is God being lazy?

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is God being lazy?

Yo,

First post for me on this forum and really glad I found a place where I can discuss these things openly. Please excuse my bad English, I'm from Holland. (I know explains a lot)

 I think a lot about religion and think it's fine for people to believe in what they want, as long as it's not a danger to other people. (they can believe in JRR Tolkien's work for all I care) As long as it helps them become better people it's fine with me.

That said I always wondered why all the holy scripts were all written by humans... I mean, god created this world right? So how come he left out an instruction manual. Shouldn't be too hard for him being all mighty an' all (he shoud've created a global language aswell so anyone could read it)... Instead we got these (contradicting) texts which tell us what to do written by humans. If god was so aware and did exist, why the hell did he allow so many different prophets to roam the world? Maybe he was screwing with their minds and hoping people would grow to believe different things so he could have a laugh at the jihad's and the crusades. It's like a child putting different bugs together making 'em fight. God I think you are toying with us... (It's pretty weird being a human criticizing on god, I think he reached a whole new level)

And what is it with god wanting people to believe in him?! I mean, if we are all supposed to believe in him he could try a bit harder... Like pay a visit or something. And no, don't sent your son this time. You come and pay us a visit. And make sure everyone knows who you are, do some kick ass miracles every once in a while. (I wonder if god has internet...)

At least the jews know their god doesn't give a shit. He is, neither good or evil, timeless you name it. He is... Pretty useless.

Ow one more thing god, if you could give an explanation of your devine plan and make it understandable for all of us.... Would be great. If anyone can do it it's you! Cheers.

God bless Atheism.


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Welcome

 

      Welcome to the RRS  you'll meet other Europeans here and your English seems just fine, I'm Canadian myself.

      You asked, "is god being lazy?"   I do not believe that because I do not believe in god. I believe religios are lazy;  look at it from their point of view,  "believe in God and no more thinking is required",  "All  answers are in the bible" but if you can't find the answer then stop asking the question.

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I believe in many gods, none

I believe in many gods, none of whom are lazy. I also don't believe in the bible, which has no answers for me. Do you think I'm lazy?


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Quote:I believe in many

Quote:
I believe in many gods, none of whom are lazy. I also don't believe in the bible, which has no answers for me. Do you think I'm lazy?

 

You can prove that they aren't lazy?  I'm fascinated now.

 

Basically, since you don't believe in the Bible, and you believe in a variety of intangible fucks, you're coming to the conclusion that you HAVE no conclusion so, you're bordering on agnosticism, me thinks.  It's just a matter of time.

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Sage_Override wrote:Quote:I

Sage_Override wrote:

Quote:
I believe in many gods, none of whom are lazy. I also don't believe in the bible, which has no answers for me. Do you think I'm lazy?

 

You can prove that they aren't lazy?  I'm fascinated now.

where did I say I can prove they aren't lazy to you?

 

 

Quote:

Basically, since you don't believe in the Bible, and you believe in a variety of intangible fucks, you're coming to the conclusion that you HAVE no conclusion so, you're bordering on agnosticism, me thinks.  It's just a matter of time.

 

I'm polytheistic and animistic, hardly agnostic.


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Quote:I believe in many

Quote:
I believe in many gods, none of whom are lazy.

When you make a claim that your gods aren't lazy, even though no one has seen a form of a god EVER, just whacked out shit in their head, it's your duty to prove that they aren't lazy so, you kind of painted yourself into a corner with the above statement. 

So, let's hear it. 

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Sage_Override wrote:Quote:I

Sage_Override wrote:

Quote:
I believe in many gods, none of whom are lazy.

When you make a claim that your gods aren't lazy, even though no one has seen a form of a god EVER, just whacked out shit in their head, it's your duty to prove that they aren't lazy so, you kind of painted yourself into a corner with the above statement. 

So, let's hear it. 

 

Nope. It's quite impossible for me to prove to you my gods exist let alone their laziness factor.


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Quote:Nope. It's quite

Quote:
Nope. It's quite impossible for me to prove to you my gods exist let alone their laziness factor.

 

Well, fantabulous then. 

 

As long as "Simon the god of hairdos" isn't one of those figments, we're square.

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Sage_Override

Sage_Override wrote:

Quote:
Nope. It's quite impossible for me to prove to you my gods exist let alone their laziness factor.

 

Well, fantabulous then. 

 

As long as "Simon the god of hairdos" isn't one of those figments, we're square.

 

How about Jeff the God of Biscuits?


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Quote:How about Jeff the God

Quote:
How about Jeff the God of Biscuits?

 

...you're skating on thin ice...

 

I'll allow that one, but JUST THIS ONCE!

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Cake or death?

Cake or death?


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Death.  NO WAIT!  CAKE! 

Death.  NO WAIT!  CAKE!  Cake, sorry, sorry...


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 Quote:How about Jeff the

 

Quote:
How about Jeff the God of Biscuits?

By the way, it wasn't until I checked your link that I became reasonably convinced that you're serious about all this multiple god nonsense.  It's hard enough telling when a Christian is joking about their one god, but in most polite company, I'd laugh aloud at most of what you say and then entertain the crowd by trying to eat my shoe when I found out you were serious.

There must be some kind of corrolary to Poe's Law:  It becomes increasingly difficult to distinguish theist humor as the number of gods believed in increases.

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

 

Quote:
How about Jeff the God of Biscuits?

By the way, it wasn't until I checked your link that I became reasonably convinced that you're serious about all this multiple god nonsense.  It's hard enough telling when a Christian is joking about their one god, but in most polite company, I'd laugh aloud at most of what you say and then entertain the crowd by trying to eat my shoe when I found out you were serious.

There must be some kind of corrolary to Poe's Law:  It becomes increasingly difficult to distinguish theist humor as the number of gods believed in increases.

Interesting. Do you get christians pretending to be pagan often?


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 No.  I figured you for a

 No.  I figured you for a passive-aggressive atheist getting her jollies by professing the strangest possible belief and defending it.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit wrote: No.  I

Hambydammit wrote:

 No.  I figured you for a passive-aggressive atheist getting her jollies by professing the strangest possible belief and defending it.

 

 

hehe, awesome.


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Quote:That said I always

Quote:
That said I always wondered why all the holy scripts were all written by humans... I mean, god created this world right? So how come he left out an instruction manual.

He did and its called the Bible, it is his perfect and infalliable word on how to live our lives of earth.

Quote:
(he shoud've created a global language aswell so anyone could read it)

He did but in our hybris we Humans tried to create a tower to hevean. God had to punish us by confusing our tongues and his punishment is just and fair.

Quote:
Instead we got these (contradicting) texts which tell us what to do written by humans. If god was so aware and did exist, why the hell did he allow so many different prophets to roam the world?

No, the Bible was written by God and He never contradicts himself.

Quote:
Maybe he was screwing with their minds and hoping people would grow to believe different things so he could have a laugh at the jihad's and the crusades.

Yes, we must destroy the hethans if they refuse to accept the word of God.

Quote:
And what is it with god wanting people to believe in him?! I mean, if we are all supposed to believe in him he could try a bit harder... Like pay a visit or something. And no, don't sent your son this time. You come and pay us a visit. And make sure everyone knows who you are, do some kick ass miracles every once in a while. (I wonder if god has internet...)

The LORD Jesus Christ is God on earth. God came to earth in the form of his own Son so he could show us the way to hevean. I will pray for you everyday so that you find Jesus and so you can go to hevean.

Quote:
At least the jews know their god doesn't give a shit. He is, neither good or evil, timeless you name it. He is... Pretty useless.

No, the Jews got it wrong. That's why God had to come to eath to teach them the true way. God is timeless but he is not "neither good nor evil" He is GOOD and perfect in his GOODNESS. Nothing is better or more perfect than God.

Quote:
Ow one more thing god, if you could give an explanation of your devine plan and make it understandable for all of us.... Would be great. If anyone can do it it's you! Cheers.

God does give an explantion of his plan in the book He wrote, the Bible. It is completely understandable you just need to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and it will all become clear.

 

 

 

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS JUST A JOKE


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Whew!I was all like...'man,

Whew!

I was all like...'man, this dude needs a Theist badge BIGtime!'

That whole 'god never contradicts himself' and all that.

You really had me going.

Good one!


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Ciarin wrote:Sage_Override

Ciarin wrote:

Sage_Override wrote:

Quote:
I believe in many gods, none of whom are lazy.

When you make a claim that your gods aren't lazy, even though no one has seen a form of a god EVER, just whacked out shit in their head, it's your duty to prove that they aren't lazy so, you kind of painted yourself into a corner with the above statement. 

So, let's hear it. 

 

Nope. It's quite impossible for me to prove to you my gods exist let alone their laziness factor.

Everyone I’ve ever met who has believed in multiple gods has claimed to be able to experience them directly in some way.  I’m curious do you feel you have some kind of direct communication with these gods?  If this question is rude I apologized in advance.  


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RatDog wrote:Ciarin

RatDog wrote:

Ciarin wrote:

Sage_Override wrote:

Quote:
I believe in many gods, none of whom are lazy.

When you make a claim that your gods aren't lazy, even though no one has seen a form of a god EVER, just whacked out shit in their head, it's your duty to prove that they aren't lazy so, you kind of painted yourself into a corner with the above statement. 

So, let's hear it. 

 

Nope. It's quite impossible for me to prove to you my gods exist let alone their laziness factor.

Everyone I’ve ever met who has believed in multiple gods has claimed to be able to experience them directly in some way.  I’m curious do you feel you have some kind of direct communication with these gods?  If this question is rude I apologized in advance.  

 

No problem. It's called Unverified Personal Gnosis(UPG). So unless we can do a vulcan mind meld there's no way I can prove my UPG to you.


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Is God lazy? I think it's

Is God lazy? I think it's pretty obvious that if he exist then he is infinitely lazy. Look around you at all these non-believers. God is infinitely powerful and as such, it would take quite literally zero effort to convert the whole of the planet. But he doesn't. He just sits around condemning people. So he is either lazy, an asshole, or a lazy asshole

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spike.barnett wrote:Is God

spike.barnett wrote:

Is God lazy? I think it's pretty obvious that if he exist then he is infinitely lazy. Look around you at all these non-believers. God is infinitely powerful and as such, it would take quite literally zero effort to convert the whole of the planet. But he doesn't. He just sits around condemning people. So he is either lazy, an asshole, or a lazy asshole

 

Or maybe he doesn't really care if people worship him?


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Quote:Or maybe he doesn't

Quote:
Or maybe he doesn't really care if people worship him?

 

If all gods didn't care if you worshipped them, they wouldn't have bothered with anything if what believers say are true.  If they existed, they would be playing gin rummy on a shoddy poker table eating twinkies in oblivion talking about how good it is to be worry free with no agenda and no prospects to create shit.  The mere suggestion that they, he, it, whatever doesn't care would nullify every theist argument and belief.

 

Hmm, I think now is as good a time as ever to get some breakfast.

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Sage_Override wrote:Quote:Or

Sage_Override wrote:

Quote:
Or maybe he doesn't really care if people worship him?

 

If all gods didn't care if you worshipped them, they wouldn't have bothered with anything if what believers say are true.  If they existed, they would be playing gin rummy on a shoddy poker table eating twinkies in oblivion talking about how good it is to be worry free with no agenda and no prospects to create shit.  The mere suggestion that they, he, it, whatever doesn't care would nullify every theist argument and belief.

 

Hmm, I think now is as good a time as ever to get some breakfast.

 

Please explain how a god not caring if he is worshipped nullifies every theist argument and belief.


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Quote:Please explain how a

Quote:
Please explain how a god not caring if he is worshipped nullifies every theist argument and belief.

 

Simple; it would mean every word in every holy book, doctrine, scripture or shred of parchment supposedly brought forth in some way by these gods was all bullshit, man made shenanigans and that we truly are on our own.  If gods were lazy, why would they bother putting prophets on Earth to spread their words?  To fuck with people?  To snicker to themselves in a proverbial corner while believers run around in strife and confusion like chickens with their heads cut off? 

 

Seriously, as George Carlin said "It's all bullshit and it's bad for ya."

 

 

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Sage_Override

Sage_Override wrote:

Quote:
Please explain how a god not caring if he is worshipped nullifies every theist argument and belief.

 

Simple; it would mean every word in every holy book, doctrine, scripture or shred of parchment supposedly brought forth in some way by these gods was all bullshit,

My religion has no holy book, no scripture. We just have sagas and poetry.

 

Quote:
man made shenanigans and that we truly are on our own.  If gods were lazy, why would they bother putting prophets on Earth to spread their words?

My religion has no prophets.

Quote:
To fuck with people?  To snicker to themselves in a proverbial corner while believers run around in strife and confusion like chickens with their heads cut off?

That's possible I guess. If I were a god I wouldn't give a fuck if some other dudes worshipped me. I'd probably be interested in other things. Perhaps like the Q in Star Trek, lol.

 

Quote:

Seriously, as George Carlin said "It's all bullshit and it's bad for ya."

It hasn't done me any harm yet.


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Ciarin wrote:That's possible

Ciarin wrote:
That's possible I guess. If I were a god I wouldn't give a fuck if some other dudes worshipped me. I'd probably be interested in other things. Perhaps like the Q in Star Trek, lol.
Q was very concerned about worship. Everything he did screamed "validate me!"

A god's need to be worshiped is an extension of the human need to be validated. Had we not evolved as a social creature, gods would never have the need to be worshiped.

Generally speaking, of course. The malleability of the definition of "god" means any believer can make pretty much whatever claim they like about their god or gods and have it be "true".

 

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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JillSwift wrote:Ciarin

JillSwift wrote:

Q was very concerned about worship. Everything he did screamed "validate me!"

Picard's Q was bored and wanted to fuck with people, which led to his expulsion from the Continuum. Q learned from this experience and was let back in after Q determined he had redeemed himself. Not all Q were like Picard's Q. BTW, there isn't any planet or species that created a religion around Q. The Bajorans created a religion out of the wormhole aliens, but I don't think they were Q. The wormhole aliens didn't seem to desire worship either, they were just protective of the bajorans and wanted to help from time to time.

 

Quote:
A god's need to be worshiped is an extension of the human need to be validated. Had we not evolved as a social creature, gods would never have the need to be worshiped.

I'm of the opinion that many gods have no opinion either way on being worshipped or not. For example, the Norse Pantheon has no set rules that dictate if you don't worship them bad things will happen, or even that any good things will happen in the afterlife from having believed in them. The Asatru faith(as well as the other Heathen faiths) is based on deeds, not belief. You can't ask Thor to come in to your heart to save you from Muspelheim, it just doesn't work that way.

Quote:

Generally speaking, of course. The malleability of the definition of "god" means any believer can make pretty much whatever claim they like about their god or gods and have it be "true".

 

I guess. Christians think their god is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, etc. The gods of my faith are none of those things.


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Ciarin wrote:Picard's Q was

Ciarin wrote:
Picard's Q was bored and wanted to fuck with people, which led to his expulsion from the Continuum. Q learned from this experience and was let back in after Q determined he had redeemed himself.
If Q didn't want validation, he'd have just made his pranks and laughed like a kid with an ant farm.


Ciarin wrote:
I'm of the opinion that many gods have no opinion either way on being worshipped or not. For example, the Norse Pantheon has no set rules that dictate if you don't worship them bad things will happen, or even that any good things will happen in the afterlife from having believed in them. The Asatru faith(as well as the other Heathen faiths) is based on deeds, not belief. You can't ask Thor to come in to your heart to save you from Muspelheim, it just doesn't work that way.
And you don't see how requiring behavior that meets thier standard to avoid punishment and gain reward is an extension of the human need for validation?

Ciarin wrote:
I guess. Christians think their god is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, etc. The gods of my faith are none of those things.
The most common thread amongst gods is thier concern with humans. Humans do so love being the center of attention.


 

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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Quote:Quote:  Seriously, as

Quote:

Quote:

 

Seriously, as George Carlin said "It's all bullshit and it's bad for ya."

 

 

It hasn't done me any harm yet.

 

Maybe not physically...

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Ciarin wrote: Or maybe he

Ciarin wrote:
 

Or maybe he doesn't really care if people worship him?

I'm reasonably sure the OP was referring to an Abrahamic God. And I dare say that all three of them are pretty bent on mass worship. The fact that he doesn't exert enough influence to convert me tells me that he is lazy, or he wants me to go to Hell. Like I said, lazy, asshole, or combination of the two.

As far as any Pagan gods go... I had a girlfriend that believed in the whole Wicca thing but I really didn't pay much attention to it, so I don't have enough information to have an opinion on it. I did however determine that she was a little crazy.

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JillSwift wrote:Ciarin

JillSwift wrote:

Ciarin wrote:
Picard's Q was bored and wanted to fuck with people, which led to his expulsion from the Continuum. Q learned from this experience and was let back in after Q determined he had redeemed himself.
If Q didn't want validation, he'd have just made his pranks and laughed like a kid with an ant farm.

Hello? Q was kicked out of the continuum for his actions. It wasn't about validation, he was sadistic and bored. Why is no one worshipping any Q in Star Trek if they want so much validation?

Quote:

Ciarin wrote:
I'm of the opinion that many gods have no opinion either way on being worshipped or not. For example, the Norse Pantheon has no set rules that dictate if you don't worship them bad things will happen, or even that any good things will happen in the afterlife from having believed in them. The Asatru faith(as well as the other Heathen faiths) is based on deeds, not belief. You can't ask Thor to come in to your heart to save you from Muspelheim, it just doesn't work that way.
And you don't see how requiring behavior that meets thier standard to avoid punishment and gain reward is an extension of the human need for validation?

Um...ok. Let me try to explain, in my faith there are no commandments. They don't require behaviour from us to avoid punishment and gain reward. You need to stop thinking that all religions are like the christian one.

 

Quote:

Ciarin wrote:
I guess. Christians think their god is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, etc. The gods of my faith are none of those things.
The most common thread amongst gods is thier concern with humans. Humans do so love being the center of attention.

It is quite common, but their are exceptions.


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 Quote:Hello? Q was kicked

 

Quote:
Hello? Q was kicked out of the continuum for his actions. It wasn't about validation, he was sadistic and bored. Why is no one worshipping any Q in Star Trek if they want so much validation?

You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

 

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Sage_Override

Sage_Override wrote:

Quote:

Quote:

 

Seriously, as George Carlin said "It's all bullshit and it's bad for ya."

 

 

It hasn't done me any harm yet.

 

Maybe not physically...

 

Name how my religion would harm me.


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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

 

Quote:
Hello? Q was kicked out of the continuum for his actions. It wasn't about validation, he was sadistic and bored. Why is no one worshipping any Q in Star Trek if they want so much validation?

You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

 

 

Which word?


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spike.barnett wrote:Ciarin

spike.barnett wrote:

Ciarin wrote:
 

Or maybe he doesn't really care if people worship him?

I'm reasonably sure the OP was referring to an Abrahamic God. And I dare say that all three of them are pretty bent on mass worship. The fact that he doesn't exert enough influence to convert me tells me that he is lazy, or he wants me to go to Hell. Like I said, lazy, asshole, or combination of the two.

As far as any Pagan gods go... I had a girlfriend that believed in the whole Wicca thing but I really didn't pay much attention to it, so I don't have enough information to have an opinion on it. I did however determine that she was a little crazy.

 

I don't think it matters which god he's referring to. Even the christian god might not care if people are worshipping him. Maybe it's like the deists; god created everything, then he left us alone.


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 Validation.  For you to

 Validation.  For you to say that Q wasn't seeking validation can only mean that you don't know what validation is because... well... it's what he was doing.

Validation is basically reciprocated acknowledgement.  That is, when we go into a restaurant and the greeter is busy with a huge party but takes a second to glance at us and make eye contact, she is giving us validation.

An easier way to understand it is to think of someone not being validated.  When a child is following its mother around the store, pulling her shirt tail, repeatedly saying, "Mom... mom... mom... mom... mom... mom..." the mother is not giving the child validation.  She is not acknowledging it as part of her concern.  Similarly, if we were to go into a restaurant and sit for an hour in the lobby, and nobody even bothered to look at us or talk to us, we'd be quite offended, and rightly so, for our existence was not being validated by the staff.

In Star Trek, Q makes himself known to and interacts with the crew.  He is doing half of a reciprocal acknowledgment.  He is, by definition, forcing the crew to either validate his presence, words, and actions, or not to validate them.

So, like I said, if you say Q wasn't seeking validation, you must not know what validation is.

 

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Hambydammit wrote:

 Validation.  For you to say that Q wasn't seeking validation can only mean that you don't know what validation is because... well... it's what he was doing.

Validation is basically reciprocated acknowledgement.  That is, when we go into a restaurant and the greeter is busy with a huge party but takes a second to glance at us and make eye contact, she is giving us validation.

An easier way to understand it is to think of someone not being validated.  When a child is following its mother around the store, pulling her shirt tail, repeatedly saying, "Mom... mom... mom... mom... mom... mom..." the mother is not giving the child validation.  She is not acknowledging it as part of her concern.  Similarly, if we were to go into a restaurant and sit for an hour in the lobby, and nobody even bothered to look at us or talk to us, we'd be quite offended, and rightly so, for our existence was not being validated by the staff.

In Star Trek, Q makes himself known to and interacts with the crew.  He is doing half of a reciprocal acknowledgment.  He is, by definition, forcing the crew to either validate his presence, words, and actions, or not to validate them.

So, like I said, if you say Q wasn't seeking validation, you must not know what validation is.

 

 

 

Or perhaps I disagree that he was seeking validation? Of course I know what validation means. It's interesting that you would rather presume I don't know what a word means than to think I just don't agree with your opinion.

 

How about answering the question: If he was seeking validation so much, why was no one worshipping him? or any other Q for that matter?


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 Um... you're still missing

 Um... you're still missing my point completely.  There isn't a question of whether or not he was seeking validation.  There can't be because by the very definition of validation, his actions have to be seeking validation.

 

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Hambydammit wrote: Um...

Hambydammit wrote:

 Um... you're still missing my point completely.  There isn't a question of whether or not he was seeking validation.  There can't be because by the very definition of validation, his actions have to be seeking validation.

 


Your opinion is completely wrong, and since you disagree with me I'm going to have to assume you have no idea what validation means. See? I can do it too.

 

oh and from wikipedia:

"The character Q is a mischievous, seemingly omnipotent being who has taken an interest in humans. Q's power is limited only in that he can not overcome others in the Q Continuum, the peer group to which he belongs. Otherwise, he can do more or less whatever he wants, which most commonly leads to him annoying others (with or without intent)."

 

and StarTrek.com:

""Q" is the Federation designation for an impudent, self-superior and sometimes malevolent being from the otherwise mysterious Q Continuum. Beginning in 2364, the alien literally began to pop up in Federation space to tease, torment, and try Starfleet officers — especially Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the U.S.S. Enterprise. From the reports and eyewitness accounts it is not certain that the remainder of his kind share his outlook. It should always be stressed that Q's apparent juvenile humor should never be mistaken for the amoral, unconscionable acts of which he is capable."

 

So, imo, if he were seeking validation, it isn't shown in the bio. He just wanted to mess with human(and other aliens) for the fun of it. Nothing more. He never asked anyone to worship him, he never even implied it.

 

And the point, which you seem to have missed is that Q is a god like species that doesn't require worshippers. No one worships Q in Star Trek, this was the comparison I was making. The fact that one of them was a jerk a lot fo the time does not negate my point.


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Ciarin wrote:Hello? Q was

Ciarin wrote:
Hello? Q was kicked out of the continuum for his actions. It wasn't about validation, he was sadistic and bored. Why is no one worshipping any Q in Star Trek if they want so much validation?
Hamby covered this.

 

Ciarin wrote:
Um...ok. Let me try to explain, in my faith there are no commandments. They don't require behaviour from us to avoid punishment and gain reward. You need to stop thinking that all religions are like the christian one.
See, "save you from Muspelheim" is the avoid punishment part. The near-eternal party in Valhalla is the reward part. The emulation of behavior is the die brave/do good part. Not about Christianity at all. It is, however, all about gods being mirrors of humans, 'cuz they were all invented by humans.

Ciarin wrote:
I guess. Christians think their god is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, etc. The gods of my faith are none of those things.
The most common thread amongst gods is thier concern with humans. Humans do so love being the center of attention.

Ciarin wrote:
It is quite common, but their are exceptions.
Yes, there are a few. So?

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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 Quote:Your opinion is

 

Quote:
Your opinion is completely wrong, and since you disagree with me I'm going to have to assume you have no idea what validation means. See? I can do it too.

Kiddo, it's not my opinion.  It's pyschology.  I don't care what Star Trek dot com says about Q.

 

 

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Ciarin wrote:So, imo, if he

Ciarin wrote:
So, imo, if he were seeking validation, it isn't shown in the bio. He just wanted to mess with human(and other aliens) for the fun of it. Nothing more. He never asked anyone to worship him, he never even implied it.
You are conflating worship and validation. In doing so you are really badly missing my point.


 

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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 Quote:You are conflating

 

Quote:
You are conflating worship and validation. In doing so you arereally badly missing my point.

Seriously.  This is really easy.  Try it:

"Hamby, Jill, you're right.  I did not know the psychology definition of validation, and I was using the word incorrectly.  I was talking about worship, not validation."

 

 

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JillSwift wrote:Ciarin

JillSwift wrote:

Ciarin wrote:
Hello? Q was kicked out of the continuum for his actions. It wasn't about validation, he was sadistic and bored. Why is no one worshipping any Q in Star Trek if they want so much validation?
Hamby covered this.

He needs to do a better job.

 

Quote:

See, "save you from Muspelheim" is the avoid punishment part.

And I said it doesn't work that way. There is no "saving from Muspelheim". NO SALVATION REQUIRED. This isn't a christian religion.

Quote:

The near-eternal party in Valhalla is the reward part.

No it isn't. Maybe some heathens would like to go there, but I wouldn't. It's not heaven. It's a mead hall where you drink and fight till ragnorak. And the usual way to get there is by dying honorably in battle, which won't happen to most of us unless we're fighting in the middle east(which might be debatable on the "honorable" part). And even if you die in battle, you have a 50% chance of going to Freyja's Hall, Fólkvangr. There really isn't a "heaven" in Heathenism. Some believe that if you lead a good life, then your afterlife will be good; if you leave a bad life, the afterlife will be bad, which isn't decided by any of the gods as a punishment/reward system, it's just what happens. The ancient germanic peoples didn't really believe in an afterlife.

 

Quote:

The emulation of behavior is the die brave/do good part. Not about Christianity at all. It is, however, all about gods being mirrors of humans, 'cuz they were all invented by humans.

The emulation of behaviour has to do with the tradition of a social contract.

Quote:

Yes, there are a few. So?

Just pointing it out.


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JillSwift wrote:Ciarin

JillSwift wrote:

Ciarin wrote:
So, imo, if he were seeking validation, it isn't shown in the bio. He just wanted to mess with human(and other aliens) for the fun of it. Nothing more. He never asked anyone to worship him, he never even implied it.
You are conflating worship and validation. In doing so you are really badly missing my point.

 

 

 

So I guess when I said no one worshipS Q in Star Trek, and they don't require it, you felt the need to point out one of the Q needs validation because?


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JillSwift wrote:Ciarin

JillSwift wrote:

Ciarin wrote:
So, imo, if he were seeking validation, it isn't shown in the bio. He just wanted to mess with human(and other aliens) for the fun of it. Nothing more. He never asked anyone to worship him, he never even implied it.
You are conflating worship and validation. In doing so you are really badly missing my point.

 

 

 

And you've missed mine.


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Ciarin wrote:And I said it

Ciarin wrote:
And I said it doesn't work that way. There is no "saving from Muspelheim". NO SALVATION REQUIRED. This isn't a christian religion.
You're the one who keeps bringing up salvation and Christianity, not me. Unless you can point out how behavior emulation isn't part of the system... well, you won't be changing my mind.

Please, no appeals to authority. I know you know more about Asatru than I do, but "'Cuz I said so!" isn't enough.

Ciarin wrote:
No it isn't. Maybe some heathens would like to go there, but I wouldn't. It's not heaven. It's a mead hall where you drink and fight till ragnorak. And the usual way to get there is by dying honorably in battle, which won't happen to most of us unless we're fighting in the middle east(which might be debatable on the "honorable" part). And even if you die in battle, you have a 50% chance of going to Freyja's Hall, Fólkvangr. There really isn't a "heaven" in Heathenism. Some believe that if you lead a good life, then your afterlife will be good; if you leave a bad life, the afterlife will be bad, which isn't decided by any of the gods as a punishment/reward system, it's just what happens.
Who decided what's good and what's bad? Isn't that what the Sagas outline, good and bad behavior amongst the gods et al?

Ciarin wrote:
The ancient germanic peoples didn't really believe in an afterlife.
Yeah, except for all that activity after life...

Ciarin wrote:
The emulation of behaviour has to do with the tradition of a social contract.
I just said that.


Ciarin wrote:
Just pointing it out.
Well alrighty then.

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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Ciarin wrote:So I guess when

Ciarin wrote:
So I guess when I said no one worshipS Q in Star Trek, and they don't require it, you felt the need to point out one of the Q needs validation because?
Because gods - even the ones people don't actually believe in nor worship - constantly require validation in some form. This is because they're the inventions of humans and modeled on humans.


 

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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JillSwift wrote:Ciarin

JillSwift wrote:

Ciarin wrote:
And I said it doesn't work that way. There is no "saving from Muspelheim". NO SALVATION REQUIRED. This isn't a christian religion.
You're the one who keeps bringing up salvation and Christianity, not me. Unless you can point out how behavior emulation isn't part of the system... well, you won't be changing my mind.

I don't know if I can point out how behaviour emulation isn't part of the system. I told you it was about a social contract and you don't believe me. The best I can recommend is to read the sagas yourself and figure it out.

Quote:

Please, no appeals to authority. I know you know more about Asatru than I do, but "'Cuz I said so!" isn't enough.

Well, if you don't believe what I say then you're going to have to ask someone who's word you will take for it. Or research it yourself.

Quote:

Who decided what's good and what's bad? Isn't that what the Sagas outline, good and bad behavior amongst the gods et al?

I'm guessing society decides what's good and bad. The gods don't particularly care where we go after we die, aside from two of them building up their ragnorak army.

Quote:

Ciarin wrote:
The ancient germanic peoples didn't really believe in an afterlife.
Yeah, except for all that activity after life...

The Valhalla/Ragnorak thing wasn't widely believe back then.

Quote:

Ciarin wrote:
The emulation of behaviour has to do with the tradition of a social contract.
I just said that.

Then I guess you're agreeing with me in a very weird and contradictory way.

 


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JillSwift wrote:Ciarin

JillSwift wrote:

Ciarin wrote:
So I guess when I said no one worshipS Q in Star Trek, and they don't require it, you felt the need to point out one of the Q needs validation because?
Because gods - even the ones people don't actually believe in nor worship - constantly require validation in some form. This is because they're the inventions of humans and modeled on humans.

 

 

 

Q wasn't invented by humans.