Jesus the Sun God

discus70
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Jesus the Sun God

Just curious to know what kind of credibility there is to this argument of Jesus being a sun god. There are a lot of similarities (Horus, Mythra, etc..) and valid points made by this argument. It also seems to me to be one of the few arguments that tends to make sense. The only other argument that makes a little sense is that Jesus was just a regular Joe who did some good deeds.

 

Anyway my question to all of you highly intelligent people.

 

Can this assumption about the story of Jesus (a sun god) really hold up?

 

 

 


Rook_Hawkins
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You might try google

You might try google searching the site.  This has been covered a lot here.


discus70
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 I went through some of the

 I went through some of the topic pages but didnt come across it.  I will try the google search

I appreicate the help.


A_Nony_Mouse
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discus70 wrote:Just curious

discus70 wrote:

Just curious to know what kind of credibility there is to this argument of Jesus being a sun god. There are a lot of similarities (Horus, Mythra, etc..) and valid points made by this argument. It also seems to me to be one of the few arguments that tends to make sense. The only other argument that makes a little sense is that Jesus was just a regular Joe who did some good deeds.

Anyway my question to all of you highly intelligent people.

Can this assumption about the story of Jesus (a sun god) really hold up? 

You cannot make that assumption although Yahweh is a nature god. I have posted this before but the believers in Judaism jumped in with nonsense trying to make special exceptions because it is from the OT.

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        The following names are applied to local variations of a single goddess, Ishtar, Isis, Ashara, Astarte, Aphrodite, Venus. These are the same  not just by name similarity but because the fundamental myths about them are variations upon the same story. The same applies to the male gods.                   

        The following names are applied to local variations of a single god, Adonis, Attis, Osiris, Tammuz, Mithras and as we shall see, Jesus. Under the first five names legend attributes him great physical beauty and hunting skills. Jesus by tradition had perfect physical form and was a fisher of men.

        In the Hebrew bible the first commandment reads "I Adoni am your god." Adoni is the word translated as lord in the Christian version. In Greek Adon is lord. The oldest known version of the Old Testament is the Greek Septuagint.  When the Hebrew version was created it kept the Adoni as the name of the god for some of the books although it generally defaults to Yahweh Elohim. Yahweh is translated into lord in English and Elohim as the singular god although it clearly has the plural suffix, im.

       Yahweh and Ashara are a pair of deities found in the records of Ugarit. An inscription referring to Yahweh and his Ashara has been found in bibleland.

        Adonis is the husband of Venus. In this imagining Adonis is the son of King Cinyras and either the king's daughter, Myrrha, or Astarte herself. Astarte as Venus falls in love with Adonis. Mars becomes jealous of Adonis, turns into a boar and kills Adonis. Venus travels to Hades (he descended in to hell) to retrieve him. Pluto's wife is also in love with him and they agree each will have him half the year. Venus gets the summer so this is celebrated on the Vernal Equinox as is Easter, the name Easter coming from Ishtar.

        It takes Astarte two days to broker this deal so he can be resurrected. This explains the reason Christians insist upon three days in the tomb -- from old testament prophecy -- while having only two calendar days between death and resurrection which is from existing religious custom.

        The Egyptian imagining of this story has Amun, Isis, Osiris and Set as the main players. Amun is the chief god of Egypt who made the first men out of clay. He was portrayed with the head of a ram, thus the Shofar horn. He came before the other gods as does Adoni in the first commandment.

        Plutarch, in his Lives ("Alcibiades," XVIII), speaking of the sailing of the Greek fleet for Syracuse in the year 415 B.C., says: "It was an evil omen that the festival of Adonis fell in those days. Numbers of women bore images, like dead bodies, and held mock funerals; and they mourned and chanted the solemn hymns."

        Thus the festival of Adonis was well established at least four centuries before the earliest incarnation of the Jesus story. The story itself is much older. The Egyptian imagining is found on much older wall inscriptions.  

        Most Christians accept the doctrine of the Trinity which holds
Yahweh and Jesus are the exactly the same god for this reason. One wonders
if Ishtar is the Holy Spirit which connects the two names -- an eternal love
triangle so to speak. The Holy Spirit is depicted as a dove. Ashara's      
symbol was primarily the tree but also the dove.

        The name Easter comes from the goddess Ishtar the wife of Adonis under the name of Attis. This is a vernal equinox celebration.

        BYT YHWH and BYT STRT both refer to buildings in Jerusalem. They are translated as Temple of Yahweh, YaHWeH, and Temple of Astarte, aSTaRTe.
Idols of Astarte and of the divine pair, Astarte and Yahweh, are found at all levels in Jerusalem and around Judea. They abruptly stop appearing in Jerusalem after Judeans (Iodiminae, commonly translated as Jews in English) are forbidden to enter Jerusalem by Hadrian.

        It is reported her temple there had eight sides suggesting the grand mosque on the so-called temple mount was built on the foundation of her temple. Or perhaps it was merely renovated.      

        The Christian story of Jesus is simply another imagining of the common tale. Consider it a puritanical version leaving out the explicit sex.

=====

        Spare the rod and spoil the child.
        Spare the flail and spoil the child.
        Thy flail and thy staff do comfort me.

Image of King of Egypt with crossed arms and symbols.

=====

        Purim is a classic Cinderella tale which comes in many forms some of which are barely recognizable from the Disney version. Esther, a variation on Ishtar from which we get Easter, is set in the last of the known civilized world to the east where both the sun and Venus/Ishtar also rise. 

=====

        Far from being devoid of Vernal Equinox celebrations, the prophet Mohamed was born close enough to it in some calendar that it does not matter. The odd thing is male rather than female. Likely it replaced the birth of some female deity.                                             

=====

        The story of Job is a dialog between Amun/Yahweh and Ra/Lucifer.

=====

        Angels, aka messengers, are depicted as having wings as the ancient gods used birds as messengers. The most commonly used bird was an owl, a bird that appears to be standing upright when it perches. This is why angels are depicted as having wings.

=====

        Powerful rulers claimed to be gods in those days which seems incongruous to us with our idea of God. But people did not expect much from any particular god in the old days.

        The claim to being a god was most commonly base upon the power of life and death. The gods sent a angels, messengers, of death. Kings ordered their messengers to kill. Also gods did not bring the dead back to life so neither was that a requirement for kings. Similarly gods did not bring inanimate objects to life so that was no expected of kings. Each god had different powers (like the X-Men) and most were simply influential without the power to force so a king did not have to do more than influence.

=====

        The Apis Bull of Egypt was selected as one being completely black except of a single white mark between its horns. It was not sacrificed and was connected with the patron god of Memphis.

        Jews connect a heifer with the arrival of their Messiah. It must be completely red. It is intended for sacrifice. It is possibly connected with the patron god of Jerusalem.

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Another one you can add is Isis Ra and El, Israel. You can go any place beleivers dwell to find the meaning of the word israel and find that it means 'wrestles with god' or 'mein Kampf mit Gott' perhaps. How do they know? The bible tells them so. A minor problem there is that it was supposed to have been written by people who knew. So how could people who knew the language not know the meaning of israel?

In English we read "Israel which means ..." but people who knew the language would have read "Israel means Israel."

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


spin
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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Another

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Another one you can add is Isis Ra and El, Israel.

This makes about as much sense as the Italian word for "anus"  is "ano". There is a famous old game called "nym" and of course people of south London call a dwelling an "ouse". You can obviously see from Ano-nym-ouse, or more graphically A_Nony_Mouse, what goes on in that 'ouse.

 

Raised Brow

 

spin

Trust the evidence, Luke


A_Nony_Mouse
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spin wrote:A_Nony_Mouse

spin wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Another one you can add is Isis Ra and El, Israel.

This makes about as much sense as the Italian word for "anus"  is "ano". There is a famous old game called "nym" and of course people of south London call a dwelling an "ouse". You can obviously see from Ano-nym-ouse, or more graphically A_Nony_Mouse, what goes on in that 'ouse.

Raised Brow

spin

Well raised, Mr. Spock, but Nimoy did it better.

While one may speculate as to the origin of the name, it is clearly NOT a word in whatever language the creators of the OT were using else there would have been no need for a translation.

As it was not a eal name it was either a foreign name or an invented name whose meaning was also invented.

As there is no known other place where the word/name was used it can only rationally be assumed an invented word and meaning.

As the only rational hypothesis is that it was invented all guesses are equal.

But you know that.

|||||

BTW: Do you have a life outside this website?

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


spin
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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:spin

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

spin wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Another one you can add is Isis Ra and El, Israel.

This makes about as much sense as the Italian word for "anus"  is "ano". There is a famous old game called "nym" and of course people of south London call a dwelling an "ouse". You can obviously see from Ano-nym-ouse, or more graphically A_Nony_Mouse, what goes on in that 'ouse.

Raised Brow

spin

Well raised, Mr. Spock, but Nimoy did it better.

While one may speculate as to the origin of the name, it is clearly NOT a word in whatever language the creators of the OT were using else there would have been no need for a translation.

Perhaps if you actually read works like Genesis, you'd find that explaining names is a well-worn tradition. Try for example all the sons of Jacob (I mean "Israel&quotEye-wink. So the following use of conjecture has no foundation:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
As it was not a eal name it was either a foreign name or an invented name whose meaning was also invented.

As there is no known other place where the word/name was used it can only rationally be assumed an invented word and meaning.

As the only rational hypothesis is that it was invented all guesses are equal.

But you know that.

What I know is that you are waffling through your hat -- which has a certain entertainment value. But, so that you know in the future, when you make claims about a literary tradition, you need to know something about it first, otherwise you won't have any firm basis for making any meaningful comments about it.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
BTW: Do you have a life outside this website?

I think you'll find that you've made many more posts here than I have. But then you've been here three times as long as I have.

 

 

spin

Trust the evidence, Luke


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spin wrote:A_Nony_Mouse

spin wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

spin wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Another one you can add is Isis Ra and El, Israel.

This makes about as much sense as the Italian word for "anus"  is "ano". There is a famous old game called "nym" and of course people of south London call a dwelling an "ouse". You can obviously see from Ano-nym-ouse, or more graphically A_Nony_Mouse, what goes on in that 'ouse.

Raised Brow

spin

Well raised, Mr. Spock, but Nimoy did it better.

While one may speculate as to the origin of the name, it is clearly NOT a word in whatever language the creators of the OT were using else there would have been no need for a translation.

Perhaps if you actually read works like Genesis, you'd find that explaining names is a well-worn tradition. Try for example all the sons of Jacob (I mean "Israel&quotEye-wink. So the following use of conjecture has no foundation:

All you are saying is that all the names were invented. Here is an example of what you claim was a "tradition".

His name is Greenstreet which means green street.

This imaginary "tradition" does make sense in the following.

His name is Gruenstrasse which means green street.

As to the invention of the "tradition" of being foolishly redundant please produce a date for the usage in the bible and then an earlier example to show that foolish redundancy was in fact a tradition.

Keep in mind Occam's meataxe says "it was being explained to the Greek readers" is the simplest explanation.

spin wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
As it was not a eal name it was either a foreign name or an invented name whose meaning was also invented.

As there is no known other place where the word/name was used it can only rationally be assumed an invented word and meaning.

As the only rational hypothesis is that it was invented all guesses are equal.

But you know that.

What I know is that you are waffling through your hat -- which has a certain entertainment value. But, so that you know in the future, when you make claims about a literary tradition, you need to know something about it first, otherwise you won't have any firm basis for making any meaningful comments about it.

You have not established it was a tradition. You have merely asserted it was a tradition to be needlessly redundant. I await you establishing from non-biblical sources that such a tradition existed prior to the creation of the earliest bible book which you claim exemplifies this tradition.

spin wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
BTW: Do you have a life outside this website?

I think you'll find that you've made many more posts here than I have. But then you've been here three times as long as I have.

spin

You have only been here two months?

But I am referring to finding your responses to my posts all around the clock every day.

You should get a real life.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


spin
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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:spin

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
spin wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
spin wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Another one you can add is Isis Ra and El, Israel.

This makes about as much sense as the Italian word for "anus"  is "ano". There is a famous old game called "nym" and of course people of south London call a dwelling an "ouse". You can obviously see from Ano-nym-ouse, or more graphically A_Nony_Mouse, what goes on in that 'ouse.

Raised Brow

Well raised, Mr. Spock, but Nimoy did it better.

While one may speculate as to the origin of the name, it is clearly NOT a word in whatever language the creators of the OT were using else there would have been no need for a translation.

Perhaps if you actually read works like Genesis, you'd find that explaining names is a well-worn tradition. Try for example all the sons of Jacob (I mean "Israel&quotEye-wink. So the following use of conjecture has no foundation:

All you are saying is that all the names were invented.

To  you then all names are invented. End of silly complaint. And we leave you with your bait and switch:

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Here is an example of what you claim was a "tradition".

His name is Greenstreet which means green street.

This imaginary "tradition" does make sense in the following.

His name is Gruenstrasse which means green street.

As to the invention of the "tradition" of being foolishly redundant please produce a date for the usage in the bible and then an earlier example to show that foolish redundancy was in fact a tradition.

Keep in mind Occam's meataxe says "it was being explained to the Greek readers" is the simplest explanation.

When you don't know anything about the particular tradition, you can't say anything meaningful about it.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
spin wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
As it was not a eal name it was either a foreign name or an invented name whose meaning was also invented.

As there is no known other place where the word/name was used it can only rationally be assumed an invented word and meaning.

As the only rational hypothesis is that it was invented all guesses are equal.

But you know that.

What I know is that you are waffling through your hat -- which has a certain entertainment value. But, so that you know in the future, when you make claims about a literary tradition, you need to know something about it first, otherwise you won't have any firm basis for making any meaningful comments about it.

You have not established it was a tradition. You have merely asserted it was a tradition to be needlessly redundant. I await you establishing from non-biblical sources that such a tradition existed prior to the creation of the earliest bible book which you claim exemplifies this tradition.

The texts themselves evince a tradition. Get yourself an accredited expert to hold your hand on the issue. When you find that there are duplicates of stories (and sometimes triplicates, such as the patriarch and his wife in a foreign land and he pretends she's  only his sister) of stories you have signs of parallel developments of the same stories, ie evolving traditions. When you have earlier parts of the biblical texts being manipulated by later parts (such as Chronicles stories from Sam/Kings), you can track the changes and you have evolving traditions. This is interesting stuff, but you are too committed to your denial process to understand or appreciate the beauty of the implications.

There are of course external indications for the tradition content of  the Hebrew bible. For instance at Deir Alla inscriptions were found from the 8th C. BCE that tell about the prophet Balaam, also found in the book of Leviticus. There is a fairly literal rendering of a brief passage from Ugaritic texts found in the book of Isaiah 27:1 about Leviathan the fleeing serpent. Ugarit was destroyed in about 1150 BCE, meaning a tradition regarding the twisting serpent was maintained from that time down to the time it was written down in Isaiah. Even the first creation account in Genesis (the newer one) is based on a tradition that can be found in the Babylonian creation story Enuma Elish. This is most economically explained as a group who received the Babylonian tradition passing it down to their Judean descendants. Isn't even the exodus story a garbled account of the expulsion of the Hyksos, a group that ended up romping through Ammon and what would be Judea? The Hyksos were long gone or absorbed and forgotten about  by the time the Hebrews were telling exodus stories. Even the Philistines need to be dealt with as a received tradition for the Philistines were active around 1150 BCE onwards for several centuries but had been integrated into the Palestinian undergrowth and would not have been distinguishable from the Phoenicians in the second temple era.

Your problem is that you can't be bothered to know anything about what you are denying.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
spin wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
BTW: Do you have a life outside this website?

I think you'll find that you've made many more posts here than I have. But then you've been here three times as long as I have.

You have only been here two months?

But I am referring to finding your responses to my posts all around the clock every day.

You should get a real life.

I think you should find a better way of self-stimulation that this denial kick you're on. I try to respond immediately because, if I don't, something else is always there that needs dealing with, but, if you really don't want responses, I can accommodate that.

 

 

spin

Trust the evidence, Luke


A_Nony_Mouse
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spin wrote:A_Nony_Mouse

spin wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
spin wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
spin wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Another one you can add is Isis Ra and El, Israel.

This makes about as much sense as the Italian word for "anus"  is "ano". There is a famous old game called "nym" and of course people of south London call a dwelling an "ouse". You can obviously see from Ano-nym-ouse, or more graphically A_Nony_Mouse, what goes on in that 'ouse.

Raised Brow

Well raised, Mr. Spock, but Nimoy did it better.

While one may speculate as to the origin of the name, it is clearly NOT a word in whatever language the creators of the OT were using else there would have been no need for a translation.

Perhaps if you actually read works like Genesis, you'd find that explaining names is a well-worn tradition. Try for example all the sons of Jacob (I mean "Israel&quotEye-wink. So the following use of conjecture has no foundation:

All you are saying is that all the names were invented.

To  you then all names are invented. End of silly complaint. And we leave you with your bait and switch:

spin

Good. Enough of the stalking already.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


spin
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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Enough of

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Enough of the stalking already.