward thinking they were for the future in that Obama had the oportunity, as a President to make comments in his address about citizens being citizens no matter their label.

I am really big on this issue and do think long term, that if the secular community, including religious people who agree with us that Jefferson's wall needs to be built back up, that if we put forth the effort to get the word out about the oath and "no religious test" we can be politically viable as a label.

I have seen what using the First Amendment has done for our label in that in 01 atheists were merely a blurb in the background, to having several best selling authors, tons of websites and even a documentary about religion on the big screen.

I am saying by merely using the same tools theists have used we can win this ideological war, and not only open up the doors of government to atheists, but all citizens no matter their label.

It doesn't have to remain political suicide to claim something else other than Christian. Keith Elleson did it, Pete Stark did it, and with every voice, every post, every letter to the editor, pointing out the truth of the words in the Consitution, long term, we can and will win.

I am going on a bit, but seeing where this country once was as far as minorities, women, blacks, gays, we don't have to remain at the back of the bus if we chose not to.

 "No Religious Test" is on our side as well as all citizens. This is not an atheist cause, this is Constitutional cause that opens doors for all who meet the Constitutional requirements to hold office.

Don't think short term on this. It may not happen in our lifetimes, but if all reading this keep pushing, your kids or your grandkids, could potentially see a president, on video, take the oath as an open atheist, or Jew, or Muslim ect ect ect. It will happen if we keep plugging away.

I'm not saying this is evidence that he's an atheist, but it's certainly evidence that he is not your typical Christian: http://www.rationalresponders.com/Obama_mocks_buybull

In comes RRS to the rescuuuueeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

By all accounts Abraham Lincoln was an atheist as evidenced by some of his personal writings and those of friends and family who knew him intimately.  He resisted mentioning god in several speeches and only used the reference at the behest of his wife and others who knew he would not be received well without it.

Most of the Founding Fathers were deists and not christians.  Many were openly hostile to the christian religion but professed a faith in one god, though not the christian version.  Hence, the secular government that was set up in spite of pressure from a few to install christianity as the official fantasy of this country.  Jefferson was frequently accused of being an atheist more than once.

Obama very likely could be an out and out atheist but is smart enough to know probably most christians are superstitous enough to let their beliefs cloud their judgement.  After all, christianity is anything but rational.  In this day and age of christian fantasy it is almost certain he would not have been elected to office especially with right wing christianity churning out historical and scientific lies as fast as Hostess churns out Twinkies.

While I am continually appalled at the mention of god/religion in political discourse I am hopeful that Obama, even if he does believe the tripe of christianity, will not let such superstition cloud his rational judgement of what needs to be done in bringing this country back to it's secular foundation and making it great once again.

There mere fact he mentions god does not mean he believes in such fantasies, nor does his background mean he is an athiest.  I am hopeful, however.  If he is an atheist and gets re-elected without it coming out as such, I do hope he doesn't wait until the end of his second term to let the world know about his non-belief.  I would like to hear such an announcement within days of his re-election.  That way christians would have four years of anxiety over having an infidel as their leader.  We could hear them make all their predictions of doom only to be let down in the end.

You could say "Yeah that's right, he is a muslim.  He and I are in Al Queda together as well.  It was our intention to blow up any building full of employees who were on to the fact that he is a muslim.  Oh wait, I wasn't supposed to say that.  Um, nevermind, I mean, he and I are jews.  We're jews."

I usually tell people "If Obama is a Muslim then I'm the Pope. I haven't boffed any toddlers so I'm way out of the running to be Pope"

wow, im not one to condemn,in fact i dont think im suppose to, but i hope hell's nice. I bet you all think you are intellectuals and have the answer for everything. some of you probably are intellectuals and are just too smart for your own good. I see hypocrisy in religion, but it was put in by men with their own interests in mind. Leaders throughout time have used religion to fool the masses into wars, but none have truly been started because of religion. You people point out the dates of the religious, mainly christian, holidays and how they match all sorts of religous holidays througout history and that is because they are pagan. nowhere in the bible does it say Jesus was born on Dec. 25 or crucified in April. Details in the bible lead experts to believe he was born in spring. The big bang is in the bible if you wonder about creation, and when you take many verses in the bible so  literally, you can't see this written plain as day. I'm sorry if an experience you people have had has turned you off to God, but you really shouldn't be so bold in your statements. Ya'll do not even worry about the just in case factor. I'm no angel or even a "church-going" christian as i don't like the hypocrisy and peoples self-righteous arrogance. Just don't let your brain and you're ego lead you to true ignorance. i will not be back on this site so if you would lke to reply to me my e-mail is [email protected].

Here's what I'm e-mailing back:

Actually you'll find that most people on this site are willing to admit the areas of life where they do have ignorance.  It is the theist who claims to have an answer to everything.

So you have a problem with people pointing out the truth?  I'm sorry but your point is not clear here.

If this book is supposed to be the word of a god I would expect that what it says would be quite clear.  Why do we have to figure out how to interpret the words instead of taking them at face value if they are perfect?

I will be as bold in my statements as the evidence I have found leads me to be.  If I know 2+2 = 4 then there is no reason to equivocate and state "Except for the occasional times someone wants 2+2=5."  That would be absurd.

This is known as Pascal's Wager.  I suggest you read this:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/sapient/atheist_vs_theist/3687 

Then I suggest you concentrate further on what your fellow christians have to say.  Hypocrite means saying one thing yet acting in a different manner.  While atheists can certainly be hypocrites I generally find this to be more common amongst christians.  Arrogance is assuming you have all answers, which, again, applies to christians saying god did all.  Those who are interested in critical thinking will admit when they don't know an answer.

Hit and run posting is not going to help you understand what this site is devoted to.  If you are truly so concerned, I suggest you come back and interact with the people on the boards.  If you are at all intimidated, please look for the Kill 'em with Kindness Section of the boards.  Otherwise, I've heard all this before and you are not saying anything new.

He also didn't use a Buy-bull during his second swearing in. The Chief Just-ass flubbed his lines during the first public ceremony, so they had a second private ceremony. So I'm guessing that it's not all that an important book to him.

/fans flames