Thoughts about visions
Posted on: January 16, 2009 - 2:47pm
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Thoughts about visions
This question is not badgering or mockery; this is an honest thought from somone who is looking for answers. I would like to know what your opinions on visions and prophecy are. I'm referring to people who claim they have received specific visions and the visions turn out to be correct. I know that prophecy in general tends to be broad and too hard to pin-point, but some of it seems to be scary when it is so precise. Does anyone have an explanation for visions or prophetic happenings? How can one receive insights like this without some kind of divine or supernatural inspiration? Any input would be appreciated.
Example:
http://touchheaven.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemid=58
Also scroll to the bottom.
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Every year in January a buddy and I share our visions of the comming year.
The Earth will continue to rotate. This will make it seem like the sun rises and sets. There will be a scandel. Famous people will die. There will be war. There will be disease. There will be a plane crash. Species will become extinct. There will be hot weather. There will be cold weather. There will be storms. There will be earthquakes. There will be a volcanic eruption.
Does anyone doubt that I can predict the future?
From many possibilities come many guesses and actualities, which sometimes correlate—such is statistically inevitable in a purely natural universe. Many people, because of wishful thinking and ignorance of statistics, interpret them as evidence of prophetic powers, but it's only wishful thinking.
Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!
You want answers? Too much LSD, opium and Extra Strength Tylenol cough syrup.
Oh shit, I'm getting a vision. Better intensify it. *chugs a bottle of Nyquil*
"It is fortold that the master race of spiders will infest thine bowels and lay eggs. As it is forseen, bears shall fly around the moon and ducks shall recite Unsolved Mysteries dialogue from Robert Stack. It is done."
Time for a beer...
You guys may have fun of it, but the prophecies are actually a bit mysterious thing. In the magazine Share International there were around the years 1982-1989 or something like that a prophecies about a near future.
For example, that Saddam Hussen will release prisoners, that George Bush senior will not be re-elected, that Israeli soldiers will pull off Gaza bank, or that there will be a major stock market crash.
As for the stock market crash, it happened exactly a month after the prophecy, (asian economic crisis, if I remember) but the system withstood it, until now, when the promised major crash really occured. There was more prophecies like that, who has the interest may search them up in some library, or write SI for their list. I think these are specific enough and a lot of them already happened.
How the prophecies are technically possible? Share International tries to explain it on the cosmology of planes of existence. There is multiple dimensions within our world, each is finer-than-material and gradually finer than the other, they're like arranged linearly on a frequency spectrum. They're practically a partially separated worlds, with their own physical laws, forms of life, events, and so on. And the trick is, that a major events first happens in the 'higher' dimensions (planes of existence) and they gradually precipitate or soak down into lower 'planes of existence', and finally into the lowest, which is ours, material. If there are beings who can see the 'higher' dimensions or lives there, they can see the events happen in advance and give a prophecy to us, beings living in 'lower' dimension. Then the event precipitates to us and we see it as a fulfilled prophecy, but it's not like that, the event already happened, it just waited for a 'window of opportunity', to manifest itself in our physical universe.
So this is how they say it works. You see, it's nothing which could be said scientifically, but at least they're giving it some rules, not just goddidit. Of course, a more full understanding of what and how exactly is going on in that kind of cosmology, that would require a longer study, which nobody here will probably bother. I just say the theory I heard.
Btw, what is here meant by visions? Prophetic visions, or normal visions? (hallucinations with closed eyes)
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Don't forget flashbacks, too! Those are really freaky.
"I am that I am." - Proof that the writers of the bible were beyond stoned.
A few little problems with the ' prophecy ' mentioned on the link the OP offered.
1. There is no trustworthy time stamp. Sure, it says that it was sent on Saturday, October 04, 2008 10:15 AM, but anyone can write anything. In fact, I can write that I replied to this on December 16, 1776 11:13 PM. See? I just did! From their site alone, we have no way of knowing when the alleged e-mail was actually sent, or indeed if it was actually sent at all.
2. The site claims that the Samburu district had received no rainfall for months, but the Kenyan Monthly Drought Bulletin from Oct 2008 shows on page 3 that they had 3.23cm ( 1.27in ) of rain in July, 1.87cm ( .74in ) in August, and 1.51cm ( .59in ) in September. This is not much, but it is simply not true that they had no rain for months.
http://www.aridland.go.ke/bullentins/2008/oct/samburu.pdf
3. October is the start of Kenyas second wave of rainfall, with the first wave usually running from March through May. The 2008 ' short rains ' were predicted accurately by meteorologists in early September. Anyone with access to the Weather Channel could have ' predicted ' these rains, just as anyone living in the region would be familiar with the rain cycles there.
http://meteo-kenya.net/Wx/Monthly.pdf
The second ' prophecy ' is wrought with errors.
1. Son of Sam was David Richard Berkowitz, not Sam Berkowitz.
2. Other than the link provided by the OP, there is no reference that I can find anywhere in writing about any Frank Amedia or any alleged prophecies he may have made.
3. Berkowitz converted to Christianity in prison in 1987 while reading from a Gideon pocket Bible given to him by a fellow inmate. Daryll Scott had nothing to do with it.
4. Rachel Scott, a Colombine shooting victim, was alleged to have professed a belief in God before receiving a fatal shot to the head. This claim was allegedly made by another victim, Richard Castaldo. however in a 1999 Time interview, Richard denied ever saying this. Daryll Scott is a former Pastor and religious zealot that advocates school prayer. Though he has made many claims about his daughter's supposed prophecies in her diary, he has never presented proof of any of his claims. He is agenda driven and as we can see, obviously willing to put words into his deceased daughters mouth that she never uttered.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,992875-2,00.html
5. To the best of my knowledge, Alice Cooper, a born again Christian, does not teach Bible classes in his home. Below are two articles in which he mentions his Christianity, and in neither of them does he mention this. He is however quoted as saying something that would indicate that he would not try and teach the Bible.
" I'm a rock singer. I'm nothing more than that. I'm not a philosopher. I consider myself low on the totem pole of knowledgeable Christians. So, don't look for answers from me."
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26647
http://www.jesusjournal.com/content/view/79/85/
Any other prophecies that we can burst your bubble about? Always happy to help someone see the light.
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
Save a tree, eat a vegetarian.
Sometimes " The Majority " only means that all the fools are on the same side.
The problem with prophecies is that even if humans are capable of having them, we don't really have the ability to accurately get meaning out of them, or even tell the difference between a prophecy and a mere dream.
ciarin.com
My father claims to have had a dream about my two sisters' births which accurately predicted the date of their births. I'm not one to believe in that stuff, but it's not easy to dismiss either. If it were anyone else I'd call them loony and not waste any though on it. But he's completely rational, intelligent, and well read.
Maybe it was more of a calculation done in the brain while sleeping that included enough information input to yield an accurate result. Or possibly just a false memory.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
MySpace
When a secretary in the office was pregnant, we had a pool on when she would give birth, and I won. I guess that makes me a prophet. I do not know whether I picked the date in a dream or for another reason - it doesn't matter, it was just a lucky guess.
when you say "faith" I think "evil lies"
when you say "god" I think "santa clause"
Most dreams are remembered very poorly if at all, with details getting inserted in to the memory once the person wakes up and tries to recollect them. This is why so many dreams have been claimed to include/involve people the person has not yet met. Due to the parts of your brain that create dreams, there is no text or numbers either so anything date related has me very much believing these were details inserted in to the dream (conciously or not) after it.
Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
Censored and blacked out for internet access in ANZ!
AU: http://nocleanfeed.com/ | NZ: http://nzblackout.org/
Thingy, there can be numbers and text in a dream. One thing people can look for as a clue that they're in a dream is a wonky clock that changes time constantly or text that doesn't read anything. I've used these as cue to wake up before. Are you certain that there are not numbers or text in dreams?
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
I should have been more specific, legible words formed by this text is what cannot be contained, number sequences in accurate formats often get remembered in - exactly as you describe.
Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
Censored and blacked out for internet access in ANZ!
AU: http://nocleanfeed.com/ | NZ: http://nzblackout.org/
Ah. But, when you say 'remembered in' do you mean added after the fact? Or do you mean number sequences in accurate formats don't appear?
If the latter, I agree.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
According to my father he wrote down the dates when he awoke. Like I said he's pretty intelligent, and curious to boot. Which is why I think he probably did write it down. He never showed interest in anything religious or spiritual. He was always very interested in science. The type of guy that would spend his extra money on Scientific American. He had absolutely no reason to lie to me. He actually hesitated to tell me out of fear that I would think him mad. I don't think he would lie, but we all know how the mind can play tricks.
But at the same time you have to consider the circumstances strange. He claims to have written both dates on a pieces of paper months before both births. Of course he doesn't have any evidence of it. When it comes to the oogy-boogy stuff there is never evidence. I just never figured him for somebody to get caught up in that kind of stuff. I guess if you knew him it might appear different. It would be like Hamby or Bob Spence making the same claim. You just don't expect it out of them, and I would never have expected it out of him.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
MySpace
You do realize that that is a generalization, right?
I happen to be a lucid dreamer and I can read while I am asleep. If I fall asleep while reading, I can in fact, read a dozen or more pages of the book, only to find out the next day that what I read was not actually what was written in the actual book.
=
It just sounds like a coincidence to me. If he knew the doctors predicated birth date and was thinking about it while awake, then dreaming about the correct date isn't exactly a long shot. Having done it correctly once would make him want to try to do it a second time.
Next time someone you know gets pregnant ask him to try it again and keep the note as evidence!
Ditto with what Gene said.
Dreaming (and sleeping in general) is, frustratingly, a very poorly understood mechanism. Why we require sleep, why we dream, what dreams are, etc remain questions that are inconclusively answered at best at the moment.
...And no, Luminon, that doesn't mean that you're right by default.
Sleep studies and sleep science in general is really fascinating, though.
To the OP: 'Do some people see into the future?' is not a very useful question. 'How would/could someone see into the future?' is a much better one. If you don't have an answer for it, it's usually best to remain skeptical of people's claims unless they can provide a satisfactory explanation for what they do (you may also want to note, at that, how often you hear, 'I can't explain it' from people who claim to have paranormal abilities).
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
Don't get me wrong. I have no delusions of a prophetic father or anything like that. It's just that if what he says is true, it is a fantastic coincidence. But as there is no evidence I'm inclined not to believe him. But as I said before, he isn't the type to tell stories. I attribute it to coincidence as well.
[edit] As far as getting evidence of it, that won't be possible.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
MySpace
I watched a "human body" special about sleep on the science channel just a few weeks ago. Basically they said that REM sleep is when the brain does a "tune-up" on itself. It's when all the memories of the day get shuffled around and stored into long term memory. This is why it is good to get a good night's sleep before taking an exam, as the REM sleep does good in storing memories. Because the frontal lobe is deactivated during this process, the memories being shuffled around cause interesting results; dreams for example!
About dreams, the show talked about how a leading scientist in NASA solved a problem he was having on a lunar base simulator. He solved the problem actually in his dreams, and the next day everyone was impressed. They mentioned a few other people in history who had accredited their dream in helping them solve a problem or come with an answer for practical use. While I don't think dreams and visions have a supernatural quality or tell us what is going to happen in the future; I do think they can be very helpful. The end of the show discussed lucid dreaming and introduced a workshop group that focus on teaching people on how to do lucid dreaming. They believe that lucid dreaming can be used to solving real world problems as if using a computer simulation.
The show wasn't all about dreams though, it had many a parts about sleeping and how the human behaves when sleep deprived. One segment was about a professor who almost jumped off of a balloon way up in the air when an alarm went off. He had been awake for over 30 hours, and his first human instinct when the alarm went off was to "get away from the loud noise" - it almost killed him, and was caught on tape. He did survive thoguh, at the last minute with his leg out the balloon he was staring at the clouds like "SHIT!" and jumped back in. Overall I thought the show was really interesting, I'd really like to find more info about the dreams and the people who used them for real-world problems again, as I've forgotten a lot of cool parts to it.
I am an Ex-Christian.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
MySpace